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NU Pokemon of the Week - #4: Miltank

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Chieliee, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    Welcome to a new start of one of your favorite NU forum projects, Pokemon of the Week! Yep, that's right, I'm taking this over from DTC, so get ready to discuss NU's Pokémon once again! You will probably be familiar with it if you were active in this when DTC hosted, or if you frequently visit another metagame's subforum, but for those of you who are new to this, I will explain it.

    The purpose of this project is twofold: to discuss prominent NU Pokemon and serve as a guide of sorts to newer players. A new Pokemon will be discussed each week. Feel free to share your experiences with the Pokemon, their role in the NU metagame, creative sets you've came up with that are effective, etc.

    There is also a page on-site in the NU hub that will detail all of the NU Pokemon of the Week. It can be found Here. Please note that I will not be re-doing these in the near future.

    The order in which PotW's will be chosen will mainly be in order of their Viability Ranking. However, if there's a specific Pokémon that has sparked a lot of discussion in our IRC channel #neverused, i might post that one instead of sticking to the order

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The first Pokemon of the Week is:


    Samurott
    [​IMG]
    Type:Water
    Base Stats: 95 HP / 100 Atk / 85 Def / 108 SpA / 70 SpD / 70 Spe
    Abilities: Torrent, Shell Armor (DW, Unreleased)

    Samurott has always been one of the most dominant forces in the NU tier since it moved down from RU. It's Hydro Pump can be devastating, especially when the otter beast is in Torrent Range. Even then, your best special wall isn't safe as you will often find yourself switching in on a physical SD Samurott. Because it has access to Taunt, Samurott can act as an amazing offensive anti-lead as well. What are your experiences with using samurott and how do you deal with it when facing it? Discuss!
  2. bobbyvaporeon

    bobbyvaporeon

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    I personally use Golduck because of my troubles with weather teams, Samurott is a fantastic Pokemon. It has always been a threat no matter what team I build, and it will continue to be.
    Also congrats on getting the thread.
  3. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    Samurott is a huge threat that just about every NU team needs to be prepared for. It can be a devastating physical sweeper with a SD set, can wallbreak with a special Life Orb set, or can even sweep with a SubSalac set. One of the reasons it's such a good mon is due to it's versatility. While it is only used in an offensive capacity, it can hit incredibly hard from both sides of the spectrum. Someone can switch in a special wall to tank a Hydro Pump and then find themselves either being set up on or taking a +2 Waterfall instead. This is only helped by the fact that Water is such a great offensive type. I think that its greatest downfall is definitely its middling base 70 speed. It leaves it vulnerable to many top threats in the tier, even with a +Speed nature. Even with Aqua Jet to somewhat get around this, it is still easy to cut a sweep short with many popular revenge killers such as Rotom-S, or just forcing it to tank a strong hit from something like Braviary or Sawk. Another thing that hurts Samurott's viability is that most of its sets arent too strong without some sort of boost. SD needs to get the attack boost in order to cause havoc, and the SubSalac set is best at cleaning up weakened teams as opposed to busting through walls, and will struggle getting past more defensive mons without hazards support. The one set that doesn't need the boost, the LO set, is even more vulnerable to speed issues due to not having access to anything to get past faster mons (outside of an uninvested Aqua Jet in some cases, which isn't doing much anyways). Despite these shortcomings, Samurott is definitely one of NU's premier Pokemon and is a threat every team needs to be prepared for.
  4. Bluwing

    Bluwing

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    I do agree alot with Audiosurfer here, Samurott is an very versatile threath in this tier and predicting wrong can cost you at worst the game. Having a base 70 speed stat is not the best I have too admit that, but this lets Samurott speed tie with other base 70's like Ludicolo and nail it with Megahorn which is super crucial. The reason for Samurott beeing such good pokemon in this tier is because hes easy to fit in on nearly any kind of team, just because of his versatiliy, there really isn't anything that can switch in safely as a LO Hydro Pump is very powerfull and pokemon that resist it's STAB is nailed by coverage moves. Samurott also spots very decent defensive stats which let it tank a hit and hit back hard which is what you really want from a wallbreaker/sweeper.
  5. FLCL

    FLCL
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    [​IMG]
    Samurott @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 136 HP / 212 SAtk / 160 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Taunt

    this set allows samurott to always survive sawsbuck's horn leech and other weak-ish super effective attacks. it still hits really hard with a modest nature and is fast enough to outpace everything up to rampardos. samurott actually has really good bulk (who knew?) and putting in a bit of hp investment allows it to take hits much better. absol and emboar are no longer in the tier so samurott doesn't really need to run max speed anyways—especially the special variant which has no reason to try to tie with ludicolo.
  6. TyranitarTerror

    TyranitarTerror

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    Out of all the Gen 5 starters, I liked Samurott the best. But my tradition is to always use the Fire-Starter, so I ended up getting my friend to trade me an Oshowatt egg because I just had to have one. I was disappointed with its stats though.
    I have never actually used one competitively because I am OU all the way. Nonetheless, Samurott is probably the coolest Gen 5 Starter
  7. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    [​IMG]
    Samurott (M) @ Mystic Water
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Copycat
    - Encore
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam

    Otter. This Samurott EV spread allows it to take a Life Orb Sawsbuck Horn Leech and even live Sawk's Choice Banded Close Combat. Yes, Samurott is that bulky. The main gimmick of this set revolves around using Encore + Copycat to allow Samurott to utilize a lot of moves it could never use before such as Calm Mind, Stealth Rock, and Wish. Modest Mystic Water Surf actually hits things very hard and the damage output is pretty close to that of a Timid Life Orb Hydro Pump. Ice Beam provides coverage against Altaria and Grass-type Pokemon. Some legends even claim using Ice Beam for 7 turns will allow you to defeat FLCL in a Pokemon match.

    Annoyer and I made this set randomly a while back when we found out about Rott having Encore and I looked through its movepool and found it also learned Copycat. Its main purpose was to Encore Musharna into Calm Mind and start destroying with CM Samurott. Encore + Copycat also has other purposes such as stopping a rampart SubBU Braviary by Encoring it into a non-attacking move and possibly Copycatting a Roost or Substitute. It can even Encore Pokemon like Lickilicky or Alomomola into Wish and Copycat that to start Wish passing to teammates. With Samurott having such a great match up vs a lot of Stealth Rock users, it can get up Copycatted Stealth Rock free of charge against them. Same kind of applies to Rapid Spin, which Armaldo, Torkoal, or Wartortle could use to give it the chance to Copycat. Nobody will ever expect Samurott spinning away hazards so you can even get away with removing hazards vs a team with a spinblocker.
  8. Sidfrid

    Sidfrid

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    [​IMG]
    Samurott @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 136 HP / 212 SAtk / 160 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Just got a bright idea. Since Samurott and Ludicolo are S-rank treats, why don't put them together and get some move synergy!

    This set uses FLCL special samurott as a base, since the opponent need to scout samurott to know is if the physical one or the special one, using rain dance will keep them wondering for another turn meanwhile you get a boosted Hydro Pump.

    With that speed he can set Rain Dance before going down just to open a path for a clean sweep from Ludicolo.

    Maybe the physical one will do the job best, but he can't afford to lose Aqua Jet or Sword Dance, so stick with the special one. (this don't get walled by alomomola, btw)
  9. Volty

    Volty

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    Oh man, Samurott were to start? This guy is my go to water type in nu and for good reasoning. Hes the main man when it comes to hydro pump spam ( Ludicolo aint got shit on Samurott ) Not only that but he is incredibly strong as a swords dance sweeper! Definetly something all teams have to be prepared for. Ive also seen it make used of sub salac/ peteya. Overall amazing sweeper :3
  10. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    Alright guys, discussion on Samurott has been a bit sparce, but me and you will try to make it a bit more active next week. Since i can't post PotW#2 exactly 1 week after #1, i'll post it a few hours early:

    Sawk
    [​IMG]
    Type: Fighting
    Base Stats: 75 HP / 125 Atk / 75 Def / 30 SpA / 75 SpD / 85 Spe
    Abilities: Sturdy/Inner Focus/Mold Breaker

    Sawk has a lot going for it. Nearly anything takes a huge chunk from it's Banded Close Combat (bar Musharna and ghost types, that is), and with a Scarf, it becomes an amazing revenge killer and possibly even a lategame sweeper. Sawk doesn't have a very big support movepool, but it can use Toxic to cripple common switch-ins such as Alomomola and Musharna. Furthermore, one can choose to run an Expert Belt set, which can easily gain an extra kill before your opponent knows what's going on.

    So... What are your experiences with Sawk and how do you deal with it etc etc etc?
    Discuss or die!

    :O i'm rude
  11. MarshallLeRoy

    MarshallLeRoy

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    This is a pretty standard set for Sawk and one I've used to great success for several rounds of NU:

    Sawk (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Stone Edge

    Sawk in general is the #1 NU Pokemon for a reason. Choice Band makes him a one stop wrecking crew. Scarf allows him to be a fantastic revenge killer and late game cleaner. Back in the day with Cincinno Scarfed Sawk was the one thing that consistently and mercilessly sent the little mouse packing. Choiced Sawk is the most common variant, making Ebelt and Bulk Up sets surprising and sometimes devastating.

    Sawk has become a centralizing force in the current NU metagame along with Musharna and Gardevoir, who are two of the best stops to him available. Traditional counters like Haunter are now risky switch ins because a Mold Breaker Earthquake will OHKO him every time. Golurk is a decent switch in but gets worn down easily if he takes any of Sawk's other attacks.

    Bottom line, teams have to be prepared for Sawk or they are going to be picked apart. Sawk is in my opinion the easiest Pokemon to use in NU at the moment and is the most used Pokemon for a reason. Nobody appreciates 180 BP Close Combats. He's the best at what he does in the tier, and even the tier shifts on the horizon should do little to dispel his dominance.

    To deal with Sawk, the best Pokemon I find is Eviolite Golbat. Although he is 2HKOd by Banded Stone Edge, he completely shrugs off Close Combat and can roost through Ice Punch if Rocks aren't present. Other than that, the aforementioned Musharna is a cold stop to the typical Sawk sets. Also Alomomola can switch in all day long unless there are several spike layers down.

    Eviolite Wartortle is a fantastic check to Sawk but is a momentum loser otherwise since he can't do much to it. Misdreavus is probably the full out best counter to Sawk, threatening with Will-O-Wisp and bulky enough that MB Earthquakes don't bother her too much.
  12. Audiosurfer

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    Sawk is one of the pokemon that this meta forms itself around in many ways. A STAB Close Combat is able to KO many pokemon in the tier, and the fact that it is so powerful is one of the reasons that psychic-types are so prominent in the tier, with Musharna frequently being used for its ability to act as a great switch-in to Sawk. Now, thanks to Sawk's Mold Breaker ability, it can also act as an anti-lead and KO the Rock types in the tier through Sturdy, letting it prevent them from setting up Stealth Rocks.
    While Sawk doesn't have a whole lot of counters, the ones that are counters are very good ones. Usually, I use Musharna on my team in order to have a great switch-in to Sawk, so my team isn't weak to it. With Baton Pass, it even gets around Sawk + Skuntank cores, letting it wall Sawk throughout the match. Other Psychic types and Ghost types can switch into a CC and retaliate with a strong attack. Otherwise, one can use a Scarfer such as Rotom-S to beat Sawk (although this isn't as reliable, especially if it's a Sturdy Sawk and can live the hit and fire off a coverage move).
  13. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    Sawk (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Ice Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic / Knock Off

    Sawk is easily the biggest threat in the NU tier, and for good reason. It packs so much power that anything switching into even a resisted attack is gonna regret it (sans Musharna and others.). But even those mons regret the side effects of Toxic Poison or losing their Leftovers or Eviolite. Expert Belt Sawk is a nasty surprise for the people who expect it to be the Choiced variant, which most people should, since those variants are the most popular. Sawk's coverage is amazing, hitting almost everything for neutral damage, and much of the tier for SE damage. There are, though, some things it would rather cripple for the remainder of the match. Toxic is a fantastic option on any offensive set for any Pokemon, since it wears down what it can't kill. Personally, though, I run Knock off, since it makes standard Misdreavus easier to take on.

    Sawk is a must have for any competitive team at the moment,and is a Pokemon that every team should be prepared for.
  14. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    Late but...

    Rott can survive sawsbuck's horn leech with only 120 hp. I guess the rest can be put either in sp.a or added to spe along with 16 sp.a ev's to outspeed gorebyss before it boosts.

    252Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck (Neutral) Horn Leech vs 120HP/0Def Samurott (Neutral): 84% - 99% (306 - 360 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  15. FLCL

    FLCL
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    yeah ebeast pointed that out to me but i was too lazy to fix it. for some reason i was under the impression that it always rounds up (my spread takes 98.9% max) which isn't correct obviously. outpacing gorebyss is cool so using that is probably a good idea.
  16. Five Green

    Five Green

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    About Sawk... Everyone knows he's the most used pokemon in this tier, and for good reason. The CB set packs incredible power, amazing coverage and is a great partner to SR weak pokemon like Charizard and Articuno, being able to flat-out kill most SR setters(rapid spinners in this tier aren't that good in my opinion :|). I didn't tried other variants like Choice Scarf or Expert Belt, but I've met a few of them and they've been a nasty surprise... everyone expects him to be banded, after all.

    His counters aren't many, but they do their job perfectly. Musharna is the safest switch to any Sawk, taking pitiful damage from every move Sawk's got, then there are Alomomola and Misdreavus. Also, everything fast that outspaces him, like Gardevoir, Rotom-F, Charizard are all able to beat him.
  17. Gl4ss

    Gl4ss

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    I disagree, I find that people far overestimate Musharna's ability to take on Sawk in the face of team support, particularly Skuntank. If Musharna at any time takes a Pursuit on the way out it can no longer switch in on Banded Sawk if rocks are down. That kind of over-reliance on Musharna by opponents has netted me quite a few wins. Alomomola is also hardly a safe switch-in if rocks are down even if you're running 252 hp 252 def. Misdreavus tends to be pretty good but given how much speed creep it participates in to edge Skuntank the bulk is losing out; and even with max bulk Misdreavus takes a 3hko from Banded Sawk's Stone Edge/EQ, and outright loses to most variants with taunt.
  18. skylight

    skylight winner of smogon's most sizzlin' grill 2014
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    But you can tell what you're in for then depending on how much damage it takes, and it becomes much easier for your other Pokemon to take it on. For example if you have Goose or Kanga - you may lose Mushy to Sawk but you can now switch in a faster normal mon (or anything faster really) outspeed and OHKO Sawk and it's ded. Also I've found many people carrying BP now and when Skunk is predicted to switch in they just BP out and survive. This is also assuming they don't have their own Sawk or a Taunt lead, or a spinner to prevent SR, too. Smarter players can play around Skunk protecting Sawk, and then their Mushy can live, they live Sawk, etc.
  19. Gl4ss

    Gl4ss

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    True, just saying that Musharna alone is not a foolproof solution, and warning against the tendency of people to just throw Musharna on a team and expect to be Sawk-proof. That and I've always found people to be somewhat reluctant to run BP on Musharna as they so love the Heal Bell CM booster that they refuse to part with it.

    In any case, this is a Sawk thread so let's discuss Sawk. Now this set isn't necessarily good, but it can be frustrating for opponents and hilarious for you if it works.

    Sawk @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 4HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Substitute
    -Close Combat
    -Ice Punch/Earthquake
    -Pain Split

    The premise of this set is fairly straightforward, set up a sub on something that dislikes you (typically lead Probopass/Bastiodon/Golem) and then fire off attacks accordingly, pain splitting when your health gets low, it is notable that after a Substitute and at full health Pain Split is the most damaging move you have against Musharna.

    The beauty of this set is that the combination of Sawk, Pain Split and a Substitute, in addition to easing prediction, tends to cause opponents to act irrationally and give you easy switches. Often you will switch Sawk out while he still has his substitute up as the opponent tries to break it with weak attacks that give you good opportunities to switch in. It's also particularly effective when facing balance teams that utilize Alomomola as Sawk's primary counter. Sawk recovers its health fully vs Alomomola most of the time, and those that utilize Scald can't even actually break the Substitute.

    Aside from the hilarity of Pain Split Sawk is quite effective as a run of the mill Sub attacker, with its coverage move depending on what you want to hit hardest. I prefer Ice Punch for Altaria/Exeggutor/Golurk.

    Simple EVs that no one should be confused about, and a Jolly nature to give those people who have gotten a little too comfortable with their Adamant base 90s and Modest Rotoms something to think about.
  20. skylight

    skylight winner of smogon's most sizzlin' grill 2014
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    I don't think it really works that well against Alomomola. CC would drop defence so Scald does hit, and Waterfall breaks it, and EQ only does Earthquake: 16.66 - 19.66%, which is p much nothing. Alomomola does have Wish + Protect and can just break your sub and eventually stall moves and Toxic you. :(

    Maybe you'd be better off with Toxic > EQ/Ice Punch? Mainly because you can actually wear down Alomomola without sacrificing your ability to Substitute and Toxic can do the same to Tangela, etc, otherwise it doesn't really accomplish that much. It won't help with Altaria but it'd force the switch and Exeggutor there's not really much you can do but yeah, it'd definitely help against the others, though.
  21. Gl4ss

    Gl4ss

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    The idea is not to kill Alomomola and this set is not a wallbreaker. It's a sub attacker that can also function as a pivot because an intact substitute discourages the use of status move and lures weak attacks from walls that can be easily taken advantage of. The standard Waterfall breaks the sub, but Alomomola likes to Toxic things on the switch. The Sub goes up, possibly a pain split which will fully recover Sawk's HP from almost any amount of health, and something can hopefully come in Toxic free.

    Now that does open up to the idea of Tspikes support, but I'm always hesitant to recommend the use of Tspikes in a tier with as many grounded poison types as NU
  22. skylight

    skylight winner of smogon's most sizzlin' grill 2014
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    Oh right, yeah that works although I feel like that's not really utilising Sawk's capability to do so much more to opposing teams when other Pokemon can do the same thing (not against Alomomola in particular). Personally, I would rather just outright abuse Sawk for what it's known to be good for - as that can leave a bigger hole in a team than most of the other Pokemon you're sending in (and in a way you can do it with Guts users/poison types anyway and that doesn't sacrifice their usefulness, either). I'd also probably rather if it had some kind of boost so it could actually gain something from being behind the sub (like BU). Even when avoiding t-wave/wow, it can't do anything really even if it's under the sub anyway and lacks the power it'd get from having a Choice item or BU. Sub with BU on the other hand does actually sound like it could be useful/fun to use, though, without Sawk losing out on anything really. Pain Split does sound good against Mushy, though, but then I think Mushy would just try to set up on Sawk at that point really while Sawk wouldn't do much back against it.
  23. Infernis

    Infernis

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    I've been running this set as an early-game doorman in some of the higher tiers, and find it to work swimmingly down in NU as well. It is vulnerable to sandstorm and hail, as well as status. Luckily for this set, such constant weather is fairly rare in NU.


    [​IMG]
    Sawk @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 4HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (Jolly can work)
    -Reversal
    -Stone Edge
    -Bulk Up
    -Endure/Close Combat

    Reversal is the crux of the set, as it can reach 200 power, 300 with STAB. It allows Sawk to smash through most anything, even unboosted. Stone Edge is for hitting ghosts, but almost nothing else is hit harder by it than a full-powered Reversal. Bulk Up is used for boosting attack while at full health, or possibly defense as well if you're facing a wall. Endure can be used to pull off a max-powered Reversal even while not at full health. If you're not so worried about that, Close Combat can be used for a solid 120 power move.

    Gameplan: if you're at full health and the enemy has no multi-hit moves, use Bulk Up for more attack. (The defense boost is extraneous, but there's no Swords Dance to be had.) Salac berry activates, and you're sitting at +1 attack and speed and hitting with a 200 power Fighting move. It's like wearing a Band and Scarf at the same time, except that you're living on the edge and can change moves. For reference, I've seen this thing walk over Skarmory, Tentacruel, a SR-damaged Cresselia, and a Scizor, amongst others. I haven't tested it as much in NU, but it's something to try.

    Being paired with a spinner to help Sawk get in at full health is a good plan if he's not being used as a lead.
  24. MarshallLeRoy

    MarshallLeRoy

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    Looks like a really cool set, and may have to try this bad boy out! It suffers 4 MSS really badly though. Not having Close Combat on Sawk seems like a complete waste to me.
  25. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    Alright guys, big people like flcl and idk told me that this is starting to look too much like the next best thing thread. So please, just try to discuss the qualities and flaws of the current PotW, and save your sets for the Next Best Thing.

    Personally, I've only used Expert Belt Sawk, and it gets so many surprise kills, it's not even funny. Your opponent sends in a Regirock after you Ice Punch something? Close Combat -> R.I.P Regirock. Expert Belt Sawk functions pretty well as a lead, and usually got a kill or two (or three, rarely) on the ladder, before i had to switch it out. Band sets hit everything like a motherfucking truck, and paired with Skuntank to trap Musharna, Banded Sawk can rip through teams that lack speed. Scarf is great too i think, but like i said, I've only used EBelt so i don't really know much about it

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