NU Viability Ranking

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I also agree with Kangaskhan for S Rank and Braviary for A rank.

My suggestions:

Misdreavus to A Rank: Its defense is amazing with eviolite and with WoW makes it a hard counter to Sawk, Golurk, and even Skuntank lacking taunt. No Poke enjoys a burn. Taunt makes it a great lead. I have never tried the specially defensive eviolite set or any offensive set, but I have battled them and they are suprising and effective. They can also have heal bell and pain split for some recovery. The only reason it should not be S rank is the lack of reliable recovery and slight weakness for the uninvested defense or special defense.

Armaldo for A rank: Rapid Spin + Offensive presence are enough to boost this guy's up in ranking. The meta is still crawling with entry hazards and I see him on half the teams I face on PS.
 
I used to be in the boat for Armaldo for A, but recently I've seen why he is fine where he is. Rapid Spin is cool and all, but he is so freaking slow and his bad defensive typing (resistances to normal and poison isn't getting very far) are really what hold him back. He can invest in bulk, but is still generally stopped cold by the spinblockers here, namely Misdreavus who doesn't care what Armaldo does thanks to WoW.

Don't get me wrong he is not a bad Pokemon, he just wishes he could do more or have a little more speed or a little more bulk. These flaws imo keep him in B-rank.
 

Celever

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I'm agreeing with armaldo for A. You have ti remember what it has running for it, STAb to beat psychics, STAB to beat flying and both are types it can switch in on. It has rapid spin and is the single-best spinner in NU. In this tier not every team carries a spin blocker, and while his weakness to rocks it is still the best that NU has right now. It has an incredibly important niche and can even trick some opponents thinking it will use the niche and hit it with its great offensive stats, and could even use a physically defensive set well! It has enough variety and unpredictability to get in A rank.
 
Armaldo still loses to Gardevoir, the most common Psychic-type in the tier, unless it has a free switch-in. If you want a Bug to kill Psychic's, Pinsir does it better.
Yes, it has Rapid Spin, and it hits hard, but it is slow as moleasses and it has quite a few reliable counters like Misdreavus.

To have a calc of Gardy's Psychic versus Armaldo:
252 SpA Life Orb Gardevoir Psychic vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Armaldo: 224-265 (69.34 - 82.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Shuckleking87

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Alomomola is another good counter to Armaldo. I've just never have seen someone successfully use Armaldo, it just is disappointing. Its rock and water typing is extremely bad for it, as it loses out to just about all stealth rockers in the tier, while it cannot spin against misdreavus or golurk, both of which can beat it 1 vs 1, while water is extremely common type move. Yes, torkoal is also weak to these moves, as well as ground, but it's more physically bulky and can run a shell smash set that can gat past the two mentioned rapid spinners. Armaldo can run swords dance or rock polish, but really cannot defeat either ghost type minus aqua tail. I think wartortle is the best rapid spinner, but it's a c rank poke because it really only can rapid spin. TBH, I think armaldo functions best as a swift swim abuser with bulk, but that's besides the point. Also, armaldo really doesn't come close to being that good in comparison to the other A ranked pokes. I think misdreavus has alot better chance to fit into that category. Of course, the meta game will be shifting with the new drop down pokes like scoliopede, so my thought may be strengthened or completely wrong.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Armaldo is B because it isn't wallbreaking any common wall other than musharna, it's just a random slow bulky hard hitting spinner that's incredibly easy to wall. Musharna sure doesn't like it but teams that use mushy often use it as a defenisve pivot and wreck armaldo with about any offensive mon that outspeeds it or their own stealth rock setter like golem or regirock. Tangela is the only other wall it can hope to damage and it's so freaking bulky that he isn't 2hko'ing without a SD boost or LO (which is terrible on slow pokemon most of the time and won't 2hko after giga drain healed tangela). The sd set is kind of outclassed by life orb sheer force rampardos which can do nearly as much damage without a SD boost, and has better coverage and speed. Take away a little bulk and the only useful thing armaldo has over rampardos is rapid spin which just makes it's coverage even worse. As sickweare said, armaldo's resistances are terrible and the fact he doesn't bring a flying resist can be really annoying and force you to bring a second rock type if you don't want to be weak to flying types. I've barely ever seen any of the best NU players play armaldo and it should definately stay B.
 
Armaldo should stay B rank. It has WAY to many problems. First of all, its WAY to slow and gets beat by literally EVERY spinblocker. It has no reliable recovery besides for rest, which isnt reliable. It is open to all kinds of status, gets beat by psychics even though its part bug, cant take a special attack at all, so yeah. It gets beaten by the number 1 pokemon in the usage stats, Sawk. It only sports two resistances, which are pitiful. POISON AND NORMAL! Sure the normal is a good one, but thats the only useful thing it has with its Type! Its weak to two common attacks, Water and Rock. It gets beat by braviary still as well, especially The Sub Bulk Up one. It is surprisingly weak to Flying Types as well.

now tell me this thing deserves A rank. ;D
 
But remember its job is not to wall break it's to reliably spin. Alomomola and Braviary cannot stop Armaldo from spinning, only bulky ghost types can. Now if it was mandatory that every team carry a golurk or misdreavus, than Armaldo should be B rank or lower. Entry hazards are such an important part of NU and leaving them on the field proves them makes or breaks matches.
 
For all I care, dump Armaldo in D-rank (though that may be an exaggeration, I just need a way to express how much it sucks and what kind of dissappointment it was). Yes, it can spin, but that is everything it can do. It is like Wartortle in that regard (it sucks). Heck, Missy does a better job at hazard control and being outclassed as a physical attacker by Golem and Regirock (rock-types) or Leavanny and Pinsir (Bug-types) does not do Armaldo any favour either. Having possibly the worst typing in the game (yes, even beyond Bug/Flying or Ice/Flying) does not really help either.
And if you really need a spinner, Wartortle exists. Wartortle can at least get past the NU ghosts if played well, something Armaldo can't say. Torkoal is in the same boat with Shell Smash access as well as good support sets.

Armaldo is also really predictable, which does not help its case.

I remember Armaldo being a huge dissappointment back when I first used it at PO. Damn, it sucked, and was pretty surprised when Leavanny did everything I needed it to do so much better (since it was E-rank, and I knew next to nothing about Gen IV/V, Leav was basically a last ditch effort to make something out of my team - Leavanny just kinda fit the criteria I had (Pinsir has no Grass- or Water-move).

Misdreavus
for A-rank is something I agree with. The beheaded witch is just too damn good at times. It is pretty versatile, with CM, Nasty Plot and all kind of support sets. It is also pretty fast, which can help in preventing SR on your side on the field (better than Armaldo, at least -.- ).
 

tennisace

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Armaldo is placed entirely correctly according to our own guidelines. Sure, it can spin, and sure, Ghost-types not named Golurk don't enjoy Stone Edge. However as we all know it's slow and can't reliably break through most teams, giving up a lot of momentum in exchange for a spin. In addition, Toxic Spikes / Spikes have severely decreased in popularity to begin with, as the metagame is more and more focusing on either bulky set up Pokemon like Musharna or very hard hitting attackers like Kangashkan and Samurott.

Misdreavus to A seems fair, given its bulk and versatility.
 

ebeast

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Missy wasn't already A-rank? oO I agree with tennis and the Aasgier that Misdreavus should definitely be A-rank. It has excellent bulk with Eviolite and can disrupt a lot of teams with Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Pain Split, or even support a team with Heal Bell. Misdreavus is also a fine counter to the dangerous Sawk and with Levitate avoids taking damage from Spikes, which annoys the other major Sawk counter in Musharna. It can fit well on Balance teams looking for a stallbreaker and momentum stopper and works amazingly on more stall oriented teams looking for a spinblocker, Sawk counter, or a way to stop Duosion (via Perish Song). Misdreavus also has the ability to run Nasty Plot or Calm Mind sets, but its strength lies mainly in its ability to disrupt.

I've said it many times in this thread, but I still think that Armaldo should stay in B-rank. It does have good bulk with 75/100/80, but its Rock/Bug typing, while good offensively, is terrible on the defensive and only brings Normal- and Poison-type resistances to the table. A weakness to Stealth Rock means that its also it can't keep coming back to Rapid Spin or to beat Normal-types. (admittedly, its Bug-typing grants it a resist to Grass-, Fighting-, and Ground-type attacks that lets it check Sawsbuck, Zangoose, Kangaskhan, and Tauros) Armaldo also lacks a resistance to Flying-type attacks, which is the main reason for using Rock-type Pokemon. While Piloswine is the same boat of a Stealth Rock user that cannot switch into Flying-type Pokemon it makes up for it with its great typing alongside Thick Fat that lets it checks a huge amount of threats in NU.

Another thing is that Armaldo has a hard time getting off Rapid Spins off against the most common spinblockers, Golurk and Misdreavus, without dedicating its set to doing so. This means forgoing bulk and Stealth Rock in favor of Lum Berry, Swords Dance, and Aqua Tail. As Rapid Spinners in general aren't very common, people aren't even running spinblockers so usually a dedicated Rapid Spinner Armaldo set will end up being useless in most matches due to its lack of resistances and inability to outspeed much after setting up. A support set with both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin is much better for it in this metagame and even then has its problems, but that's why its in B-rank and not in A. SD Armaldo is pretty good on dedicated Rain teams however as it outspeed things thanks to Swift Swim and get off Rapid Spins easier to support the team supporters. (Mantine and Articuno come to mind). So in conclusion, Armaldo should stay in B-rank.

There are 2 other Pokemon I think should be discussed here. Both Altaria and Gurdurr aren't doing so hot in this current metagame and I think deserve to be placed down to C-rank. Altaria's only real set that has any value is Choice Specs as its defensive sets are simply not walling anything in NU the and Dragon Dance is usually done better by Pokemon such as Fraxure. Gurdurr was hurt massively by Psychic-types becoming more popular and will usually not be doing much in matches for this reason. Spikes also became easier to fit on teams due to NU now having two prominent Spikers to choose from in Roselia and Garbodor, which make it easier to wear down Gurdurr. More discussion on these Pokemon would be appreciated, but I keep my stand that both Altaria and Gurdurr should be C-rank.
 

Celever

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Gurdurr for C rank seems fair, however:

Altaria should stay B. There are what, 2, 3 good dragon types in NU? (I am seriously at a mind blank here, I swear there is someone mroe than altaria and fraxure) and altaria is the only one that's any good at being defensive. Altaria has the seamless coverage in fire blast and dragon whatever and with options like heal bell and roost can run two sets incredibly well, or you can mix them to some kind of success.
Altaria does face some competition with Articuno, but both have niches over eachother that means they should both be in B rank, I mean, one is weak to ice and the other fire, thunder etc..
 
List of all changes

Suggested: Metang from C to B

Metang is one of the most reliable SRers and finds it in the same boat as Regirock. Metang is also the only (??) SRer that also beats Psychic-types such as Musharna or Regirock which really takes off the strain on many teams. It is also a good counter to many birds, but it does get worn down pretty easily. Although it is considered set-up fodder, set up sweepers are honestly not that common in NU, the most common being SubBU Braviary (which sets up on most SRers such as Regirock already) and SD rott (sets up on most SRers again with ease). Substitute is pretty common in NU, but Metang doesn't have a problem with breaking most subs with a Meteor Mash. These unique qualities as a SRer make Metang qualify for B rank.

Outcome: Metang rises to B Rank


Suggested: Ludicolo from S to A

Ludicolo is not as good as it was and has a hard time setting up Rain Dance without getting crippled or taking too much damage to sweep. The metagame has changed (custap golem, kanga, bulky rott, trace gardy etc.) to not be swept as easily by Ludicolo. It is still a great Pokemon in NU and therefore, it's in A rank. Multiple arguments listed before by zeb and others also detail why Ludicolo should drop.

Outcome: Ludicolo drops to A Rank


Suggested: Kangaskhan from A to S

Kangaskhan is honestly an amazing Pokemon in the tier. It fulfills the same requirements as a revenge killer with priority (which is even better than a scarfer against something like RD Ludicolo) and it can deal a tone of damage such as 2HKOing Piloswine after 2 SR switch-ins. Its large bulk makes it hard to KO in one turn and it's hard to wear down by being barraged by multiple Fake Outs and Sucker Punches. (The CB set is also amazing.) It's overall utility to a team and no drawback makes it S rank.

Outcome: Kangaskhan rises to S Rank


Suggested: Haunter from A to S

Although Haunter is a great mon on multiple teams due to a great typing (and ability) which comes with helpful immunites and nearly flawless STABs, residing in a high base Speed tier, and a variety of niche moves such as Dbond or WoW, its frailty is its ultimate downfall (Eviolite still doesn't patch it up enough + its kinda weak w/ Eviolite). Getting OHKOd or 2HKOd by common priority attacks such as Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch, or Kanga Fake Out leaves Haunter to be forced out or to die. Many revenge killers also force Haunter out. Because of the same frailty, Haunter can't switch in safely most of the time without coming in on an immunity which is pretty risky. Also, FLCL's post details the main reason why Haunter should still stay A rank.

Outcome: Haunter stays in A Rank


Suggested: Weezing from C to B

Weezing didn't get better with the changed metagame, and in fact, it got worse due to the abundance of Psychic-types, no longer walling Mold Breaker Sawk, and it's still pretty much outclassed by Alomomola. Tennisace's post pretty much sums up all about why Weezing should stay in C rank.

Outcome: Weezing stays in C Rank


Suggested: Seismitoad from B to A

Seismitoad is a really great asset to many teams due to its ability to check/counter to many popular mons in the current NU meta. Beating almost all SRers one on one such as Golem, Regirock, Piloswine, checking Electric-types such as Rotom-S, and being an excellent check to Samurott (this is really rare in NU). It can be a great attacker with SubToxic or a great sponge with either a physically defensive or specially defensive spread. I think all arguments for toad was positive for this suggestiong.

Outcome: Seismitoad rises to A Rank


Suggested: Gothorita from D to B

Gothorita is actually a very underused Pokemon but excels by trapping certain threats for its team. Being an amazing way of breaking walls for sweepers or breaking apart stall teams and still countering strong attackers such as Sawk, Gothorita is a really useful Pokemon for many teams. (The post comparing Girafarig to Gothorita is wayyyy off since Girafarig cannot trap) Its reliability on Rest for recovery and not doing anything against teams that don't have anything that goth can trap make it a liability sometimes which is why Gothorita isn't at A rank, but its EFFECTIVE trapping qualities make it B rank.

Outcome: Gothorita moves all the way up to B rank (just 4 u flcl)


Suggested: Misdreavus from B to A

Misdreavus is an excellent pivot, similar to Musharna, due to its great immunities and bulk. It disrupts multiple teams through the use of Will-O-Wisp and Taunt which makes it a great stallbreaker while also crippling many threats such as Golurk, Kangaskhan, or SD Rott. Its offensive capabilities shouldn't be nudge aside either since it can do an unexpected late-game sweep with either Nasty Plot or Calm Mind due to its unexpected high speed (same as Sawk). Misdreavus is actually very hard to handle for most teams since Skuntank gets crippled by Will-O-Wisp easily which lets Missy still able to counter threats such as Tauros and Sawk. Many other posts such as EBeast's and Lolkomori's show Misdreavus' qualities well.

Outcome: Misdreavus rises to A Rank


Suggested: Armaldo from B to A

I don't have anything different to say than what others posted above on why Armaldo should stay B rank. (Shuckleking and tennisace's posts are just some of the few.)

Outcome: Armaldo stays at B Rank



List of changes that still need more discussion

  • Vigoroth from B to C
  • Liepard from C to B
  • Jumpluff from C to B
  • Girafarig from E to D
  • Altaria from B to C
  • Gurdurr from B to C
IMPORTANT: NOTE THAT INCOMING POTENTIAL DROPS MAY AFFECT THE CHANGES LISTED HERE AND OTHER MONS TOO

Thanks to everyone so far for not making any shitty posts. Merry discussing. =)
 

tennisace

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There are what, 2, 3 good dragon types in NU? (I am seriously at a mind blank here, I swear there is someone mroe than altaria and fraxure) and altaria is the only one that's any good at being defensive.
This 100% shouldn't factor into your decision. The defensive Dragon-type niche (filled by Shelgon, Altaria, and Zweilous) isn't relevant at all in this tier really. There are a ton of Ice-type and Rock-type attacks around, and not very many Fire-type attacks or whatever else Altaria resists (252Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Altaria (Neutral): 44% - 51% (156 - 184 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 6% chance to 2HKO. Just gonna put this out there, after SR Altaria is very cleanly 2hko'd, and if the Sawk user predicts or is Expert Belt, you have a dead bird on your hands).

Altaria is ok in a defensive role, but I wouldn't use it on my team over <insert generic SpDef mon here>. It's SR weak, which matters a lot when attacks that should be 3hkos like:

252SpAtk Life Orb Gardevoir (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Cloud Nine Altaria (+SpDef): 36% - 43% (130 - 153 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

turn into almost guaranteed 2hkos.

As for Gurdurr, I totally agree that it should be bumped down to C-rank. I know I've referenced Psychic-type dominance in basically every recent post (which is silly because from what I've heard shit's getting shaken up tomorrow), Gurdurr doesn't really have a place right now.

I have a couple of Pokemon that I'd like to talk about but I feel like it's a moot point until tomorrow lol.
 
I would like to demote hypno to D-Rank. Hypno is honestly, one of the worst psychic types in the tier. It has a low base 73 special attack and a pathetic base 67 speed, meaning it usually won't sweep, even with nasty plot and trick room; not to mention that Beeheeyem is a better nasty plot sweeper because of its usable base 125 special attack. Lickylicky is a better wishpasser because of his higher HP and access to Dragon tail. Hypno is basically the jack of all trades, master of none and does not deserve anything higher than D-Rank.

Also, I suggest adding roselia to B-rank and demoting garbodor to B-Rank. Both are good spike users, but their low speeds and weakness to psychic hinder thier effectiveness.
EDIT: Since everybody keeps talking about psychic dominance and demoting previously good pokemon like gurdurr by two ranks, shouldn't sawk become A/B-rank? Also, shouldn't stuff like cacturne go up to A-Rank and scraggy to B-rank? Just a thought.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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I would like to demote hypno to D-Rank. Hypno is in all honesty, one of the worst psychic types in the tier. It has a low base 73 special attack and a pathetic base 67 speed, meaning it usually won't sweep, even with nasty plot and trick room; not to mention that Beeheeyem is a better nasty plot sweeper because of its usable base 125 special attack. Lickylicky is a better wishpasser because of his higher HP and access to Dragon tail. Hypno is basically the jack of all trades, master of none and does not deserve anything higher than D-Rank.

Also, I suggest adding roselia to B-rank and demoting garbodor to B-Rank. Both are good spike users, but their low speeds and weakness to psychic hinder thier effectiveness.
EDIT:Since everybody keeps talking about psychic dominance and demoting previously good pokemon like gurdurr by two ranks, shouldn't sawk become A/B-rank?
I can concur with moving Hypno down to D-Rank. It's pretty useless, not much usefulness in the meta, doesn't really have any real reason to be used over other Psychics in the tier. No real niche and it's a mediocre Pokemon. D-Rank does seem right.

I'm a bit torn about Roselia and Trash Bag about whether they should be B or A-Rank. They're both really good at Spiking, Rose moreso than Trash Bag, but either way I'd be fine with A or B-Rank. Garbodor would definitely be B though if Mesprit / Scolipede fall to NU in the next tier shift.

Sawk's still a dominant force imo and it can destroy whole teams pretty smoothly if Psychics are outta the way. IMO Sawk's way better than Gurdurr 'cause it has a great Speed tier and superb offensive power. Mold Breaker is great too and anything that wants things like Probopass or Bastiodon outta the way is awesome. Sawk just wrecks. Sawk is hands down the best physical attacker besides Zangoose, and is pretty awesome and fits nicely on a lot of teams. Gurdurr is pretty sucky 'cause it's hilariously slow and its special bulk is bad, it's really easy to wear down and it needs boosts. I dunno though, I'm leaning towards keeping it in S, though I wouldn't mind if it got demoted to A.

Ah yes, Scraggy, the little brother of the best Pokemon in the world. I dunno really, Scraggy's a pretty good BU user and he has great STAB's together, and Shed Skin is really nice too. The other cool thing is that Musharna doesn't shit on Scragg the way it shits on Gurdurr. It's slow though and Sawk shits on it all day. I dunno, really, I could see it in either B or C-Rank. I'll let others talk about this.

I don't use Cacturne so I don't know how it fares. Might actually try it though.

Anyways, I agree with moving Gurdurr down. He's shit on all day by the prominent Psychics in the tier and he will be very hard pressed to grab BU boosts. Gurdurr also is worn down really easily by the common Spikes, especially with Trash Bag running 'round the block. Also, it faces competition as a Fighting-type in general. Plus if Mesprit ends up falling next tier shift (Who knows?), it's only gonna be more bad news for Gurdurr. Anyways, back on topic, I'm in full support of Gurdurr for C-Rank.

It suffers Musharna syndrome, that should be auto c
 
I suppose I'll begin talk about Liepard. We all know (or should know) the set Liepard is most popular for; the Paraswagger set. While this set can make people rage, it relies completely for luck to completely set up. Liepard's paper defenses mean that any hit will tear down its Substitute. Not to mention, if that T-Wave or Swagger doesn't work and hits you before you set up your substitute, Liepard is pretty much dead. Some people have tried to sweep with it with Nasty Plot, but again, it's defenses make setting up a difficult job and Murkrow can do its job better with access to Roost and Calm Mind. The only other thing Liepard has for it is weather support with access to both Rain Dance and Sunny Day and other, bulkier choices would be better.

tl;dr While the Paraswagger set can be deadly when done correctly it's too big a risk to take, and whatever else Liepard can do something else can do it better. My vote is that it stays in Rank C.
 
I'm pretty sure that Gurdurr dont deserve C-Rank, is pretty low for one of the tops mon in the past, which actually isnt too good but isnt bad at all for this rank.

With the right support can sweep offensive / balance teams paired with the right partners mainly Pursuit which can trap the hard counters of Gurdurr (Musharna, Duosin, Gardevoir) because Bulk Up + Drain Punch to recover. While have a good coverage at the same time, Drain Punch + Ice Punch together with a priority that help to check different dangerous threats like: Zangoose, Carracosta or Sawsbuck for example.

Also, is a good partner for offensive mons because can lure defensive threats with Knock Off / Toxic like Tangela, Misdreavus or Alomomola; while at the same time can give you better bulk than the rest offensive presence of your team and finally is a good status absorber to take Wisp / Toxic and then take advantage of Guts which is pretty annoying when you're running different physical sweepers.

High B-Rank for Gurdurr imo
 
Magcargo 2 said:
I would like to demote hypno to D-Rank. Hypno is honestly, one of the worst psychic types in the tier. It has a low base 73 special attack and a pathetic base 67 speed, meaning it usually won't sweep, even with nasty plot and trick room; not to mention that Beeheeyem is a better nasty plot sweeper because of its usable base 125 special attack. Lickylicky is a better wishpasser because of his higher HP and access to Dragon tail. Hypno is basically the jack of all trades, master of none and does not deserve anything higher than D-Rank.

Also, I suggest adding roselia to B-rank and demoting garbodor to B-Rank. Both are good spike users, but their low speeds and weakness to psychic hinder thier effectiveness.
EDIT: Since everybody keeps talking about psychic dominance and demoting previously good pokemon like gurdurr by two ranks, shouldn't sawk become A/B-rank? Also, shouldn't stuff like cacturne go up to A-Rank and scraggy to B-rank? Just a thought.
First and foremost, Hypno shouldn't be used as a Special Attacker for many reasons; It's utility lies in it's walling capabilities. It's a good Special Wall, and has some good support moves, but the positive stuff end there. Hypno is somewhat outclassed by Gardevoir, who boasts higher SDef, and much more versatility, meaning it can surprise the opponent who would think that it was the CM variant. Hypno can also be used as a set-up fodder for Pokemon such as Lum Samurott, who can set up a couple of Swords Dances while Hypno tries to Toxic you. Hypno also lacks a way to deal damage, while Gardevoir has some strong attacks with good SAtk. It is also outclassed by Grumpig as a Special Wall, who has Thick Fat which gives it more resistances and more utility moves. Hypno for D-Rank.
 
Gurdurr should Drop to C rank. The metagame is just not too friendly for it right now. With all the psychic types in the tier, it has a hard time being efficient. Musharna beats it easily, gardevoir beats it, basically every psychic type. It also cant take Special Attacks too well at all. For example...

252 SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 257-304 (68.71 - 81.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 251-296 (67.11 - 79.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Rotom-S Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 242-288 (64.7 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Combusken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 242-286 (64.7 - 76.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 198-234 (52.94 - 62.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah it cant take special attacks. It is also weak to some physical attackers as well. For example, Braviary can destroy this thing, as well as any other flying types such as Swellow. It doesnt appreciate Sawk either...

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 240-283 (64.17 - 75.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As well as this, here are the top 20 pokemon in usage stats, and how they fare against gurdurr.

1.
Golurk- I will admit, gurdurr has this guy beat since it usually carries ice punch or payback.

2
Gardevoir- Gardevoir beats this guy easily. Just to prove it...

252 SpA Life Orb Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 429-507 (114.7 - 135.56%) -- guaranteed OHKO

3.
Skuntank- Yeah, gurdurr cant do too much if skuntank has taunt. It is basically shut down. One on one though, Gurdurr wins.

4.
Alomomola- This guy can toxic stall it easily with wish and protect and toxic.

5.
Musharna- I dont even have to put an explanation here. Musharna obliterates it with Pyschic/Moonlight.

6.
Armaldo- Yeah, Gurdurr BU Drain Punchs it to death.

7.
Ludicolo- As I said earlier, Ludicolo beats this guy with a 2 hit KO. If you think Gurdurr can still win with Drain Punch, you are wrong. Ludicolo can set up rain while gurdurr drain punches and then...

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr in rain: 376-445 (100.53 - 118.98%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So yeah.

8.
Braviary- As I said before, Braviary can easily take a DP and come back with a Brave Bird.

252 Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 432-510 (115.5 - 136.36%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The Bulk Up Braviary beats this guy easily as well. It can Roost BU and Brave Bird.

9.
Miltank- This cow gets Drain Punched by gurdurr and dies.

10.
Charizard- This guy can easily take a hit, and then KO it with either Fire Blast or Air Slash.

11.
Haunter- Haunter can easily beat Gurdurr. It can switch into Gurdurr, Sub, then Disable the Ice Punch/Payback if its a Sub Disable Set. If its a sub and three attacks set, its easy as well.

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 203-239 (54.27 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

12.
Eelektross- Eelektross can take hit or two, and come back with a painful T-Bolt.


252+ SpA Choice Specs Eelektross Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 253-298 (67.64 - 79.67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ SpA Life Orb Eelektross Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 220-259 (58.82 - 69.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


13.
Samurott- Samurott can take a Drain Punch and can come back with a painful Hydro Pump. Look at earlier calc.


14.
Misdreavus- If Gurdurr is an Iron Punch Set or Sheer Force, you can take a hit and burn it. If its not, just spam shadow ball and pain split and you will eventually win, especially with the toxic and burn damage.


15.
Piloswine- Piloswine gets beat by gurdurr by a drain punch easily and gurdurr can tank its attacks.


16.
Pinsir- Gurdurr can BU and KO pinsir, just a bit more difficult.


17.
Exeggutor- Its a psychic type, must I explain this? It destroys it with Pyschic and can easily take its hits, even if it has ice punch.



18.
Golem- Sure, Gurdurr beats Golem. But really, you dont see golem living that long in matches to begin with. I literally see most people just sac in the very begining once you get SR up, so this isnt really to accurate to put to your defense.


19.
Rotom-S- Rotom-S two hit KO's it with Air Slash, must I explain more? Its surprisingly bulky and can easily take a DP from Gurdurr.


20.
Liepard- Drain Punch. Gurdurr beats in a perfect world with no confusion Hax.


Ok so this means that 12 out of the 20 pokemon in the top 20 usually beat this pokemon, so its on the weaker side here, just for the input. You also have to put in mind though, that 4 out of the 8 of them were in the 15-20 area, so the more used out of these are the counters and checks to gurdurr, which isnt good.


To sum it all up, Gurdurr is not in a very friendly metagame right now. 12 out of the 20 top pokemon right now beat it, its weak to the strongest type in the metagame right now, pyschic, gets beat by flying as well. It can take special hits well and generally gets beat by every special attacker in the tier. It SHOULD move down to C rank.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
While I don't give two shits about skill-less Parafusion Liepards, Encore Liepard is truly what makes him better deserving of B-Rank. The ability to force out almost every set-up pokemon in NU to proceed with the vicious Swagger-Foul Play cycle means that every pokemon needs to be cautious about when they go for the boost (the only exceptions I can think of are Drum-Espeed Linoone or Jolly SSmash Aqua Jet Carra). Other than that, feel free to switch in on Shell Smashes, Swords Dances, weather moves, Calm Minds, Quiver Dances, Growths, Bulk Ups (if you're feeling that ballsy), Agilitys (most don't carry priority), Shift Gears, Substitutes, hazards (preferably Stealth Rock), Sucker Punches, Protects, Rest and Sleep Talk, Fake Out (inadvised :P) and healing moves, etc. While parafuse Liepard can lose to Signal Beam Psychics, Encore Liepard can easily force them out by locking them into Psychic. Pokemon that aim to status Liepard will also get force out in a similiar fashion with Sub and Encore.

However, a single move isn't really enough to warrant the boost in rank. No, unlike other Prankster pokemon, Liepard actually has offensive presence, though that is dependant on the type of targets he faces. Liepard's high speed and Dark STAB means he can revenge kill Braviary, Golurk (clean OHKO on CB variants), Zangoose, Sawsbuck, Kangaskhan, non-Scarf Sawk (preferably CB Sawk locked into CC) and Pinsir, physical Eelektross, Haunter, Gardevoir, Kadabra, the Simis....the list goes on. While most of these are 2HKOs, not many can claim to do this with ZERO offensive investment (with a negative nature to boot!). This means Liepard can gear itself for handling Ghosts and Psychics better. It is not outclassed by Skuntank in this role because while the Skunk has neutrality to most of the Psychic's coverage, better bulk and a stronger Pursuit; Liepard is all but unaffected by any of the Psychic pokemon's disruption moves: Will-o-Wisp, Destiny Bond, Trick, Disable, even Miracle Eye can all be combated easily by Sub + Encore, giving Liepard an upper hand which Skunk fails to achieve. The higher speed helps too.

Conclusion: Liepard for B-Rank. Actually, I might even go for A-Rank, after all Haunter has shown that frailty doesn't hold you back from being A-Rank, the difference between the two is that Liepard has a harder time switching in (if you consider the aforementioned moves Liepard can come in on uncommon, especially Substituters who think they are safe from Liepard), but Liepard is not as vulnerable to Scarfers or priority thanks to its own.

Edit: Well of course Gurdurr's not taking special hits well, you don't see Piloswine doing the same do you? What makes Gurdurr good is that he triumphs over most physical attackers in the tier, beating them one-on-one. The utility granted by Drain Punch and Mach Punch, something no other Fighting-type in the tier (a grand total of six) boast, is pretty immense. Gurdurr is pretty much the physical tank of NU, taking physical beatings while dishing them back out: hell, the combination of Drain Punch and Mach Punch alone is usually enough to keep Gurdurr alive long enough to beat another threat. The Bulk Up set may be losing its luster in this Psychic-infested metagame, but with the drops tommorow (provided no April Fool's bullshit XD), I wouldn't put it away just yet.
 

Shuckleking87

"Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Hey, I know this isn't that popular for Gurdurr, but what about a specially defensive set with payback? This is really back in the day stuff, but, for example, it can take any non-specs psychic from gardevoir (including rocks) while having a 81.25% chance to ohko with payback without stealth rocks (obviously kill with stealth rocks). Not that this is a great idea, but it can kinda act as a psychic lure. Throh does this set slightly better, but gurdurr has the surprise factor. Not saying that this should be the gurdurr set or that it should or should not be a B or C rank poke, but I would say that this set could work better than the typical set.
 
Edit: Well of course Gurdurr's not taking special hits well, you don't see Piloswine doing the same do you? What makes Gurdurr good is that he triumphs over most physical attackers in the tier, beating them one-on-one. The utility granted by Drain Punch and Mach Punch, something no other Fighting-type in the tier (a grand total of six) boast, is pretty immense. Gurdurr is pretty much the physical tank of NU, taking physical beatings while dishing them back out: hell, the combination of Drain Punch and Mach Punch alone is usually enough to keep Gurdurr alive long enough to beat another threat. The Bulk Up set may be losing its luster in this Psychic-infested metagame, but with the drops tommorow (provided no April Fool's bullshit XD), I wouldn't put it away just yet.
To be honest I dont understand why Piloswine is in A rank either, but thats a different story. XD The thing with Gurdurr is that even as Physical Tank, it cant take flying attacks well, and even though you said its not meant for special attacks thats not the point. even if its not meant for the special attack tanking it doesnt mean it doesnt have to take at least a few hits. It loses to literally almost every special attacker in the tier, and almost every team has a special attacker. This makes it hard for Gurdurr to function well.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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I've tried specially defensive Gurdurr before, and my god it was so weak. The fact you can't OHKO Gardevoir 100% of the time with a 200 base power physical move off your (supposed to be respectable) 105 base Attack stat illustrates this. If you can't KO that, what of your chances against everything else? Now Gurdurr loses one-on-one to the likes of Sawk or SD Samrott due to his inability to hit back hard, and thus doesn't improve his chances against other special threats either. I know where you're getting at, but Gurdurr really needs the off-the-bat power, since it can't set up much/at all in this metagame.

Edit: Gurdurr can actually hold its own against most special attackers, such as Regice and the Simis, well due to its healing attack and priority. That said, it's a shame that common special attackers in this metagame are Psychic-types, if not Flying.
 
Gurdurr is fine in B-rank. It still walls and/or beats the majority of physical attackers, like Kangaskhan, Sawsbuck and others. Even Braviary can be handled by Gurdurr, which is amazing.

It has a Musharna syndrome, but anything not named Armaldo, Leavanny or Pinsir has that, basically (and, Scolipede and Klinklang, I guess). That being said, Armaldo still loses to Gardevoir, forcing you to run Skunk, CB Golurk or Liepard alongside.

Edit: I agree that Hypno drops to D-rank. It sucks and is outclassed by everything at whatever it tries to do. Though it can run literally ANY sort of set, it is quite slow and everything you already should have on your team to handle Mushy also handles Hypno.


Girafarig is, I think, slightly better as Hypno. It is not bad, it is just outclassed by Sawsbuck, which is its main problem. STAB Zen Headbutt instead of Horn Leech, ability to run special as well as physical sets, and also having no Fighting-weakness, help Girafarig's case though. Girafarig to D-rank, well, I think that is fine. I earlier said that Girafarig holds a small niche and can easily fill that spot in case necessary. Base 85 speed is not bad either, especially in NU. Girafarig is at least better as Hypno, that is one thing for sure.
 
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