np: UU Stage 5 - Every Rose Has Its Thorns

[Mishra]

Kabutops does have the one good thing of a strong attack stat, making certain ghosts hesitant to switch in.

@Tm13: In addition to what SJ said, I just meant the one good thing about Claydol: his bulk and resists are undermined by weaknesses to really common attack types, and lack of recovery.

 

[Razza]

Loads of people are running subcm raikou, what can i use that checks/ beats it?

Also would a kabutops with possible rain support be a good spinner?

 

[D4RR3N]

Loads of people are running subcm raikou, what can i use that checks/ beats it?

Also would a kabutops with possible rain support be a good spinner?

As long as it doesnt get a sub up, Krookodile serves as a pretty good check. Other then that, Swampert can check it as long as it's at a good health as most raikous doesnt carry Hp grass. And yeah, Kabutops could run a set like Waterfall/Aqua Jet/Stone Edge/Rapid Spin in rain.

 

[destinyunknown]

After using different playstyles, i have found sand teams very cheap to use, its damn easy to ladder with it.

By the way, kabutops is already a good spinner without rain (with it is obviously better), as 80 speed is pretty decent for UU standards (well, is not THAT good but is faster than the other spinners)

With claydol as spinner, the best thing is carrying a pursuiter or using some gimmick like Trick+*The item who makes pokemon vulnerable to what they are inmune to and i don't remember how its called*, but yeah claydol sucks for the most part

And snorlax is a good counter to subcmraikou btw.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Aiming Mark

Although before tricking Claydol also loses its immunity to stuff like Thunderbolt...

Rain Kabutops is great as a spinner but the thing is that he uses Attack instead of Special Attack, which makes it rather troublesome to say the least. (burns)

 

[fatty]

doesnt care about burns when it ohkos the most common spin blocks on the switch anyways. 2hkos through burn on sableye too btw.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

SubCM Raikou is great. I find the easiest way to beat it is to use Toxic Spikes if you can eliminate the opponent's Poison types. Other than that, Raikou is one of the best Pokemon around because it's so fucking fast. In the UU tier, there are two Pokemon that can outspeed Raikou, and only one of them has a chance of beating it.

However, Raikou's SubCM set lacks crucial power without and boosts, and Raikou's physical bulk is a bit suspect (not bad but not great). The problem with Raikou is that it sets up on a lot of things if it predicts well, and Special attackers, even Roserade if you predict badly, can give it a Substitute and a few boosts.

Thankfully, Snorlax and Swampert hard counter it, so running one of those can usually Raikou-proof your team.

 

[shofly12]

unaware quaggy is also great for countering sub cm raikou. i run curse unaware quaggy and its an awesome switch in to subcm raikou

 

[Snunch]

I've tried a lot of variants of Rapid Spin Kabutops. The major advantages it has over other spinners is actually being offensively threatening and having STAB priority in exchange for having bad defensive typing and no foresight. The variants of Kabutops that try to minimize its weaknesses, such as by using very bulky EV spreads, leave you with a mediocre mon that doesn't really do anything well. The best way to play Kabutops is to play to its strengths, i.e. by being as threatening as possible when it does come in. That's why I think the best Kabutops set is Swords Dance / Stone Edge / Aqua Jet / Rapid Spin, 252 atk 252 spe adamant. Not a single ghost likes switching in on this, and bulky waters can't handle +2 Stone Edges. Yeah, Kabutops can't really come in on much, but if you make smart switches, Kabutops will really make your opponent pay when he does get in. A rapid spinner that can actually seize momentum, what a concept!

Oh yeah, rain dance is an unreliable gimmick and all of the above was talking about kabutops outside of rain

 

[Razza]

Yeh I was thinking kabutops could function as excadrill did in OU as an offensive spinner with the speed boost in the rain. I think that maybe 3 attacks superpower, spin,stoneedge, waterfall would be the best set as superpower takes out Empoleon which is nice if you are running kingdra as another rain dance benefactor.

 

[kokoloko]

Actually, Kabutops -does- have Foresight. It doen't need it most of the time, though.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Yeah, Foresight is a waste on Kabutops. Swords Dance or Support is the way to go.

 

[Godsend]

So, do people still feel like Roserade is broken or are we over that?

Also, screw Rose, and the other spikers, Qwilfish is the best. He is a great switch in to Darm, Arc, Escav and others and start spiking. It's pretty awesome, and Intimidate is always useful.

 

[Heysup]

I haven't really seen anything broken at the moment....

 

[SJCrew]

I think the Spikes issue is settled for now with much of the player base objecting to any sort of ban on the 'Big Three'.

As for offensive Rose, not broken. It can put one thing to sleep and still get walled by it, then get fucked up by offense if there's no time to wait out the sleep. Decent switch-ins for it with Sleep Clause active include Victini, Chandelure, Snorlax, Cresselia...all of these things can switch in on any move it commonly carries and OHKO it their own.

Even if most players lead off with Sleep Powder, you're likely to have at least one other decent switch-ins, and more Pokemon that can check it regardless. Without hazards, sleeping a major threat and checking bulky Water types is probably the best thing it's going to do in the average match.

I like UU as it is, and I'd rather not see any changes until more Dream World abilities/Pokemon start getting released. Just ladder up, enjoy the tier, and share some fun sets with us for the time being.

 

[Godsend]

I'm glad nothing is really deemed "broken" at the moment. To me, that means it's time to explore some forgotten RU/NU mons that never had a chance to shine. Some things I like to use are Qwilfish (like I've said before), SubExegutor (Sleep+the ability to possibly make 16 straight subs (for whatever reason) make it awesome), Lanturn (great typing, decent bulk), Hitmonlee (absolute monster) Torterra (still good this gen just like last) and a bunch of other random shit. I try and diversify the metagame, one random poke at a time.

 

[SJCrew]

Aggron's had a nice run in RU, but it's time for him to come home. Sand teams are still doing their thing, and many people forget to pack a Stoutland check or get their Rhyperior worn down too quickly. The big mineral dino has a much easier time coming in on both Return and Crunch, and takes 28.5% - 33.8% from Wild Charge at worst while Rhyperior has to worry about lucky crits or defense drops on a bad day.

Those who have played him any this gen or last knows what's gonna happen when he starts busting out CB Head Smashes, but another thing I was pleasantly surprised about is how effective Heavy Slam is as a secondary STAB; Hitmontop, a formerly decent counter, can't switch in on one of these to save his life and neither can Hippopotas. I was even tempted to use Heavy Metal on him once but it's not released and Heavy Slam caps at a disappointing 120 BP.

 

[Heysup]

That and you'd kill yourself every time you landed a Head Smash. Whenever you start consistently using moves other than Head Smash, you should start to wonder if there isn't a better, bigger, and more dangerous Pokemon you could be using.

 

[SJCrew]

You mean Victini? Good idea. But I'm actually fooling around with a team that uses both of those monsters these days and somehow snuck its way into top 10. While their offensive synergy is mostly half-assed theorymon on my part (Victini U-turns off of Milotic into epic win!!), having two powerhouse Pokemon that can feasibly beat the entire tier bears mad results. It's my favorite offensive approach in UU, and generally achieves much more than full-on sweeping attempts. Why set up when you can just kill everything in 2-3 hits?

And boy do I really want to try Curse under Sand. If he had Drain Punch, UU would be done for...

 

[TM13IceBeam]

That and you'd kill yourself every time you landed a Head Smash. Whenever you start consistently using moves other than Head Smash, you should start to wonder if there isn't a better, bigger, and more dangerous Pokemon you could be using.

Doesn't Aggron not take recoil from HS or am i missing sth

BTW Curse Cradily under Sandstorm is really cool, with rest she basically becomes virtually impenetrable outside of some crits/trick/sableye. I used her when stuff like Abomasnow still existed and she worked out quite great.

 

[Axa]

Doesn't Aggron not take recoil from HS or am i missing sth

BTW Curse Cradily under Sandstorm is really cool, with rest she basically becomes virtually impenetrable outside of some crits/trick/sableye. I used her when stuff like Abomasnow still existed and she worked out quite great.

He was talking about using Heavy Metal Aggron. Which is a terrible choice in general- If you wanted a Steel move that badly, go use Iron Head or Miss Tail.

 

[SJCrew]

Right; or I could just use Heavy Slam like I already have been since it gets 100-120 BP on most relevant targets. In contrast to OU, UU walls are surprisingly lightweights. It's mandatory in the analysis for good reason.

 

[Heysup]

Steel isn't a good spamming type at all even in UU. Sure, no immunities, but it's not that reliable. Not worth sacrificing Head Smash for, which is basically what you're suggesting.

 

[SJCrew]

...? No, I'm not suggesting anyone use Heavy Metal. I only said I was tempted to use it once because of how surprisingly decent Heavy Slam was for a secondary STAB. I probably would try it out once or twice if it had a higher base power cap like 150+. But even then, it'd still be willful trolling.

 

[toy Soldier]

A double dark team is pretty good, right now. I'm using a team with subroost Honchkrow and scarf Krookodile. This combo is very good against offense, with Honchkrow breaking the resists of dark/ground. And Krookodile is one of the best pokemon right now in UU, cleaning up late game and revengekilling. The team has to have 1 or 2 wallbreakers and hazards because it has trouble breaking physical walls like Rhyperior and Bronzong. The only problem is that Honchkrow kills himself fast. But after killing or weakening somebody. That that thing RU is. It's damn powerfull.

I see more and more rain dance teams lately. And my team team has trouble with it. What is good against rain?