np: UU Stage 10 - Suspect Test Round 1 - Let it Snow

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Specially defensive Escavalier seems to be an excellent pokemon to use at the moment, since it can set up on hail(*cough* Stallrein *cough*

I expect fire-types to increase in usage now, with the sudden boost to most ice types.

I'm just wondering, but has anyone tried out Regice?
 

ElectivireRocks

Banned deucer.
Specially defensive Escavalier seems to be an excellent pokemon to use at the moment, since it can set up on hail(*cough* Stallrein *cough*
If Stallrein has a sub up Escavalier is just getting roared out.
It also has trouble against bulky Nidoqueen, especially if she has Fire Blast.
 

Pocket

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I agree with kokoloko that people aren't giving enough cred to Snover. If you give it the SpA investment, it can actually hurt stuff with Blizzard. Hail's residual damage allows Snover to clinch 2HKOs on Water-types with Giga Drain (or OHKO for Swampert's case).

That said, it's still a shitty mon, though - a Pokemon that is weak to Fighting and Fire-types are always a liability in UU. I've seen some people try slapping on Snover on a standard UU team and possibly replacing Ice Beams for Blizzards, but honestly, Snover is not worth this minor opportunity cost.

If you're using Snover, you really want to make use of strong STAB Blizzard spammers. As Ace Emerald has stated, Rotom-F, especially LO SubSplit is GODLY with Hail support - the auxillary STAB Thunderbolt helps a ton in removing Water-types and making the most use out of STAB Blizzard. I've tried SubPlot Jynx, but to lesser success. LK is just a shitty move, and Jynx dies to a light breeze x.x

Hail teams are rather analagous to Sun teams in OU - it's quite frigid in terms of team structure. You want to pretty much have 2 Fire checks and 2 Fighting checks; then you have Snover and your BlizzSpammer :0
 
Maybe I might have to try a hail team myself.

However, a little surprised about some pokemon not being mentioned for hail teams, either stall or offensive, so a bit of theorymonning I guess. Any particular reason these pokemon have not yet got a mention for a hail team build?

-Qwilfish: Specifically the UU spiker build. Intimidate and typing means it should act as a great check to a fair portion of the fighting/fire pokes who threaten hail, while being able to be even more of a pain with pain split due to further residual damage from hail, as well as paralyze and spike.
-Snorlax: Unless people want chandelure to cause trouble. In particular, as long as it has pursuit to make sure the deadly candle goes down and stays down.
-Golurk: Fighting immunity, SR and blocks spinning of (sighs at blastoise usage), rock resist and all the fun of dynamic punch hax.

None more come to mind at present, but something to consider maybe? Or am I just dead wrong? I'm aware victini would still be an issue, as well as BU scrafty if say, you used qwilfish and snorlax as part of your fire/fight checks, but maybe there is a third poke that can deal with victini and scrafty? That way you could have snover, a 3 mon defensive core and 2 hail abusers.
 

Pocket

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Snorlax and Qwilfish definitely make a good combo check against Physical and Special Fire-types. Qwilfish is also a solid check to most Fighting-types, too :d I'll certainly try out them out; thanks for that!

Golurk is competing a spot with Chandelure, so it probably wont fit in a Hail team - Chandelure is just that much more effective at spin-blocking. I'd use Cofagrigus, Rotom, or maybe even Sableye before Golurk.

I'mma post a team that Psych071c and I worked together last night - I would be grateful for any suggestions:

http://pastebin.com/WRScQZPQ

Qwilfish & Lax doesn't seem to fit in this team :/

EDIT: OK I find Qwilfish hard to add, b/c it pretty much competes with Blastoise's slot, which is mandatory. Actually I can see Golurk fitting well in Hail teams now, because it provides Fighting and SR setter in one slot. So we have Golurk - Qwilfish - Blastoise - Snover - Blizz Spammer. The last slot can be Chandelure for better spinblocking or Snorlax for more special coverage. mmmm...! Specially-defensive Rotom-H can work, too, if your Blizz Spammer isn't Rotom-F, b/c the team seems weak to Ground-types atm.
 

cim

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Pocket, I really think if your team has only one Pokemon taking advantage of hail, it's really not worth running. Qwilfish is great and checks Heracross, but the problem is that it's competing with Froslass, which is faster, immune to Hail, and has STAB Blizzard to spam all while spinblocking, giving you more room for other Pokemon.
 

Pocket

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Idk how you are fitting more than 2 Ice-types (Snover + Blizzspammer) without having exploitable weakness to major threats. Hail teams just doesn't have much leeway in terms of team slots, so you have to pick the most economical choices.

Qwiflish is one of those economical choices. An awesome physical resists for Fighting, Fire, and Bug-types. I've been using complete legitimacy's double Spikes Qwilfish, setting up both Spikes & Toxic Spikes for major residual damage. Golurk is a better choice than Froslass in this case, cuz it provides me a Fighting resist, spinblocker, and SR setter all in one!

Blizzspamming is not the only way to take advantage of Hail. It really benefits defensive playstyle, accumulating the chip damages quicker than anything. If you have a stall team that can outlast the opponent, then Hail would really do work for your team. Add in a Blizzspammer and most teams are wrecked.

PS: That said, it would be interesting to make a team overloading on BlizzSpammers (Type Coverage IDGF)
 

ElectivireRocks

Banned deucer.
Any self-respecting hail team should not have any less than 3 ice types. Otherwise that's not a hail team, it's just a poorly designed team with Snover thrown in. It would be like running a "Trick Room" team with one dedicated TR user, one slow sweeper and 4 fast sweepers.
Having more ice types is not a burden in a well constructed hail team - it woulde be if UU had other permanent weather summoners, but there aren't any right now, so you might as well take full advantage of Snow Warning.

I'm pretty sure that the most successful hail teams that have peaked high on the ladder even had 4 or 5 ice types to make the most use of Blizzspamming and hailstalling.
Incidentally mono-ice teams on PO are pretty successful (despite their weaknesses) thanks to many teams not having reliable ways of getting rid of Snow Warning.
The only time I lose with mono-ice teams is against mono-fighting and their damn Terrakion. But there's no Terrakion in UU so that's not a problem.

The weaknesses to hazards and fire/fighting/steel/rock are very easily covered with several combinations of two excellent UU pokemon (Nidoqueen, Chandelure, Hitmontop and so on).
 

Ace Emerald

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Any self-respecting hail team should not have any less than 3 ice types. Otherwise that's not a hail team, it's just a poorly designed team with Snover thrown in. It would be like running a "Trick Room" team with one dedicated TR user, one slow sweeper and 4 fast sweepers.
Having more ice types is not a burden in a well constructed hail team - it woulde be if UU had other permanent weather summoners, but there aren't any right now, so you might as well take full advantage of Snow Warning.

I'm pretty sure that the most successful hail teams that have peaked high on the ladder even had 4 or 5 ice types to make the most use of Blizzspamming and hailstalling.
Incidentally mono-ice teams on PO are pretty successful (despite their weaknesses) thanks to many teams not having reliable ways of getting rid of Snow Warning.
The only time I lose with mono-ice teams is against mono-fighting and their damn Terrakion. But there's no Terrakion in UU so that's not a problem.

The weaknesses to hazards and fire/fighting/steel/rock are very easily covered with several combinations of two excellent UU pokemon (Nidoqueen, Chandelure, Hitmontop and so on).
I disagree with your analogy. First off, having a Trick Room team is difficult with only one user, while having a Hail team is now incredibly easy to use with only one user. Second and probably most importantly, running many non-Ice Pokemon on a hail team is necessary and beneficial to the team, while running many fast Pokemon on a Trick Room team is 100% counter productive. I think you are underestimating two things: 1) how the ubiquitous Fire and Fighting types threaten Ice heavy teams, and 2) how much non Ice Pokemon can gain from Hail.

If there is one trait that the Fire and Fighting Pokemon in UU have, it's the ability to break through counters. Say you're using 4 Ice types, Nidoqueen, and Snorlax. Or maybe 5 Ice types and Snorlax because you have Froslass to counter Fighting. The latter team will be ruined by Heracross the moment he Stone Edges Froslass, and the former runs a great risk of having Nidoqueen worn down by mispredcited Earthquakes, Close Combats that still shave off about 1/3 her health, and the fact that even with Lefties she can never gain health back. Specs Chandelure can rain on your parade with HP Fighting, which 2HKOs all Snorlax but the RestTalk mono-attacker with SR on the field. Darmanitan may be worn down quickly in Hail, but this team lacks even a check so something is probably going to die. The point I'm trying to make is 2, even 3 non Ice Pokemon cannot adequately check Ice's weaknesses (and if you only have 3 Ice types, remember you only have 2 Blizzspammer).

The strength of my Hail team (which by the way, has only 1 Blizzspammer, and manages to still climb the ladder) is the passive damage. Defensive Pokemon don't get Leftovers, offensive Pokemon crumble quickly. I throw up just one layer of Toxic spikes and SR and it becomes possible to quickly weaken walls to the point I can easily push through them with offensive powerhouses. Bulky waters no longer stand a chance against ScarfCross, and weaken Nidoqueen and Quilfish with EQ a few times (not even mentioning team support), because they don't regenerate health I can eventually break through. While Hail effects me as well, I am prepared for it's effect, and actively trying to abuse it with my team structure while lowering it's negative impact on my team. It's akin to a Gravity team: it effects both sides equally, but one is prepared for the effect. I have Blizzard as coverage on many of my non Hail mons, and my 1 Blizzspammer is one hell of a sweeper. I have a spinner to keep hazards off (as well as a Poison for Toxic Spikes) so my team isn't worn down as quickly. My walls aren't designed to last forever (I know Hail cripples them), they are designed to last until I can pull off a sweep. While I'm still working on it, my team is far from poorly designed, and even though I only have 2 Ice types, it fully abuses Hail.
 

Pocket

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Yep, Ace Emerald nailed it. Trying to pack 2 Ice-types is a difficult task to begin with, let alone 3. There aren't that many good Ice-types to choose from, especially with Abomasnow and Kyurem out of the tier. I just tested a BlizzSpam team and it performed the worst out of all my Hail teams. Blizzspammers are just simply too redundant - all of them are not fast enough to sweep, and powerful Blizzard users are frail as fuck.

That said I managed to make it work, but it's hardly with the help of Blizzspamming. Froslass for instance spends most of the time setting up Spikes than using Blizzard. Walrien is Toxic-stalling more than Blizzard-spamming. Like Ace Emerald has so clearly pointed out, it's the ability to accumulate residual damage that truly makes Hail teams so potent. Perfectly accurate Blizzard is just an icing on the cake.
 
I have to fervently disagree with the opinion that more ice types = bad hail team. 3 Ice types is perfectly viable in UU.

Simply put, both Hail Stall and Hail Offense work a lot better with the ice types, both because of the recovery and the STAB Blizzard. Hail Stall can run (I'll post an RMT up sometime) Walrein, Froslass, and Snover without any significant single weakness (though Fire is a problem, but Blastoise alleviates that problem somewhat). Offense can go Rotom-F, Glaceon, and Snover, which is significantly less synergistically solid, but so are Triple-Fire and Double-Dragon strategies, neither of which are allowed to have a 120BP STAB 100% accuracy move without drawbacks (Outrage, Flare Blitz, anyone?). It's true that Ice is a horrible typing to begin with, but that's only defensively.

The presence of hail also allows the use of some very unique combinations for Ice-types, such as Stallrein (duh) but also unique stuff such as Ice Body Choice Specs/Life Orb Glaceon, which loses only 4% through LO recoils or can effectively run both Lefties and Specs simultaneously (though Specs is always better, imo). Hail also neutralizes recovery on opposing Pokemon and allows for closer 2hkos and 3hkos.

Overloading on Blizzspammers is an underrated idea, but let's throw in some calculations:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blastoise: 42.54 - 50.27%
2hko in Hail + Any form of Entry Hazard

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 35.39 - 41.58%
SOLID 3hko against Suicune, becomes a handy 2hko after a couple layers of spikes, which come courtesy of Froslass

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 49.49 - 58.12%
Premier UU Special Wall, taken down in 2 hits without any sort of hazards.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 55.34 - 65.24%
One of the bulkiest Pokemon in UU, and Glaceon outspeeds.

and I think that's the strongest spammer, though Rotom-F has more options as LO Subsplit or Choice Scarf. It fails to 2hko Umbreon, but anything that gets hit neutrally will be dead after another Blizzard, generally speaking.

It's true that there are Pokemon that ruin hail, such as Heracross, but it should be possible to dance around them especially when hazards are up.

One more caveat, which is amazing for hail stall:
For grounded Pokemon (even SR resist) with 3 layers of Spikes, 1 layer of TSpikes and SR, minimum entry damage is 6.25%(resists SR)+25%(Spikes)+6.25%(Hail)+12.5%(Poison) which is literally 50% of health per switch in. Neutral to SR takes more, obviously, and Steel types are the exception to poison. Stuff like Roserade and Nidoqueen can absorb TSpikes but both are obviously weak to Blizzard, meaning that not even the gutsiest player will feel comfortable bringing either Pokemon in. Flying types don't take Spikes but are equally vulnerable to Blizzard.
 

Pocket

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It's no denying that Blizz Spam is powerful (almost the equivalent to Dragon spam), but it's just simply not good enough in UU:

Specs Glaceon's Blizzard

vs 208 HP / 176+ Snorlax: 22-26% - need full set of hazards for Blizzard to even 3HKO
vs max HP / max+ SpD Empoleon: 15-18% - lol
vs max HP / max+ SpD Bronzong: 31-36% - ok, this actually does a surprising amount of damage.

What DOES make Hail playstyle good is that it's so easy to rack up damage with entry hazards and powerful moves (not just Blizzard). Obviously Special Ice-types gains the most from this deal, being immune to Hail and pumping out powerful Blizzard. Stacking on Ice-types works (my team has four), but it's certainly not the only viable Hail team make-up at all. My other team with only 2 Ice-types (including Snover) is just as effective in making good use of Hail.
 
So I've been running a hail team in UU for a while now and had some intresting moments but generally done pretty well. So now for some rambling;

I used snover with scarf and support as I felt his stats were under whelming, and support is always nice to have really. Hit and run support and then switching it what ever fits the case. Rest of the team was full out offensive, with the expectition of eviolite gligar to keep heracross and few other fighting types to slow down.

I have to say, being able to use blizzard instead of icebeam on pokemons that usualy use ice beam has been rather blessing. Honorable mention to sharpedo for being able to KO certain grass types that otherwise would run his day and keep chandelure away.

Other members of the team; Empleon, Nidoking and Froslass as the main spammer

However.. The hail has its own two blades
The residentual damage on your own pokemons can get really, really weary. I originally packed life orb on sharpedo, but changed it to left overs just cause the overal damage killed him way too fast to make him useful. Nidoking and gligar also hate it.
As a final nail, snover. I'm sorry but, I placed him on support, cause thats where he is most useful as any other way he is just.. Useless. Normal support? Can't take a hit (even with eviolite), Can't be fast enough. Attacking? hahaha nope, funny. And still feels like a waste of slot.

Generally the extra damage is very lovely and the stall possibilities can work, but in a way, the negatives and positives are in the line of so so
I don't really feel too much difference with offensive build as if I were playing offense normally, well apart from the sharpedo blizzard.

Whenever perma hail snover stays in UU or not, I honestly don't see a why not. The negatives and positives seem to be pretty balanced.
 
It's no denying that Blizz Spam is powerful (almost the equivalent to Dragon spam), but it's just simply not good enough in UU:

Specs Glaceon's Blizzard

vs 208 HP / 176+ Snorlax: 22-26% - need full set of hazards for Blizzard to even 3HKO
vs max HP / max+ SpD Empoleon: 15-18% - lol
vs max HP / max+ SpD Bronzong: 31-36% - ok, this actually does a surprising amount of damage.

What DOES make Hail playstyle good is that it's so easy to rack up damage with entry hazards and powerful moves (not just Blizzard). Obviously Special Ice-types gains the most from this deal, being immune to Hail and pumping out powerful Blizzard. Stacking on Ice-types works (my team has four), but it's certainly not the only viable Hail team make-up at all. My other team with only 2 Ice-types (including Snover) is just as effective in making good use of Hail.
Lol, I did deliberately neglect Empoleon and Snorlax from the calcs because neither of them care about neutral/resisted STAB Special Attacks anyway, so why bother?

Well Empoleon being a quad resist and all isn't really fair to calcs. It CAN 2hko easily with HP Ground/Electric depending on whatever floats your boat. It DOES wreck Bronzong, but yeah, Thick Fat gives Snorlax, with ridiculous SpDef already, a resistance... still quite powerful. Chandy can't do TOO much more with Fire Blast, if it's any consolation.

I do agree that entry hazards and residual damage are part of Hail's charm, but I'd argue that Blizzard is THE powerhouse move of choice in hail and that anything else is not only merely supplementary, but honestly gains no benefit. I realize that hail doesn't necessarily require multiple hail abusers, but entry hazards and lack of Lefties recovery tends to get annoying in late-game with non-ice Pokemon because they die so much easier...

When I win a game with my stall team, any Pokemon not ice type or called Snover are generally by far the healthiest on the field, anyway. I'd argue that the more hail abusers you get, the stronger the team will be in taking advantage of hail. You can play the best 2-Ice Hail team in the world, but the calcs, neglecting type synergies, will indicate, at the end of the day, that more Ice = Better Hail.
 

ElectivireRocks

Banned deucer.
Just saying, but Snorlax is in a lose/lose situation against hail teams.
As it's been said, hail has wonderful synergy with Toxic Spikes in UU because the three main TS absorbers (Roserade, Nidoqueen and Nidoking) all fall to Blizzard and all the three main rapid spinners (Claydol, Blastoise and Hitmontop) don't do well against the premier hail spinblocker (Froslass).
Therefore, if Snorlax runs Thick fat it's vulnerable to Toxic Spikes and if it runs Immunity it's vulnerable to Blizzspam.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
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Just saying, but Snorlax is in a lose/lose situation against hail teams.
As it's been said, hail has wonderful synergy with Toxic Spikes in UU because the three main TS absorbers (Roserade, Nidoqueen and Nidoking) all fall to Blizzard and all the three main rapid spinners (Claydol, Blastoise and Hitmontop) don't do well against the premier hail spinblocker (Froslass).
Therefore, if Snorlax runs Thick fat it's vulnerable to Toxic Spikes and if it runs Immunity it's vulnerable to Blizzspam.
To be perfectly honest, does Snorlax really need to stay in for that long? It's either running Rest, in which case Toxic isn't a huge concern, or it's an all out attacking set that hits a few times and switches. It's not really a "lose lose situation" for Snorlax - it's very hard for Hail to get around it unless you've got Jynx or something.
 

kokoloko

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Okay so I've laddered quite a bit lately because I've finally had some free time (which will probably end on Thursday :(), and I haven't ran into too much hail, and the few times I have, its been against really bad opponents. Its going to be really difficult to gauge how broken it is this way, since no one good is using it seriously... although I guess that alone carries some weight.

Anyway, the main reason I've been laddering is actually not because I wanted to see how broken hail was, but rather so I could more easily determine a ladder requisite for this. I would suggest trying to get those deviations (that's the number after the ±, for those who don't know) as low as possible. I'll announce exact requirements (ladder and the other stuff) in less than a week when I open the Mew suspect thread.
 
We're suspecting Mew again?

Aw, I was just getting used to having a CS Transformer to beat the crap out of setup!
I honestly haven't really seen too much of it this round, except when I'm using it. It's... good, but there are better options in the meta.

I'd say the reason there's so much bad hail in UU is Snover. It's underrated and most people won't bother
a. Building a team around hail to compensate
and
b. Risking going 5-6 at the beginning, all for permaweather, and there's still stuff like RD Kingdra. Still, that's what teammates are for, right?
A lot of people who do well on the ladder do it with classic weatherless, and I think it's being considered a gimmick by the majority of top-tier players. I've only managed to ladder to 1500 with a Hail Alt (best Alt stood at 1700 before ladder reset) and it's kind of underwhelming if played improperly, such as when people do anything in their power to swap in Walrein and get KO'd by a SE move, such as swapping INTO a HP Ice on Raikou and not swapping out immediately, even when said Raikou is packing Leftovers. People have to start realizing that PPStalling with Sub+Protect needs Tspikes at least.
*sigh*

Kokoloko, since the "New UU Senate" post is closed, can I ask a few questions?
1. Does the Pokemon Showdown chat count as IRC or do I actually need to download an IRC client and get onto the official channel?
2. What's the approximate level (ranking) at which you're currently considering for a vote?
3. Why is it only 4 additional people?

In my humble and personal opinion, doing something like the Chinese government structure, with the current senate serving as the permanent Politburo Standing Committee and a larger host (say, 15 members or so) of impermanent members serving as the Politburo with lower-value (1/2 or 1/3) votes, would do wonders if you guys want to keep your current roles and also include more people into decision making.
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
Mew is powerful, but I haven't really seen it do anything broken. Taunt-Wisp is probably its best set, but it's vulnerable to status and not very easy to splash. It tends to slow teams down, which isn't always a good idea in a fast meta. Its Nasty Plot set is good too, but I personally think Azelf is just as good, as the extra speed and special attack often come in handy when you need to revenge/OHKO things.
 

pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
yeah im wrecking all these people on the ladder with hail stall right now under french fries, generally in the top 3 on the ladder, it is so easy to create win conditions with Walrien against mediocre players...although I feel like good players just trounce me by aiming on Hail's natural weaknesses (fire, fighting, rock) and not letting Walrein set up.

You dont need to download stuff to use smogon irc, go to mibbit.com and near the bottom is a "chat now" link, click it and connect to synirc with the channel #genvuu you dont need a mibbit account.

Everytime I use SD Mew my opp has a Sableye what is this shit?!!!?! (which is only 3 times but still)

I agree with Chimera China's government is the greatest and serves as a role model for the future of all western states.
 
It's easy to get win situations with Stallrein.
Here's a few of examples:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uususpecttest4106901
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uususpecttest4281746
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uususpecttest4323337

All of which show hazard setup + spinner kill + Stallrein troll. You'll notice that I do 47% damage to Shaymin at one point simply because I Roared out some other poor sod. SR+Spikes+Hail+1 round of regular poison.
*shrugs*

Thanks, hilarious, I'll probably go onto IRC sometime.

Uh, the Chinese government suggestion seemed apt because you guys seem hell-bent on keeping a permanent senate (which I think is a good thing, personally) and the system is really quite nice without the corruption (lol, no corruption in Pokemon). I'm quite serious about UU adopting it, though, as it seems to be a bit more efficient than just rotating in four extra full-value senator slots.
 

pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
honestly those first two battles are hardly legit (come on man lo steelix? ice shard froslass?) and your execution against your opponents in the second and third battle you need to work on, snover shouldn't be protecting against a Froslass at best you waste one taunt pp and (and most likely) your opp gets a free spike. in fact snover shouldn't even be a response to Froslass and if your opponent was sane Froslass would have killed off your Nidoqueen (you get no hazards).

Strangely we use the same hail team except altaria>>>raikou for me. You might want to use Toxic Froslass over twave although you aren't as weak to Blastoise as I am. I have trouble with Froslass, i feel you man! but Snover is not a response to Froslass unless you run CB or at least Giga Drain.
 

Pocket

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Yea Walrein is a GODLY tank / staller under Hail! With Walrein it's not surprising to sweep half or more of the opposing team :d. I personally prefer Toxic over Roar, because I'd rather not be so reliant on hazards, because there are times where keeping them up would be difficult. Roar is much superior when it comes to racking damage against Snorlax, though.

Chimera, Idk why the team struggled initially against opponent's Slowbro in game 3. With EV investment in SpA, Snover can easily 2HKO Slowbro with Giga Drain :0. SpA investment is worth it, since Snorver isn't really surviving hits anyways. Mine as well give it a little bit of a bite so it can deal some significant damage before biting dust. I'm even entertaining the thought of fitting Ice Shard to shave off a good 50% of Flygon's health before it U-turns :d.
 
honestly those first two battles are hardly legit (come on man lo steelix? ice shard froslass?) and your execution against your opponents in the second and third battle you need to work on, snover shouldn't be protecting against a Froslass at best you waste one taunt pp and (and most likely) your opp gets a free spike. in fact snover shouldn't even be a response to Froslass and if your opponent was sane Froslass would have killed off your Nidoqueen (you get no hazards).

Strangely we use the same hail team except altaria>>>raikou for me. You might want to use Toxic Froslass over twave although you aren't as weak to Blastoise as I am. I have trouble with Froslass, i feel you man! but Snover is not a response to Froslass unless you run CB or at least Giga Drain.
Got some better battles, but not in replay format because I dc'd sometime before I hit the Save Replay button. I could post it as .rtf format, but yeah.

I realize that I'm pretty bad with Stall; this is my first stall team and I still don't know quite how to battle without momentum. First battle was solid playing against crap opponent, so no surprises there. On the second battle I was still testing out the team, and learned some profound lessons from it, such as obviously not leaving Snover into Froslass. Third battle was kind of ridiculous because I had no idea what to do against offensive Slowbro and did stupid shit that shouldn't have happened. I have no excuse. Then again, all three replays were there to demonstrate Stallrein win conditions.

Toxic Froslass is kind of redundant for me because of TSpikes. I like TWave because if nothing else I can use it to set up a Raikou sweep or whatever's in fashion for the day.

Huh, nice coincidence with the similar teams. We must think alike, eh? If nothing else it means that my teambuilding's not that bad. What does Altaria do for the team? I generally run Raikou OR Mienshao depending on what I feel I'm weak to, but I've never considered Altaria.

On a side note, I think I will replace Blizzard on Snover for Giga Drain, because Blizzard just doesn't hit stuff very hard.
 

chimpact

fire nation
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
After testing out my own hail team and failing, I tried out Pocket's hail team on the server and it did pretty well. But against more offensive teams, I really struggled. I couldn't really match their speed. mienshao did a lot of work vs them but it can only be brought in so many times, and hjk missed at inopportune times. And there's really nothing on the team to take scarf EQ's bar Snover (blastoise can only switch in to EQ's so many times under hail), but in combination with rocks it will be worn down.

surprisingly I havent went up against any opposing hail teams, but I'm confident in Mienshao putting in work :].
 
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