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NU Pokes in RU? RU Nuts?

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Phazon00, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Thank you for the submission, Jarc! I wanted to see Absol, and there it is! Absol is undeniably one of the biggest threats in the tier, and I'm glad to see it in the guide.

    Also, I'm gonna keep CB Cinccino. I think it is a powerful set, and after playtesting it hasn't disappointed. The OHKO on Nidoqueen is very important.
  2. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

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    [​IMG]
    Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-Turn
    - Protect / Quick Attack

    Selling Points: Swellow has always been in a solid Pokemon in the lower tiers during the past 3 generations, and BW2 RU is no exception. One of the main things that makes Swellow so good is its excellent Speed tier. Sitting at an amazing base 125 Speed, Swellow outspeeds almost the entirety of the unboosted RU tier, only losing out on Aerodactyl and Accelgor. While Swellow's Attack stat looks average at best at first, its ability, Guts completely changes that, after Swellow's trusty Toxic Orb activates, its base Attack shoots up from base 85 to the equivalent of base 152! Add on Swellow's high powered STAB moves in Facade and Brave Bird and you have an excellent late game cleaner in your hands.

    Why use it in RU?: Swellow often struggles in the higher tiers due to the abundance of Steel- and Rock-types can can take easily take its STAB moves, and these pokemon, while not nonexistant, are significantly less common in RU than they are in say, OU. This makes it much easier to make good use of Swellow's power and speed on an offensive team. Swellow is a good addition to pretty much any spikestacking offense team thanks to the fact that the Rock- and Steel-types that give it a hard time often completely lack a form of reliable recovery, making it much easier to wear them down with a few layers of hazards up and good play with U-turn. Swellow is also a decent revenge killer on an offensive team thanks to its speed and priority, and can end up saving your ass more times than you can count. The entry hazards also help Swellow score quite a few OHKOs and 2HKOs on some bulkier pokemon.

    Why NOT use it in RU?: Although Swellow looks absolutely incredible on paper, there is a reason that it is often relegated to the lower tiers. As mentioned before, Swellow struggles greatly with Rock- and Steel-types, and while they arent as common in RU, they are still a massive roadblock for the speedy bird to overcome. The combination of Swellow's fraility, Stealth Rock weakness, and its own Toxic Orb also hurts Swellow quite a bit. Its pretty damn hard to switch Swellow in on almost any attack, and it can usually only come in after a KO, because of the stealth rock weakness, repeated switching will often wear Swellow down to the point where it isnt accomplishing as much as it could. Swellow is also on a timer thanks to its Toxic Orb, wearing it down course of the match even further.
  3. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Thank you, Molk, for your Swellow contribution. It is certainly a big threat. Sorry for the short post- gotta go!
  4. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold .R
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    [​IMG]

    Zweilous (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Crunch
    - Fire Fang / Substitute
    - Thunder Wave


    Selling Points: Zweilous is a new mon in Black & White, with Hustle has an awesome Attack, with Hustle reach about 442 Atk. Also, Zweilous isnt only power, with Eviolite has a good defense and big part of the Evs in HP because is slow and dont need run Evs in Speed and only with 20 Speed EVs allow Zweilous to outrun base 60 Speed Pokemon.

    Why use it in RU?: Great coverage with Dragon, Dark and Fire types, work well in Cress meta. This set with this Attack and coverage work like Wallbreaker because many walls are 2HKOed easily. Magneton is a good partner, good sinergy and can trap steel types mainly if you dont run Fire Fang. Slowking is another good partner, very good sinergy except Bug attacks, is a good support with Thunder Wave or Trick Room. To finish, CB Entei is another offensive temmate because Zweilous can break physical walls like Poliwrath or Qwiflish.

    Why NOT use it in RU?: This is a mon for players very risky since has a bad accuracy because Hustle and the confusion of Outrage is very annoying since dont run Lum Berry in this set. Also, needs a bit of support like paralysis or just use Trick Room to sweep.
  5. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Omygosh, I haven't been checking my thread that much. I apologize my laziness.

    Thank you for your Zweilous submission, Hot N Cold! I would definitely like Dragon Tail slashed next to Substitue, as I think it can definitely be a valuable asset. Phazing around can be a good idea, and with Zweilous' crazy power, even 40 power STAB moves will hit decently hard.

    Also, please elaborate on your "Why NOT" section, as it needs a little more meat. Mention counters like faster Fighting types and faster Dragon types.
  6. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    I previously used Ninjask + Zweilous core, and it worked pretty good. My original team was horrible, but after a bit of twitching, I think I finally found a way to make Zweilous work. On Ninjask, use the standard set but with Hone Claws over SD. It allows to fix Hustle's accuracy drop. After a couple of Speed boosts and HC boosts, Zweilous is a devastating Pokemon, especially if the EVs are made to be able to take some hits.
  7. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    That sounds terrifying, JCM. Also, Braviary is the last one I really need to see in this guide. I know it is a terrifying threat, so if anyone has experience, please post!
  8. IceSpade

    IceSpade

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    I've been trying out RU for some time, and I think NU #2 mon, Amoonguss, deserves attention.
    Amoonguss @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    -Spore
    -Giga Drain
    -Sludge Bomb / Clear Smog
    -Stun Spore / Synthesis

    Selling Points: Amoonguss is a Pokemon that can be effective in OU, yet it is there ruling in NU. The combination of Spore, Regenerator, and Synthesis, along with good typing and decent bulk, give Amoonguss the ability to compete in RU.
    Why use it in RU? There are a lot of Pokemon in RU that Amoonguss can threaten such as Kabutops, special attacker Sceptile, and more. A 100% accurate sleep move is also good, it can render one opposing Pokemon useless for the rest of the match.
    Why not use it in RU? There are a lot of Fire types in RU that can threaten Amoonguss with their STAB moves. Especially Magmortar which also have Vital Spirit against Spore. Sap Sippers such as Bouffalant can also use Amoonguss to its advantage. Cresselia and other Psychic types can use Amoonguss as set-up bait.
    Overall, Amoonguss has some weaknesses (although every Pokemon does), and also faces competition to things such as Roselia, but if its decent bulk and good typing might be useful to your team, then it won't disappoint.

    *Note that I'm not expert at RU yet so there might be more effective spreads for RU, but max Def is the way to go in NU.
  9. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    I'm going to have to agree that Amoongus is definitely capable of holding its own in RU despite being a NU pokemon. The set that I am testing out right now is

    [​IMG]
    (Amoonguss) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    HP Ground is really effective against steel types that want to wall you like Aggron (without Magnet Rise), Magneton or Steelix. 240 HP minimizes LO recoil, but I'm not sure if its the most efficient with Regenerator. 16 Speed EVs is to speed creep on opposing Amoongus and other pokemon that have base 30 speed.

    Amoongus is capable of winning a lot of 1v1 matchups against a lot of pokemon in this metagame. And with Regenerator and Giga Drain, you can't just wear it down with weak attacks, like you can against other defensive pokemon like Sandslash or Qwilfish.

    Being able to take something out of the game with spore is great in itself but it can really take advantage of its typing in this meta. It's a great check to fighting types and has pretty good matchups against some of the more common pokemon in the tier. Here's how Amoongus matches up against the top 15 according to usage stats:

    Nidoqueen - Fire blasts does a little too much damage, but you have a really high chance to live it if you're healthy 252 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Fire Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Amoonguss: 85.65% - 100.93% (12.5% chance to OHKO). It has to hit fire blast and get a high roll to ohko at full health.
    Sceptile - Great answer to it. Not much it can do bar the SD Acro set or hope to get big crits with HP Ice/Fire.
    Slowking - Takes psychics very well and respond back with Giga Drains.
    Gallade - Psycho Cut is an easy 2hko, while a majority of them run Lum Berry so it's really not a great matchup.
    Uxie - it sets up on Amoongus like it does on a lot of other pokemon. You can still weaken it with Sludge Bombs and Giga Drains.
    Entei - Absolutely nothing you can do, but Entei has that effect on a lot of pokemon in this metagame.
    Galvantula - Galvantula can't do much to Amoongus, but Amoongus can't do much back. You can always put it to sleep if necessary.
    Typhlosion - Similar to entei but is a lot less threatening than it.
    Aerodactyl - Not much it can do to you, but Giga Drain may not be a 2hko unless you're life orbed.
    Sandslash - EQ is not a 2hko and Giga Drain is an easy OHKO.
    Hitmonlee - Blaze Kick is the only move that can really do anything to you. And that's not a guaranteed 2hko if you run defense EVs, and it has to hit consecutively. Blaze Kick is only used 32% of the time on hitmonlee as well.
    Cresselia - Psychic is a 2hko and there's not much you can do to it. Sludge Bomb does around 30 + %, but they can just moonlight off the damage. Sporing Cresselia is an option, but
    Tangrowth - It can't do much to you other than Sleep Powder, but Sludge Bomb is an OHKO on defensive variants.
    Spiritomb - Similar to Galvantula. Will-O-Wisp can be a little annoying. Clear Smog can be pretty effective against Calm Mind variants, but that's not the set I'm trying to advocate.
    Feralgatr - Feralgatrs rarely run ice punch and it won't be able to OHKO regardless. Giga Drain hits Feralgatr's weaker specially defensive side and there's always Regenerator to fall back on.

    going to edit this post with more later...
  10. Slory

    Slory

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    In general terms, the best way to go with Amoonguss is Special Defensive to take better Pokemon like Sceptile, Rotom-C, Lilligant, Rotom-N, Slowking, Lanturn, Omastar or Galvantula for example. The physical defensive spread cannot effectively wall a lot of Pokemon; for example the aforementioned Kabutops can destroy it at +2 with Stone Edge, and others like Crawdaunt or Feraligatr still do a lot of damage with Crunch and Return respectively. Also, the lack of good Fighting-types, besides Gallade that can OHKO it with Zen Headbutt, make useless this spread.

    Offensive Ammonguss seems a really bad idea, to be honest. Firstly, Amoonguss is too slow and not bulky enough to accomplish this well. I disagree with most of the things that you say. The matchup against top 15 usage stats is not at all relevant, since the usage stats sucks, and examples like Sandslash are irrelevant. Also, there a lot of wrongs things: Sheer Force Nidoqueen OHKO this Amoonguss with Fire Blast, your calcs are without Sheer Force; Galvantula, Slowking and Uxie 2HKO Amoonguss with Bug Buzz, Fire Blast / Psyshock, and Psychic respectively; Aerodactyl 2HKO it with Life Orb, and witout it, 2HKO every time with SR on the field; Swords Dance Feraligatr has a small chance to OHKO it with Return at +2, if SR is on the field OHKO you every time, and the list of Pokemon that can bypass Amoonguss goes on. Also, 85 SAtk is not great to abuse them, and there a lot of Pokemon that can take a hit and hit harder back such as Moltres, Escavalier or Druddigon. Finally, since there a lot of Pokemon that use Lum Berry like Pinsir, Gallade or Drapion, Spore is not that threatening; for example, the aforementioned Gallade can Swords Dance on it without worry, and OHKO back with Zen Headbutt.

    Overall, Offensive Amoonguss is too slow, not bulky and powerful enough to be effective in this metagame.
  11. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    Amoongus still has a chance to live Fire Blast at full HP (lol @ not factoring sheer force) and spore Nidoqueen. Additionally Uxie is rarely Offensive, Galvantula needs to be specs and Modest to 2hko, and theres a chance you can beat slowking 1v1 if you switch in on a psychic/psyshock depending on what set it is.

    I also don't think you quite understand the set. I'm not switching Amoongus in on every single attack in the game. I'm using it offensively. If it can switch in to an attack it can cushion, I will bring it in. So the pokemon you mentioned like Pinsir, Gallade, and Drapion are switching in on me and not the other way around.
  12. Slory

    Slory

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    Uxie can 2HKO it without use investment, Galvantula with Life Orb obviously. In this metagame, still inclined for Offense, Amoonguss is too slow and weak to work well, against offensive teams Amoonguss cant do anything, against defensive teams hasnt the powerful to break walls like Cresselia, Clefable, Roselia and others. Also, Offensive Tangrowth its still better at doing this, has better overall bulk to switching in more Pokemon, better coverage moves, and Special Attack that really can hurt. Offensive Amoonguss can surprise, but outside that cannot do anything.
  13. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Both Amoonguss sets are viable in RU. After playtesting, both are effective. Good finds, people. Only thing I will do is switch the Spread on the first one from Max Def to Max SpDef, as this helps much, much more.
  14. littlelucario

    littlelucario

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    well i have a pretty good TR sweeper to post

    Octillery @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Sniper/Suction Cups
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 6 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Fire Blast
    - Energy Ball
    - Ice Beam

    Any help?

    here' damage calcs
    252+ SpA Expert Belt Octillery Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 189 - 223.04%
    252+ SpA Expert Belt Octillery Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Archeops: 171.47 - 202.74%
    252+ SpA Expert Belt Octillery Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Escavalier: 165.01 - 194.46
    252+ SpA Expert Belt Octillery Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sandslash: 160.73 - 189.26%
    and others
  15. Constantinipple

    Constantinipple

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    octillery could be a good TR sweeper but its so hard to bring him in in the four turns that TR is there. (1 turn going lost after the 'summoning') he is rather frail so switching him in will result in him getting KO'd in most of the occasions. once TR expires you'll most likely be killed or forced out, opening new possibilities for the opponent. also, in TR, escavalier will outslow you and OHKO you with Megahorn. there are undoubtedly many more arguments why octillery is just a bad mon in RU, but since RU is not what i primarily play, i'll leave it to someone else who does.
  16. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    telling us that it will ko frail pokemon with supereffective attacks isn't really that useful. it's a sweeper, it's supposed to do that. instead, tell us about how it deals with counters. what can stop its sweep?
  17. littlelucario

    littlelucario

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    also, i think that if this hasn't been posted cacturne is a very good addition here is a set.

    Cacturne @ Leftovers/ Focus Sash
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Seed Bomb/Drain Punch
    - Spikes
    - Sucker Punch
    - Swords Dance
    you can run drain punch over seed bomb of you want recovery and it is preferable to have rapid spin support for sash. just try it.

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