1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

NU Analyses Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Archives' started by Oglemi, Dec 10, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    Oh man, I never realized that! My apologies. I guess the Synthesis Tangela part should just be removed altogether from the Checks and Counters section of Slaking.
  2. Keiran

    Keiran

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    449
    Ctrl+F "Giga Drain" on Victreebel's analysis yields no result anywhere on the page. I think Giga Drain deserves a slash next to (or before) Solarbeam on the Special Growth set or at least AC mention. The recovered health has been way more useful to me then the power Solarbeam provides, and has aloud me to sweep later on in the game. (It also works outside of sun which has been useful too)
  3. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,378
    Done.

    Did those, sans Synthesis.

    Changed that mention to Regenerator.

    Added into AC.

    If anyone else has some small changes they need to make to an analysis, go ahead and post here!
  4. Scythemantis

    Scythemantis

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Messages:
    44
    Speaking of Garbodor, what was wrong with its old, optimistic analysis? I don't read the strategy dex to hear how hard something sucks and that i'd be stupid to use it in any tier I want. I just want to know the best things it can do. Even if that isn't much, is "MAN WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP" type commentary necessary? Anything can fit on *some* team.
  5. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Agreed. Reading the analysis actually infuriated me a little... partly because of its attitude, and partly because it just gets a lot of stuff wrong. Poison is a pretty good mono-typing in NU because it stops most Fighting types cold, deals with Grass types reasonably well, and STAB Gunk Shot is nothing to laugh it with its excellent power and neutral coverage. Garbodor also has pretty damn good physical bulk with max investment, Adamant Torterra comes nowhere near to OHKOing it with Earthquake without a Life Orb and has a good chance to fail even with one, while Regirock can't even 2HKO with Earthquake. Hell, it even takes special attacks well, surviving LO Magmortar's Fire Blast.

    Frankly, I feel like updating it solely to re-write it. We shouldn't have pretentious stuff like that on-site, especially when it's badmouthing the best Toxic Spiker in the tier (aside from Omanyte, of course)
  6. Scythemantis

    Scythemantis

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Messages:
    44
    Articles for NU pokemon should be written from the perspective that NU is just another tier, which it is. Some seem to be painting it as a shameful dumping ground nobody wants to play.
  7. marilli

    marilli
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    895
    For Shelgon, I feel that DD RestTalk set is the better set of the two. Not only does it maintain similar physical bulk, it can now get rid of status + pose an offensive threat. Even with no investment attack, it can rip through the tier after some boosts (and those defensive enough are often setup bait) bar Tangela + Quagsire. Wish+Protect has really small wishes, so that's not much of a plus, either. Toxic hits Tangela and Quagsire, but really the defensive set doesn't even necessarily draw them out, as uninvested Dragon Claw is kind of silly.

    Also, I know it has no technical bearing on the issue, but UU and RU both has DD RestTalk over the defensive wish set.

    I know there's a lot of updates going on, but I feel that this is just a minor issue that doesn't really deserve a full revamp (and also I don't like how it says Probopass beats DD RestTalk when the only thing it does is give it an automatic +6 +6 setup and it can just start outraging without lock-in, but that's easily fixed.)
  8. steviestar

    steviestar

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    200
    Speaking of Shelgon, its analysis mentions that it will never beat Bastidon or Probopass which isn't true at all. Probopass can't do a damn thing (unless it gets really, really lucky with earth power special defense drops) to Shelgon while Shelgon sets up to +6 and 2HKOs it. Bastidon fares better because of roar but in a 1v1 situation Shelgon will win because Bastiodon can't directly harm it at all.
  9. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,613
    For Muk, since there is an analysis already on site, can I base the framework around that? Or rwould you like me to start from scratch?
  10. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,378
    The idea of doing analyses now is that they're being updated; ideally, you will have similar sets but anything outdated or outclassed will be removed, and any new, good sets will be added. If you want, I can go through and point out a few things later but yeah, it should be focusing on updating Muk to this metagame's standards.

    As far as Shelgon goes, I'll look into that later today.
  11. FishmanDerp

    FishmanDerp

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    For Castform's entry, shouldn't Thunder be slashed over Thunderbolt, because it hits a lot harder than the latter, and in rain, it has perfect accuracy?

    Also, I think the items Damp Rock and Heat Rock should be mentioned as other options.

    [Oh, and yes, I know that Castform's entry is joke-ish in nature; I just see some room for improvement... and I apologise if this means that changing it isn't an option, therefore wasting your time.]
  12. metprime1

    metprime1

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Personally, I think sawk should use Poison Jab instead of Toxic cause if Stealth Rocks are up, it would break sturdy and I don't like to switch out most of the time. :O
  13. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,705
    How would using Toxic break Sturdy and Poison Jab not? Your reasoning is a bit confusing. Anyways, Poison Jab is also an awful move to spam so you'll end up switching out most of the time anyways. All Poison Jab really hits is Exeggutor while Toxic hits a bunch of more Pokemon that Sawk can't do much damage to.

    Poison Jab is also outclassed by Sawk's new tutor move, Ice Punch. Ice Punch allows Sawk to hit Amoonguss, Vileplume, Exeggutor, Golurk, and a few other Pokemon harder than any of Close Combat / EQ / Stone Edge.
  14. Progeusz

    Progeusz

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    There's a mistake in Sneasel's NU analysis Other Options.
    Bite has 180 bp vs Psychics while X-Scissor has 160 factoring in type effectiveness and STAB.
    If anything, X-Scissor does MUCH less than Bite vs Natu and Swoobat, and only hits Exeggutor harder.
  15. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    518
    Golbat's analysis has a minor error:

    Cross Poison is surprisingly not a move that Golbat ever learns (however, Crobat does). I'm sure nobody will ever really try to use a physically attacking Golbat, but if somebody wanted to they'd be disappointed to find one of its best-looking moves to be illegal.
  16. TLCJR4LIFE

    TLCJR4LIFE

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    193
  17. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,378
    All fixed.
  18. Progeusz

    Progeusz

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    Something doesn't feel right.
  19. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,819
    Well, small (read: shallow) movepool does not necessarily imply bad coverage. Something can have perfect coverage with 2 moves, and still have a bad movepool. In Samurotts case, it gets all the coverage it needs with just 2 moves, and can get almost perfect coverage with 3 moves on a special set. However, outside these options it has basically nothing, leading to the shallow movepool comment. I think it makes sense, but it could probably be worded slightly better.
  20. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    I don't understand why Watchog is a 'joke' Pokemon, sure he isn't too good, but it should at least be given a normal analysis. Watchog could be a decent stall breaker with Super Fang, Hypnosis, Mean Look, Baton Pass, and other helpful moves (I'm at work atm and not looking at the other moves).
  21. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,378
    It has generally awful stats and there's no real reason to use it on a semi-competitive team aside from troll factor. It has no strong niche and isn't even worth your time when debating whether or not to even waste a team slot on it. Every Pokemon on the 'joke' list has a usable set or two or even a possible niche all to its own, but there's still no reason anyone should ever use it and that's why we give them joke analyses. I can't think of a single Pokemon outside of that list that I'd rather use Watchog instead of.
  22. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,613
    Sap Sipper Defensive Miltank? I'm not sure how many QC members have seen this thing, but it's pretty freaking awesome in the metagame right now (fuck Cincinno / Ammonguss)

    This is the set I would use:

    Miltank w/ Leftovers
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    -Body Slam
    -Earthquake / Toxic
    -Milk Drink
    -Heal Bell

    Given the plethora of Ammonguss and Cincinno right now, this is pretty much one of the best counters to both. Tail Slap fails to 2HKO, and if Cincinno goes for Bullet Seed, then it pretty much gives Miltank +5 attack, which means it's going to fuck something over with either Body Slam or Earthquake. I chose Earthquake in the second slot for neutral coverage, but Toxic works too.

    Thoughts?
  23. MMF

    MMF Give me the strength to part this sea

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2010
    Messages:
    538
    I was almost positive that Bullet Seed only gives Sap Sipper users +1 Attack and not +5. Can anyone confirm this?

    Other than that I've played against this set quite a bit and its annoying as all hell. Its also suprisingly bulky and tanked hits that I didn't think it could tank. What does everyone else think?

    Edit: Ah so it is just one. Well even so, a boost is a boost. Even at +1 Miltank still hits decently hard for a bulkier set.
  24. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,613
  25. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Messages:
    463
    Just wondering, but shouldn't Klang be in the NU secion now instead of the NFE section? If it should be in the NFE section, could someone kindly give an explanation why? Thanks.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)