It will most likely end up back in uu after it has been retested. The uu council is just banning everything that is potentially brokenSeriously don't agree with the Tornadus-T BL and can't wait to hear the justification behind it.
It will most likely end up back in uu after it has been retested. The uu council is just banning everything that is potentially brokenSeriously don't agree with the Tornadus-T BL and can't wait to hear the justification behind it.
Wow that is totally not how you play.The only broken zygarde set is the coil one and secondly espeed at plus two would kill weavile so I dunno what you guys are saying. Secondly a coil zygarde at plus 4(which it can get to almost every game) 2hkos cloyster with eq.
+4 0 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 193-228 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Edit: it also has a guarantees a kill after rocks
+4 0 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 193-228 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
And icicle spear wouldn't kill even without a sub up 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. +4 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 200-260 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- approx. 88.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zygarde was more broken than Latias and torn, I won't miss it at all.
Also I am very excited about weavile coming back and tbh I think it should stay.
Did you even read my second post? LolWow that is totally not how you play.
if you have a cloyster on your team, you switch it into zygarde AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
I don't know how zygarde is getting to +4 before cloyster even switches in. Even if he coils on the first turn, icicle spear still OHKO's unless hes running defensive EV's but we all know sub coil prefers to run special defense.
252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 420-500 (100 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
if we're going to judge based on four free turns, then everything with coverage that can't be completely immune walled needs to be banned because 4 free turns would let me substitute, shell smash twice and baton pass to anything, without the sub breaking, no less. So unless someone is trapped AND choiced into a move you're immune to, this calc is completely unrealistic and it does nothing to prove that zygarde is broken in UU. All that it proves is that against idiotic players you can sweep with zygarde, but it's a well known fact that against idiotic players you can sweep with just about anything.
Ok also why are you acting like you're a god and know everything about the tier lol. And cousins favorite? What the hell are you even saying? Secondly mega houndoom is revenged by common scarfers such as darm or mienshao. If you think mega houndoom is more broken then zygarde you clearly haven't played enough uu in general or against enough good players.all I see is people saying its hard to deal with but there are barely any facts. Zygarde counters are limited sure, but not nearly as limited as something faster like houndoom, which bests even some of the strongest special walls in the tier.
could someone explain to me why zygarde is so threatening without the whole... "Oh hes 2gud at +4 and hes my cosins faverit n reks evrything so ban pls" ?
I find it hard to call something OP when when it has over 5 legit, solid counters
Here's the thing; very few of Zygarde's limited number of checks can safely and immediately threaten him (I'll be referring to the Subcoil 252hp/2xxspd careful set in this post) aside from cloyster and can't really stop him from racking up a lot of residual damage from d-tail phazing+hazards.all I see is people saying its hard to deal with but there are barely any facts. Zygarde counters are limited sure, but not nearly as limited as something faster like houndoom, which bests even some of the strongest special walls in the tier.
could someone explain to me why zygarde is so threatening without the whole... "Oh hes 2gud at +4 and hes my cosins faverit n reks evrything so ban pls" ?
I find it hard to call something OP when when it has over 5 legit, solid counters
Not even a 2hko from the tier's premier bulky water. Keep in mind many bulky waters often don't run Ice Beam, especially Suicine. Meanwhile Zygarde phazes him out and in comes Victini, or Hippodown or Heracross of one of the many things that can't really threaten Zygarde, and he's sitting at 65%+ health with +1 def/atk. Zygarde can easily phaze again or grab another boost, or set up a sub while your team is eating up residual damage while Zygarde slowly recuperates his health with leftovers.Zygarde used Earthquake!
The opposing guesscune lost 29.7% of its health!
The opposing guesscune used Ice Beam!
It's super effective! Zygarde lost 43.8% of its health!
The opposing guesscune restored HP using its Leftovers!
I'm not trying to, I just don't know why everyone making zygarde out to be a giant threat when he has very many counters, its a little hard to take you seriously when you're basing your reason for ban based on a +4 calculation.Ok also why are you acting like you're a god and know everything about the tier lol. And cousins favorite? What the hell are you even saying? Secondly mega houndoom is revenged by common scarfers such as darm or mienshao. If you think mega houndoom is more broken then zygarde you clearly haven't played enough uu in general or against enough good players.
Aside from cloyster theres 6 A+ rank viable pokemon you overlooked that are COUNTERS.Here's the thing; very few of Zygarde's limited number of checks can safely and immediately threaten him (I'll be referring to the Subcoil 252hp/2xxspd careful set in this post) aside from cloyster and can't really stop him from racking up a lot of residual damage from d-tail phazing+hazards.
Counter does not have to 2HKO if zygarde cannot even 3HKO the counter, zygarde does not have a recovery move it does not need to do over 56%Not even a 2hko from the tier's premier bulky water. Keep in mind many bulky waters often don't run Ice Beam, especially Suicine. Meanwhile Zygarde phazes him out and in comes Victini, or Hippodown or Heracross of one of the many things that can't really threaten Zygarde, and he's sitting at 65%+ health with +1 def/atk. Zygarde can easily phaze again or grab another boost, or set up a sub while your team is eating up residual damage while Zygarde slowly recuperates his health with leftovers.
phasing sets are completely walled by several common pokemon and/or lack set up and are rarely as threatening because of this.Phazing from the like of M-Aggron, Hippodown or bulky waters simply will not work, because Zygarde will outspeed and phaze them first with D-tail.
One counter you didn't list is physically defensive Florges, which is one of the best switch-ins to Zygarde since he can't be phazed. Even then he needs to be near 100% healthy since Zygarde can muscle through him with EQ if you wish with just a little bit of residual damage, while Florges is doing 40 - 47.6% with moonblast.
Honestly, are you special? Did you read the other post I made? I know you didn't it's on page nine and it's too hard on my phone to quote two things. Read it before you go on another tangent of you being superior to everyone else. Secondly these "counters" would be useless if there was no zygarde on the opposing team. Cresselia doesn't run Ice beam and neither does cune. Tangrowth also doesn't run hp ice unless you're using bt's garbo sets. Lastly mew doesn't run ice beam either. I don't know what meta you're playing but it's not the same one as me.I'm not trying to, I just don't know why everyone making zygarde out to be a giant threat when he has very many counters, its a little hard to take you seriously when you're basing your reason for ban based on a +4 calculation.
Slowbro being the main counter, counters every possible set, phasing him out just lets him recover HP, at no point is zygarde at an advantage.
Cloyster switches in and OHKO's unless zygarde just sits there spamming dragon tail, which wont do very much to cloyster and cloyster OHKO's no matter what set or what move zygarde is used.
Again Suicune with ice beam, counters most sets, puts phasing sets in an uncomfortable position, has rest talk recovery
Crobat switches in, handles any move + Espeed (yes even stone edge) and can toxic though substitute, effectively shutting ANY zygarde down.
Mew 2HKO's with Ice beam, can knock off his leftovers, has recovery, can phase him out and remove boosts, faster than coil sets and has will-o-wisp
Mega Blastoise also 2HKO's with ice beam, and can tank any of his attacks.
Cresselia 3HKO with ice beam, has recovery, zygarde does so little damage, dragon tails barely do more than lefties recovery.
Tangrowth - Can't be touched, 3HKO's with HP Ice, 2HKO's rarely when invested, still can't be touched, phasing recovers HP.
And these are just things A- Rank Viability and Up, if you really can't aford one of these very useful pokemon on your team, I can't help you.
Aside from cloyster theres 6 A+ rank viable pokemon you overlooked that are COUNTERS.
Counter does not have to 2HKO if zygarde cannot even 3HKO the counter, zygarde does not have a recovery move it does not need to do over 56%
phasing sets are completely walled by several common pokemon and/or lack set up and are rarely as threatening because of this.
physically defensive florges works as a zygarde counter but then you would be running exclusively for zygarde, which would be bad. Florges covers much more going specially defensive.
I used the five you gave as examples of counters earlier in this thread. Of them, one isn't an actual counter (M-Aggron, I don't even think he's a check), two have to run Ice Beam and even then don't really threaten Zygarde or stop him from phazing shit around (Suicine & Slowbro).Aside from cloyster theres 6 A+ rank viable pokemon you overlooked that are COUNTERS.
It does if you don't want Zygarde to simply phaze your "counter" out and force you to run several team members through stealth rock+d-tail and possibly spikes damage.Counter does not have to 2HKO if zygarde cannot even 3HKO the counter, zygarde does not have a recovery move it does not need to do over 56%
Again, it doesn't mean much if they wall him because he'll either use them as setup bait or phaze them out. Being able to set up on so much of the meta while being able to phaze his checks and counters at little risk to himself is what makes Zygarde so dangerous.phasing sets are completely walled by several common pokemon and/or lack set up and are rarely as threatening because of this.
first of all, the heck is your problem buddy? of course I'm a special attacker!Honestly, are you special? Did you read the other post I made? I know you didn't it's on page nine and it's too hard on my phone to quote two things. Read it before you go on another tangent of you being superior to everyone else. Secondly these "counters" would be useless if there was no zygarde on the opposing team. Cresselia doesn't run Ice beam and neither does cune. Tangrowth also doesn't run hp ice unless you're using bt's garbo sets. Lastly mew doesn't run ice beam either. I don't know what meta you're playing but it's not the same one as me.
What is so 4mSS about slowbro now, the usual is scald Ice beam toxic and recovery, what is he running, psychic? with all the darks running around?Shiny Minun , I'll break this down a bit:
Slowbro: Only the AV set can really afford to fit Ice Beam. AV sets aren't nearly as physically bulky as standard CMBro. You can argue Scald, but ChestoRest DD is eating that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Cloyster: Beats SubCoil. Don't see it fairing too well against DD sets, especially any DD set that uses Stone Edge.
Suicune: I'm sorry, but CroCune isn't running Ice Beam and it's the only set that runs RestTalk. CroCune vs. SubCoil Ziggy is iffy on both sides if it's a last Pokemon scenario. Offensive CM and the odd SubCM Cune are the only 2 sets that run Ice Beam, neither of which run much in the way of defensive investment.
Crobat: Once more, ChestoRest DD is killing Crobat since it dgaf about Toxic. Beats SubCoil, utter setup fodder to ChestoRest DD.
Mew: And tell me how you're fitting Ice Beam on to this thing. Tell me how. Yeah, you're not. The simple fact you're considering running Ice Beam on Mew should show you how powerful Zygarde was/is.
Mega Blastoise: I'll grant you that one, but it had better be in good shape. +1 Adamant Zygarde Outrage does around 70%. Some prior damage means it goes down to standard DD. ChestoRest DD needs a little more prior damage, but it's still doing around 60% with +1 EQ.
Cresselia: Granted. Won't fight this one off, but it isn't exactly super common...
Tangrowth: Awkward matchup. No clue how you fit HP Ice onto Tangrowth in the first place, but yeah. SubCoil kills this thing (eventually) Any non-Sub set gets put to sleep though (ChestoRest set has its Chesto Berry used up much sooner than it would like)
Yeah, just because something can actually deal with SubCoil Zygarde doesn't make it fullproof. Anything that relies on status is getting destroyed by ChestoRest DD. Any bulky Pokemon expecting a SubCoil set may be ruined by a DD set that uses 252 Attack Adamant nature. (aka all of them) THAT is/was the problem with Zygarde. There are answers to SubCoil, but most of them get wrecked by another set that's just as viable.
Only a problem because you're unwilling to change move sets, slowbro loves getting healed on zygardes dragon tails, and can continue switching in, even with hazards up on every dragon tail. If slowbro is in, zygarde cannot phase without taking an ice beam, which hurts even the max sp.def setsI used the five you gave as examples of counters earlier in this thread. Of them, one isn't an actual counter (M-Aggron, I don't even think he's a check), two have to run Ice Beam and even then don't really threaten Zygarde or stop him from phazing shit around (Suicine & Slowbro).
Slowbro, Tangrowth, don't care and phase lets slower counters like mega blastoise get an extra hit in, before taking one. Assuming your team isn't a total pushover to hazards, a lot of the times the switch in damage is swiftly countered by whatever recovery item that pokemon may have.It does if you don't want Zygarde to simply phaze your "counter" out and force you to run several team members through stealth rock+d-tail and possibly spikes damage.
letting your opponent get up screens or other potentially game shifting hazards is a bad idea.Again, it doesn't mean much if they wall him because he'll either use them as setup bait or phaze them out. Being able to set up on so much of the meta while being able to phaze his checks and counters at little risk to himself is what makes Zygarde so dangerous.
Minor nitpick, but actually, if I remember correctly, like 12% of Cresselia run Ice Beam. Other than that, you're right. Also, nice to see you on Smogon and not just PS!, like you usually are.Honestly, are you special? Did you read the other post I made? I know you didn't it's on page nine and it's too hard on my phone to quote two things. Read it before you go on another tangent of you being superior to everyone else. Secondly these "counters" would be useless if there was no zygarde on the opposing team. Cresselia doesn't run Ice beam and neither does cune. Tangrowth also doesn't run hp ice unless you're using bt's garbo sets. Lastly mew doesn't run ice beam either. I don't know what meta you're playing but it's not the same one as me.
Edit: I'm sorry if I'm being harsh here but really come on bro. No one runs all these mons with ice beam or hp ice.
Why would Flygon even stay in on Slowbro given the chance at burn from Scald? The problem with Ice Beam really is that the mons you mentioned tend to be rather defensively oriented and aside from Zygarde would not exactly be hitting very much relevant threats as they are not 2 OHKO's due to their lack of investment. Moreover, many of the mons you mention have better moves to run that actually hit more threats in the metagame or tend to be redundant in hitting the same threats - e.g. Nidoking/Queen - but with a non-STAB move that may leave the opponent at gaining momentum.Slowbro likes running ice beam, there are threats in the game it handles and it has good synergy with water, hitting the grass types that resist water.
Theres useful things to take out with it, scarf flygon for example, slowbro loves switching in on them.
I don't get why everyone wants to run mono-attack suicune, its a great way to get yourself walled by many of the grass types in the tier as well as getting completely wrecked by anything with with water immune. (common in gastrodon)
Crobat dismantles non-rest zygarde out without using an ice move at all.
Honestly I don't understand everyone's stigma with ice beam here, a threat emerges and its the easiest way to take it out, if something is broken every time you have to slightly adjust move sets for it then I'm surprised Ubers isn't half the dex by now. The only reason zygarde posses a threat to you is because you're ignoring it, it's an oversight on your part because there are more than enough GOOD COUNTERS in the UHPU tier where you should not be hard pressed having to deal with it.
Ya I agree, Weavile can also be used as a great unexpected trapper with all the switches it causes.so far, it's rocking, but not overpowered imo. his knock off is massively powerful, but it's very frail and has a lot of exploitable weakness. steel types that have acceptable defense and aren't psychic are good checks to it, as well as some bulky waters.
i ran thick fat assault vest hariyama for some relative success, countering kyurem, weavile and mega houndoom.