Gen 3 NU Stall Attempt

Hello, I'm going to be honest, I'm not super experienced with this tier having only picked it up a few weeks ago so I'm going under the assumption that this team is not very good. The main purpose of this thread is to learn more about the ADV NU meta from your replies, as I have grown quite fascinated with it, and to maybe end up with a functional team by the time all is said and done. In ADV OU I've always preferred more stallish teams to offensive ones and when I saw Piexplode's rmt and saw that stall was not only possible in this tier but also had some nifty pokemon to use, I wanted to give it a go. As a result, this team is fairly heavily influenced by Piexplode's team.

At a Glance


Hitmonchan:

Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Mach Punch

The team leads with what I understand to be the tier's best pokemon, hitmonchan. I decided to use the rapid spinner set as glalie has a couple of set up opportunities vs this team, and I have a number of spikes vulnerabilities which is not good for a team that is trying to last. I chose to lead with it in order to counter lead glalie. Sky uppercut gives me a fairly reliable and very powerful STAB, mach punch allows me to deal with flail users, and HP ghost allows me to hit haunter hard, while also hitting sableye for more than nothing. Despite the more passive nature of the rapid spin set, this thing still hits like a truck. It is also deceptively bulky especially on the special side.

Roselia:

Roselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 60 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Synthesis

Roselia was chosen as my spiker, and seemed like a fairly obvious choice being the defensive spiker of the tier. Spikes are important for this team as they are one of my primary methods of dealing damage, and they seem very effective in this tier thanks to the lack of rapid spinners. Leech seed gives roselia something to do once spikes are down and prevents it from being set up bait. HP grass gives roselia some offense and can actually hit decently hard against those that are weak to it. Synthesis gives me some reliable recovery, although it would be nice if it had more PP. The ev spread has enough spA to give relicanth a good chance of KOing huntail for the revenge kill, with the rest pumped into spdef to try and take Ice beams from huntail as well as possible.

Sableye:

Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 208 Def / 36 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Recover

Sableye rounds out the core providing spin blocking support. Being used to gengar in ou, i was wowed by how insanely reliable this thing is as a spin blocker. Spinmonchan really can't do anything to it so as long as this guy is alive and relatively healthy, my spikes are there to stay. Outside of this it has other uses as well. No weaknesses combined with immunities to some common STABs in the tier, combined with recover and decent defenses makes this thing incredibly resilient. It can be annoying as hell with toxic and especially knock off which is really effective in conjunction with spikes. Shadow ball allows me to hurt things like chimecho and haunter, while giving me a STAB attack to use after I've crippled whatever is in against me with toxic and/or knock off. The evs are copied from piexplode. I don't really know the best way to ev stuff in this tier effectively and his seemed to fit well with what I was trying to do.

Chimecho:

Chimecho (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Hidden Power [Dark]

I needed more than just one answer to hitmonchan and I also needed a beller, chimecho fits both of these roles perfectly. Originally I had a toxic protect set however I found the set just wasn't dangerous enough. The threat of toxic didn't scare many things due to the prevalence of heal bell and aromatherapy users in the tier. With HP dark I can threaten non HP dark chimecho offensively, and calm mind boosted HP darks also help lure in and weaken opposing sableye so that hitmonchan can get a spin off. The EVs maximize physical bulk in order to have an easier time countering hitmonchan although I feel they probably could be optimized.

Flareon:

Flareon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Roar
- Wish
- Protect

Flareon acts as a special wall to compliment roselia, it takes on the offensive grass types with ease. Even if it gets put to sleep, they can't kill it before it wakes up. Flamethrower provides a reliable and very strong STAB, wish and protect allow it to heal itself as well as others on the team. Chimecho and hitmonchan often appreciate the extra recovery. Roar allows me to phaze out chimecho, and also gives me an answer to baton pass shenanigans. The evs maximize special defense in order to take on chimecho to the best degree possible.

Relicanth:

Relicanth (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Relicanth is the team's bulky water and primary physical wall. Originally I had whisash in this spot however I found that Choice band flying types, particularly murkrow were troublesome without a flying resist. I went with a sleep talk set in order to maximize longevity and to prevent me from having to switch out should i get statused. Quake slide gives me solid coverage with relicanth's STAB rock slide and good offenses. The speed evs allow me to speed creep against huntail. Ideally I should be able to hit huntail with hp grass from roselia, then switch to relicanth on the resisted ice beam proceed to kill it with rock slide, then backsweep with the speed boost from huntail's rain. I pumped the rest of the evs into attack in order to help KO huntail. I found its defense was so good already that I didn't need investment in it. Putting evs into attack increases its offensive potential and this thing actually hits like a truck. Despite this being the newest addition to the team it has proven itself to be quite effective.

Weaknesses:

The main weaknesses I've found so far have been to specially offensive flareon, and of course huntail which has been the bane of pretty much every team I've tried to build in this tier. Glalie can be annoying as well when it is paired with sableye as it has an easy time spiking vs this team. HP Dark chimecho can also be an issue as my own chimecho can't beat it with its ev spread without getting very lucky, and all I have left is sableye (which is a shakey counter at best) and flareon (which can only roar it out). I'm sure there are other weaknesses I have not encountered yet, and I am looking forward to your responses to see what I can do to try and fix them.

Importable:

Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Mach Punch

Roselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 60 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Synthesis

Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 208 Def / 36 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Recover

Chimecho (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Hidden Power [Dark]

Flareon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Roar
- Wish
- Protect

Relicanth (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
afaik the only huntail counters (it's not really a counter but it doesn't have to rely on shit like hydro missing or explosion to check it) is dewgong

I saw the team and saw the weakness. Anyways;
on Flareon you want to run the spread I posted in response to prozac's team, it is really useful.

your team's also weak to vigoroth. you can run seismic toss>knock off on sableye to check it better though, but it's a meh set on sableye unfortunately =/ idk how else to beat roth

relicanth vs lileep is a pretty unimportant choice; lileep's main advantages are being able to force out whiscash and relicanth easily, and beat opposing relicanth (another weakness) but relicanth beats everything it's supposed to better, whilst also beating CB flareon.

hitmonchan vs wartortle's actually a pretty meaningless choice tbh, chan is better versus more offensive teams due to being able to OHKO haunter, whilst wartortle has decent change to spin vs sableye teams.

chimecho and sableye provide a lot of overlap; sab checks more stuff and spinblocks though, but there's equally not really another good heal beller in the tier, and flareon absolutely adores the support ;_; maybe try aromatherapy on roselia though, that frees up a slot.

Roar vs Toxic on flareon's a preferential choice, roar is kinda cool actually.

Overall:
Run my flareon spread
Team is weak to vigoroth, huntail, relicanth [but if you remove the relicanth for lileep to counteract this you gain a weakness of sorts to offensive flareon]
chimecho overlaps a lot with sableye but u kinda don't have any other options for this sort of stall in adv nu .-.
hitmonchan vs wartortle and roar vs toxic on flareon are all minor changes with different advantages in different matchups.
Your team is basically a different version of mine, because stall in this tier is insanely restrictive [not saying you copied me and I noticed you acknowledged me, I'm just complaining about the tier]
ban huntail+vigoroth y/n
 
Thanks for the help I will definitely run that spread. I'm hesistant to put aromatherapy on roselia, I had that originally and roselia I find just doesn't have enough things it switches in on to be a reliable cleric and still have time to spike up, and having an extra hitmonchan answer has definitely saved me especially against bulk up variants. that being said I'll definitely give it a go. What would you suggest I run in that spot as a replacement?
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
well as I say, dewgong covers the huntail weakness ish, but if you can find anything that does it better, use that.

also yeah chime definitely is still useful alongside sab but a weakness is a weakness ;_; keeping toxic on sableye should help with bulk up hitmonchan though, and stoss, like with vigoroth, will break subs
 

Oglemi

Borf
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From my experience trying to use stall in NU, you need more passive damage on the team in order to really be able to outstall the opponent, otherwise you don't have enough momentum and get run over by really offensive teams packing stuff like Huntail/Vigoroth/Plusle/offensive Chime. Right now your only form of passive damage is from Spikes and Sableye's Toxic.

I would also refrain from leading with Hitmonchan on a stall team like this, because I generally blow up on it immediately if I lead with Glalie, and having that happen to your team immediately puts you in a losing position with no way to really check something like Substitute + Bulk Up Vigoroth (who is generally going to be a huge issue regardless).

The first thing I would do is consider placing Toxic on both Flareon and Relicanth over Roar and Earthquake. I would then place Relicanth in the lead slot over Hitmonchan, especially since the major threat to lead Relicanth are lead Fire-types (HP Grass is mandatory coverage on them), and you have Flareon to take care of them. With Toxic on those two, Huntail then has no completely safe opportunities to set up rain, and stuff like BU Vigoroth without Substitute can be stalled out.

To help remedy the Huntail weakness, you could instead run a more offensive Chime set, a spread of 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD Modest always survives a rain Hydro Pump from full health, and Chime does ~65% back with Psychic, which should be more than enough if you hit it with Toxic or something as it sets up rain, also should put it in KO range of Mach Punch or Rock Slide if that doesn't kill it. Unfortunately, I really don't see a way to fix the Huntail weakness completely since the only hard counters are Dewgong and Kecleon (and Shedinja), and both of which you don't really have room for, meaning you'll probably have to lose Roselia or Sableye when they bring the fish out. I would also consider replacing Knock Off on Sableye with Protect to build up more Toxic damage without suffering damage in the meantime.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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In my experience attempting to stall in ADV NU I've found Lickitung to be a very essential member, providing Wish and Cleric in the same slot and imo being less problematic than Flareon, who can let Huntail set up. Fightings (Hitmonchan) are easier to handle and to wear down, imo, than Waters/Rocks/Grounds, so I find it can keep doing its job successfully for longer.

That said, full stall like this typically isn't going to be easy to pull off. Even when going stallish, you generally need at least one fast mon and two that can hit hard. I've found Band Pidgeot to fill this role nicely. Mawile can also be a nice tank with its steel typing, intimidate, and good power.

Two other small things:
Roselia's set makes it very problematic against anything that doesn't mind an HP Grass. You already beat most Water types by virtue of being a Grass Type and having Leech Seed. I've used the sneaky and overlooked Sludge Bomb before to get Poisons.

I also agree about not leading Hitmonchan.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, the more offensive chimecho sounds like a really cool idea, and putting relicanth in the lead seems like a pretty easy fix. As far as toxic, I had been kind of been going back and forth on toxic and roar on flareon already, however on relicanth im a bit reluctant to give up eq as it loses out on a lot of its offensive potential. Do you think a toxic protect set would be viable over restalk?

Will definitely try out lickitung over flareon as well to see how I like that, hadn't really considered it and it seems like a pretty cool poke. As far as something like pidgeot, I'm not entirely sure what to replace with it, what would you suggest?
 
This looks kind of like my team,so I feel that I can give a reasonable rate right here. OK first thing, Huntail unless you're running like Dewgong just stomps all over you, so I'd suggest going for possibly Dewgong>Relicanth,but that in turn gives no Normal/Flying resist, which weakens your matchup versus Normal type CB'ers sadly. Next is I think your fourth move on Hitmonchan should be Toxic so that you can't truly be spinblocked. Toxic stops Sableye from freely coming in to spin block while HP:Ghost takes care of Haunter. Another thing is that opposing Chimecho CM Wars are irritating,why not try CM/Rest/Recover/HP:Dark Sableye? It gives you a long lasting win condition and an easy check to Chimecho. Just some suggestions! Also as stated before Bulk Up Vigoroth is a pain if you lose Hitmonchan,so play carefully.I may as well RMT my own ADV NU team soon o3o

EDIT: I use Pidgeot as a panic button,its p great tbh, to clean up with.
 
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Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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Oh, don't actually change from full stall unless it just keeps not being able to handle specific offensive threats. Something like a Pidgeot is an emergency button. If you can manage without it, more power to you.

In my team, like I said, I condensed Wish + Cleric into one mon so I just had more space to play around with than you do. There's no obvious way for you to put an offensive mon onto the team as it is. I would obviously try to use Wish + Heal Bell Flareon or Chimecho if they were a thing in ADV but it's not legal on either, since they didn't get one of the moves until gen 4. In fact if you want those moves together in ADV your options are Lickitung (thanks to one random PCNY event) and... I think that's literally it. I might be wrong, though.

The set I've used is this (can't possibly remember what the EVs were meant to tank):
Lickitung @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 168 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Protect

You can also definitely use a different attack over Seismic Toss. Shadow Ball stands out since Ghosts might want to come in. But Lickitung actually has better Special Attack than Attack (lol), and it learns BoltBeam, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, and Surf, so you can really get whatever 1-move coverage you're looking for depending on what you want to stop.

tl;dr Lickitung is unique and cool
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
My later versions tended to have flareon over lickitung but idr why. Also sorry to spoil this but I think? Wish+Heal Bell is illegal on it. Anyway, flareon is still cool as it provides a hard counter to mawile; it has roar or toxic to prevent it being set up bait for tail [but aromatherapy or challenged of sustaining spikes are issues here]. Relicanth leading is a cool suggestion; running toxic on relicanth I worry isn't good enough though; Relicanth's last HP Electric is mainly for pelipper and to get decent damage on other resists.. there's little reason not to run hp grass in a time when relicanth is much more popular, as it lets you steamroll over certain types of teams :S I prefer body slam wish shadow ball on lickitung considering the heal bell illegality, if I'm running wish support on it, since being able to check haunter is really underrated on it. Also Oglemi's wrong, Kecleon doesn't hard counter huntail :[ and shedinja has the obvious issue of a spiker.. but could be worth considering.

In terms of a win condition: spikes+perish song is the traditional one for hard stall, and if not you need to think about it idk what u gonna do o3o

shedinja>sableye looks kinda legit tho, but fuck spikes.. and furthermore you'd need to run chan with that rather than tortle cos of vigoroth.. I guess you'd need BU+STAB alongside spin and HP Ghost to beat it. That with lead canth and you get to keep roar on flareon for extra hazard damage. ninja also counters haunter without hp fire :] and chime without hp dark
 
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Oglemi

Borf
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Kecleon doesn't hard counter but it comes close to countering lol, a RestTalk version with Thunder Wave or Toxic is going to at least limit Huntail to one rain attempt.

- Huntail Hydro Pump vs. Kecleon in Rain: 164-193 (50.6 - 59.5%) or Huntail Surf vs. Kecleon in Rain: 130-153 (40.1 - 47.2%)
- Huntail Hidden Power Electric vs. (Water) Kecleon: 86-102 (26.5 - 31.4%)
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Kecleon doesn't hard counter but it comes close to countering lol, a RestTalk version with Thunder Wave or Toxic is going to at least limit Huntail to one rain attempt.
unless it's paired with something with heal bell/aromatherapy =/ and stall's kinda too passive to really stop that happening easily.
 

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