NU Analyses Discussion Thread

Oglemi

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#1
This thread is for any analyses that have already passed QC or are on site.

I've noticed in the other tiers that people have been commenting on threads that have already reached the DONE stage asking the OP to add a set or questioning the ones that are already there. This thread is to remedy this problem by allowing people to voice their concerns here, and then the QC team can look into the suggestion.

So, in other words, Do NOT post in a thread that is already past the QC stage asking for a set to be added or for a different EV spread to be the main one. Voice that concern here. Failure to do so may result in an infraction and a deletion of the post made. However, you are free to make suggestions about the slashing and the ordering of the sets in thread, and of course anything concerning the write-up including adding a counter, teammates, or including something in OO.

It should also be noted that making piddly "This analysis is awesome" posts should be avoided as they only necro old threads and clutter the sub-forum (however if the write-up is truly exceptional I obviously don't care if you congratulate and praise the writer, just avoid necroing long-dead threads).

Also, this thread will be for discussing analyses of Pokemon once they are on site.
 

Orcinus Duo

Banned deucer.
#2
So I'm not sure if this goes here but...

I would like for payback to be mentioned on Sawk, either in AC or slashed over reversal since rocks will pretty much always be up. Pretty simple, tbh, hammers psychic and ghost switchins for a ton of damage. I've used this to a great deal of success. Musharna, all those azelf look alikes, screw misdreavus etc

That's all.
 

tennisace

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#3
Payback doesn't do double damage if a Pokemon is switching in anymore, it has just as much BP as Stone Edge, and Sawk is too fast to be locked into it.
 

jake

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#4
So I'm not sure if this goes here but...

I would like for payback to be mentioned on Sawk, either in AC or slashed over reversal since rocks will pretty much always be up. Pretty simple, tbh, hammers psychic and ghost switchins for a ton of damage. I've used this to a great deal of success. Musharna, all those azelf look alikes, screw misdreavus etc

That's all.
sawk will almost always outspeed those pokemon, meaning that a neutral stone edge will do the same amount of damage (50 bp x 2 = 100).

CS jolly sawk's payback
vs standard musharna: 19.72% - 23.39%
vs standard misdreavus: 21.60% - 25.93%
vs 252/0 modest mesprit: 28.02% - 33.52%
CB jolly sawk's payback
vs musharna: 29.36% - 34.86%
vs misdreavus: 32.72% - 38.89%
vs mesprit: 42.31% - 50%

in all scenarios stone edge does essentially the same amount of damage


whereas the only pokemon payback would potentially hit double damage for are kadabra and haunter, who both get reamed by stone edge anyway.

edit: fuk u tennis i did calcs... for no reason
 
#5
dunno if this goes here, but I'd suggest changing Cryogonal's HP EVs from 252 to 248, since its health is otherwise divis. by four (344)
 

erisia

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#8
This is slightly embarassing, but on the Dragon Dance set for NU Whiscash, it should say it has 383 Atk after a boost, not 378 Atk. -_-
 

Molk

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#10
Chatot's set should look like this imo
[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Hyper Voice
move 3: Hidde Power Water
move 4: Encore / Heat Wave
item: Life Orb
ability: Tangled Feet
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Hidden power water hits everything grass does (except frillish) AND hits probopass and bastiodon as well, it also grants nearly perfect neutral coverage, outside of metang, there is no longer much of a point for heat wave cause klinklang moved up. the 4 spdef evs grant chatot and extra SR switch in
 

DTC

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#11
Kangaskhan

I'm really suprised Choice Band is not on here, CB Kangaskhan is very effective as it just hits really hard.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Double Edge
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Drain Punch
move 4: Sucker Punch / Frustration
item: Choice Band
ability: Scrappy
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Basically unless you see a Rock- or Steel-type you spam Double Edge and watch as things get KO'd. Here are some damage calcs to show how powerful CB Kangaskhan truly is:

252Atk Choice Band Scrappy Kangaskhan (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Musharna (+Def): 43% - 51% (189 - 223 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

252Atk Choice Band Scrappy Kangaskhan (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Amoonguss (+Def): 49% - 58% (213 - 252 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 17% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.

252Atk Choice Band Scrappy Kangaskhan (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Levitate Misdreavus (+Def): 48% - 56% (156 - 184 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 20% chance to 2HKO.

252Atk Choice Band Scrappy Kangaskhan (Neutral) Earthquake vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Sturdy Regirock (Neutral): 39% - 46% (144 - 170 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

252Atk Choice Band Scrappy Kangaskhan (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Levitate Weezing (+Def): 45% - 53% (151 - 178 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 10% chance to 2HKO.

252Atk Choice Band Scrappy Kangaskhan (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Unaware Quagsire (+Def): 47% - 56% (189 - 223 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 12% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.


Those are some of the most physically bulky Pokemon in the tier, and almost all of them Kangaskhan can 2HKO if they just take a little prior damage. It's a shame you can't beat Pokemon like Tangela or Regirock, but you can't have everything.

Also, the counters section should probably be more specific... as shown here, some of those "physical walls" don't counter Kangaskhan that well.
 

tennisace

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#12
You really need to run Adamant, as I did the first three calcs over and 2/3 (Amoonguss and Misdreavus) went to almost assured 2hkos. Other than that this seems like a really cool mon to try! Base 90 speed is sneaky fast in the meta, even without a Jolly nature you aren't missing out on too too much.
 
#15
In the Mightyena analysis, I think Return should be the third move, with Thunder/Fire Fang in the last slot. Return is Mightyena's second strongest competetively viable move, and provides pretty great coverage with Dark, only missing out on Steel-types. It's Mightyena's strongest option against opposing Darks and Fighting-types, and will do far more damate than one of the elemental fangs. It seems to have been missed completely, since itls not in OO either.

Edit: also i don't see how gurdurr is listed as a counter to arbok? If anything in my experience it's been the other way around
 

Oglemi

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Secret Boss Mod
#16
In the Mightyena analysis, I think Return should be the third move, with Thunder/Fire Fang in the last slot. Return is Mightyena's second strongest competetively viable move, and provides pretty great coverage with Dark, only missing out on Steel-types. It's Mightyena's strongest option against opposing Darks and Fighting-types, and will do far more damate than one of the elemental fangs. It seems to have been missed completely, since itls not in OO either.
I've fixed this
 

Molk

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#17
okay, we were joking about this silly set on irc, and i actually think it deserves an OO mention :)

mixed absol with fire blast and hidden power grass lures in absol's usual counters and nearly OHKOs them, allowing another teammate to sweep, you stillget the useful priority in sucker punch, making absol an excellent lure on teams that need it.

not saying it deserves a set in itself, but an OO mention would be nice

credit to tropiOUs for thinking of this set
 

erisia

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#19
With Contrary being released, doesn't Spinda deserve a normal analysis instead of a joke analysis?
I'd agree to this. It's not good in any sense, but it's definitely not a joke either. If you respond to it incorrectly, it DOES have a possibility of sweeping. Although even with a +1 to Defense it's still revenged by powerful neutral moves. The Superpower booster should be the only one that goes on site, obviously.
 

Molk

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#20
i also agree that spinda deserves at least a semi serious analysis, despite being checked by a lot of stuff such as quagsire, it still has the niche of being the only contrary mon currently released! i think the set would look like this.

[SET]
name: THE SUPER PANDA
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Return
move 4: Sucker Punch / Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Contrary
nature: Brave
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

spinda sets up trick room and spams attacks until it dies basically, toxic can be used if missy is annoying, also decent on a trick room team
 

tennisace

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#21
joke analyses are weird in that some are "jokier" than others. you're right in that spinda is semi-viable with contrary, but it's still spinda and its analysis will still make fun of it.
 

erisia

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#22
Yeah, it's fine taking the piss out of it so long as the best set isn't ignored and is evaluated effectively.
 
#23
I believe Rock Blast deserves a mention on Garbodor, if not in AC then at least in OO. I have used it extensively and found myself rarely using Body Slam, whilst Rock Blast allows him to stop Pokemon such as SubNP Jynx in their tracks. It also provides a much more accurate alternative to Gunk Shot for things like Swellow and Cryogonal.
 

DTC

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#24
Hey, I have a few suggestions for 3 of the current analyses in NU.

Duosion: Thunder should be mentioned in the AC of the first set, or at least OO. Thunder is a lot stronger than HP Fighting and allows you to get neutral coverage on both Dark and Psychic-types at the same time. It also has a 30% chance of paralysis, and a Pokemon needs about 400 Speed or more to outspeed Duosion after they're paralyzed. Only problem is the terrible accuracy, but Duosion can afford the occasional miss.

Slaking: Retaliate should be moved to the last slot. Yeah, you will only use this after something dies, however, that extra power is really useful for threats such as Tangela and Weezing. The moves currently in the last slot, Focus Punch and Pursuit, are moves you'd rarely ever use on Slaking. Focus Punch is nice for hitting Regirock, but you still don't OHKO 252 HP Regirock. There are barely any Ghost-types in NU to hit with Pursuit, and you'd usually want to just hit the switch-in hard, however Pursuit does have its moments where it is useful as it can still trap weakened Pokemon... although if you have a weakened Pokemon you'd probably just want to sac it to Slaking. Pursuit could maybe get a slash in with Retaliate.

The checks and counters section in Slaking could use some work too. 1) it should probably mention Armaldo. Armaldo resists Slaking's STAB and also doesn't take that much from Earthquake. 2) It mentions Tangela healing with Synthesis -- the Tangela analysis doesn't even list Synthesis. (However, it should; it's still not one of the best options you can run on Tangela, though.) 3) Maybe have a mention of saccing something to Slaking and then abusing its Traunt turn by setting-up?

Tangela: Synthesis in OO? It's not the best option, as Tangela already has Regenerator, but it makes it even harder to kill and with Synthesis it doesn't have to switch-out every time it's at low health.
 

Molk

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#25
DTC, about tangela, you actually have to choose between synthesis and regenerator, they are not allowed together on the same set sadly :(, i feel tangela NEEDS regenerator to be effective and that synthesis is not worth it 99% of the time

but i second the above changes otherwise