np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]

[Machi]

Is there a protocol for (re)re-testing suspects voted bl by slim margins like Salamence or Klefki?

Quoting the testing thread FAQ:

Q: Is retesting each BL Pokemon individually be best way to re-introduce them to the game? Why not in small groups?
A: By reintroducing each subject into UU individually we're making sure that the metagame, or rather, the stuff we know will be in the metagame, can handle it. Testing in small groups could easily lead to a case of broken-checking-broken, which we want to avoid completely. However if, once we test every suspect once, we still feel as if the metgaame could improve by reintroducing more BLs into it, then I'm open to doing group testing.

I'd assume they would have to go through one cycle first, excluding the ones that potentially may never get a re-test, and from there I guess if there is enough ambiguity and support it would likely be retested.

 

[panamaxis]

There is an option to re-test stuff yeah, but only after we go through the full list of BLs.

 

[kokoloko]

it's more than an option actually. we're almost certainly going to go through every suspect more than once.

part of the big picture.

also mence wasn't a minority vote Godsend :o

 

[Magnemite]

On a related question, if the drops make a previously tested BL mon a lot easier to deal with (i.e. Blissey and Goodra with Magnezone), would there be a possibility of it being tested again before all of them are tested once?

Also, Manaphy is going straight to BL, right?

 

[kokoloko]

no and yes

 

[Minus]

On a related question, if the drops make a previously tested BL mon a lot easier to deal with (i.e. Blissey and Goodra with Magnezone), would there be a possibility of it being tested again before all of them are tested once?

Also, Manaphy is going straight to BL, right?

Magnemite, I think someone said earlier that each Pokemon will be retested over again after the first round of bans, so no. Since Manaphy was BL before, it will be now.

Read it wrong the first time lol, and damn ninjas leading the tier >:[

 

[Bouff]

so is everyone going to ignore the fact that goodra checks 90% of the special attackers in the tier or are we just going to continue whoring volc and luke because those are the only things that anyone cares about. this thing will pretty much be the epitome of bulky offense especially since it has two really gr8 abilities

 

[nv]

First off, I am honestly happy Mence is gone (although I was on the fence about and still was leading up to final votes).

Secondly, I really want Goodra here. It is the only Dragon to beat Florges as it learns Sludge Bomb/Wave, has AV to tank Florge's Moonblast (sadly that 30% chance for SpA drop but oh well). Also Luke is gonna be great in UU. We, me and a bunch of UU regs, were talking on Showdown about the idea of Luke in UU and the conclusion is that when it sets up it is almost gg, but its frailty limits its set up opportunities and its abysmal 90 speed for UU leaves much to be desired. All in all, it needs setup to do a fuck ton to the other team but the bulkiness of UU coupled with Luke's frailty/abysmal speed I feel will keep it in check for UU. Alakazam will be a cool addition to UU with it being the ultimate RK'er of the tier, but its Mega will prob be banned unfortunately. It ties with M-Aero forcing Aero to run Max Speed + positive nature, but its power is too much albeit makes Ala more of a hard hitter than an RK'er (since it has to hold the Mega Stone). Overall, Ala is gonna be a tight ban/stay because it has an immense amount of power, but it is weak to Knock Off no matter what it runs and with MegaZam, it is revenge killed by Scarfers (like M-Aero is/can be). And Volc can gtfo out of UU along with Manaphy.

Lastly, I hope Togekiss and Infernape come to UU as Ape provides another Fire poke to spam and a decent suicide lead for Hyper Offense teams. Togekiss will be very much welcomed as with it, Zygarde can stay, :D. But seriously, it is always nice to have another Fairy in UU (only got Flower/reg Garde atm and Flower is only viable imo). Blissey = same fate as Manaphy/Volc.

All I got to say, now let's do this shit. BRING ON THE DROPS!!!

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Blissey = same fate as Manaphy/Volc.

All I got to say, now let's do this shit. BRING ON THE DROPS!!!

I don't think Blissey will be as certain of a ban as those two because there are quite a few things in the tier that either set up on her or outright OHKO. Also, unlike Chansey, she's vulnerable to mixed attackers like Life Orb Superpower Hydreigon.

 

[Petrico94]

Did OU ever recover from the increase in Baton Pass teams?

 

[Godsend]

Idk, if it got that many votes for BL I think it should stay there. It's a massive threat, and Klefki was annoying af.

Klefki had more UU votes then bl it was just one short of being UU, Salamence was dead even.

 

[Goodra]

Hope to see Goodra drop to UU where it can hopefully shine. OU has been cruel to it as of late mostly due to other Pokemon overshadowing it *cough*Latias*cough*

 

[Machi]

so is everyone going to ignore the fact that goodra checks 90% of the special attackers in the tier or are we just going to continue whoring volc and luke because those are the only things that anyone cares about. this thing will pretty much be the epitome of bulky offense especially since it has two really gr8 abilities

While he does check them his lack of reliable recovery isn't exactly appealing. Moreover, he faces competition with Hydregion who happens to resist dark attacks, which is pretty relevant, while having access to U-turn, Roost, and levitate that overall I just don't find Goodra versatile enough to fit in that easily unless you somewhat go out of your way to do so. I'm not saying he won't be good but I also can't say I ever particularly saw myself in team building wishing Goodra were in the tier.

 

[Bouff]

yeah, i guess you're right- and i don't really think that he needs reliable recovery when he has a massive special defensive stat and wish passing is everywhere. in that case nidoqueen checks a lot of stuff but i guess it's not /that good/ because it doesnt get recover rite?!?!?! i mean sure he has piss poor phys def but if you're running gooey a large portion of them become much easier to check offensively (hera comes to mind). i'm not really sure why you'd compare goodra to hydrei lol, literally the only thing they have in common is a dragon typing and specially based attacks. also,

>goodra
>not versatile

nigga that things movepool is large af, it gets all sort of shit like sludge wave, power whip for those annoying water/grounds, and a lot more that shouldnt really need to be listed.

 

[Machi]

yeah, i guess you're right- and i don't really think that he needs reliable recovery when he has a massive special defensive stat and wish passing is everywhere. in that case nidoqueen checks a lot of stuff but i guess it's not /that good/ because it doesnt get recover rite?!?!?! i mean sure he has piss poor phys def but if you're running gooey a large portion of them become much easier to check offensively (hera comes to mind). i'm not really sure why you'd compare goodra to hydrei lol, literally the only thing they have in common is a dragon typing and specially based attacks. also,

>goodra
>not versatile

nigga that things movepool is large af, it gets all sort of shit like sludge wave, power whip for those annoying water/grounds, and a lot more that shouldnt really need to be listed.

Versatile in that you know it is generally there as a sort of bulky pivot and I wouldn't exactly compare Goodra to Queen since well Queen attempts to be a wall breaker while having the incredible utility of Stealth rock they're just not very comparable in that department. Whereas Goodra takes a hit and retaliates more or less, unless you want to go for those curse sets in an attempt for a late game sweep. Well Goodra will compete with a slot for a dragon, unless you plan to double up on them, but even then considering that Hydregion is often used as a clutch to check popular special attackers, and to an extent Victini/Darm, I can't say I find this all too favorable when I just find myself getting more mileage out of Hydregion whom I find in practice to have more staying power.

Yes you do have wish but lets not pretend it is the most reliable means of recovery especially when wish passing is as easily telegraphed as it is that most competent players won't exactly allow the recipient to accept it all that easily, and this was discussed earlier on the thread for a different mon. More importantly I just don't see there being that much difficulty checking special attackers with the existing options, and many of which are easy enough to play around, that while another option is nice I don't feel the tier was starved for another one.

While he does have a good movepool again I don't see it as anything too special since its not exactly anything too special in itself since he is monotype and only above average SpA and decent Atk. In any event no need to get defensive I'm just stating it is just my opinion and conjecture as to why I'm not exactly keen on discussing or minding Goodra all that much since I don't see it making that big of a splash. Frankly, I just find Goodra to be one of those things good in paper but different in practice.

I don't find Goodra bad by any means but you know he just isn't as exciting since he definitely needs to find his niche and he is far more balanced as a drop down I feel, i.e. he doesn't scream suspect. I'd love to see how he interacts with the tier, and hey more choices are always fun.

 

[Bouff]

Versatile in that you know it is generally there as a sort of bulky pivot and I wouldn't exactly compare Goodra to Queen since well Queen attempts to be a wall breaker while having the incredible utility of Stealth rock they're just not very comparable in that department. Whereas Goodra takes a hit and retaliates more or less, unless you want to go for those curse sets in an attempt for a late game sweep. Well Goodra will compete with a slot for a dragon, unless you plan to double up on them, but even then considering that Hydregion is often used as a clutch to check popular special attackers, and to an extent Victini/Darm, I can't say I find this all too favorable when I just find myself getting more mileage out of Hydregion whom I find in practice to have more staying power.

Yes you do have wish but lets not pretend it is the most reliable means of recovery especially when wish passing is as easily telegraphed as it is that most competent players won't exactly allow the recipient to accept it all that easily, and this was discussed earlier on the thread for a different mon. More importantly I just don't see there being that much difficulty checking special attackers with the existing options, and many of which are easy enough to play around, that while another option is nice I don't feel the tier was starved for another one.

While he does have a good movepool again I don't see it as anything too special since its not exactly anything too special in itself since he is monotype and only above average SpA and decent Atk. In any event no need to get defensive I'm just stating it is just my opinion and conjecture as to why I'm not exactly keen on discussing or minding Goodra all that much since I don't see it making that big of a splash. Frankly, I just find Goodra to be one of those things good in paper but different in practice.

so by clutch you mean.. mega houndoom? because i dont recall hydreigon being a clutch to shit like megastoise, shaymin, etc. , where as goodra deals with those much easier than hydrei ever dreams of being. and it's not really a clutch "to an extent" to darm and tini either because both can just easily u-turn ( or even superpower in darm's case) to a proper check.

also you're acting like doubling up on types is a bad thing, when it's clearly not as shown by a lot of the top ladder players (i.e. flcl having pert and cune on the same team), so no, goodra doesn't compete for a dragon slot when it can fit much easier on stall then hydrei can ( goodra + sunfish imo).

i also don't see how wishpassing being predictable is a bad thing, especially when there are /very/ few things in the tier that can effectively stop it (aroma is really underrated as a wish passer but we've all heard meru jack off to it anyway), and those that can be are checked fairly well by goodra ( mega houndoom).

i have some other shit to say but it's 4 in the fucking morning so i need to eat, i'll edit this later.

 

[silenced]

First off, I am honestly happy Mence is gone (although I was on the fence about and still was leading up to final votes).

Secondly, I really want Goodra here. It is the only Dragon to beat Florges as it learns Sludge Bomb/Wave, has AV to tank Florges Moonblast (sadly that 30% chance for SpA drop but oh well).

Unfortunately that's not going to be the case too often
252+ SpA Goodra Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Florges: 126-150 (35 - 41.6%) -- 80.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Florges: 126-150 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And I'm aware this isn't the optimal spread for florges, I've forgotten how many SpDef EV's the physical set uses (is it 36? IDK, I forget)

LO/Specs would help...but LO detracts from being a good tank without an ability like sheer force. As for specs...while a specs loaded Draco Meteor is cool, a choice locked poison attack is anything but.

 

[Sleepless]

. Alakazam will be a cool addition to UU with it being the ultimate RK'er of the tier, but its Mega will prob be banned unfortunately. It ties with M-Aero forcing Aero to run Max Speed + positive nature, but its power is too much albeit makes Ala more of a hard hitter than an RK'er (since it has to hold the Mega Stone).

Not having the ability to carry any items, with LO regular zam actaully just slightly outdamages Mega-zam, forfieting only speed and the mega slot but with Magic Guard, it could successfully bluff the Sash. ( Assuming both are with the same nature )

252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 174-206 (43 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[TM13IceBeam]

wow rip mence

tbh i really think it could've gone both ways, as the vote has shown. probably the most controversial suspect so far (except keys orz)

regarding possible drops i think i made a post a couple of pages back about why volc is ridiculous af (it's mostly because there are no good switch-ins, your choice of special wall/volc answer can be fucked over by whatever shit volc is running outside of qd/buzz/firestab, such as giga drain for water types, hurricane for fire types, florges does shit outside of toxic, umbreon/mew die straight out so you're pretty much left with goodra and blissey)

lucario is somewhat broken imho, in the same vein as megaluke in OU, due to having strong offenses, SD/NP, and decently powered stabs on each end of the spectrum. still hard to tell though since its frail and uu has a bunch of strong fire types that can make setup hard for luke. something to look out for. infernape probably falls somewhere along the same line.

togekiss is well... considering we survived with jirachi i think togekiss might be manageable? lmao that said togekiss has a better typing and better off offensive presence with np and such.

alakazam would be interesting, definitely. he brings to UU a strong and reliable revenge killer (he was great in UU during the time he was allowed after his HA was released) and a very threatening mega evolution. sash zam is pretty standard and great, but the mega boasts amazing offenses as well as psyshock to beat special walls, so it'll be interesting indeed.

blissey/goodra will be interesting additions, definitely a welcome addition to more options for special walling.



for move ups, manectric moving up'd be a big deal but i don't think he's as common as before as far as i can tell. same for vaporeon, though she's one of the best bulky waters in the tier so she'll be missed. at least we are probably getting blissey for dem OP wishes!

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

togekiss is well... considering we survived with jirachi i think togekiss might be manageable? lmao that said togekiss has a better typing and better off offensive presence with np and such.

togekiss isn't very likely to drop. It received 4.2% usage in march and 4% usage in april (cut off is 3.41%).
and besides togekiss was s rank last gen but now it has a decent typing so it would probably be really broken in uu

 

[Chronobreak]

AAAGGGHH! The suspense is too much!!!!! Where are drops?!?!

 

[RowDog]

Can't wait for these suspects to drop ^_^ new toys to play with! So I'm gonna go over how I think each one will sit in the tier.

Volcarona, I can see this lasting about as long as Landorus did. The only reason why this thing would even be UU is because of all the Physical Flying priority up in OU, otherwise it is a great Pokemon and will pretty much destroy the tier.

Lucario, seems quite manageable on the surface actually. Its poor bulk and an unfortunate speed tier will make it rather easy to beat imo. It really needs a boost before it has all the damage it needs in order to sweep. The most interesting thing about it though is the priority which it will bring to the tier, something that UU is rather lacking in, and this Poke has 3 priority moves!

Goodra, will definitely be a pretty cool Special tank in the tier. Good mixed offences, great special bulk, some nifty abilities and a great movepool to abuse will make it a rather interesting Pokemon. But it is held back by its Physical Def, Speed and lack of recovery and all in all I feel it will fit quite nicely in UU.

Togekiss, if it does drop this will be the one I am most excited for. Not so much for Offensive potential, but Defensively it is something that the tier could really use, especially with some of the BL Pokemon such as Zygarde. Probably one of the more interesting potential drops.

Infernape, this one actually looks quite scary. Very fast and with good mixed stats to abuse 2 great STAB moves, I am actually not sure whether UU can handle the monkey, as on paper it looks kind of scary.

Alakazam, very interesting mon. Very hard to fill roles that the non-mega fulfils in an almost foolproof revenge killer with Magic Guard and Scarf, whilst the Mega has insane sweeping potential. Will definitely be very good in UU.

Blissey, monster wishes, great Special bulk but let down by no offensive presence and physical bulk. Finally people see how Chansey's mixed bulk beats Blissey's leftovers.

 

[Ununhexium]

Volcarona- this thing is going to be gone fast. yes, it is 4x sr weak. yes, it has a low physical defense; but it will still be able to do heavy damage. im too lazy to do calcs, so im not sure how well goodra and blissey can check it, but im not sure they can do enough to keep it from BL.
Lucario- This will be interesting. there are no walls that can really stop him. he does have subpar stats, but he is really versatile between SD and NP. also, he has a bit of 4MSS and he can never really run everything he wants.
Goodra- this will be cool. a good special tank will increase other special attacker's chances of staying UU. it checks a lot of special attackers, but is still not broken. it is the equalizer we needed in klefki but this time might stay UU
Infernape- i honestly have no idea
Togekiss- this will be fun. it is basically the same as it was last gen with better typing. im just not excited to see paraflinching from her.
Alakazam- this thing will be really strong. it can revenge kill most of the tier with the focus sash set or even take a full on offensive with a LO.
Blissey- im excited to see blissey. very good special defense that will definitely help when we begin reretesting other special attackers like Magnezone

 

[zerocielX]

If they do end up dropping, Togekiss and Infernape are gonna be really good addition to the tier. I'm looking forward to spamming SpecsKiss :)

 

[Schpoonman]

RowDog Dude, Alakazam uses a Focus Sash for revenge killing, not a Scarf.