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NU Trickroom Guide (Discussion)

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by kniteowl, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. kniteowl

    kniteowl

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    342
    Please Discuss, any recommendations / changes are welcomed.

    Introduction

    Welcome to the Trick room guide, here are some ideas to get you started and what to expect.

    Trick room teams are generally hyper offensive but instead of using hard hitting quick and usually frail pokemon, you're using hard hitting slow pokemon most of which are decently bulky with a few exceptions.

    Expect most rick room teams to carry 3 trick room summoners and 3 trick room sweepers. Some pokemon can play more then one specific roles on a team so mix and match and test out what best suits you.

    I hope you enjoy reading this guide and please post any new creative ideas and sets, although most of the viable pokemon have been already been posted on this guide. It never hurts to try something different because it does get boring, playing with the same pokemon and it's always fun playing against the odds.

    Trick room Support

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    One of the most used pokemon in the tier, Capable of filling almost any role on the trick room team, from full support to sweeper, although it's main attraction is U-turn and Healing wish. U-turn gives you the momentum when switching out and Healing wish allows one of your trick room sweepers to be healed up and sweep again at full health for another 3 turns.

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    The two things that stand out on Exeggutor's stats are it's magnificent base 125 Special Attack and poor 55 speed. The Poor speed is prefect in trick room allowing Exeggutor to do double duty of Trick room summoner and sweeper. He also has Access to sleep powder to allow you to set trick room up again

    How you ask me?

    on the final turn of trick room (after 4 turns including the turn you set up trick room) use sleep powder to take out one pokemon and set up trick room again.

    He also has explosion if you want to go down the suicide route allowing one of your sweepers to come in unharmed.

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    With her impressive 116/85/95 bulk and access to moonlight, Mushurna is the reliable go to pokemon to set up trick room time and time again and she's no Slouch either with a decent base 107 Special Attack, although not the strongest, she can deal some decent damage and break substitutes.

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    The bulky ghost of NU, Misdreavus has the bulk to set up trick room and hasa myriad of options to support your team such as will-o-wisp to burn those pesky dark types attempting to pursuit your dark weak trick room Brethren. Pain-split for recovery (although unreliable) and taunt to stop those walls attempting to stalll out trick room like wish/protect lickylicky and Audio. Momento and Destiny Bond to suicide, allowing one of your sweeper to come in unharmed

    With access to Nasty plot Misdreavus can attempt to sweep similar to Cofagrigus in RU with Shadow ball and Hidden Power - Fighting for perfect coverage. Misdreavus base special attack is only 10 points lower then Cofagrigus so it can be pulled off if the conditions are right

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    One of the few useful non psychic or ghost types capable of setting up trick room. Which means porygon doesn't suffer from a weakness to dark types unlike the other trick room users except for stantler, spinda, Kecleon & Audio.

    Porygon is more useful anyway, out of the 6 normal-type trick room users in the tier (Girafarig is normal/psychic), because it has access to recover, allowing Porygon to come in multiple times to set up trick room

    Access to magic coat to bounce back support moves, because players love to toxic porygon and set up hazards on it because it usually doesn't hit very hard.

    I personally recommend Download over trace, although trace is a useful ability on paper, all the good abilities have been taken and used in the higher tiers, things like water absorb laparas and lightning rod raichu are not common enough to warrant the use of trace.

    You can benefit more from Download on the other hand as the tier is general physicial bulk orientated allowing your special atttacks to hit harder.

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    Natu craves out a niche for itself as a trick room user. It has the significant ability to block and bounce back Trick room's biggest enemy TAUNT and PHASING (I don't use american english sorry)

    Taunt, roar and whirlwind are trick room's biggest enemies because trick room always goes last so if your opponent has a pokemon with one of those moves, trick room is effectively stopped, there's obviously phasing moves that deal damage like dragon tail and circle throw but their distribution in the lower tiers are scarce.

    Being able to Set up trick room without being stopped by taunt. roar and whirlwind is a major plus for Natu, give an evolite and bulk investment and it's bulkier then you expect, access to roost and u-turn allow Natu to do it's job, round out the set with night shade allowing natu to do enough damage to break substitutes that aren't 101 HP.

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    Banette is the very definition of a suicide lead Trick room user.

    Low base stats in bulk and speed and a high Attack stat allows Banette to fit into a very niche role of lead suicide trick room summoner.

    Banette's main weakness last generation were taunt leads and with team preview, taunt users could switch into lead position and force Banette out before the battle even starts but not anymore as the 5th generation gave Banette a very useful tool, with the upgrade to magic coat, Banette can now block and reflect taunt if predicted correctly.

    Now instead Banette suffers from 4 move slot syndrome between trick room, taunt, magic coat, shadow claw and destiny bond.

    If you're feeling risky, you can bluff a focus sash and carry a mental herb instead to cure taunt and set up Trick room unhalted, but generally focus sash is the better item.

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    One of the top special walls in the tier, Audino also has the part time job of Trick room summoner. With the highly useful regenerator ability, Audino can come in multiples times to set up trick room and switch out and immediately regain health.

    If your trick room team suffers from a major ghost or dark type weakness and Evolite Porygon doesn't appeal to you for what ever reason. Audino is your next best option.

    Although she doesn't have as much bulk as evolite Porygon and she doesn't hit as hard. She is different enough to warrant using over Porygon. She'd not forced to use evolite like Porygon, although most set are likely to use leftovers further increasing her longevity.

    She also has a selection of useful support moves with Wish, Encore, Heal Bell Yawn and the rare healing wish. The Trick room and Healing wish combination is only shared with 2 other pokemon, Mespriit has already been mentioned above, while Gardeviour has too much competition with others on this list that can do the job better.

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    Besides Misdreavus, Beheeyem is the only other Trick room user in the tier that can pull off a Trick Room + Nasty Plot Set and have neutral coverage with two moves Psychic & Thunderbolt.

    Beheeyem probably does this set better with the shear power of his stats alone, base 125 SpA and base 40 Speed means he'll out speed and smack everything in the tier silly, just be careful of priority users, especially sucker punch.

    A set with Trick room and 3 attacks with a life orb works just as well, if you're having trouble setting up Nastyplot.

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    Reuniclus Version 2

    Despite being the pre-evolved version of Reuniclus. Duosion still keeps it's amazing base 125 SpA. Magic Guard should generally be the only real reason to use Duosion as a Trick room summoner over the others on this list as an immunity to passive damage to status, entry hazards and life orb recoil means Duosion will last longer then other Trick room sweepers, as long as she doesn't get hit.

    Being a pre-evolved pokemon means Duosion has low defences and more vulnerable then the others. If the low bulk is unappealing, Duosion can carry an evolite and run recover to tank hits and stick around a little bit longer.

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    After an evolite and maximum investment, it is physically bulkier then Slowbro. Regenerator and Slack off give it further longevity and has a monopoly on the Trick room Belly Drum combination. Don't ever underestimate this guy or he'll make you regret it.

    *Testing & Work in Progress*

    Trick Room Sweepers

    Remember trick room sweepers need to be slow and hit hard immediately, you only have 3 turns of speed advantage, sometimes wasting 1 turn to boost your offences may be wasteful, if you can use that extra turn to eliminate one of your opponent's pokemon instead

    Why 3 turns?

    Setting up trick room counts as one turn, and switching out to your sweeper counts as another turn, so your sweeper effectively only have 3 turns.

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    With access to guts and stab Facade, Ursaring hits like a Tank and with access to great coverage in Close combat and Crunch to take out ghost, steels and rocks. Nothing but priority and smart switching/stalling can stop this beast. Just slap on a Toxic Orb and watch your guts boosted Ursaring run through the team in a rampage.

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    At first glance (at least for me) Emboar doesn't seem like a effective trick room sweeper. but when you look at it as a mixed sweeper or wall breaker and realize you only have 3 turns to effectively use trick room. Emboar is actually an effective trick room wall breaker.

    High Power Dual stabs allow you to catch your opponent off guard if they're expecting you to run pure physical or special.

    Super power (base 120) and Overheat (base 140) allow you break a team and round off coverage with either wild charge or Grass knot in the third slot. The last slot is filler, I personally run flame thrower if I'm not use what to use first because of smart switching by my opponent.

    I know using super power and overheat only takes up 2 turns, I usually use the last turn to suicide emboar with Wild charge + life orb recoil, or If I Can save him, switch in a resist and set up trick room again.

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    You probably heard this already, but Zweilous has the strongest Outrage in the game. If you haven't? NOW YOU KNOW.

    Zweilous is slow and can sweep effectively in trick room. If you can somehow switch this guy in (most likely after a suicide) Slap on a choice band and Zweilous will destory everything in sight but the shakey 80% accuracy from hustle maybe a big turn off. You can run an evolite if you want Zweilous to take a hit in case you miss because of hustle.

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    With the highest attack in the tier (heck 2nd highest in the entire game, only beaten by Deoxy-A) a base 150 STAB in head smash and a speed low enough to take advantage of. Rampardos fits right at home on a Trick room team. Good luck finding a way to switch him in, as he's relatively frail.

    With Mold breaker and Earthquake, this guy really only needs two moves for coverage. The last two slots are generally considered filler. Some niche moves can be used to take out specific rare counters. Stone Edge can be used on the same set if you want you want to keep Rampardos in a little bit longer if Head Smash + Life Orb recoil has taken it's toll.

    Or just maximise Rampardos's power with a choice banded Head Smash, The majority of the tier won't come out alive (ie be either OHKO or 2HKO) unless he misses of course (head Smash is only 80% accurate).

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    With a Thick Club Item and a Adamant nature Marawak's attack reaches 568

    To put this in perspective. An adamant max attack deoxy (base 150) with life orb reach 569.4, while a adamant max attack Haxorus (base 147) reaches 561.6.

    That's a lot of fire power power Marowak is carrying in that club. Professor Oak should test it some day, I swear it must be some kind Nuclear Warhead inside :P.

    This pokemon also has the move pool to leverage it's amazing attack too with Recoiless Double Edge With Rock Head, the elemental punches and much much more.

    If you're feeling risk you can run sword dance or Belly drum to ramp up it's destructive capability but remember you only have 3 turns to take advantage it, well 2 turns if you set up.

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    Absol is actually the Fastest Trick room sweeper on the list with base 75 speed, uninvested with 0 IVs and a Negative Nature, he only reaches 167 speed, which means in trick room, anay pokemon that has a base 65 speed uninvested will out speed him in trick room.

    Under normal circumstances he would be considered slow, in the NU tier, most players believe average to be around base 85, which would make Absol's speed middling which would be a major down fall for a Trick room sweeper.

    BUT Absol has a few of things going for it, base 130 attack, Stab Priority Sucker punch and Neutral coverage with two moves in Super power and Night Slash combined with the hax potential Super luck gives Absol the opportunity to break through any wall with a little bit of luck. Access to X-scissor and Psycho Cut gives it some moving room to take down particular threats such as Tangela and Gurdurr attempting to wall or scare it away. Finally Sword dance make this guy really dangerous, inside or outside of trick room as Stab +2 Sucker punch hurts.

    Just remember your speed tiers both inside and outside of trick room, knowing when to use Sucker punch and when not to use it and also remember the odd Substitute user and you should be fine with this guy

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    With base 115 Offensive Stats on both sides of the Spectrum, Dual Stab and being the only mixed sweeper with access to Priority Sucker punch. Cacturne has some staying power outside of trick room being able to hit faster threats.

    This generation also gave Cacturne a new toy in the ability, Water Absorb but at the cost of losing key moves such as Giga drain and Dark pulse because they are generation 4 tutor moves.

    With an amazing move pool, Cacturne is capable of running multiple sets with access to sword dance, nasty plot, and even choice sets (has access to Switcheroo). Even Support moves such as Destiny Bond and the lesser extent Spikes, keep the offensive up and makes your opponent guessing what kind of move set you really have?

    Personally my most successful set has been a Mixed set attempting to hit everything possible in the tier, sometimes finishing off the opponent with a surprising Destiny Bond, Spikes can be used in the lead to Bluff a Support set only for your opponent to find out later in the match that Cacturne can carry it's weigh. Just be sure to carry a ghost to block those rapid spins.

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    On the surface it may look like Emboar Outclasses Camerupt with an immediate higher damage output with great mixed offensive stats and high powered stabs but there's a couple of things Emboar would kill for that Camerupt has.

    Eruption combined with a slight higher Special Attack, should generally be the main reason to use Camerupt over Emboar. Slap on a pair of classy choice Specs and anything that doesn't resist or have an immunity to it will be burnt to a crisp. Combined with a reliable Stab in Earth Power and a choice between Overheat or Fire Blast as an alternative once Eruption's power has been diminished and you portable Volcano capable of turning a team into Goo.

    Alternatively you can carry an expert belt and run a mixed set with Earthquake which hits harder then earth power and Stone Edge for neutral Coverage, and you'll never have to worry about burns.

    Add on to the fact that Solid rock allows Camerupt to take a Super effective hit (not water) and being a common Magmotar switch in. Camerupt has plenty of chances to reck havoc.

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    Octillery is more or less in the same boat as Camerupt above, as the main reason you should use it for is Water Spout, Which is basically a water type Eruption. Combined with it's insanely massive offensive move pool, Octillery has an answer to almost everything, if only it has move move slots.

    The other minor reasons to use it would be better bulk beacuse his only other water type competition Clampearl and the ability Suction Cups if your team starts out on the back foot unable to set up trick room because of a phaser.

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    Glaceon's main niche is being the only ice type on this list and having a massive base 130 special attack with neutral coverage in only 2 moves

    Sadly the good news end there, being stealth rock weak and having a poor move pool forces basically every Glaceon set to be exactly the same.

    Ice beam
    Hidden Power - Electric
    Shadow ball
    Filler

    Is basically the move set every Glaceon is likely to be running, although the last move is generally unimportant.

    Personally to me it's a toss up between Sleep talk, Substitute

    If you're running Choice Specs, Sleep talk should be used as it allows you to absorb sleep from the likes of Tangela, Exeggcutor and Jynx while Substitute on Life Orb sets allows you to dodge Suckerpunch from the likes of Absol and make Prediction easier.

    I wouldn't recommend Baton Pass even for scouting because of the prevalence Stealth rock everywhere lowering Glaceon's Longevity .

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    Don't be fooled by Clamperl's baby face and charms; she's one of the most deadly Pokemon in UU. DeepSeaTooth doubles her Special Attack stat, giving her more immediate power than even the feared Deoxys-A. However, without her signature item, Clamperl is essentially useless. Clamperl also has awful Speed, making Trick Room a necessity to her success. If you can provide adequate support for her, Clamperl will be a dangerous addition to your team.

    Although Clamperl is slow and frail, she hits like a truck. When Trick Room is in effect, Clamperl becomes one of the fastest Pokemon in the game. Additionally. DeepSeaTooth doubles Clamperl's Special Attack to an insane 542, turning her into a dangerous threat when used correctly. Surf provides reliable STAB, Ice Beam hits Grass-types, and Hidden Power Grass is for rival Water-types, like Quagsire. Finally, Brine deals more damage to weakened opponents, which is especially helpful against Lickylicky and Audino, while Toxic cripples defensive Pokemon who are difficult to get past. Keep in mind that when using Clamperl, it is very important that you switch her in unscathed, as her defenses are very low.

    * The Above was copied from Clampearl's Smogondex from generation 4*

    Obviously, nothing much has changed for Clampearl in trick room, she works just as well this generation as last generation with the exact same set. The only exception I would recommend is to use Substitute in the last slot to dodge Sucker punch from the likes of Absol while in trick room and it make prediction easier if your opponent tries to double and triple switch attempting to stall out trick room.

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    Ever been in the position where your trick room sweeper had been stopped and KO'ed leaving you with one turn of trick room left, where you had to decide between revenging your opponent with one of your sweepers or switching in a trick room Summoner, having to stall for one turn in order to set up trick room again?

    Well Eelektross fills that roll perfectly with access with both U-turn and Volt Switch allowing your team to keep up the offensive momentum while allowing you to switch in the correct counter/checks to your opponent to set up trick room again.

    With Great mixed offences with Base 115 Attack and base 105 Special Attack, reasonable 85/80/80 bulk and poor base 50. Eelektross makes his home in the trick room team as a momentum stealer with Volt-turn and still reliably sweep with great offensive power, add in his diverse offensive move pool with access to moves like flame thrower and grass knot and there aren't many safe switch ins even if they can safely switch in Volt-turn will allow Eelektross to switch out while still dealing damage.

    Although Eelektross doesn't need the diverse move pool with great coverage in two moves in Thunderbolt & Hidden Power - Ice, the extra coverage does help, especially grass knot hitting Quagsire. although it isn't really necessary if you can switch out with U-turn then come with a threatening grass type or a user of a grass move.

    Personally my best Eelektross sets have either been purely Special or mixed sets. Although he can run a physical set because his physical attack is higher then his Special Attack, Eelektross physical move pool is limited in terms of coverage compared to his special move pool, add on to the fact that Wild Charge has a lower base power then thunderbolt and causes recoil make a physical set quite unappealing to me.

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    With a great base 125 attack stat and low base 45 speed, dual stab bug/rock stab. Armaldo fits the roll of a trick room sweeper quite well, if it weren't for the fact that Rampardo classes it in terms of pure power in rock stab and it's bug typing brings it a Stealth rock weakness so even it's bulk is brought in question with 25% less health every time you switch in while rocks are up.

    But there is an up side to Armaldo, Rapid Spin. Although most trick room teams don't need Spin support as much as other teams due to it's hyper offensive nature and most pokemon abusing trick room don't have a stealth rock weakness. It is a significant point worth examining as some trick room users such as Natu and Trick room sweepers such as Galceon and the lesser extent Camerupt and Octillery (Eruption and Water Spout) benefit from a battle field clear of hazards.

    Armaldo is probably the only pokemon in the tier that can fulfil the role of both rapid spinner and trick room sweeper with it's move pool and offensive stats.

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    The Fighting Type with the highest Attack Stat (base 100) , access to Guts and Stab Close Combat. Machoke can fulfil the role as a fighting type guts abuser in trick room and check Absol at the same time(although a relatively unreliable check).

    Machoke fulfils the Trick room Sweeper role relatively well but is out classed by Ursaring if you're only looking for a guts abuser but if you're looking for a little bit more, such as different typing and access to priority (bullet punch) Machoke is the alternative.

    Toxic Orb is the item of choice for this Machoke, Evolulite should not be considered because Trick room is a hyper offensive playstyle and you want to be getting those key OHKOs, 2HKOs. If you want a better Absol check, you're better off using Emboar (above) or evolulite Gurrdur (in the Paragraph below under Honourable mentions).

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    Another Guts user worth Mentioning, Electric/Normal Coverage in Wild Charge and Facade hits everything in the tier neutrally except Golem, Cradily and Golett and we all know how common the latter two are. Wild Charge Recoil combined with Toxic Damage decreases Luxray's longevity but a lot of people use Swellow in the tier which suffers the same fate, as long as you can do enough damage to your opponent, Luxray would have fulfilled his job.

    *Testing & Work in Progress*

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    The only Mixed Water type with good bulk (unlike clampearl) and access to Hydro pump allowing him to use Life orb (unlike Ocillery who doesn't like recoil). Aqua Jet and Megahorn warrant enough of a niche to give him a spot.

    *Testing & Work in Progress*

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    Base 115 SpA allows him to hit harder then Eelektross but his ability Static is more of a nuisance to the team because it makes your opponent faster in trick room, While Running his Dream World ability "plus" forces him to miss out on useful support moves like heal bell and magnet rise.

    *Testing & Work in Progress*

    Threats
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    Absol is the bane of all trick room team that you should prepare for. If unprepared for this pokemon it's more or less GG, expect this guy to tear your team apart piece by piece but there are ways around him.

    If Trick room isn't in effect, NEVER EVER give this guy a chance to set up sword dance, he is likely to break everything in your team with the exception of specific counters such as Gurrdur.

    If trick room is in effect and Absol is likely attempt to revenge you with priority, substitute is your best friend as a significant portion of the trick room sweepers are likely to carry substitute such as Marowak, Clampearl, Glaceon, Rampardos and evolite Zweilous but your opponent can always out predict you.


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    In Trick Room, Amoonguss out speeds anything that has a Base Speed higher then 51 and will take out one of your team member with Spore.

    Out side of sleep inducing one of your pokemon Amoonguss isn't really that dangerous but being down 5-6 can eventually contribute to your eventual defeat.

    Ways to around Amoonguss would be to switch in poekmon status induced such has guts users like Guts Ursaring and Machoke. Sleep Talk user can also absorb sleep like Galceon can work too.

    But if your have to lose one of your pokemon to sleep, use your own judgement. I personally try to keep my trick room team balanced by having the same number of trick room summoners and sweeper on my team.

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    Not as significant as the other major threats Musharna can be very intimidating especially if you let it get some clam mind boost.

    With her immense bulk, Musharna can take hits and recover, and in trick room being so slow. Musharna is likely to Recover first before a significant number of your trick room sweeper hit her, basically tying with any pokemon with a base 50 speed with a negative nature and 0 IVs. The only Base 50 speed pokemon on the trick room sweeper list is Eelektross but usually carries 2 IVs in order to maximise the damage output of Hidden Power - Ice.

    The best way to take down Musharna is to hit her as hard as possible (if possible with a super effective move) before she can boost with calm mind. If that isn't possible because she can outspeed you, then you'll have to rely on some heavy hitters on the physical side, hopefully putting enough offensive pressure on her until trick room stalls out and hitting her when you out speed her.

    Alternative options if you have them are to taunt her with pokemon like Misdreavus, or status her with toxic or sleep like Exeggcutor. if you out speed her, Destiny bond users can surprise your opponent.

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    Muk and other Curse users in the Tier can be problematic especially in trick room where they would out speed you because they've lowered their speed and raised their physical bulk making it more difficult for your physical sweepers to break through.

    Muk appearing to be easily countered due to the massive number of Psychics to use on your team but be weary of Shadow sneak and shadow punch because Muk is capable of using it. It is also very bulky usually having a full investment in HP and Special Defence which Muk could easily 2hko your counter with a heavy attack then finish you off with shadow sneak if it survives a OHKO

    With curse users in general, it's probably best to keep up offensive pressure until trick room stalls out then hit them on their weaker side, just be careful of priority as most curse user will usually carry a priority move.

    Honourable Mentions

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    Trapinch has a very rare niche on a trick room team because he can't outright be considered a sweeper with his decent base 100 attack stat but is less then desired for a trick room sweeper but he does fill the role as a revenger being able to trap and eliminate opposing pokemon if trick room is in effect, some examples are Magmotar, Exeggcutor, Camerupt etc.... he can obviously also take down weakness bulky threats like Regirock and Tangela.

    Base 100 attack and Stab Earthquake means he hits harder then Dugtrio. Rockslide to hit Flying types and Crunch to Hit levitating Psychics and ghost, rounds out the coverage perfectly, throw in Quick Attack in the last slot for Priority means Trapinch isn't a sitting duck outside of trick room.

    As a Revenger he works best with a Choice band or Life-Orb, Choice Band gives him the role of a pure revenger while Life-Orb gives him some flexibility to switch moves.

    Being a Not Fully Evolved without an Evolite means he's a very frail pokemon so switch him in with discretion, being a ground type means he can switch into electric moves with immunity but he is unlikely to survive neutral or even resisted hits even with a fully invested HP so his best bets are switching in after something else on your team is KO-ed.

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    Absol being one of the biggest threats to trick room teams and one of the most used pokemon in the NU tier. Trick room team builders look towards a check or counter to Absol (who could potentially be a team killer) and can still work well on a trick room team.

    Gurrdur is that pokemon. After an evolite and the right investment, Gurdurr can tank hits, bulk up and recover health with Drain punch.

    He works exactly the same both outside and inside of trick room, the only real difference is hitting first with drain punch and recover some health, extending his longevity.

    The main reason Gurrdur should be on any trick room team is to check the common Absol. Gurrdur is likely to beat every Absol with the exception of cirictial hits and the very few that carry Psycho Cut. Absol suffers from 4 Move Slot Syndrome so if he' carrying Psycho cut he's likely has inferior coverage or be choice locked, if he's carrying a choice item so in that case your trick room team can play around him in both cases.

    Mental Herb

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    Generation 5 introduced a new item that could potentially be a game changer on every trick room team.

    Mental Herb Cures the effects of Disable, Encore, Torment and most importantly of all Taunt, basically Mental herb will give your pokemon a one time the opportunity to set up trick room without being stopped by taunt.

    This is very important if your opponent's main strategy of countering your trick room team is by Taunting your trick room summoners, if you can just set up trick room once, your opponent is on the back foot and you get a 3-4 turns to attack first. This is especially a huge advantage if your opponent's team is a hyper offensive team full of fast and frail pokemon, they would have to rely on smart switching to stall out trick room's affect.

    Although the item is considered gimmicky as there are better items to consider such has leftovers, it is worth examining if your team needs it because trick room teams are considered hyper offensive, if you can reliably set up trick room regardless of what your opponent can do to counter it, the 3-4 turns of trick can determine the winner.

    The item is probably best used on Bulky Defensive pokemon such as Musharna and Mespirit. Musharna also has reliable recover, although the extra leftovers recovery is beneficial, you can't deny the value of a one time taunt immune trick room allowing a you early game advantage.
  2. Brammi

    Brammi

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,769
    Audino and Banette want a word.
  3. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    504
    CB Torterra anyone?
  4. Demist

    Demist

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    340
    Ok, this is nice! I'm one of those who tried to abuse Trick Room in NU. And it has a potential to work properly. As Brammi said both Banette and Audino has a niche in TR teams. Also Dousion is one of better TR'mer due to ability to set up TR and any damage from base 125 SpA is never welcome to opposing team. Lampent is also formidable member for TR team, being naturaly slow and being able to set up TR. As for sweepers I'm most likely going to sound like an idiot, but Hustle Darumaka is legit. When you first look at it, it's like: So frail! Rock weakness! But reaching 459 attack with no items is something you wouldn't want to miss. It might be laughable and sound dumb, but try it before actually saying it's shit. Thank you ^^ I hope I helped
  5. Brammi

    Brammi

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,769
    Gigalith, Duosion, Lairon, Gurdurr, Machoke, Armaldo, Throh, Golem, Eelektross, Beartic, Gorebyss, Wailord, Seviper and Kingler all are wondering why their list of TR sweepers is bigger than the one in the thread.
  6. Vitalise

    Vitalise

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    94
    Lol, Where is Trapinch. That thing wrecks under trickrooom
  7. The Reptile

    The Reptile make it rain
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
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    This might sound wierd, but where the fuck is Keckleon? Also, you're sweeper list is missing like half of the viable sweepers, js.
  8. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    If we're going to discuss Trick Room we don't have to list every slow and vaguely powerful Pokemon lol, I'm pretty sure everyone understands that. It just so happens that NU has a crapton of slow and powerful Pokemon! The main ones were listed. PS Brammi: every one of the TR "sweepers" you listed is severely outclassed by one of the already listed sweepers except maybe Machoke, Eelektross, and Armaldo.
  9. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it, but to be honest, I don't have the time to test out every trick room summoner and sweeper to find their niche as to whether they deserve a spot on this thread or not.

    Maybe a Brief introduction and explaination to why you would use one trick room supporter/sweeper over another. Something like What I already posted on my guide above so all I need to do is just copy and paste and maybe some tweaking in the grammar and spelling (although my grammar and spelling are terrible lol)

    What tennisace said

    They really need to stand out enough for you to warrant using them. I don't know what the criteria should be but if there's something else on the list that does it better then you should use the one that does it better, unless you want a challenge or if the niche is significant enough to warrant using pokemon A over Pokemon B.

    I just personally prefer using pokemon with high attacking stats and high powered stabs and coverage moves.

    I added their pictures, what kind of sets would you recommend?

    Bannette to me seems less effective then last generation because of team preview. All your opponent needs is a faster taunt user and set up entry hazard to nullify focus sash so it really doesn't do it's job, at least in my point of view, i could be wrong.

    As for Audino, I can only think of a (Wish/Protect/trick room/ Attack) set which seems meh to me, unless until her Dream world ability regenerator is released)

    EDIT: My bad, regenerator isn't her dream world ability. I wonder why I believed it was a DW abiltiy in the 1st place lol

    Yeah I can see her as a bulky Trick room, regenerator user.
  10. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
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    I just have input on this. I experimented with TR a little bit earlier, and Banette never really failed to get up Trick Room (and actually hit moderately hard, which surprised me). You have to keep in mind that Taunt is barely even present in NU. The only Pokemon I can think of that has it is Serperior and that's not even that common.
  11. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    ^ I did a little research and noticed Banette receives Magic coat to counter taunt users if necessary and there's always Mental herb but focus sash is generally more useful.
  12. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
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    Not to be a dick and add even more mons but I think these are Pokemon with a unique niche in the meta-

    [​IMG] This guy is an obvious candidate, with ridiculously low speed and the ever-annoying Spore in a meta that HATES status. The reason I chose him over Parasect, however, is that he isn't completely useless besides. He can absorb toxic spikes, which I think we can all agree totally wreck our best teams. As far as dealing with swellow or magmortar, he has Stun Spore at his disposal, as well as a pretty strong hidden power rock that SR weak Pokemon that are usually taking poison or life orb damage will NOT enjoy. He also can use Clear Smog to prevent set up, Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb for solid STAB, etc. He's a good 'mon that doesn't get walked on out of TR, certainly worth considering.

    [​IMG]Another often-forgotten normal type- and who could blame us, with so many good options? Granbull has some really high attack stats that he can abuse with some AWESOME coverage options, like Close Combat and Crunch. He can even boost his attack to high levels with Bulk Up- and with Intimidate, he's actually quite physically bulky. STAB fighting and such great physical bulk allow him to muscle through the things that stop Swellow and the like (see Brammi's thread). He can even endure a Thunder Wave, obviously, so no problems.

    [​IMG]So, why is beartic NOT outclassed by Glaceon? Simple- SD can boost his attack to astronomical levels, while he can muscle his way through several pokemon with Superpower / Brick Break, Shadow Claw, or even Stone Edge. His movepool is so vast that you can't count on anything to stop him.

    These aren't the only options, far from it, but I don't want you guys to give up on this thread yet when there's so much else left to use~!
  13. Steamroll

    Steamroll Tasty
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    Granbull is a pure normal-type. He doesn't exactly have the bulk to get more than one BU off and the speed is really a hindrance. Quick Feet alleviates it to an extent but really takes away on Granbull's longevity (but it outspeeds Kadabra!!!) and can really make him susceptible to priority attacks. Pretty much Granbull is the type of mon you BUILD A TEAM AROUND, not the one you just throw into a team.
  14. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

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    Isn't this a TR discussion thread? Speed shouldn't really be a problem, if your using him on a Trickroom team.
  15. The Reptile

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    In trick room, Granbull is largely outclassed by Ursaring. Ursaring gets the same coverage as Granbull and has similar stats, but Ursaring get's Guts, which blows Granbull out of the water in Trick Room. (since survivability is less of a concern in Trick Room, and Toxic Orb doesn't hurt too much when you only get 3 turns) It has a niche in Intimidate, but the extra bulk granted by Intimidate usually isn't important in Trick Room due to the fact that you only get 3 turns to sweep anyways. (which is also why I dislike Set-Up Trick Room Sweepers like SD Beartric). Not saying he isn't strong or powerful, but I really don't see a reason to use Granbull over Ursaring. As for Amoonguss, unless it's an offensive set (which wouldn't be so swell, since 85 SpAtk is meh), I don't see it having a place in Trick Room except for Spore, which I don't think many Trick Room teams can find the teamslot just for 100% Spore. (Usually 3 Trick Roomers and 3 Attacks, some exceptions for stuff like Duosion and Beheeyem, who can set up and cause havoc)
  16. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    I've been running NU trick room for a very long time now, and I can with out a doubt say that there are a few sweepers and TR users that stand out above the rest in my opinion.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Trick Room Users:

    Mesprit: Healing Wish, Stealth Rock, and Trick Room all make Mesprit an excellent support Pokemon. I have a gimmick set with Lagging Tail and U-Turn on my current team in order to safely switch in my TR sweeper. Works wonderfully, and usually very easy to get a Healing Wish off if need be.

    Exeggutor: OTR user to the extreme. Sleep Powder + Trick Room is an awesome combination. Leaf Storm hits like a truck with a boosting nature, and Exeggutor even has Explosion to guarantee a safe switch in. This thing really is great.

    Musharna: I hate this thing, but it can almost always set up a Trick Room. I find it better in Double battles due to its sick support move pool, but this thing is pretty solid if you want a guaranteed way to get up Trick Room.

    Duosion: Little Reuniclus is a boss. TR + LO is a monster set, and it has perfect coverage with Psychic / Shadow Ball / HP Fighting. The only thing that beats this thing are Specially Defensive mosters and Sucker Punch users. What a boss.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Trick Room Sweepers

    Marowak
    : One of if not the best one hands down. Marowak can literally 2HKO the entire tier with Thick Club boost. I've been running a pure coverage set with EQ / SE / Fire Punch / ThunderPunch and it's been working wonders. Of course, it's Amoonguss bait, but most TR teams are because that Fucking Mushroom is so goddamn slow -_-

    Clampearl: It's like a reallyyyyyy slow Gorebyss, but doesn't have to waste a move slot for Shell Smash (though there's not much else to go there). Clampearl really is an amazing TR Pokemon just because of Deep Sea Tooth doubling its Special. I cannot count how many times I've owned with this thing

    Zweilous: Aside from the fact that Hustle is the goddamn worst ability in the game, this thing really is as awesome as people say. CB Zweilous in TR is pretty frightening, and even hits Steels like Bastiodon for like 33% (which is a lot, it's a fucking Bastiodon). Removing the steels with something like Marowak and it just can wreak holes in your opponents team.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Honorable Mention

    Amoonguss
    : Fuck this thing. It's literally one of the slowest goddamn Pokemon ever, and trolls me every time I use TR, but in itself, it's actually a pretty cool support Pokemon to use in Trick Room. A fast Spore is a scary Spore, and it basically equals a Knockout unless your opponent has Natural Cure or Heal Bell (or is really lucky). This thing is a bitch, and a vein to every TR team.
  17. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    ^ Thanks for your input Mike.

    Do you have any input for other Trick room threats?

    Such as Opposing Musharna and Muk?
  18. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    Like I said about Musharna, it is mainly there for support. It's not really so much a threat to Trick Room teams, it kind of just.....sits there. CB Crunch from Zweilous dominates it.

    Muk is meh in NU in general. Poison STAB with an unreliable Gunk Shot is really not too threatening. If it somehow manages to Curse, it could be a tad tricky, but not a main threat to Trick Room teams as a whole.

    Priority is probably one of the main things to worry about when using Trick Room. Absol, Cacturne, Linoone, Swellow, etc all have a fast way to hit these guys. The nice thing about TR is that each Pokemon has HP investment, so it can usually take a priority hit, but definitely something to worry about. That's mainly the reason I'm debating on running Sub on my Marowak, to avoid that priority Sucker Punch hit.

    Taunt obviously is a huge threat, because it's fairly obvious which Pokemon on the team are TR users. Even if you predict Taunt and attack, you're crippled.

    Eelektross deserves a mention because it's naturally slow and bulky, so it can usually live a hit and fire off a powerful blow on almost any TR sweeper, bar a few who resist its coverage.

    Quagsire can be annoying for the same reason, it's really slow. Probably worth a mention since it can ruin physical sweepers days.

    Phasing is not too much of a threat for TR, it's annoying, but when is it not for any team?

    I'll add some more imput to this later on, but I think I covered a lot.
  19. Tahu

    Tahu

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    So I'm not alone after all. That thing is a stupidly good revenge killer under Trick Room. It's got excellent Attack (for NU), Arena Trap, and a very exact movepool that just works for it (EQ, Rock Slide, Crunch, Return, Quick Attack) make it awesome.
  20. Sabinfrost

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    All these these trick room teams really need MOAR slowpoke.

    Max HP, Max Def w/ Eviolite + Regen, that thing will set up trick room fer days.

    You can calm mind or run a SPD variant (yeah, his SpD is shit, really all his stats are shit but hey, he has regen and big HP) and pack curse for some Zen Headbutt madness.

    Calling it now,

    Poke
    Zwelious
    Torkoal (Wut u know bout trick room spinner)
    Exeggutor
    Marowak
    Misdreavus

    Take that for a core and some serious threats.
  21. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    slowpoke sounds decent, except for the fact that slowpoke has absolutely no offensive presence, or way to support the team in any other way such has healing wish, along with shitty Spdef, meaning mesprit is the better choice in typing and stats most of the time, the theres also audiNO (only time to use it is on a trick room team) which gets everything slowpoke gets
  22. The Reptile

    The Reptile make it rain
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    ^ To add to what Molten said, Audino doesn't have a Psychic-type, and while Normal-type isn't the best defensive ability, it's pretty good in Trick Room due to the fact that most Trick Roomers are either Psychic or Ghost.

    On a separate note, Kecleon is an interesting Trick Roomer, having an amazing base 120 Special Defense and an ok base 90 Attack. What makes him interesting is Color Change. While he will never get a consistent STAB and it can sometimes back fire, it allows him to be types that other trick roomers would love to be. For example, if you know the opponent is going to use a water move, you can switch him in and boom, you have a bulky water for one turn. While he might not be the best, and is probably outclassed by Audino, he could be really interesting.

    EDIT: He also gets Stealth Rock
  23. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    The reason I put Slowpoke on the list because on paper he looked like he might have a niche.

    Compared to other Psychics he's probably not worth using at all but compared to other users of regenerator, his only competition is Audino, and they both have different typing. If you for whatever reason want to use Trick room summoner with regenerator AND psychic/water typing and a slightly different move pool.

    His physical bulk isn't so bad if you compare it to Slowbro

    Max HP Slowbro and Physical Defence with bold nature reaches 394 HP * 350 Def = 137900

    Max HP Slowpoke and Physical Defence with bold nature and evolite = 384 HP * 376.5 Def = 144576

    (The 376.5 Defence stat is from evolite = 251*1.5)

    Although Slowpoke is bulkier then Slowbro on the physical side, it does miss out on leftovers, although with access to slack off and regenerator, I don't know how significant the difference makes.

    The last Niche Slowpoke has in the tier, is the monopoly on Belly Drum + Trick room Combination, since his big brothers Slowbro and Slowking are busy fighting it out in the higher tiers.

    Belly Drum actually has two functions, if for some reason you can't or don't want to switch out Slowpoke and you need slowpoke to die, this helps it on it's way. Allowing a sweeper come in without taking a hit.

    It also turns Slowpoke into a threat when most players think Slowpoke is a pansy and can only be threatening with his support moves and they think they can come in and set up on him. Suddenly they're on the receiving end of a +6 Zen headbutt. As long as they don't set up a substitute as you boost up with Belly Drum.

    A uninvested attack with neutral nature = 166, after Belly Drum = 664

    If you want to Go for a more offensive variant

    Max Att with Brave nature = 251. After Belly Drum = 1004

    So you could probably mix and match the EVs to give him some bulk and some bite somewhere inbetween.

    You can still switch Slowpoke out after a belly drum because of regenerator, you only sacrifice 17% of your health assuming you don't take any other hits. -50% from belly drum +33% from regenerator.

    I don't know, just looks good on paper, I'd have time to test him out myself but I'm a busy busy and pre occupied lately. If anyone wants to give him a shot, go ahead.
  24. Sabinfrost

    Sabinfrost

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    I tried Trick Room/Belly Drum Slowbro, never done it with Slowpoke, and it wasn't bad. It would be nice if it didn't have to rely on trick room so he could set up and heal up. Regenerator + Belly Drum is nice however as it gives some health back if for whatever reason you're forced out. Unfortunately though Slowbro/Poke doesn't learn Waterfall. He does however get Dive, while not brilliant it's still 80 BP STAB at +6, meaning it would do a decent chunk. Honestly though EQ is probably his best bet for coverage with Zen for STAB.
  25. Keiran

    Keiran

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    Whilst Trapinch doesn't into any of the categories you've listed so far, He does have a very specific niche as a TR Revenge Killer, Being one of the slowest Pokemon in the tier (I believe only outsped by Shuckle) and has base 100 attack and a decent move-pool to boot.

    Derpy Ants yesh

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