np: XY UU Stage 3 - Calling [Diggersby: BL, Next: Scolipede]

[Schpoonman]

Mega Sableye, maybe not so much. 252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 144-172 (47.3 - 56.5%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO
Now, Diancie... Okay, I was about to run this calc when Earthquake and Poison Jab reared their ugly heads on the calculator. Hm. Scolipede might just be something you either have to clear hazards after it's gone or it's just still broken, which I'd be okay with.

 

[Machi]

Mega Sableye, maybe not so much. 252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 144-172 (47.3 - 56.5%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO
Now, Diancie... Okay, I was about to run this calc when Earthquake and Poison Jab reared their ugly heads on the calculator. Hm. Scolipede might just be something you either have to clear hazards after it's gone or it's just still broken, which I'd be okay with.

Yeah thing with Diancie is he'd likely just opt to Baton Pass as it would be more optimal even with his +2 boost to offense. She won't exactly be able to do much to stop that.

 

[slated]

yeah scolipede is just crazy broken. not only can it sweep teams by itself with speed boost but also can just pass its boosts to a teammate (it becomes ridiculous when you're facing a huge threat offensively with +2 attack and +1 or +2 speed.) this retest should be over soon imo.

 

[Hogg]

Hmm... Testing the Spikes/Endeavor lead right now in place of Froslass on a generic spikestacking Lucario team. I certainly miss Taunt, but so far Scolipede has been getting Spikes up just as reliably, and while it's not as good versus stall, it's probably better versus offense - the fact that it outspeeds basically every Scarfer after a boost is a pretty big deal.

Not sure whether Megahorn or Pin Missile is the better choice, though. Megahorn has fantastic power, but its accuracy is a pain (missing after Endeavoring something down to 1 HP sucks), and being able to beat sash Azelf leads is pretty cool.

 

[Ernesto]

Lol, why is this thing not in OU range anymore smh.

Let's not forget the other retarded set this thing can run, which is Iron Defense BP to CM Espeon. I dunno how common it'll be, but it'll certainly not be pretty if you happen to run into it on the ladder.

Also Scolipede is slower than Azelf the first turn, so running Pin Missile is pretty much the same as just attacking twice since you can't prevent SR. Obviously accuracy is still an issue, but when you have a 120 BP STAB move coming from 299 Attack (assuming you're running Jolly, dunno if that's the case), it's hard to give that up just for that reason...

 

[Hogg]

True enough. I started thinking about switching to PM after missing a Megahorn against a 1 HP Mega-Aero, but I guess it's still probably not worth it. I guess the only real advantage against Sash Azelf is that you can Protect first turn instead of Megahorning and still beat it, in case they decide to Taunt or something instead of setting rocks. You also don't need to rely on Megahorn hitting twice in a row to win.

 

[Wanka]

i feel like the iron defense set for scolipede pass is going to be much more broken than SD bass. there a some good screeners in UU like azelf that also pack taunt and with the sreens and the defense boost whatever sweeper you choose like espeon will be nearly untouchable. not to mention a good memento user in whimsicott.

 

[Hogg]

Playing a bit more with Spikes/Endeavor Scoli, it's not so much better than Froslass that it would be worth banning for this alone... but it's definitely an improvement in some ways. Just played two games in a row where it single-handedly took out the opposing team's Scarfer in addition to getting a layer of Spikes down, which is a pretty big deal... especially when the Scarfer is Darmanitan or Infernape, who Sableye can't touch and who can both OHKO Lucario. Nice to be able to take some pressure off of Swampert.

I still miss Froslass in some matchups, but I'm having fun with Scoli for now. I might actually try to build a team around it next instead of just subbing it into an existing team. Might try a Toxic Spikes version next.

(And yeah, as OG_Wanka said above, the Iron Defense Scolipede is the one that scares me most.)

 

[glock in my toyota]

As far as scolipede goes, it will just be so broken it's ridiculous. honestly i might not play this test simply because of how stupid broken scolipede is. scoli can perform so many different roles on offense, or even take part in enforcing baton pass as a legitimate strategy again. the fact that scoli can set up, sweep, and pass attack + speed on ONE set is broken in and of itself. iron defense pass will be prevalent as well, passing defense + speed can easily let certain pokemon set up and sweep, especially with screens/memento/both up. i've been fooling around for quite some time with scolipass in oras ou, and it is sufficiently broken there as well. sure, uu doesnt have such threats as belly drum azumarill to pass into and set up, but ive been looking into some uu mons that can get the defense and speed, set up and win, much like azumarill can, namely belly drum darm @_@. plus, uu has espeon, so yeah. spikes lead scoli is a good mon, but nowhere near broken, as other spikes leads, namely froslass, give it a run as best spike lead. speed boost is the only thing that sets scoli out from other spike leads, but endeavor cant quite apply the pressure that destiny bond can. in all, scoli will be phenomenally broken in uu simply because it can run so many ridiculous, powerful, game-breaking sets.

 

[Wanka]

Tbh, i still think frostlass is a better lead spike stacker as well for one sole reason.....it gets taunt. one of the niches frosty has as well as being a spike stacker is its ability to taunt galvantula turn 1. given tht most teams frostlass is on are hyper offense teams which really hate sticky webs. (destiny bond and endeavor do kinda the same thing so im not to worried about tht) but tht is most definately why i would rather stick with frostlass as a spike stack lead

 

[glock in my toyota]

Tbh, i still think frostlass is a better lead spike stacker as well for one sole reason.....it gets taunt. one of the niches frosty has as well as being a spike stacker is its ability to taunt galvantula turn 1. given tht most teams frostlass is on are hyper offense teams which really hate sticky webs. (destiny bond and endeavor do kinda the same thing so im not to worried about tht) but tht is most definately why i would rather stick with frostlass as a spike stack lead

I disagree with like 50% of this. yeah froslass gets taunt which gives it a great niche as a spike lead, but Endeavor and Destiny Bond do NOT do the same thing by any means. endeavor is a, "im dying anyway" move, while destiny bond can be used to scare your opponent into not attacking, letting you set up another spike in many cases. not to mention, endeavor isnt even effective on ghosts, so that too. Bond >>>>> Endeavor

 

[Patrick1088]

Regarding Diggersby: Kind of mixed feelings tbh. Pretty borked and easy to spam, but I liked the bunny a lot. Perhaps one day it can grace its presence in UU and not completely flip the meta on its head....

Regarding Scolipede: This is going to be interesting to say the least. As we have seen in Poison/Bug types (Venomoth), typing is very useful in the current meta and lets it set up on numerous things. Hazards are a pain, but let's keep in mind how many Defoggers and Spinners in the tier, regardless of how effective it is at setting them up (Starmie, Donphan, Tentacruel, Crobat, Forrertress to just name a few). So, hazard-wise it's going to be tough, but could be manageable. Speed Boost in itself isn't broken just look at Combusken and Ninjask (give me a moment before you jump down my throat on these two). SD + Baton Pass can be seen in Mega Absol, Mienshao, etc..

Now, if you put all those traits together, you have a very formidable mon that is very tough to get through. It's Base 112 is so crucial against Infernape, Shao, Darmanitan, Hydreigon and countless others. Once it gets a +1, it's going to be outspeeding most of the meta easily. Bug/Poison attacks with psedo-EdgeQuake coverage lets it hit a majority of the tier. The question that will be on the plate is how are we going to judge Scolipede's potential brokenness? Is it a sweeper set with SD? Is is a guaranteed hazard layer? Is it QuickPass booster? The fact that it can run so many sets is very troubling and it can bypass any usual counters with BP. Mega Aggron would be a great stop to the SD set..

+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 316-372 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

But, BP to something that resists Steel could be Metagross...

+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 388-458 (112.7 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

or even to Mega Aggron itself...

Hazards/QuickPass could be taken care of by Sableye/Tornadus/Whimsi with Priority Taunt, but they can maimed if it's an LO attacking set. Almost all of them are outright KO'd by Scoli...

It's really tough to gauge what set Scoli is running. I think Scoli is more easier to use than say Venomoth, but it doesn't have to rely on the 50/50 that Wonderskin was attributed to. It's a tough mon to get through. I like Scolipede a lot, but I don't think UU can really handle this multi-role mon reliably.

But, we'll see how the retest goes....

 

[Sam]

I actually think Endeavor is better for Scoli because Endeavor basically guarantees that you are taking something down to 1 HP, while with Destiny Bond you have to play mind games a lot. Endeavor can still cause a lot of switches when your opponent doesn't want to sacrifice a specific mon.

 

[AM]

Got the luxury, if you can call it that, to watch this thing demolish earlier and I thought it would be nice to show this replay instead of the general theorymonning going on right now. Let's also consider the fact this is just coming off of one set that doesn't even touch upon its Baton Pass traits.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-184628093

Sorry King UU only decent replay I could find as my friend was the one playing and we were watching it all happen. I think the amount of pressure this puts on teams is a bit much judging from what I've seen and I really don't see how Scolipede would contribute towards a healthy meta.

 

[Kink]

Got the luxury, if you can call it that, to watch this thing demolish earlier and I thought it would be nice to show this replay instead of the general theorymonning going on right now. Let's also consider the fact this is just coming off of one set that doesn't even touch upon its Baton Pass traits.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-184628093

Sorry King UU only decent replay I could find as my friend was the one playing and we were watching it all happen. I think the amount of pressure this puts on teams is a bit much judging from what I've seen and I really don't see how Scolipede would contribute towards a healthy meta.

No need to apologize, I happen to agree with you.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Iron Defense + Baton Pass Scolipede and CM Suicune is a fucking killer core. Pass an Iron Defense to Suicune, and then let Suicune set up CM for days. At +2 Def and a variable amount of SpDef, it's pretty much unkillable. Furthermore, With the defensive boosts, Suicune can opt to safely drop Sleep Talk, meaning that it can run coverage moves such as Ice Beam, Extrasensory, etc.

 

[ohgeedubs]

Iron Defense + Baton Pass Scolipede and CM Suicune is a fucking killer core. Pass an Iron Defense to Suicune, and then let Suicune set up CM for days. At +2 Def and a variable amount of SpDef, it's pretty much unkillable. Furthermore, With the defensive boosts, Suicune can opt to safely drop Sleep Talk, meaning that it can run coverage moves such as Ice Beam, Extrasensory, etc.

Fast Roar to defeat phasers?

 

[glock in my toyota]

Remember when lochie said we could have this done by ORAS? Nice n' Tech Issues. I imagine we will just have a giant clusterfuck of things come the 21st, as we will have to deal with Scolipede, ORAS Megas, Move Tutor moves potentially breaking some mons, and new tiering in general. Showdown's downage has seriously fucked this whole plan up, and I am not looking forward to all this new shit were gonna have to deal with.

BRACE FOR ORAS

 

[Mazz]

Remember when lochie said we could have this done by ORAS? Nice n' Tech Issues. I imagine we will just have a giant clusterfuck of things come the 21st, as we will have to deal with Scolipede, ORAS Megas, Move Tutor moves potentially breaking some mons, and new tiering in general. Showdown's downage has seriously fucked this whole plan up, and I am not looking forward to all this new shit were gonna have to deal with.

BRACE FOR ORAS

What I've heard being tossed around is that the council can just keep Scolipede in BL and consider looking at it in ORAS once all of the other then-BL mons have gone through their testing. The simulator being down for the time being is yes, inconvenient, but shouldn't stop us dead in our tracks. The status of the last four suspects (Scolipede, Drought, Drizzle, and Shadow Tag) in UU is beyond apparent. They shouldn't require extensive testing.

 

[DiscoDucky]

What I've heard being tossed around is that the council can just keep Scolipede in BL and consider looking at it in ORAS once all of the other then-BL mons have gone through their testing. The simulator being down for the time being is yes, inconvenient, but shouldn't stop us dead in our tracks. The status of the last four suspects (Scolipede, Drought, Drizzle, and Shadow Tag) in UU is beyond apparent. They shouldn't require extensive testing.

Imo we should keep scolipede for ORAS so we can abuse scoli + sharpest to the max

 

[Patrick1088]

So now that the ladder is up and running again, i have some feedback on Scoli..

Bp + iron defense is very easy to spam. Just for lolz i tried Deniss team with Scoli in place of Smeargle and receivers in Cm two attack suicune and stored power espeon. The ease of which it can se t up is very easy. One could even run LO and SD over Sash and ID tbanks to screens/memento support.

The Scoli user will almost always have the upper hand over the non scoli user imo. Definitely unhealthy imo.


Oh and ORAS is out tomorrow woot woot :-) I bid thee farewell XY uu. You were a hot mess in the beginning (drizzle, Keldeo, Thundy T, Crawdaunt, etc..), but you ended up being onr of the best and most stable tiers.

Does the council know when the new ORAS changes will officially take place on the ladder? Any mons that are suspected of going straight to BL other than mega metagross at this time?

 

[Hogg]

Now that Showdown is back up I've been playing more with Spikes Scolipede, and it really is a beast. Yes, for the sole purpose of getting Spikes down and dying, Froslass is almost certainly better (although Froslass loses to Taunt + Knock Off Azelf, which I'm seeing a lot more right now). Scolipede, on the other hand, does a pretty good job at getting Spikes down and also has some pretty fantastic offensive presence on his own. Even without a Life Orb, Megahorn hits non-resists hard, and the threat of Endeavor is real. Scolipede can pretty reliably get a layer or three of spikes down and also serve as your answer to most Scarfers, stop Tailwind/Swift Swim sweeps, and revenge kill or sweep as well. I've been playing with it alongside Healing Wish Shaymin, who can bring it back with Sash intact, and it's pretty brutal.

Again, this is probably its least dangerous set, and it's still really good. This set on its own wouldn't be ban worthy, of course, but considering how deadly its 3 attacks + SD/Protect Life Orb set is, and how completely annoying any of its BP sets are, I think this thing should go.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Are we allowed to talk about the new mega's that can be used now?

 

[Machi]

Are we allowed to talk about the new mega's that can be used now?

They are now usable in Showdown ideally they should be since it already reflects on the simulator.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I've played against ~Volbeatdown~, and he was using mega-Gallade. Showdown's save replay is bugged, so I recorded it. I'll upload it later. Basically, I let Crobat, my only Mega-gallade "check" die stupidly (he crit it, shrugs). It got to +2, and destroyed my team. It OHKd Standard Suicine after Rocks, Specially Defensive Forretress, and 192hp Zygarde...in other words, it's pretty strong at +2. The only reason I won was because Mienshao's knock off kills at like -3. (ps don't cry about standard crobat).

After playing him, I knew that I could play with the new Megas. Diance is alright. I use it with sand (hippo) and use a -special defense nature since the sandstorm boost makes up for that...I think people forget that sometimes! It can set up on a lot of offensive teams, but it really does lack the power (+spa nature) to plow through fat teams. Though the use of diamond storm mitigates it and makes it an excellent mixed sweeper + defensive booster.

I just finished a game against dingbat, and I was testing out mega-bedrill. It didn't even make an appearance because his team was just full of threats (LO Starmie, CB(?)Champ, Mega-Absol. He got up SR, and with all the priority under his belt, there was no way beedril was gonna do anything.

So far, I've only had trouble with Mega-Gallade. I think Mega-Diance will probably be OU through usage, but I can definitely see Mega-beedril staying. It reminds of me a physical alakzam!

(i'll post links of replays when they are back up..and if not i'ma upload them anyways).