np: XY OU Suspect Testing Round 6 - Wrecking Ball [Read Post 423 for Posting etiquette]

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Hey there guys, the OU Council has decided to suspect test Mawilite AKA Mega Mawile this round. Players across the spectrum have been calling for Mega Mawile to be suspect tested for a while now, so let's go.

To get the chance to vote, you'll need to achieve a COIL rating of 2700 or more on the OU Suspect Test ladder (in which Mega Mawile will be banned) that will be implemented very soon. Please note that this rating may not be the final rating required, and we reserve the right to increase or decrease the requirements based upon the first week of laddering. The suspect test will last for 2 weeks and will end on Wednesday 20 August 11:59pm EST. The vote will take place no more than a week after that.

Use this thread to discuss the suspects and your thoughts on the suspect metagame. If you have any questions, then feel free to contact me, Aldaron, gr8astard, Haunter or M Dragon through a PM. These threads tend to get derailed so please make extra effort to stay on topic. Future suspects need not be discussed in this thread.

Good luck and have fun laddering!

Antar's edit: as with the previous OU tests, the B value for this test is 17.0. To figure out how many battles you'll need to have in order to achieve reqs, first determine your GXE (shown on the ladder and when you type /rating) and plug that into the following formula:

N=17.0/log2(40*GXE/2700)

(Google calculator is awesome for this kind of thing).

Here are some sample values:
Code:
GXE N
100 30
90 41
85 52
80 70
75 112
70 324
Credit for the illustration goes to anundeadboy.


Blacklisted Users:
Der Richter
RHunterN
CatataFish_6
 
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Good, this is finally happening. really, a quickban could be a fantastic course of action in this situation, as mawile is ridiculous and will obviously be banned. mawile's power combined with its ridiculous typing that lets it switch into a lot of mons on offense, combined with its movepool, make it extremely broke. im down for a quickban once again
 

aim

pokeaimMD
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Mega Mawile honestly deserves to go. It's attacking power is absurd. Nothing switches in and likes it. The substitute focus punch set can deal with heatran the "counter." SD Fire Fang roasts Skarmory, ferrothorn, and mega scizor. Strong Sucker Punch and Play rough just dealing too much damage easily weakening checks like landorus-t doing ~35 - 40% after intimidate. Its excellent typing allows it to switch into a plethora of mons. Definitely deserves to be tested.
 
My post was deleted while I was EDITING.

ANYway:

Mawile?

Okay, I Think I can talk a little more about this than Aegislash, As I have Used/faced this one quite a Lot.

I really do not think Mawile is All that broken, at least of what I know, It's really slow, Sucker punch is Non-STAB, and is decently easy to play around, and It's STAB's are walled by fire.

It's also way less versitile than Aegislash ever was, meaning that counters can actually counter it without too much trouble
 

chimpact

fire nation
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Mega Mawile honestly deserves to go. It's attacking power is absurd. Nothing switches in and likes it. The substitute focus punch set can deal with heatran the "counter." SD Fire Fang roosts Skarmory, ferrothorn, and mega scizor. Strong Sucker Punch and Play rough just dealing too much damage easily weakening checks like landorus doing ~35 - 40% after intimidate. Its excellent typing allows it to switch into a plethora of mons. Definitely deserves to be tested.
GC 1/3
roast bro roast

Mawile's great but its a pokemon that sets up opportunities for itself on free switchins. It has a very difficult time switching in on attacks before its mega evolved because of its pathetic stats. I'm not sure if I want it to go because lati usage is going to skyrocket and mawile is one of the best checks to latis :[.
 

Empress

Warning: may contain traces of nuts
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Mega Maw has to go. Because of Huge Power it has essentially a Base Attack of 259, so not even Pokes who resist its moves enjoy switching into it. Sucker Punch patches up its bad Speed and is actually tough to play around. It only has one role- blowing shit up- but it does it extremely well. Combine its raw power with the two best defensive typings in the game, and you have a monster that dishes out damage while often taking pitiful damage itself. Mega Maw is also the poster child for how dominatingly offensive OU has become. Without it, the metagame would be a lot healthier.
 
I didn't think Mawile was ban worthy initially, just OP. Then the SubPunch set rose to prominence. Removes the threat of burn, has a different set of counters then the SD set and makes Sucker Punch stronger. I've used this Mega extensively and I'll post more in-depth later.
 
Mega Mawile is kind of hard to judge. Its obviously got ridiculous power, and great typing to back it up. Depending on the coverage it chooses to run, it can muscle past almost any would-be counters. That being said, its slow, and therefore overly reliant on shitty Sucker Punch. Its also damn near useless when burned, and people are tossing out burns all day every day in OU. Its obviously a very, very potent offensive threat, but there are just so many ways to check it, I don't feel that it is broken.

Also, even though I knew this was the next suspect, I still have to ask: why is this being suspected before Zard X and genies?
 
Alright for those who think mawile is broken plz name a counter to it whats, there heatran o nice subpunch killing dat shit, mega aggron subpunch nice oh right it can also sd and rape half of ppls teams nice,,,

What I'm saying here is dat literally mawile has its own 50-50 shit on what its set if u bring in the wrong poke u might get ure ass destroyed by it. It literally has no check or counter lol and to top it off it has actual a crap ton of bulk and actual can take a bunch of random shit no reason. Plz ban this god awful pokemon...... u know its a problem when char-y has to go defensive just to wall it...............
 
Ban this crap. Who cares if its slow? Its got priority and hits like a wrecking ball

Its only counters are crap with will-o-wisp like Arcanine that are otherwise pretty useless
 
Yeah Mawile's got power leaking out of her ass, but that doesn't always equate to brokenness. Currently the hardest hitting poke in OU, yeah, and nothing can really safely switch in, but you can say the same thing about Mega Hera and Mega Medicham, who are both faster and hit just as hard if not harder due to higher-powered STAB attacks. It's not hard to keep Mawile in check with literally anything faster that learns Will-O-Wisp or resists Sucker Punch. SubPunch is the only set really that teeters on the edge of brokenness, and even then it's not stupidly hard to phase out. There are other viable walls in OU besides Skarmory, you know -- Hippowdon comes to mind. Raw power alone just isn't enough to warrant a ban imo.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'm more on the fence about this one. Mega Mawile hits stupid hard and is probably harder to switch into than Aegislash, but doesn't have the bulk or staying power (though its defensive typing is godly). It has to rely on Sub or Sucker Punch to deal with offensive threats, and even then its Subs aren't hard to break and Sucker Punch is resisted by more things than Aegislash's Shadow Sneak.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
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As someone who always tends to overrate stallbreakers a bit it should come to no surprise to anyone that I find Mega-Mawile broken, more broken than either genie, more broken than Charizard-X, more broken than even Aegislash and the Deos (though not quite as unhealthy, but that's besides the point). Although not exactly the best Pokemon at actually breaking stall (that would be either Mega-Gardevoir, Mega-Heracross, or Mew) it's still extremely good at it : the SD set is vunerable to the WoW user but destroys everything else on Stall pretty much (especially paired up with a cleric/healing wish user, since the most common Wisper on Stall is XZard and that thing can't even take a neutral aka +2 burnt Play Rough, once it's gone you can heal up Maw and just rip through the team) , while the only thing that can take on SubPunch is MVenu who is pressured quite badly by it and needs HP Fire/EQ to even touch it. (Also, if you really hate Stall, you can always run SubPunch+Iron Head). Stall hasn't really been able to adapt to Mawile the way it adapted to Lando-I with SpD Gliscor, I mean you could point to Defensive YZard but few people can afford to run it on Stall due to the amount of support it requires (from what I heard you need 2 defoggers which is kinda ridiculous). Also it can actually lose to SubPunch if it comes in on rocks and loses Roost/Focus Punch 50/50s.

Now obviously, Mawile beating defensive teams isn't enough to make it broken, otherwise, we'd have suspected Mega-Gardevoir a long time ago. What makes Mega-Mawile banworthy is how much work it puts against offensive teams. Thanks to its amazing defensive typing, decent bulk, and Intimidate, it can eaily find an opening to come in vs offensive teams. Once it does that, it's very hard to deal with since it could either set up an SD and basically clean if all the things that can revenge it are weakened (and no, it really isn't "easy to revenge kill", all you need to do is get some damage on stuff like Keldeo and MGyara), set up a Sub which is easy given the switches it forces (basically guarantees a kill and a half, since nothing on offense can face MMaw behind a sub and live to tell the tale), or even directly attack. It's almost impossible to tell what it's going to do or even what set it's running, and getting it wrong will cost you way too much.

For instance, say you have Keldeo as your SD Mawile check, and the opposing MMaw just switched into Latias. Sending Keldeo directly into MMaw predicting SD is way too risky to even attempt, but the Latias you currently have out can't touch it at all, and you defenitely can't keep it in since you need it for the opposing Keldeo/Lando and you can't risk it setting up anything (especially a sub which basically guarantees 1.5 KOs) so what do you do? Fodder something else off? You could do that I guess, but once Keldeo comes in nothing stops Maw from switching back into Latias and abusing the entire team once again. Remind you of something? (Though this isn't nearly as bad as Aegi since MMaw can usually only come in twice vs offense, but that's well enough to score 2 KOs, possibly even clean late-game). And yet, as threatening as this thing is in theory, it's somehow so much better in practice... The only time I saw Mawile do nothing it was a Shed Shell variant, so...

There simply isn't a matchup where MMaw will not preform. Against defensive teams it can spam Play Nuke, against offensive teams, thanks Sucker "Stronger Priority Than Silk Scarf Ekiller" Punch it can revenge kill stuff as well as preform the role of a late-game cleaner, and one that is impossible to switch into no less. Above all, I believe MMaw to be broken simply because it defies the risk/reward that usually comes with wallbreakers. Usually, wallbreakers become less efficient the more offensive the teams they face are. That how it should be, since there needs to be a deterent to just filling your team with the nukiest stuff possible. You get to improve your matchup against defensive teams, in return you become more vulnerable against offensive ones. MMaw lets you improve your matchup against defensive teams, and also improve your matchup against offense as well. MMaw is just far, far too low-risk a wallbreaker to not be considered overpowered.

I don't know if it's because my obsession with including Latias on most of my teams, but I've had to alter almost all my teams to deal with MMaw better since I always end up struggling with it no matter what playstyle I use. A lot of these changes (stuff like putting Wisp over Toxic on Heatran, swapping Scarf Lando-T for Phys Def, I even nearly gave Sub to Sand Rush Exca) actually make me worse off against most of the metagame, but it's worth it simply because I don't lose to MMaw as often. I think this is evidence of teambbulding restrictions caused by MMaw, however, that's just my experience with it, it may not be the case for other people. Another annoying thing about MMaw is that you need a solid check to both sets. For instance, I had a team with Wisptran Lando-I MScizor and Scarfchomp and I still struggled with the thing. And unless you run something like Phys Def Lando-T or Arcanine/Weezing if you're into that, you can't reliably check both sets with the same Pokemon. This isn't really a case of "Mandibuzz effectively switches into Aegi 70% of the time but gets nailed by the rare Head Smash", since both these sets are, from what I've experenced, almost exactly as common as each other, and you can never tell which one it is. It's a litteral 50/50 as to whether or not Wisptran is going to stop that particular MMaw, as opposed to Mandibuzz who, in practice, can usually switch into Aegi.

Speaking of 50/50s, I honestly believe MMaw causes more of these than even Aegislash (whether it's going to setup or attack, whether it's going to SD or Sub, whether it's going to Sucker or Play Rough), but I won't bother you with a lengthy paragraph on that since Jukain is probably going to do it/has already done it anyway

Oh, I almost forgot to mention this but MMaw is really easy to support and make even more threatening as a result. I guess you could argue that this applies to almost any sweeper, but it's particularly true for MMaw due to the sheer number if things that can turn it into ecen more of a monster. Screens, Trick Room, Sticky Web, even SmashPass can make it an absolute nightmare for both defensive and offensive teams (not that it wasn't in the first place)

Funnily enough, a couple of months ago I didn't think MMaw was even suspect-worthy. But the more I faced it, the more and more broken it appeared to me. Now, I consider it to be the most broken Pokemon in the metagame at the moment, by quite a margin.

BAN
 
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We could've called this Suspect: "The Maws of Defeat" :(
But anyway, yes, Mega Mawile has got to go. Its attacking power is ridiculous, it has amazing defensive typing, and access to powerful priority.
The only way to really counter this thing is to run Bulky Arcanine.
 
You don't have to be fast to wreck stall. And it has SD Fire Fang, SKarmoary can WW but it loses more than half of it's health

Mega Mawile is also pretty darn bulky, it has huge attacking stat, great typing, and a priority move just to wreck faster pokemons.

Behind a sub it's guaranteed to get a kill, with SD it's guaranteed that something will die. 4 Attacks of Play Rough / Fire Fang / Sucker Punch / Focus Punch is also pretty scary since it can check both Heatran (on the switch) and ferrothorn/Scizor, it can also dent skarmory.
Play Rought is also waay to powerful, it does more than half to pokemon that resist it (and not that bulky) like Char Y and Talonflame.

Fairy- typing along with it's coverage move is also pretty damn good, imo, it should go this thing deserved the ban hammer before aegi
 

slayerx725232

"to sea, or not to sea" ~Melodramatic Sailor
Well then, not surprised that it's Mega Mawile getting the test this time around, just kinda wondering why it's this soon after the Aegi ban. No matter, it's well deserved. Mawile is one of those Mons that has a great typing and is not that afraid to switch in on quite a few things. And with it's outrageous Huge Power ability, the sheer force of a hit from it can devastate any Pokemon that wants to try and counter it. And while ground is still a decently common type in OU, it's not nearly enough to counter MegaWile. I can't wait to see this go, if it does end up. Looking forward to a Mawileless ladder.
 
As much as I love using Mega Mawile I do think it's broken, it's ability is like a free SD. Due to it's great typing and ability before Mega evolving it finds many opportunities to Substitute or SD. It has pretty decent bulk as well allowing it to take physical hits like an EQ from Gliscor. This thing just hits like a truck and I don't think there are any true counters besides physically defensive WoW Charizard Y, Mega Venusaur (who gets beat by Iron Head or Fire Fang before Mega Evolving) and the rare defensive Arcanine. It's so powerful that after an SD it OHKO's Garchomp with a non STAB Sucker Punch something not even +2 Arceus-Normal can accomplish without a Life Orb. I've also seen it used on TR and this thing is almost unstoppable.
 
mega mawile is a great pokemon in the ou metagame i can see it getting banned with the sub punch set and sword dance, im a little surprised that zard x did not get the suspect test too but that will have to wait for another day.
 

DeBlois

Banned deucer.
This is the only Pokemon that can be thrown on any team. If anyone can name a counter I would like to hear it, because I can not.

Mega Mawile with always take out 1-2 Mons if used correctly or even just used safely.. maybe even more if it gets up a sub or SD.
Amazing typing (offensively and defensively), Crazy atk power, Great Bulk, Prio and access to many different movepools. The quicker this thing goes, the better.

FUCK DAT BITCH
 
Mega Mawile does not need to be banned. The thing hits incredibly hard but it out-sped by pretty much everything. Because of this it relies on that sucker punch to do work and it's not too hard to play around that. Mega Mawile is easily ruined by anything that can out speed and put a burn on it. A pokemon this easily countered should not be banned.
 
Mega Mawile needs to go. Steel/Fairy is an amazing defensive typing allowing it to swith in to many pokemon.
While normal Mawile isn't really good, it has intimidate to allow Mega Mawile to set up on physical attackers easier than it normally could.
Not much on offense wants to switch into Mega Mawile while anything faster can be picked off with sucker punch.
Even though it pulls its weight almost every battle Mega Mawile does have flaws. Base 50 speed and reliance on sucker punch means that anything faster can pp stall out sucker punches if played right. Before Mega Evolving Mawile finds problems switching into certain pokemon because its so frail on the special side.
Mega Mawile counters depend on coverage it has.
SD with Fire Fang roast steels
Subpunch takes out Heatran
Overall Mega Mawile is a pokemon that can wreck teams with ease given proper support.
 
This thing... I hate this thing even more then Aegislash.
Sucker Punch coming from a Pokemon with 600ish attack (That's how much I believe it has) is insane, meaning that it doesn't have any trouble with most offensive mons. If it's running the swords dance set and you don't have anything with WOW (you should have some sort of status on each team, but if you don't play it safe enough, it might get KO'd to something besides Mawile) , you're screwed. If you try to burn it and it gets a sub off before you can, you're screwed. If you even have a sliver of a chance of defeating it, the Hax Lords will intervene, making your fire blast miss that one turn or something stupid like that (I'm joking of course owo). There aren't too many switch ins for it besides physically defensive Arcanine, which I don't run on every team of course. Amazing typing, priority, ridiculous attack, let this thing burn in OU hell, AKA Ubers. (Both literally and metaphorically.)
 

The Goomy

Whitest Mexican Alive
Mega Maw deserves to be suspected b/c it's attack is just absolutely ridiculous. It can serve several roles on offensive or even balanced teams (set up sweeper, wall breaker, revenge killer, heatran lure). It's sets can basically serve to remove whatever the team has trouble with. This is definitely a mon more deserving of a suspect that Aegislash. Whatever floats your boat Smogon. Just don't bandwagon pls. :]
 
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