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np: UU Stage 13 - Ghosts N Stuff

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by kokoloko, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 25, 2012
    Well, according to koko it would last until the 6th, so sunday. But considering he'd written August first, and also that he smells, he could've tried to put the deadline on friday.

    EDIT: Yea, I just asked him and he said sunday.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  2. ShootingStarmie

    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 3, 2011
    Right, since we're near the end of the suspect test, I'm going to share my thoughts about Victini. During my laddering to reach requirements, I ran a stall team, consisting of what I consider 2 checks to Victini (defensive Arcanine, and Blastoise). Now, I did not chose to use these Pokemon because they are the best Victini checks, I used them because they supported my team. I think it's safe to say, I didn't have much much trouble when I faced Victini. I dunno if it's because of the lack of good players using it, but I was far more concerned when I faced Raikou or Togekiss (I wouldn't consider these Pokemon broken either, but that's beside the point). Now this is only my view from a defensive stand point, but I really don't think Victini troubles offensive teams enough to be banned either. After it's KOed something with Victini, it's easily revenge killed and huge Pursuit bait. Victini also requires a lot of prediction to use, as predicting wrong with Victini loses you a ton of momentum, and the fact that it's SR weak means it will get worn down pretty easily. Yes the Luretini can beat most of it's counters, but once the surprise factor has gone, it's much less effective than the standard banded set, and requires perfect timing to be effective.

    All in all, I just don't think Victini is overwhelming enough to be banned to BL. It's a great Pokemon, sure, but it has solid checks, and has exploitable weaknesses. Victini should stay UU.
    Grey Knight and Godsend like this.
  3. Fat Lenny

    Fat Lenny

    Jun 23, 2012
    I ran a hyper offensive team in the uucurrent ladder with a banded Victini to wear down sub-CM Raikou's counters, such as Rhyperior, Snorlax, Swampert and Bronzong. Victini wasn’t given any team support like magic bounce or rapid spinning. He was there to simply open holes in Raikou's counters (3HKO’ing Rhyperior, Swampert and Snorlax ) and develop momentum with u-turn. The threat of a banded v-create is very powerful and makes Victini an influential tool when trying to coax Raikou's counters out of my opponent's hand. This team was very successful on the uucurrent ladder with a 35-3 record.

    While banded Victini hits like a truck and wears down Raikou’s counters, his signature move “v-created” problematic issues for Victini and the rest of my team. After Victini uses V-create, he is very easily revenge-killed and allows some very threatening pokemon to set-up. As a supporting attacker, Victini is very useful, but requires significant hazard control and bulky teammates to switch in on the pokemon who mean to exploit V-create’s stat drop. While the banded set is far more consistent than the LO special set and always hits something hard, banded Victini requires prediction to keep him alive past the early-game and not screw your team over with a Kingdra/Chandelure/ CM-Suicune sweep.

    Victini can open holes in teams with banded V-Create, but requires major team support and smart plays to be successful. I believe that Victini’s advantages and weaknesses make him a very balanced pokemon and that he deserves to stay UU.
  4. kokoloko

    kokoloko what matters is our plan!
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Aug 21, 2009
    Victini wasn't banned and I know no one's gonna wanna do another suspect test now that XY is here (and I sure as fuck don't wanna conduct one!!) so we're done with BW UU tiering.

    See you in XY, gents.
    Magcargo, Fat Lenny, SJCrew and 3 others like this.
  5. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest It's Showtime! Are you ready?
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 5, 2012
    Kay, just feel like opening up some discussion here, and the current topic I'll bring up is pretty fitting for this month, but anyways.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    With UU literally running amok with Fighting-types such as Heracross and Mienshao, it's no wonder Ghost-types are quite effective in the current metagame. They have a nifty Fighting-type immunity, with the extra bonus of being able to spinblock, which is always neat. In addition, Ghost STAB has pretty decent neutral coverage in UU, and many of the offensively oriented ones have great coverage options to back that up anyways. Chandelure is probably the best Ghost-type in the tier atm, and basically is the front cover for raw power in UU; amazing Special Attack and ridiculous STABs make it a thread to contend with atm, with few counters and threatens everything. Cofagrigus is quite useful, TR+NP is a strong set atm that can perform many roles for a team; it's also the best Fighting-type counter imo. Mismagius and Dusclops unfortunately aren't too great in this meta, but have a few redeeming qualities, as Mismagius is rather fast and has NP to be a reasonably decent sweeper, and Dusclops has a lot of bulk and can Curse stall on heavy stall. Sableye has always been a pain in the ass, priority Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, and Recover make it a great stallbreaker and annoyer, and Golurk has a good niche as a tank that checks a lot and can hit hard. So how do you think Ghost-types as a whole fare in UU atm? What is your favorite one to use? and which one do you dislike facing the most?
  6. noknuckles


    Mar 21, 2013
    I like Cofagrigus the best. It's the best spinblocker in UU. Hitmontop and Blastoise without Foresight have a tough time spinning against this thing, and Foresight gives it one free setup turn (Foresight on the switch, Rapid Spin on the turn it sets up). The best Blastoise can do is Foresight+Spin+Roar, which means it's taking either 2 Shadow Balls or NP+Shadow Ball without doing any damage in return. Hitmontop just sits there and stares at Cofag as it sets up. The best it can do is Toxic, then Sucker Punch for the juicy ~30% damage. Cofagrigus is the most valuable partner to any spiker.

    Chandelure is amazingly strong, but is a pretty bad spin blocker. It doesn't like switching in repeatedly to block spins, and it also can't safely switch into Blastoise/Hitmontop. It's probably a better ghost than Cofag overall, but a far worse spin blocker. It fears Stealth Rocks, Scald, Stone Edge and even Sucker Punch. Cofag doesn't fear any of that (but fears Specs Water Spout...) and can comfortably and brainlessly switch in every time Hitmontop/Blastoise hit the field (unless the Blastoise is spamming Water Spout).

    I've never tried Golurk in UU, but it seems pretty good. Immunity to Volt Switch and resistance to Heracross makes it automatically useful in most matches.
  7. GULLY


    Jul 8, 2013
    Golurk has an extremly good niche in uu. The ability to set up rocks and counter most fighting types is only comparable to nidoqueen, which has its own drawbacks. I use the No Guard set with D-Punch and it becomes a defensive threat as well as a moderate offensive one. Also I suggest trying out Flame Orb Chandy. It is perfect as a support sweeper. Just trick things like Umby or Lax, get some damage off, and wha lah you have a big hole for your special sweeper of choice to come in and clean up.
    (Dusclops has little to no viablity, its a thorn in my side but thorns can be removed)
    Kingler12345 and Godsend like this.
  8. Megapants


    Jul 3, 2009
    I've been using sableye on hail stall with good results. sub/wow/taunt/recover just goes infinite on pretty much anything that can't break through recover. it works as a check to a ton of set-ups as well with taunt preventing boosts and subsitutes, letting you switch in a better check. there's also a good chance of taking on other taunt pranksters like another sableye or tornadus if you are good at rock, paper, scissors.

    however, i've been struggling with umbreon and snorlax so i think running either a cleric of your own or a good bait + STAB fighting combo to try to combat those guys. its harder for me to play it out vs snorlax, particularly resttalk with whirlwind because you don't have a way to rub salt into the wound, he just swats you away. other not so great matchup is against pressure like zapdos and eviolite dusclops - in my experience, your stall game is really reliant on good PP usage getting drained of it is not what you want.
  9. GULLY


    Jul 8, 2013
    please leave =)
    but Sub SD Cobalion consistently shits on things like Umbreon and Snorlax, it could actually work on hail stall

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