RP Tyrantrum and Hera make fantastic partners. Im actually running a similar team but with an interesting hera set
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np: UU Stage 2.1 - You Are Invited
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Does improvise mean fucking something up with a banded Head Smash? Because that's how I deal with Taunt Bat n_n
Edit: If he went to Mega Aero initially, that game would've been very different.
I really really like RH Tyrantrum, but my issue with it is that, from my perspective at least, I'm "forced" to run RP because it's slow as fuck at +1, "forced" to run Jolly because it misses out on the ever present Scarf Shao (and Scarf Ape to a lesser extent) without it, and "forced" to run Lum on it because otherwise I miss out on setting up on fucking Entei, when I doubly resist its STAB (also on Mega Pidgeot, although that does like half), and also on 2HKOing anything that can take a hit and status it, but can't OHKO otherwise. Lum allows you to run Outrage I guess, but without boosting your attack you're not doing as much damage as you'd think when you see a mon with 150/120 STAB moves. The other option would be run Dual Dance I guess, but even against offense you're possibly not getting the KOs you'd want at +0, and it's very hard to get 2 setup turn with it with that pitiful Special Defense. I dunno, maybe it's just prejudice, but I was a bit sad when I didn't get kills I should've had with SE EQ for example.
I'm inclined to agree. The biggest problem with running Dual Dance, I find, is the fact that two coverage moves simply don't tackle the tier nearly as well as previous generations. For instance, edgequake - the pillar of gen 4 offense - now finds itself underwhelming against the diverse typing and bulky nature of the tier.
As for Dragon Dance, it really really really really sucks that Tyrantrum has the worst speed ever.
I personally love Tyrantrum (I am actually making a team with it atm) but it seems so pitiful as even with great resists in Fire and Flying, still taking roughly 50% from Mega Pidgeot's Hurricane means it cannot set up on it if weakened.
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 141-167 (46 - 54.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed after rocks)
This means it cannot switch into Mega Pidgeot and force it out when Mega Pidgeot, a Flying-type, should be scared of a STAB recoil-less Head Smash. The only thing it can switch into are physical mons, but even then it has to worry about the opponent predicting it coming and bopping it with a SE move or gaining momentum via U-turn or Volt Switch.
The other problem I have is it has to rely on a great 150 BP STAB move that only has 80% accuracy and we all know the qualms of using a STAB move that can miss at any crucial moment (I am looking at you High Jump Miss Mienshao <_<). And while it does look like it has amazing bulk, it is so fkin frail on the special side with a base 59 Special Defense stat that a cool breeze can hurt it.
Another problem it has is that it has great resists, but also common weaknesses in Fighting, Ground, and Ice. It also has to compete for a Dragon slot when we have a better DD user in Mence, a better? wallbreaker in LO Hydrei, a powerful and slow momentum grabber in Mega Amph, and a fast Dragon in Mega Scept. The only niche I can see Tyrantrum truly carving for itself is just to completely break stall with a CB set or offense with a RP set. But Dual Dance cannot work in the tier this gen as, like Kink said, the bulky nature and diverse typing of UU mons means they can take what Tyrantrum has to offer if it is only carrying 2 attacking moves.
P.S. If you run the Band set, you have to run Jolly because Adamant max invested only reaches 241 thanks to it sharing the same base Speed as Honchkrow (which is the UU benchmark), which means Tyrantrum loses out on a lot of power if it wants to outspeed all walls and hit them hard.
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 141-167 (46 - 54.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed after rocks)
This means it cannot switch into Mega Pidgeot and force it out when Mega Pidgeot, a Flying-type, should be scared of a STAB recoil-less Head Smash. The only thing it can switch into are physical mons, but even then it has to worry about the opponent predicting it coming and bopping it with a SE move or gaining momentum via U-turn or Volt Switch.
The other problem I have is it has to rely on a great 150 BP STAB move that only has 80% accuracy and we all know the qualms of using a STAB move that can miss at any crucial moment (I am looking at you High Jump Miss Mienshao <_<). And while it does look like it has amazing bulk, it is so fkin frail on the special side with a base 59 Special Defense stat that a cool breeze can hurt it.
Another problem it has is that it has great resists, but also common weaknesses in Fighting, Ground, and Ice. It also has to compete for a Dragon slot when we have a better DD user in Mence, a better? wallbreaker in LO Hydrei, a powerful and slow momentum grabber in Mega Amph, and a fast Dragon in Mega Scept. The only niche I can see Tyrantrum truly carving for itself is just to completely break stall with a CB set or offense with a RP set. But Dual Dance cannot work in the tier this gen as, like Kink said, the bulky nature and diverse typing of UU mons means they can take what Tyrantrum has to offer if it is only carrying 2 attacking moves.
Tyrantrum (ignoring abilities):
Weaknesses: Dragon, Fairy, Fighting, Ground, Ice, Steel
Resistances: Electric, Fire, Flying, Normal, Poison
Immunities: None
Weaknesses: Dragon, Fairy, Fighting, Ground, Ice, Steel
Resistances: Electric, Fire, Flying, Normal, Poison
Immunities: None
P.S. If you run the Band set, you have to run Jolly because Adamant max invested only reaches 241 thanks to it sharing the same base Speed as Honchkrow (which is the UU benchmark), which means Tyrantrum loses out on a lot of power if it wants to outspeed all walls and hit them hard.
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Originally i was leaning towards ban on serp, but after playing with it i'm not so sure. People are saying that if you don't have crobat you lose to it, but its not true at all. In all honesty, i feel like serperior is just another sweeper that is good at what it does but doesn't do it so flawlessly to be considered broken. For example, snorlax can switch in on serp, goodra can beat it, bouffalant can win, obviously crobat, amoonguss, and other special walls can actually take +2 leaf storms and remove serp. I'm not saying serp isn't good, and it is quite good, but i feel it is not broken, and this is after playing every single one of my games with serperior. In very few of my games was serperior the MVP, and in the games it was, my opponent was simply weak to it, which doesn't really prove serperior to be broken. Even if u must sack to serp, its not hard to revenge it with a scarfer like hydreigon, and playing around it isn't as difficult as i thought it would be. Overall, serp is an excellent mon in uu, but it not broken / unhealthy, and might in fact be healthy to keep the metagame balanced instead of leaning towards crocune and stallier teams more. Thus, i am currently leaning no ban.
Are you seriously trying to say Serperior isn't unhealthy? First and foremost, if a pokemon can't be outright countered, only hardchecked/revenge killed by mons that aren't extensively UU viable, it is automatically pretty unhealthy -- *COUGH COUGH* Victini. I'm going to be drawing a lot of analogies towards Victini, so be ready for that. When Victini was in XYUU before it got banned, it was an absolutely absurdly unhealthy pokemon. It only had 2 so to say "counters" in Physdef M-Amph and Defensive Arcanine. Everything else was picked off by Victini's choice of coverage options. What about Rhyperior, Swampert, and Hippowdon? Grass Knot. Granted Physdef Slowbro had enough bulk to eat up Bolt Strikes, but how about Thunder? Serperior, much like Victini, can essentially pick its counters. I'm going to go through your list of counters and essentially debunk them, if possible. Snorlax, while it can switch in on Serp, that means Serp is getting a boost from Leaf Storm, and firing off a 2nd Leaf Storm. Granted, Snorlax can take a neutral and boosted Leaf Storm on top of each other, but it can't kill Serp back. Snorlax is banking on a paralysis with Body Slam to cripple Serperior, which makes it a very shaky counter. Goodra is one of the few mons here I can't debunk with Calcs, so bravo, one counter. Bouffalant, being much like Goodra in this scenario, is a pokemon I used extensively to get my Voting Reqs, and I can safely say, it is a really dissappointing mon outside of being a hardcheck to serp. If a pokemon is coming from the depths of PU to hardcheck a Pokemon in UU, something is wrong. Bouffalant is, sadly, not UU viable enough outside of beating Serperior to be considered reliable in UU, much like Sap Sipper Zebstrika. Crobat can get glared on the switch, crippling it badly for the rest of the match, as everyone has already said, so it only revenges it. Amoonguss beats Serp, yes, but loses a ton of its health as Serp can Leaf Storm as Amoon comes in, then fire off an HP Ice, live a Sludge Bomb, and HP Ice again.
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 39-47 (9 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 198-234 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 176-210 (60.4 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 198-234 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge
recovery
So, Amoonguss is either going to be below 10% or dead after, depending on If the Serp user got amazing rolls. When you say "Other Special walls" I assume you mean the likes of Florges and Blissey. Florges loses if it switches in on a Leaf Storm or after a Leaf Storm has killed something, and Blissey gets beaten not only by Taunt Synthesis Serp, but King UU's Sub/Leaf Storm/Taunt/Giga Drain set iirc.
In conclusion, Serperior gets to pick its counters, and can only be hardchecked by certain, less viable pokemon, and revenged by scarfers/faster mons like Aerodactyl and Crobat. Serperior looks a lot like Victini did before it left UU, as they both have a nuke move (Leaf Storm/VCreate) and can only be countered by 1-2 mons in the tier, if that. Serperior is radically unhealthy, and I'll surely be voting Ban.
FlamingVictini made a few assertions in this post that I'd like to address, since they come up for practically every offensively powerful suspect. How strong you believe a specific suspect is comes very largely from the way you evaluate that strength. Here are where the differences form between "far too powerful" (my view of Serperior) and "just another sweeper" (FlamingVictini's view).
Most offensive Pokemon that are clearly too strong have the ability to come in safely on common Pokemon.
Aside from a few powerhouse outliers like Staraptor, most really strong Pokemon need to have a lot of chances to come in in order to be successful. For a set-up sweeper, you also need to have matchups that are good enough to give you a set-up turn. This is where Serperior really excels. It's Grass typing and the fact that its set-up move is actually a 195 base power Grass attack mean that it comes and sets up very, very easily. UU has a bunch of really good Fire types Pokemon, meaning that practically every team has to have a Water or Rock type, and Entei specifically means that you need one that can deal with Burns. It is almost impossible to build a team that has nothing Serperior can come in and set up on. Complicating the matter, Serperior is fast enough that it is also extremely difficult to build your whole team to be faster, a tactic used by heavily offensive team to avoid weakness to this sort of sweeper. For me, one of the nastiest things about Serperior is that it does not need Life Orb to be successful, nor is it weak to Stealth Rock. This means that I can realistically expect to bring Serperior in 2-3 times over the course of the match, a far cry from other major offensive threats (like DD Salamence).
Most offensive Pokemon that are clearly too strong have the ability to overwhelm conventional defensive methods.
If an offensive Pokemon has a commonly used, useful hard counter, it will almost never be banned even if it excels against nearly everything else (witness the Chandelure/Snorlax relationship in BW UU). To be too strong, an offensive suspect must present a game-breaking threat every time in comes in. This means that we end up debating the value and effectiveness of "checks" to the suspect in the metagame. If a Pokemon has checks that can neutralize an entire set, and it cannot deal with all of these checks with one set, it is not as strong. "Versatility" often comes up in suspect discussion, but if the suspect has a set that checks need to predict around, or if the "checks" are actually limited to revenge killing, it is a much more powerful suspect. For instance, Salamence is a very versatile offensive sweeper in that it has numerous useful offensive sets. However, it has to make difficult decisions regarding whether it wants to cover Florges (Iron Tail), Forretress (Fire Blast) or Empoleon (Earthquake). If you want to avoid being weak to DD Mence, there are clear and easily defined steps you can take without having to compromise the overall viability of your team. Any Serperior with Glare, Leaf Storm and one or more complementary coverage moves can cover every commonly used check, requiring them to predict perfectly what Serperior will do or revenge kill it. Making matters worse, the commonly cited "checks" to Serperior tend to be very important parts of a team's defensive core, meaning that often they will have taken prior damage (Forretress) and will leave your team open to other major threats if they die (Crobat). Serperior's common checks are very soft checks.
Most offensive Pokemon that are clearly too strong encourage players to use otherwise bad Pokemon to handle them.
The most consistently effective Pokemon against Serperior have Sap Sipper. All of them are extremely sub-standard compared to other Pokemon of comparable typing. Even extremely powerful Pokemon can be hard countered by specialized sets run by specialized Pokemon. No one would call Extreme Killer Arceus balanced because it is unable to break physically defensive Quagsire. In fact, the use of highly specialized counters should be counted as evidence that a Pokemon is strained the ability of the metagame to handle it--conventional defensive tactics have failed, so unconventional and "creative" tactics become necessary. The key issue to look at here is whether these counters are too specialized: whether they hold a bonafide niche in the metagame beyond "counter the suspect". Crocune highly encourages the use of Grass and Electric types while Curselax highly encourages the use of Fighting types, however the Pokemon that get used to cover these roles tend to be ones that have the skills to actually impact a whole game (Shaymin, Lucario, etc.). When otherwise useless Pokemon are being seriously considered, the metagame has reached an unhealthy place. When Bouffalant comes up in conversation, in my opinion that speaks volumes.
im gunna have to disagrree with you on this one. First of all serp beats snorlax, lax certainly is not eating a +2 leaf storm after taking a non boosted one and it cant even ohko back. And things like amoongus can be hit with hp fire and after boosts and what not making it a soft check. And If we have to revert to using a bouffalant to beat serp in this tier then that is really saying something. It beats a lot of playstyles and crobat even has some trouble with it if you have rocks support because it its really pressured to defog thus losing momentum and benefiting ur team. The only one i can agree with is goodra but tht is literally one mon. This shit is no way in hell healthy and saying it can be revenged killed isnt too relevant because a lot of threats can be revenge killed. thts just what scarfers do. There is no way in hell this shit is healthy idk what would compel you to think that.
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 88+ SpD Snorlax: 149-177 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 97.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 88+ SpD Snorlax: 298-351 (56.8 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I really would not say lax is a check unless you bring it in safely. it really doesnt switch in and take 2 storms. especially if hazards are up.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 450-530 (135.9 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 230-272 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(2hkod after rocks if tries to switch in on non boosted storm)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Machamp: 292-344 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 175-208 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
shit like k9, champ, mega amph and really any slower resist tht tries to switchin in gets bopped by 2 storms if any slight prior damage is put on them like rocks. Not too mention in a tier filled with fat waters...it gets a a lot of chances to go in. No way this shit is healthy
Adressing the people that responded to my thoughts, bouffalant only popped into my mind because i had seen it used once by a playerwho currently completed getting reqs (alongside crobat and aggron tho, 2 other mons that handle it well, making my serp fairly useless). The only reason i say it is not unhealthy is because in my use of it against standard teams, it just didn't do as well as iexpected, my other mons often putting in more work. In theory, serp is certainly unhealthy and should be banned, but in practice i haven't found it that good, thus i am leaning no ban ever so slightly rn.
Back to Tyrantrum, I'm a firm believer in his best and really only viable sets being Rock Polish and Choice Band. I'm not even gonna try Dragon Dance, it's simply too slow. I genuinely haven't noticed the loss of power since I switched to Jolly.
That being said, being a hard counter to Crobat makes Tyrantrum have a niche in UU, which mitigates Head Smash's lone flaw, which itself is already made up in being so fucking powerful. It's only just slightly weaker than Victini's V-create, if you want to gauge it.
Now onto the bolded part, which is the one I really wanted to address. I fully concede that Tyrantrum just doesn't work as a Dragon Dancer. If it were any faster, base 80 or something, it might work, but 71 is too slow. If, for whatever reason, Rock Head had been released back when Lopunny were still in UU, you'd find that even Jolly +1 was slower than Lopunny. That's enormous. I hope we can move on from that conversation because it's an unnecessary black mark on Tyrantrum that has no practical effect on his viability.
I wholly disagree with the sentiment that Hydreigon is a better wallbreaker than Tyrantrum. As it stands, only physically defensive Ground- and Steel-types can switch into Tyrantrum. There are no Fighting-types that can comfortably take a Dragon Claw or Outrage, and even Head Smash cleanly 2HKOs standard AV Machamp. Mind you, this is with a Jolly Life Orb Tyrantrum. Even as slow as Tyrantrum is, making unboosted Adamant speed a potential liability and therefore Jolly his best and most reoccurring option, Head Smash hits that hard so as to make him unwallable without a very bulky resist to Rock.
A comparison to Mega Ampharos is also misleading, since he has a worse typing with which to pivot as well as much poorer special bulk and a lack of U-turn or Volt Switch (or Parting Shot, just to list every pivot move). The only kind of momentum grabbing Tyrantrum will be doing is scaring the bejeezus out of whatever's looking at it and forcing it out. Meanwhile, Tyrantrum is only fast after a Rock Polish, and he outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame and a large portion of the boosted metagame, and I'm completely bewildered as to why that would make him compete for a spot with Mega Sceptile.
All in all, yeah, Tyrantrum's best and most viable sets are CB (Hone Claws could also be an option, improving Head Smash's accuracy while letting you carry Leftovers or a Life Orb) to break stall and Rock Polish to break offense, but both of those sets are potentially (or in RP's case, actually) so deadly that being one-dimensional on paper doesn't hurt them. Now, this last bit is just for me, but I find it fucking hilarious that Tyrantrum can't make a Double Dance set work but Terrakion was totally broken because of it (despite never once losing a game to Double Dance). Keep it up, you limey bastards.
Nah, I just click Head Smash first. Since I'm not relying on an Attack boost (and seriously, you don't need it with Head Smash), I get KOs anyway and as long as I haven't sacced the rest of my team in order to give Tyrantrum a sweeping opportunity it tends to win games anyway. I'm curious as to how you think switching into Aerodactyl initially would have changed the game. You mean if he had gone into Aerodactyl instead of Crobat on Heracross?
A lot of great points are being made in this post, but I'd like to counteract them with some very real experience in using Tyrantrum. I honestly haven't had an opportunity to test whether or not people stay in against Tyrantrum with Mega Pidgeot. I typically wait until a less threatening Pokemon is in because I'm fully aware of how Hurricane 2HKOs (though I do run a little more HP, but not enough to stay safe from the 2HKO after Rocks), so I just don't know how people react to Tyrantrum.
That being said, being a hard counter to Crobat makes Tyrantrum have a niche in UU, which mitigates Head Smash's lone flaw, which itself is already made up in being so fucking powerful. It's only just slightly weaker than Victini's V-create, if you want to gauge it.
Now onto the bolded part, which is the one I really wanted to address. I fully concede that Tyrantrum just doesn't work as a Dragon Dancer. If it were any faster, base 80 or something, it might work, but 71 is too slow. If, for whatever reason, Rock Head had been released back when Lopunny were still in UU, you'd find that even Jolly +1 was slower than Lopunny. That's enormous. I hope we can move on from that conversation because it's an unnecessary black mark on Tyrantrum that has no practical effect on his viability.
I wholly disagree with the sentiment that Hydreigon is a better wallbreaker than Tyrantrum. As it stands, only physically defensive Ground- and Steel-types can switch into Tyrantrum. There are no Fighting-types that can comfortably take a Dragon Claw or Outrage, and even Head Smash cleanly 2HKOs standard AV Machamp. Mind you, this is with a Jolly Life Orb Tyrantrum. Even as slow as Tyrantrum is, making unboosted Adamant speed a potential liability and therefore Jolly his best and most reoccurring option, Head Smash hits that hard so as to make him unwallable without a very bulky resist to Rock.
A comparison to Mega Ampharos is also misleading, since he has a worse typing with which to pivot as well as much poorer special bulk and a lack of U-turn or Volt Switch (or Parting Shot, just to list every pivot move). The only kind of momentum grabbing Tyrantrum will be doing is scaring the bejeezus out of whatever's looking at it and forcing it out. Meanwhile, Tyrantrum is only fast after a Rock Polish, and he outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame and a large portion of the boosted metagame, and I'm completely bewildered as to why that would make him compete for a spot with Mega Sceptile.
All in all, yeah, Tyrantrum's best and most viable sets are CB (Hone Claws could also be an option, improving Head Smash's accuracy while letting you carry Leftovers or a Life Orb) to break stall and Rock Polish to break offense, but both of those sets are potentially (or in RP's case, actually) so deadly that being one-dimensional on paper doesn't hurt them. Now, this last bit is just for me, but I find it fucking hilarious that Tyrantrum can't make a Double Dance set work but Terrakion was totally broken because of it (despite never once losing a game to Double Dance). Keep it up, you limey bastards.
That was me, and I can safely say that outside of hardchecking Serp, Bouff isn't very good.
Yes, I was thinking that Mega Aero would have prevented you from getting the Rock Polish off in the first place, causing a much different endgame.
To respond to the rest of the post, I'm wholeheartedly supporting Tyrantrum as an amazing stop to Crobat and pretty much no other bird. However, there really aren't many Flying-type moves even in the tier aside from Crobat's Brave Bird and Pidgeot's Hurricane. Moltres has been gaining a bit of Popularity but that's mostly it. I also find that Tyrantrum's best set is its Choice Banded set as almost nothing wants to come in at all. It's ridiculously easy to find wallbreaking partners for Tyrantrum that support it well. Something like Moltres will roast Mega Aggron, arguably the best stop to Tyrantrum as it resists both STABs and takes only minor damage from Earthquake once mega evolved. Pokemon like Toxicroak can set up on the bulky waters that Tyrantrum doesn't want to switch into. In turn, Tyrantrum absolutely mutilates the #1 stop to Toxicroak on many teams, Crobat. There are certainly others but that is the core that I've been messing around with and have had pretty good success with. Overall, I think Tyrantrum is a fantastic addition to the tier and am really excited to play with it some more.
Well Typh and Meg are entirely irrelevant to UU and for gatr sd is its best set and that really appreciates the torrent boosted aqua jets to help clean. Not sure this will effect us at all.
You literally got a more powerful Gyarados without Intimidate/Moxie lol.
Sheer Force gatr doesn't sound very good on paper, it's got pretty much the same things to work with as Kingler. The only relevant things that are boosted are waterfall and ice punch, which has pretty limited coverage. With the abundance of bulky waters in the tier, I doubt it will be sweeping anything anytime soon.
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dont forget crunch :)
Except Kingler doesn't even get Waterfall, Crunch and Ice Punch, nor it does get Dragon Dance or Aqua Jet for that matter. Gatr has a much better movepool.
I have reqs where would I post my proof?
You can't seriously be comparing Gator to fucking Kingler? It has an incredible physical movepool - Waterfall, Ice Punch, Crunch, Low Kick/Superpower - as well as incredible boosting moves in Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, hell if you're crazy enough Double Dance with Agility + SD. It's already viable enough to be B- and I'm not exactly saying it's gonna be an S+ plz ban threat any time soon; but honestly it's looking like a pretty good wallbreaker.
Ok so I finally got reqs finished and want to say no ban. Now before you start the "omfg serp is broken af, what is this guy saying", let me give my reasoning first.
First I just wanted to find the number of UU viable pokemon that can at the minimum take a leaf storm and either outspeed and OHKO or tank another one and OHKO or use something like clear smog a la Amoongus.
Checks: Crobat, mega-Beedril, Goodra, Rotom-heat , mega-Pidgeot, Noivern, Ammongus, Roserade, AV Dragalge ,anything with reasonable special bulk and Av for that matter, Yanmega, anything scarfed and resists grass(like a kyurem or something), entei, fletchinder, moltres, (but these 3 are weak to Stealth Rock so meh), and many more that I probably forgot.
These are all pokemon that can take a leaf storm and I am disregarding the glare on the switch-in and the like.
As you can see, Serperior has numerous checks and counters to it without even having to scrape the barrel for something like Bouffalant. Out of these, goodra and rotom-heat are probably the only ones who counter everything serp has to offer. This is similar to an Entei or Suicune for example. Entei hits everthing hard and bar suicune and vaporeon nothing really likes that sacred fire burn chance as it can turn normal 4 or 3hkos to potential 3 or 2hkos with the burn. Even Entei and Suicune have only a few super counters but many checks which balance it out from being an overpowered nightmare.
Furthermore, I have seen complaints about restricitve teambuilding which should lead to its ban. However, even if you do not want to run a Crobat or a Goodra you can still opt for a grass-resist scarf pokemon to deal with serperior. For example, scarf Hydreigon, Kyurem, and Darmanitan to an extent all can handle Serperior without forcing you into pokemon. Again, this is much like the situation of great pokemon like the Suicunes, Enteis and Salamences of the tier. All need to be handled in some way otherwise you will be losing more games than not. Yet, there are more ways of handling them than just slapping a Heliolisk and Suicune on a team. The fact that many scarf pokemon can defeat it shows that it doesnt restrict teambuilding much more than any other S-rank threat.
Finally, necessity breeds invention. New pokemon niches WILL be discovered for previously forgotten pokemon if Serperior is to stay. For example, when Terrakion was briefly here, people started using Doublade as a hard counter but then realized that it is more than just a Terrakion Counter. When Serperior, Celebi, and Jirachi were out of UU, Heliolisk went from RU dreg to suicune counter to good mon in general. I think that soon more niches will be discovered for mons that initially come as a pure serperior counter but turn out to be UU viable. This will be good for the metagame as it may bring new pokemon to the forefront and straighten the tier in general.
To conclude, Serperior is definetly one of the top UU pokemon but this is a necessity as there will always be S rank and there will always be D rank pokemon in a tier. Just because Serperior is very good and a definite S ranker it doesn't mean that its ban worthy. It simply means that we have one more threat to put on that threatlist.
I know this is an unpopular opinion and I would be happy if someone could statistically refute my ideas.
EDIT: Btw is there an official poll or something to vote or is this post just it?And do I need to show proof of my COIL?
First I just wanted to find the number of UU viable pokemon that can at the minimum take a leaf storm and either outspeed and OHKO or tank another one and OHKO or use something like clear smog a la Amoongus.
Checks: Crobat, mega-Beedril, Goodra, Rotom-heat , mega-Pidgeot, Noivern, Ammongus, Roserade, AV Dragalge ,anything with reasonable special bulk and Av for that matter, Yanmega, anything scarfed and resists grass(like a kyurem or something), entei, fletchinder, moltres, (but these 3 are weak to Stealth Rock so meh), and many more that I probably forgot.
These are all pokemon that can take a leaf storm and I am disregarding the glare on the switch-in and the like.
As you can see, Serperior has numerous checks and counters to it without even having to scrape the barrel for something like Bouffalant. Out of these, goodra and rotom-heat are probably the only ones who counter everything serp has to offer. This is similar to an Entei or Suicune for example. Entei hits everthing hard and bar suicune and vaporeon nothing really likes that sacred fire burn chance as it can turn normal 4 or 3hkos to potential 3 or 2hkos with the burn. Even Entei and Suicune have only a few super counters but many checks which balance it out from being an overpowered nightmare.
Furthermore, I have seen complaints about restricitve teambuilding which should lead to its ban. However, even if you do not want to run a Crobat or a Goodra you can still opt for a grass-resist scarf pokemon to deal with serperior. For example, scarf Hydreigon, Kyurem, and Darmanitan to an extent all can handle Serperior without forcing you into pokemon. Again, this is much like the situation of great pokemon like the Suicunes, Enteis and Salamences of the tier. All need to be handled in some way otherwise you will be losing more games than not. Yet, there are more ways of handling them than just slapping a Heliolisk and Suicune on a team. The fact that many scarf pokemon can defeat it shows that it doesnt restrict teambuilding much more than any other S-rank threat.
Finally, necessity breeds invention. New pokemon niches WILL be discovered for previously forgotten pokemon if Serperior is to stay. For example, when Terrakion was briefly here, people started using Doublade as a hard counter but then realized that it is more than just a Terrakion Counter. When Serperior, Celebi, and Jirachi were out of UU, Heliolisk went from RU dreg to suicune counter to good mon in general. I think that soon more niches will be discovered for mons that initially come as a pure serperior counter but turn out to be UU viable. This will be good for the metagame as it may bring new pokemon to the forefront and straighten the tier in general.
To conclude, Serperior is definetly one of the top UU pokemon but this is a necessity as there will always be S rank and there will always be D rank pokemon in a tier. Just because Serperior is very good and a definite S ranker it doesn't mean that its ban worthy. It simply means that we have one more threat to put on that threatlist.
I know this is an unpopular opinion and I would be happy if someone could statistically refute my ideas.
EDIT: Btw is there an official poll or something to vote or is this post just it?And do I need to show proof of my COIL?
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