NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

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NeverUsed Discussion


Welcome to the NU Discussion Thread (mark II). NU stands for NeverUsed, and is the tier below UU - for literally, the Pokémon who are never used. This thread is for discussing that tier. Note NFE Pokémon are allowed in NU (barring those who's usage made them UU).

Here is a link to the NU tier: http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/nu
Here is a link to the NFE tier: http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/nfe

A few rules:
  • First of all, let me say that there is likely to be a tier placed between UU and NU. This is not confirmed yet, and after this post there is to be no more discussion of this tier.
  • Please remember to keep the intelligence level within your posts to a high. Don't just say - back up your facts with hard facts.
  • This thread is NU discussion. Not for OU / UU, thanks.

There is currently a ladder running just to support the "unofficial" NU tier on the CAP server.

We have plenty of resources below to help newcomers take part in the NU tier. Feel free to comment!
 
Threat List

This threat list has been designed to help newer members know what Pokémon can do what in the NU tier, and what their options are.

Credit to the Alchemator and Random Pizzaman for providing me a base Threat List which I could tweak slightly and add stuff to. Good job guys!

Offensive Threats

Medicham -
Since its introduction in Advance, Medicham has been the epitome of 'glass cannon'. However, despite its incredible power, its frail defenses and middling Speed left it to the NU tier. However, in this environment Medicham shines, 2HKOing the majority of the tier with its high coverage moves, courtesy of its ability Pure Power (which doubles its Attack).

Leafeon -
The Grass 'Eeveelution', Leafeon was almost neglected from day one due to its pure Grass typing, creating many weaknesses. However, in the NU tier its fantastic Defense and above average Attack makes it a potent Swords Dance sweeper. However, it's small attacking movepool lets it down, generally using its STAB Leaf Blade and the unSTABed Return.

Glaceon -
NU players run often hail teams, and there are two huge reasons reasons: Stallrein and Scarf Glaceon. With a Choice Scarf around its neck, Glaceon outruns much of the tier and OHKOes a lot with a 100% accurate STAB Blizzard which provides fantastic neutral coverage. Its base 130 Special Attack is nothing to scoff at.

Flareon -
Flareon can still tear holes in the usually frail NU teams with high powered moves such as Fire Blast and Return, with additional moves such as Hidden Power Grass providing coverage. It can also be a fantastic support pokemon with it's above average Special Defense. Wish is often used on defensive sets to help support the team. Flareon also has Will-O-Wisp in its arsenal.

Relicanth -
A Pokémon with base 90 Attack and a STAB move at 150 Base power with no recoil is always going to be scary! If given the chance, a Choice Band Relicanth's Head Smash will do damage to almost everything. A second useful STAB in Waterfall makes Relicanth a potent, albeit relatively slow, threat.

Ursaring -
With the introduction of Swellow in Advance, Ursaring was then seen as the inferior Guts Abuser in a fast-paced metagame due to its low Speed. However, the Speed tiers in NU are considerably lower so be prepared for the bear's rampant rampage! Ursaring can also use Quick Feet, on top of moves such as Swords Dance, STAB Return, Earthquake, and Fire Punch.

Persian -
A good lead courtesy of a STAB Technician Fake Out, as well as a strong Return. Persian also has U-turn to help scout, and is drew third for the fastest Pokémon in the tier.

Drifblim -
Drifblim is a huge special threat in NU, especially because it can run a variety of sets such as 'Calm Mind Sub' and 'ChestoRest' which both make use of its unique ability 'Unburden' - making it all the more dangerous. Shadow Ball is often paired with Hidden Power Fighting, giving perfect neutral coverage.

Poliwrath -
Poliwrath's ability Water Absorb gives it a good immunity (in fact, it gains HP) when it comes to take Water-type attacks, helping against rare Rain Dance teams. Belly Drum boosts Poliwrath's Attack to astronomical levels, and it gets good coverage with its Fighting / Water-type attacks. Bulk Up also makes Poliwrath a threat, especially to more physically orientated teams.

Linoone -
Linoone is almost the same of Poliwrath in the sense of Belly Drumming, however it has access to STAB on the most powerful priority move in the game - ExtremeSpeed. Shadow Claw stops Ghost-types like Dusclops. Seed Bomb is Linoone's best attack against Probopass and Aggron, even if it isn't super effective.

Rhydon -
Rock Polish with a base 130 Attack immediately makes Rhydon a huge threat; doubled by amazing Ground- and Rock-type STABs (Earthquake & Stone Edge). Choice Band Rhydon holds incredible power.

Armaldo -
Armaldo is mainly a threat for two reasons; Swords Dance and Rock Polish. These two boosting moves allow it to utilize its 383 Attack stat, often paired with Life Orb for more damage. STAB X-Scissor is great with 100% accuracy, with Stone Edge to back it up.

Skuntank -
Skuntank is a strong threat, it can be incredibly unpredictable with STAB on Sucker Punch and access to Explosion. It's comparatively good Speed also lets it make use of Taunt, an incredibly useful move in NU due to most of the metagame needing to set up to cause serious damage.

Floatzel -
Floatzel is the undoubtedly best physical rain sweeper in NU, and some go as far to say that it is the best physical sweeper full stop. In the rain Floatzel outruns almost all of the tier, striking with boosted Waterfalls and those that it can't outspeed can easily be taken down by Aqua Jet. Even without rain support Floatzel still poses a threat thanks to Bulk Up and a base 105 Attack (on top of base 115 Speed).

Hitmonchan -
Hitmonchan never had the offensive stats of Hitmonlee, nor the utility of Hitmontop. However in NU it carries one of the most powerful attacks: Focus Punch with an Iron Fist maims anything which is not a Ghost-type - including pokemon that resist it (however 4x resisting pokemon still shrug it off). It also makes a potent revenge killer with Mach Punch. On top of this, it has access to Bulk Up, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, and Fire Punch.

Slaking -
Base 160 attack and above average Speed means something is going to get hurt. Often used with Choice Band to make it even more potent, Slaking has a huge STAB Return which he can fire off. Pair that with a Shadow Claw to help hit Ghost-types, and you have to hope you predict correctly. However, Slaking's ability - Truant - often means he is left in a weak position.

Wailord -
Water Spout, supposedly Kyogre's signature move, is also available to no other Pokémon barring Smeargle (on top of Wailord & Kyogre). Despite its mediocre Special Attack Stat, Wailord still throws out hurt to anything that doesn't resist Water Spout. It is even more deadly under Trick Room where it does not have to worry about its low Speed. Wailord is also quite bulky and has access to Selfdestruct.

Entei -
A lacking physical STAB means Entei is left with Fire Fang, so its not fully able to use that strong Attack stat. However, Entei does have access to Calm Mind, Fire Blast, and even Eruption, which makes it a solid threat to less-defensive teams.

Venomoth -
Venomoth is definitely one of the top special attackers in NU due to its incredible ability shared only with Yanmega: Tinted Lens. This makes many of its 'counters' cry out in pain when they realise they are still being hit neutrally with an often boosted STAB Bug Buzz. It's good Speed helps to wreak havoc.

Exeggutor -
Boasting a Special Attack stat greater than that of Salamence's, Exeggutor is strong. Although it is slow, clever prediction ensures that something is going to get hurt by a Specs Leaf Storm, really hurt. Sunny Day and SolarBeam will also pain a lot of Pokémon, as will Wood Hammers, Zen Headbutts, and Explosions. Exeggutor also has Sleep Powder to help maim its targets.

Gardevoir -
Gardevoir is a newer addition to the tier. Despite its average Speed, Gardevoir is still a massive threat with base 125 Special Attack and base 115 Special Defense. Calm Mind boosts those two stats even further, allowing it to fire off high-powered Psychics. It also has access to Will-O-Wisp to burn the mainly physical metagame.

Ninetales
- With access to Nasty Plot, Ninetales can boost its Special Attack to obscene levels and its base 100 Speed is not-too-shabby either. In addition to this, what it cannot take out it can potentially put to sleep with Hypnosis. Energy Ball helps against bulky Water-types, and Flash Fire gives its Fire Blasts a boost.

Jynx -
After being OU for the first two generations, and then BL in Advance, Jynx could not keep up with the fast-paced metagame of the fourth generation and has so dropped to NU. However, Jynx is no pushover with its double STABs providing fantastic neutral coverage and offensive stats further increasing its usefulness. Lovely Kiss helps buy free turns for Jynx to set up its Calm Minds or Substitutes, and is arguably the reason to use it over Glaceon (although Jynx has a much better base 95 Speed).

Dodrio -
Dodrio is often underestimated in comparison to its Normal- / Flying- type counterparts, such as Staraptor. However, it can be ridiculously dangerous, and with access to Brave Bird, it can put a world of hurt on the plethora of Bug-typess and Flail may decimates any opposition without a resistance if played correctly.

Pinsir -
Pinsir has always been seen as an inferior Heracross, however its trait distinguishes it. Mold Breaker takes care of those pesky Levitators, allowing for an almost prediction free late-game clean-up. A STAB X-Scissor is hardly weak, too.

Tauros -
The King of OU in R/B/Y is back to hurt NU with STAB Return. With fantastic Attack and Speed, any team not prepared for Tauros will be swept, regardless of boosts. Intimidate is handy in all sorts of situations, allowing Tauros to actually take a hit or two.

Manectric -
With high Speed, great Special Attack, and an amazing movepool, Manectric is the most unpredictable pokemon in NU. It can run Substitute sets to avoid status, Life Orb sets for fantastic coverage and is equally good at utilising Choice sets.

Primeape -
The fastest Fighting-type in the tier, who has unique access to U-Turn and Punishment along with Close Combat. Its good Attack stat makes it great user of Choice Scarf and Choice Band.

Kingler -
Kingler is a great all round Pokémon on the physical side. Great Attack, and good Defense. Kingler's base 75 Speed and base 50 Special Defense are a bit of a letdown, but Crabhammer is insanely strong from Kingler's Attack stat - let alone if it gets a Swords Dance. Kingler may also use Return, Rock Slide, or X-Scissor.

Haunter -
Similar to it's evolution (Gengar), Haunter is a fast, powerful special sweeper. Although it looses out on Focus Blast, it still makes for a good sweeper, and is one of the few offensive Ghost-types in the tier, creating a niche for itself.

Rampardos -
Like Medicham, a pure glass cannon. Paper defenses and Groudon-level attack stat. Attach a Scarf, pass some Speed, set up Trick Room or even Rock Polish, and be prepared to damage something at least. Rock-type STAB helps deal damage via a strong Stone Edge.

Marowak -
Marowak has always been known for it's colossal Attack stat via Thick Club, and the weaker defenses in NU lets it really break bones. A STAB Earthquake dents just about everything, and Marowak has a myriad of other moves to pair with it; Fire Punch, Rock Slide, and Double-Edge, to name a few.

Cacturne -
While constant sandstorm is hard to come up on in NU, letting Cacturne get behind a Substitute or get a Swords Dance in is a very bad idea. STAB Sucker Punch and Seed Bomb is threatening, let alone after a Swords Dance. It also has access to Dark Pulse and Grass Knot and can use its good Special Attack. Being one of the few Spikers in NU isn't a bad thing, either.

Magneton -
Another pre-evolution of an OU Pokemon, Magneton is as adept at trapping Steel-types as Aggron (provided it is played correctly), opening up a sweep for a slew of Pokémon walled eternally by by Aggron and friends such as Swellow. Its base 125 Special Attack along with great Electric-type STAB is pretty useful too.

Camerupt -
Suffering from the same high Attack, low Speed syndrome as Marowak & company, Camperupt works best in Trick Rom swith excellent STAB and Explosion. Camerupt's good Special Attack means it can even run mixed with its two STABs, using Fire Blast and Earthquake.

Rapidash -
Sporting the highest Speed of all the Fire-types, along with the unique Megahorn and good attacking stats, Rapidash can plow it's way through the most common special walls in NU and is an underestimated threat. Hypnosis helps ease prediction.

Kangaskhan -
A very subtle offensive force, Kangaskhan has the rare Scrappy and makes a really good Sub Puncher, something Tauros doesn't beat it at. Hitting Ghost-types with STAB attacks isn't all it can do - it's able to utilize Wish.

Gorebyss -
The only good remaining special rain sweeper, it'll plow through most things in the rain, courtesy of a strong STAB Surf, with Ice Beam to back it up. It can also Speed itself up with Agility and Baton Pass it if one does not want to use rain.

Lickilicky -
The only thing you need to know about Lickilicky is that it has good attacking stats, a huge movepool, and STAB Explosion to kill everything not named Aggron, Bastiodon, or Probopass (or anything that is a Ghost-type). Wish helps it heal, and its good special movepool includes Ice Beam and Fire Blast.

Octillery -
It has great dual 105 attacking stats, and Suction Cups makes it one of, if not the, best Baton Pass receivers in NU. An incredible movepool includes Charge Beam, Flamethrower, Surf, Waterfall, and Energy Ball.

Sharpedo -
While it has paper defenses, it also has good Speed and a great base 120 Attack along with 95 Special Attack stat makes it quite a powerful mixed sweeper. Dual STAB in Dark and Water-type attacks helps it even more, boosting its Crunch, Waterfall, and Surf.

Zangoose -
With Swords Dance it becomes NU's own little mini-Lucario, but with a better Attack stat yet a weaker Quick attack for priority. Shadow Claw helps Zangoose deal with Ghost-types, outspeeding through his high base 90 Speed.

Regigigas -
Regigigas's unique ability really hampers its ability offensively, but if one can bypass 5 turns with Regigigas in play it can use that base 160 Atk and base 100 Spe to cause huge trouble via a STAB Return. Regigigas also has Stone Edge, Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, and Ice Punch. Substitute, Confuse Ray, and Thunder Wave may help Regigigas get past the 5 turn barrier.


Defensive Threats

Dusclops -
In a similar vein to Rhydon, Dusclops obtained an evolution this generation. However, the only major difference is the Attack stat still meaning that Dusclops can function well as a wall - almost too well. His Rapid Spin blocking ability is almost unrivalled, and can use Will-O-Wisp to help see off physical attackers.

Sandslash -
With access to Rapid Spin and great defensive stats, it is almost possible to say that Sandslash is the best Rapid Spinner in NU. The main part that distinguishes it from Cloyster is its resistance to Rock, a common attacking type in NU. Sandslash also has Stealth Rock in his utility.

Regice -
The advent of Stealth Rock and other powerful moves such as Stone Edge and Close Combat means that Regice could not retain its status and so it dropped to NU. However, it is still a fantastic special wall with that incredible base 200 Special Defense. Rest + Sleep Talk is its best way of recovery, with a STAB Ice Beam to boot. Other attacking options include Seismic Toss, Thunderbolt, and Charge Beam.

Grumpig -
Grumpig is an incredible special wall with Thick Fat and amazing base stats overall. However, it is generally ditched for Hypno but still has its own niche with the added resistance to Fire- and Ice-type attacks. Grumpig is also much faster and has a higher Special Attack stat.

Hypno -
Hypno can even stand up to Drifblim and Venomoth while easily walling Manectric and other special attackers. Hypno has Wish to help heal itself, and Insomnia means it cannot be put to sleep.

Gardevoir -
Although Gardevoir can be a potent offensive threat, its access to Will-O-Wisp and fantastic base Special Defense make it a viable wall too. Wish also helps Gardevoir heal itself.

Vileplume -
Vileplume's typing allows it to immediately absorb Toxic Spikes, an obvious plus against teams containing Venomoth. Aromatherapy heals teammates from status, and Leech Seed helps stall with Synthesis, or can be used to aid teammates HP.

Aggron -
Aggron is the ultimate Linoone counter. A x4 Normal resist means that Linoone will be forced into using Rock Smash which can be Metal Bursted back or Seed Bomb which is at best a 3HKO. Aggron also learns Roar & Stealth Rock.

Bastiodon
- Bastiodon has a fantastic support movepool including Stealth Rock, Roar, and Toxic. Bastiodon also has the stats which help overcome its x4 Fighting- and Ground-types weaknesses.

Walrein -
Despite turning into an amazing staller when paired with Snover (which provides hail), Walrein has the defenses to survive just fine in NU without hail. 110 / 90 / 90 defenses are definitely viable, even though it is weak to Stealth Rock.

Shuckle -
With Hippopotas, Shuckle becomes extremely hard to take down on the special side. Shuckle can use Encore to help teammates set up, while also being able to use Stealth Rock and Toxic. However, weakness to Stealth Rock really hampers Shuckle, on top of it being dead way a lot of the time.

Gligar -
Despite having stats outclassed by other NU physical walls, Gligar holds its niche with a plethora of useful resistances. A resistance to Bug, immunity to Ground and neutrality to Rock combined with a great base 105 defense make Gligar a great physical wall - and it has Roost for reliable recovery. It also outspeeds many Pokémon allowing for its STAB Earthquake to cause a bit of hurt. Gligar also learns Stealth Rock, and can use Baton Pass in conjunction with Swords Dance / Rock Polish.

Probopass -
Probopass, stat-wise, is the ultimate mixed wall in NU. Its Steel / Rock typing can actually sometimes be a benefit: a x4 resistance to Normal is the ridiculously useful. Although the x4 weaknesses to Ground and Fighting do hold it back Probopass should not be underestimated, especially as is able to trap fellow Steel-types and use Magnet Rise. Probopass also learns Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, and Explosion.

Ampharos -
Ampharos has solid defensive stats and a useful supporting movepool which includes Reflect, Light Screen, Thunder Wave, and Heal Bell. Ampharos also has a solid STAB attack in Thunderbolt (coming from a base 115 SpA stat, too).

Cloyster -
The second highest Defense stat in NU, without Aggron's unfortunate typing, and it's the most reliable Spiker in NU along with Rapid Spin support for the many Stealth Rock weak Pokemon in NU. However, it is weak to Close Combat and Stone Edge, two common physical attacks, which lessens its ability to come in. It is also weak to Stealth Rock itself, so it may be annoying to come in and Rapid Spin, while losing 25%!

Leafeon -
While it works well as an attacker, it may be even better as a physical wall with a huge 130 Defense and moves like Yawn, Baton Pass, Roar and the amazing Wish.

Articuno -
Like the other legendary birds, Articuno works well as a defensive Pokemon, and has the best defensive stats of the three, only let down by it's poor typing. If you can keep Stealth Rock off the field, Articuno can be a great shuffler via Roar, as well as being able to use Heal Bell.

Muk -
It's great HP and Special Defense make it a great special sponge, allowing Muk to Curse up to cause some damage.

Quagsire -
Water Absorb means it gains health if it comes in on Surf or Waterfall - also being immune to Thunderbolt courtesy of its Ground-typing. Quagsire has Yawn, Haze, and Curse, three very useful moves that allow it to annoy the opponent.

Gastrodon -
The same typing as Quagsire, but without the Water-type immunity. Gastrodon does have Recover, though. Gastrodon is also able to use Curse, or even Counter / Mirror Coat.

Slowking -
Slowking takes on Fire-, Ice-, Psychic-, and Water-type attacks like a champ, and can use Slack Off to restore HP. It can also go on the offensive with Nasty Plot / Slack Off.

Mantine -
Mantine's gargantuan Special Defense helps it come in on many of the Fire-types in NU. Mantine can utilize Rest and Sleep Talk to help restore HP, alternatively there it Protect which helps restore HP via Leftovers (often paired with Toxic). Mantine also has a STAB Surf, but is weak to Stealth Rock.

Munchlax -
With a whopping 135 base HP and a decent 85 base Special Defense, Munchlax has plenty of durability on the special side in NU. Thick Fat is what helps to distinguish it from Lickilicky, allowing it to wall a number of threatening special attackers in the tier, including Entei, Ninetales, Jynx, and Glaceon. With its pathetic 5 base Speed, it can also serve as a counter / check to various Trick Room threats such as Camerupt, Clamperl and Slowking. Munchlax is no slouch in the offensive department either. STAB Return off 85 base Attack is very respectable in NU, plus with Curse and a wide physical movepool at its disposal, Munchlax can be a very lethal late game sweeper, especially in a last Pokémon situation, where the opponent is unable to Whirlwind or Roar it away.



Other Threats

Butterfree -
With a 97.5% accurate Sleep Powder, Butterfree can almost always put something to sleep. Butterfree also has Stun Spore so it can really frustrate the opponent, as well as access to Tailwind.

Xatu -
Xatu has an excellent support movepool. Wish, Light Screen, Reflect, Thunder Wave, Trick Room, and U-turn can all help support the team while Xatu helps itself with Roost.

Solrock -
Can set up Trick Room and Stealth Rock, followed be an Explosion. It also has Will-O-Wisp and can Baton Pass Calm Minds to teammates.

Bibarel -
Bibarel can do a lot of things. Stealth Rock and Taunt makes it a reliable lead. Its abilities help it perfect many roles; a Curser, a Baton Pass reciever, or a counter to Pokémon that need boosts to be threatening (Lapras, Drifblim, etc). Bibarel is also one of the few reliable answers to SubCM Entei.

Jumpluff -
Sleep Powder, Encore, Leech Seed, and Substitute means Jumpluff is an annoyer and a half. Jumpluff's good Speed stat helps it stop stat-uppers from doing their thing via a quick Sleep Powder, from where it can proceed to set up.

Snover -
Snover is the only Pokémon in NU able to create infinite hail, and it is automatic. This allows it to support teammates who are now able to fire off Blizzards at 100% accuracy. It also helps turn Walrein into "StallRein", a well-known Pokémon that is able to cause havoc in hail. Snover has a few interesting options. Leech Seed can help teammates, and can work with Substitute. Otherwise notable moves include Icy Wind and Ice Shard, both of which have their unique nichés.

Hippopotas -
Hippopotas is the only Pokémon in NU able to create infinite sandstorm, and it is automatic. This allows it to support Rock-types, who's Special Defense gets a x1.5 boost in the sandstorm. This allows Pokémon such as Shuckle to be even more annoying to the opponent. Hippopotas can learn Stealth Rock, Yawn, Slack Off, and Roar, which helps it support its teammates even more.
 
Speed Tiers

Credit to starcrusher, who did these Speed Tiers!

Key
Green is the color of Speed EVs.
Blue however represents a + Speed nature along with EVs.
Gray signifies no additional Speed aside from IVs.
Red is used to indicate boosts.

S - Class Speeds (450+)
700 : +2 (sun) +Nature/252 Jumpluff
540 : +2 (rain) 16 Floatzel
518 : +2 (sun) 252 Shiftry
500 : +2 (rain) 128 Lumineon
470 : +2 (rain) 252 Seaking
460 : +2 (rain) 0 Luvdisc

A - Class Speeds (400 - 400)
448 : +1 (Scarf) 252 Entei, Dodrio (100)
436 : +2 (Unburdened) 88 Drifblim
430 : +2 (Rock Polish) 252 Rampardos
426 : +1 (Scarf) +Nature/252 Medicham
420 : +2 (Agility) 88 Hitmonchan / +2 (Sun) 136 Victreebell
418 : +2 (Rain, Rock Polish) 252 Relicanth, +2 (Sun) 252 Exeggutor
412 : +2 (sunlight) 0 Cherrim
406 : +2 (rain) 252 Gorebyss / Huntail
405 : +1 (Scarf) 136 Slaking / Salac Boost 136 Linoone
402 : +2 (sun) 252 Tropius

B - Class Speeds (400 - 300)
398 : +2 (sun) 252 Bellossom / Vileplume
388 : +1 (Scarf) 252 Medicham
376 : +1 (Scarf) 252 Hitmonchan
361 : +Nature/252 Base 115's (Persian, Floatzel, Sneasel)
355 : +Nature/252 Base 112's (Purugly)
351 : +1 (Scarf) +Nature/228 Wailord
350 : +Nature/252 Base 110's (Jumpluff, Tauros)
348 : +2 (sun) +Nature/252 Sunflora
343 : +1 (Scarf / Quick Feet) +Nature/252 Ursaring
339 : +Nature/252 Base 105's (Lopunny, Manectric, Rapidash, Electabuzz, Kadabra)
328 : +Nature/252 Base 100's (Dodrio, Entei, Fearow, Linoone, Ninetales, Raichu, Slaking)
322 : +Nature/252 Base 97's (Luvdisc, Raticate)
318 : +1 (Dragon Dance) 224 Lapras
317 : +Nature/252 Base 95's (Jynx, Leafeon, Plusle, Minun, Pachirisu, Primeape, Sharpedo, Xatu, Haunter)
313 : +Nature/252 Base 93's (Magmar)
309 : +Nature/252 Base 91's (Chatot, Lumineon, Pidgeot)
306 : +Nature/252 Base 90's (Furret, Kangaskhan, Mr. Mime, Pikachu, Venomoth, Vigoroth, Zangoose, Golbat)

C - Class Speeds (300 - 200)
295 : +Nature/252 Base 85's (Articuno, Cherrim, Girafarig, Golduck, Illumise, Volbeat, Ledian, Pinsir, Qwilfish, Stantler, Gligar)
293 : +Nature/252 Base 84's (Skuntank)
289 : +Nature/252 Base 82's (Gabite)
287 : +Nature/252 Base 81's (Monferno)
284 : +Nature/252 Base 80's (Arbok, Drifblim, Gardevoir, Glalie, Grumpig, Medicham, Meganium, Phione, Shiftry)
276 : +Nature/252 Base 76's (Hitmonchan)
273 : +Nature/252 Base 75's (Beedrill, Delibird, Kingler)
267 : 252 Base 84's (Skuntank)
265 : +Nature/252 Base 71's (Bibarel)
263 : 252 (Adamant) Gabite
262 : +Nature/252 Base 70's (Butterfree, Castform, Cloyster, Delcatty, Dewgong, Lunatone, Luxray, Magneton, Mantine, Mightyena, Noctowl, Politoed, Poliwrath, Solrock, Victreebell)
254 : +Nature/252 Base 66's (Mothim)
236 : 0 Speed Base 100's, Regigigas after Slow Start
226 : 0 Speed Base 95's
216 : 0 Speed Base 90's
215 : 252 Base 58's (Pre-Polish Rampardos)
209 : 252 Base 55's (Pre-Polish Relicanth, Cacturne)
206 : 0 Speed Base 85's (Gligar)
203 : 252 Base 52's (Unboosted Gorebyss, Huntail)
201 : 252 Base 51's (Unboosted Tropius)

D - Class Speeds (200 - 100)
196 : 0 Speed Base 80's
179 : 252 (Adamant) Shedinja
178 : 0 Speed Base 71's
176 : 0 Speed Base 70's
172 : 0 Speed Base 68's (Exploud, Seaking)
170 : 0 Speed Base 67's (Hypno)
168 : 0 Speed Base 66's (Mothim)
166 : 0 Speed Base 65's (Banette, Beautifly, Chimeco, Dustox, Flareon, Glaceon, Kricketune, Pelipper, Sandslash, Seviper, Walrein)
156 : 0 Speed Base 60's (Farfetch'd, Lapras, Masquerain, Spinda, Wailord, Whiscash)
152 : 0 Speed Base 58's (Rampardos)
146 : 0 Speed Base 55's (Ampharos, Cacturne, Crawdaunt, Exeggutor, Relicanth, Swalot, Ursaring)
140 : 0 Speed Base 52's (Gorebyss, Huntail)
138 : 0 Speed Base 51's (Tropius)
136 : 0 Speed Base 50's (Aggron, Bellossom, Lickilicky, Mawile, Muk, Regice, Sableye, Vileplume, Shelgon, Piloswine)
132 : 0 Speed Base 48's (Ditto, Unown)
128 : 0 Speed Base 46's (Carnivine)
126 : 0 Speed Base 45's (Armaldo, Dunsparce, Golem, Granbull, Marowak, Octillery, Wigglytuff)
122 : 0 Speed Base 43's (Cradily)
118 : (Slow Start) Regigigas
116 : 0 Speed Base 40's (Ariados, Camerupt, Kecleon, Probopass, Shedinja, Vespiquen, Rhydon, Snover)
114 : 0 Speed Base 39's (Gastrodon)
108 : 0 Speed Base 36's (Wormadam, Wormadam-G, Wormadam-S)
106 : 0 Speed Base 35's (Corsola, Quagsire)
100 : 0 Speed Base 32's (Clamperl, Hippopotas)

E - Class Speeds (< 100)
96 : 0 Speed Base 30's (Magcargo, Parasect, Slowking, Sudowoodo, Sunflora)
86 : 0 Speed Base 25's (Dusclops)
76 : 0 Speed Base 20's (Torkoal)
56 : 0 Speed Base 10's (Trapinch)
46 : 0 Speed Base 5's (Shuckle, Munchlax)
 
Statistics (23/07/09 to 30/07/09)

Credit to underdawg / VoiceOfReason for kindly giving me these statistics. Thanks!

Here are the statistics. Note I am only putting these up so we have "something", where people can get a relative idea. They don't have percentages at the moment but I'll speak to the appropriate members about that being possible.

Overall ladder usage stats:
Code:
   565 Medicham
   564 Gardevoir
   453 Sandslash
   451 Gligar
   448 Skuntank
   442 Pinsir
   422 Jumpluff
   379 Manectric
   366 Dusclops
   363 Slowking
   357 Magneton
   318 Flareon
   305 Relicanth
   296 Primeape
   293 Entei
   280 Hitmonchan
   274 Exeggutor
   271 Lickilicky
   253 Persian
   250 Leafeon
   232 Drifblim
   230 Poliwrath
   228 Linoone
   217 Ninetales
   205 Tauros
   203 Haunter
   183 Floatzel
   180 Venomoth
   174 Regice
   172 Gorebyss
   167 Hypno
   163 Camerupt
   160 Gastrodon
   150 Rhydon
   147 Cloyster
   144 Armaldo
   143 Ursaring
   140 Marowak
   136 Dodrio
   132 Purugly
   130 Muk
   129 Kangaskhan
   129 Golduck
   125 Lapras
   124 Cradily
   123 Probopass
   118 Glaceon
   117 Parasect
   109 Regigigas
   108 Aggron
   105 Vileplume
   105 Gabite
   105 Ampharos
   104 Banette
    97 Cacturne
    96 Shedinja
    95 Victreebel
    87 Sharpedo
    86 Zangoose
    86 Articuno
    83 Bibarel
    82 Slaking
    81 Luxray
    81 Hippopotas
    78 Munchlax
    77 Quagsire
    77 Bastiodon
    76 Wailord
    74 Rapidash
    73 Butterfree
    72 Shuckle
    71 Sneasel
    71 Lopunny
    70 Jynx
    69 Qwilfish
    69 Meganium
    65 Torkoal
    65 Shelgon
    64 Snover
    61 Solrock
    60 Piloswine
    59 Rampardos
    51 Walrein
    51 Kecleon
    49 Sudowoodo
    49 Pikachu
    48 Seviper
    48 Kingler
    47 Raticate
    41 Golem
    38 Kadabra
    37 Monferno
    36 Dustox
    35 Golbat
    34 Granbull
    34 Arbok
    33 Pelipper
    33 Mantine
    33 Ditto
    32 Magmar
    32 Machoke
    30 Vigoroth
    30 Dragonair
    29 Delibird
    29 Cleffa
    29 Clefairy
    28 Sableye
    28 Chatot
    27 Xatu
    27 Lunatone
    26 Tropius
    26 Shiftry
    26 Mr. Mime
    26 Electabuzz
    26 Clamperl
    25 Glalie
    24 Sunflora
    24 Raichu
    24 Phione
    24 Octillery
    24 Chimecho
    23 Politoed
    23 Metang
    23 Magcargo
    23 Huntail
    23 Dunsparce
    23 Bellossom
    21 Lumineon
    21 Ledian
    13 Wigglytuff
    12 Plusle
    12 Girafarig
    12 Crawdaunt
    11 Porygon
    11 Minun
    11 Grumpig
    11 Carnivine
    10 Pidgeot
    10 Delcatty
    10 Corsola
     9 Togetic
     9 Roselia
     9 Ariados
     8 Exploud
     8 Duskull
     7 Voltorb
     7 Trapinch
     7 Togepi
     7 Shuppet
     7 Pachirisu
     7 Mightyena
     7 Magnemite
     7 Krabby
     7 Bonsly
     7 Beedrill
     6 Yanma
     6 Marshtomp
     6 Eevee
     6 Cranidos
     6 Beautifly
     5 Tangela
     5 Prinplup
     5 Noctowl
     5 Masquerain
     5 Glameow
     4 Stantler
     4 Murkrow
     4 Misdreavus
     4 Graveler
     4 Furret
     4 Farfetch'd
     4 Diglett
     3 Wormadam-s
     3 Vibrava
     3 Swalot
     3 Seaking
     3 Rattata
     3 Castform
     2 Whiscash
     2 Spinda
     2 Mothim
     2 Combusken
     1 Wormadam
     1 Unown
     1 Sunkern
     1 Skorupi
     1 Remoraid
     1 Pidgeotto
     1 Nidorino
     1 Nidorina
     1 Meowth
     1 Meditite
     1 Mawile
     1 Kabuto
     1 Ivysaur
     1 Illumise
     1 Growlithe
     1 Fearow
     1 Ekans
     1 Dewgong
     1 Chimchar
     1 Charmeleon
     1 Charmander
     1 Bronzor
Overall ladder lead stats:
Code:
   318 Pinsir
   177 Persian
   138 Gligar
   123 Purugly
   113 Relicanth
   105 Jumpluff
    92 Entei
    89 Venomoth
    86 Floatzel
    81 Cloyster
    70 Tauros
    54 Piloswine
    54 Bastiodon
    52 Banette
    51 Kangaskhan
    49 Hippopotas
    48 Camerupt
    45 Butterfree
    43 Sharpedo
    42 Qwilfish
    39 Snover
    39 Armaldo
    37 Primeape
    37 Kecleon
    35 Probopass
    35 Luxray
    35 Lopunny
    31 Cradily
    27 Monferno
    27 Aggron
    26 Solrock
    24 Dodrio
    22 Kadabra
    22 Gardevoir
    22 Bibarel
    20 Regigigas
    20 Machoke
    18 Vigoroth
    17 Sudowoodo
    17 Hitmonchan
    16 Wailord
    15 Victreebel
    15 Slaking
    15 Haunter
    15 Golem
    14 Rapidash
    13 Sneasel
    12 Torkoal
    12 Exeggutor
    11 Sandslash
    11 Articuno
    10 Raticate
    10 Drifblim
     9 Tropius
     9 Ariados
     8 Golbat
     8 Girafarig
     7 Togepi
     7 Ampharos
     6 Zangoose
     6 Voltorb
     6 Pachirisu
     6 Lunatone
     6 Dusclops
     6 Chatot
     5 Xatu
     5 Shiftry
     5 Poliwrath
     5 Manectric
     5 Hypno
     4 Yanma
     4 Shedinja
     4 Rhydon
     4 Raichu
     4 Graveler
     4 Dustox
     4 Delibird
     4 Cacturne
     3 Vibrava
     3 Rattata
     3 Mightyena
     3 Metang
     3 Magcargo
     3 Jynx
     3 Dunsparce
     2 Stantler
     2 Roselia
     2 Rampardos
     2 Octillery
     2 Murkrow
     2 Marshtomp
     2 Magneton
     2 Leafeon
     2 Eevee
     1 Vileplume
     1 Ursaring
     1 Unown
     1 Sunkern
     1 Sableye
     1 Pidgeot
     1 Nidorina
     1 Muk
     1 Meowth
     1 Medicham
     1 Glalie
     1 Charmander
     1 Bronzor
 
Random Pizzaman is sad for not getting credit for doing half of the threat list :(

Anyways, glad to see a more informational OP to help those new to the tier. And speed tiers are always a nice thing to have.
 
Random Pizzaman is sad for not getting credit for doing half of the threat list :(

Anyways, glad to see a more informational OP to help those new to the tier. And speed tiers are always a nice thing to have.
Oh, sorry that's my fault..they were seperate and I thought Alchemator did both. I'll add you in now ;].
 
twash, could you edit the usage statistics into the first post?

EDIT: Lack of Cradily makes me sad
Not yet. The usage statistics are from the past 5-7 days, which isn't really worth it yet. I do plan on putting them up in the future though. I will add Cradily tomorrow (and Vileplume).
 
Is there any chance that the two weather pokemon are going to be banned? BTW, this thread looks really good. I honestly think it will help me get into the metagame more. It's also really cool that Smogon started a NU ladder.

Looking at the actual pokemon in the tier, it looks very interesting. The tier looks very offensive. As stated in the previous NU discussion thread (I think), the average attack base stat is higher then the average defense. It seems like it will be hyper offense, with a bias towards physical. I think that the inclusion of sandstorm in the tier makes special offense harder, as does the inclusion of Hypno.

On the Defensive side of things, it looks pretty interesting. Walrein has the same defenses as Swampert, who's only disadvantages are weakness to SR and no STAB EQ. With things like Hypno, Shuckle, Gligar, Quagsire, and even Muk, it seems stall breakers are even more valuable then usual.
 
Is there any chance that the two weather pokemon are going to be banned? BTW, this thread looks really good. I honestly think it will help me get into the metagame more. It's also really cool that Smogon started a NU ladder.
doubtful, they're nearly a waste of a team slot and hail/sand isn't very overpowering in NU.

re: twash - got your pm. glad you cross posted the tiers, i was going to in the old NU thread, so it's better off here anyway. :]
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Here's average base stats of NU if you want to edit that into the first post.

Also, I think Hippopotas and Snover should be in the Other Threats section, because while they're not particularly threatening offensively or defensively, they do offer crucial support to teams, and in addition, they are more than common enough to be on the list.
 
Hippopotas and Snover aren't actually threats, it's more their abilities are threats.

Hippopotas: Stealth Rock, Yawn, Toxic, Body Slam, Protect, Roar, Substitute

Snover: Leech Seed, Substitute, Blizzard, Toxic, Wood Hammer, Icy Wind, Ice Shard
 
I've been using this Regigigas in NU to quite some success. It find lots of places to set up, especially on many weaker attacks and in between Truant and such. The only problem is Haunter, but they seem to be a rare sight.

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
~ Substitute
~ Return
~ Earthquake
~ Rock Polish

Just stall out Slow Start with Substitute, and Rock Polish to boost your speed. I find this set pretty broken as a matter of fact, and certainly hope there is a 'BL' tier inbetween UU and NU to put him in. Now that Tangrowth is out of NU, this guy completes destroys teams. Once Slow Start wears off this guy is faster than even Swift Swim and those Sunny Day sweepers. (Only thing faster is those damn Jumpluff, but if I have a sub up they are no problem.) Nothing bar Haunter resists these attacks, and common switch ins such as Aggron and Probopass get owned by Earthquake.

Please add Regigigas to the threat list, probably as both offensive and defensive.

So far, this is an extremely unbalanced tier but still very fun to play.
 
You switch in Gigas. Opponent swtches in Medicham while you Sub. Medicham Hi Jump Kicks, you Sub. Repeat 4 times.

You switch in Gigas while opponent siwtches in Medicham. You're screwed.

Keep in mind that Hi Jump Kick's accuracy isn't too good.

since when is Icy Wind a threat
Since Snover doesn't have much else. He's got crappy Atk and SpAtk. Lowering your opponent's speed is usually more useful than 10% damage.
 
I've found ResTalk Mantine as an awesome counters to most Fire types and water types, and its a decent check against choiced Fighting types. I've run Surf/Toxic/Rest/Sleep Talk, and its been doing great. I think it deserves a spot on the threat list.

I've found Relicanth to be a decent lead too. He beats Sneasel, Pinsir, Persian and others. He can get down rocks, PHaze with Yawn, and hurts stuff with STAB Head Smash and Waterfall, and can be used a decent normal check in the mid game.
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
is a Contributor Alumnus
I've been using this Regigigas in NU to quite some success. It find lots of places to set up, especially on many weaker attacks and in between Truant and such. The only problem is Haunter, but they seem to be a rare sight.

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
~ Substitute
~ Return
~ Earthquake
~ Rock Polish

Just stall out Slow Start with Substitute, and Rock Polish to boost your speed. I find this set pretty broken as a matter of fact, and certainly hope there is a 'BL' tier inbetween UU and NU to put him in. Now that Tangrowth is out of NU, this guy completes destroys teams. Once Slow Start wears off this guy is faster than even Swift Swim and those Sunny Day sweepers. (Only thing faster is those damn Jumpluff, but if I have a sub up they are no problem.) Nothing bar Haunter resists these attacks, and common switch ins such as Aggron and Probopass get owned by Earthquake.

Please add Regigigas to the threat list, probably as both offensive and defensive.

So far, this is an extremely unbalanced tier but still very fun to play.
This set sounds okay. But the problem is that it's not exactly difficult to just bring in a phazer while you're trying to stall out Slow Start and force you out. Then when you come in again, you have to wait ANOTHER 5 turns. It's most likely not possible to wait another 5 turns though, since even with his good defenses, Regigigas can only Substitute so many times before getting too low on health. Also, it's in a lot of trouble if it doesn't have a Sub up while something uses Toxic. In addition, what's stopping something from coming in and setting up on Regigigas? For example, Bulk Up Hitmonchan can just set up while Regigigas is trying to stall out the Slow Start, and then it won't even matter if Regigigas stalls out the Slow Start since Mach Punch will destroy it, and its attacks won't do much against a several Bulk Upped Hitmonchan. This also has a lot of trouble with Ghost-types like Haunter and Misdreavus, like you mentioned.

It seems like it could be put in the threat list if it becomes common enough, but I honestly haven't seen Regigigas as much of a threat, since it basically does absolutely nothing for 5 turns, and becomes dead weight if the opponent has a phazer. It's sure as hell not broken IMO. In fact, I'd much rather use something like Tauros, who doesn't need all of the setup turns, and just start busting heads as soon as he comes out (he can also make very good use of Sub with Intimidate making it hard for physical blows to break it).

You switch in Gigas. Opponent swtches in Medicham while you Sub. Medicham Hi Jump Kicks, you Sub. Repeat 4 times.
You do realize that Medicham's still going to be faster after Slow Start is done if there's no Speed investment for Gigas, right? He's not going to be pulling off that Rock Polish at 1% with no Sub up.
 
You do realize that Medicham's still going to be faster after Slow Start is done if there's no Speed investment for Gigas, right? He's not going to be pulling off that Rock Polish at 1% with no Sub up.
Well he can RP while Medicham breaks the first sub, but I dont know if he'll outrun max speed 'Cham with Slow Start, and Scarf even less.
 
The threat list it's missing Golem, dúh (Who is offensive and defensive threat I guess (however, as defensive Rhydon outclasses him) Also Raticate (Faster guts ursaring (it learns Swords dance too, but nobody seem's to have even noticed that)) who is a threat because of it's good speed stat, 140 STAB'd facade will hurt while crunch ONOMNOMNOM's dusclops.

Defensive Threats

Sandslash -
[...]Sandslash also has [...] Roar in his utility.
lolwut

As final words... I feel a bit guilty because now Raticate usage as a huge threat may raise sky levels... :\
 
Also Raticate (Faster guts ursaring (it learns Swords dance too, but nobody seem's to have even noticed that)) who is a threat because of it's good speed stat, 140 STAB'd facade will hurt while crunch ONOMNOMNOM's dusclops.
I've been using Raticate, and I've found that people have a lot of trouble stopping it. Facade tears through everything that doesn't resist it, and can 2HKO some that do. I haven't seen Dusclops yet, but some switch in Driftblim expecting a facade after flame orb activates, only to get crunched. A guts boosted quick attack might help clean up late-game, although I haven't tried that yet. It also gets U-turn to help scout early on, which I'm testing now.
 
Trick Room teams are absolutely brutal in the NU tier. All of the common Trick Room sweepers are in that tier and wreak havoc. Not only that, but there are several decent Trick Room set up Pokemon and many Trick Room sweepers.

Trick Room set uppers include: Banette, Exeggutor, Gardevoir, Grumpig, Slowking, Xatu, and Pokemon that are the pre-evolution of common Trick Room users like Slowpoke, Bronzor, and Porygon.

Trick Room sweepers include: Crawdaunt, Marowak, Medicham, Rampardos, and Ursaring.

In this metagame, it's quite easy to built a workable Trick Room team and use some of the most powerful Pokemon to sweep under it without being revenge-killed as easily by a strong priority move *cough Bullet Punch Scizor cough*.
 
Just wondering, why would anyone use Shadow Claw over Night Slash on Slaking? Both does Super Effective against Ghost and Psychic; Night Slash hits Normal type but Shadow Claw doesn't. Trading off the NVE to Fighting types for Neutral to Normal is great. Both moves have same power/accuracy and High Crit. Ratio.
 
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