Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[Punchshroom]

It's not a preconceived notion lol. I've used both and find that swellow tends to be more useful then ninetales. I've tried tales with multiple sets and kind of like a wierd one but I don't simply don't find them to be on the same level that's all XD It was just a comment based on my personal opinion on the matter...

Well isn't that what 'preconceived' means, like you know, based on opinion. Also I don't see how there was any hostility on tennisace's part; he was just stating facts about how Ninetales shouldn't really be compared to something as different as Swellow. It would be like comparing, oh say Mismagius to Sceptile, or something very random along those lines.

I feel like you need to take into account how good mons are in comparison to each other to properly order them in a list of viability. Swellow can put in so much work in far more situations then ninetales is what I found from my experience with it. But they are both great mons and deserve high rankings.

See, I believe what Leer is asking is if Swellow and Ninetales pull off a similiar enough task to be properly compared to (ex: compare Throh to Gurdurr, Crustle to former NU Omastar...). Swellow excels at threatening offensive teams while Ninetales does great at threatening bulkier teams. That is very different to what the other does; a better comparison would be to compare Ninetales with other Pokemon that threaten bulkier teams, such as Samurott and Magmortar.

That said, I can see where you're coming from when determining a Poke's usefulness in the current meta: if offensive teams are more popular, Swellow sees better use (which is probably the case in your experience); but if bulkier/balanced teams are more popular, that means Ninetales's usefulness would improve. Currently the meta doesn't seem very biased toward either playstyle, so it is hard to say which sweeper is more favored in the meta. As for me, I hesitate to put Ninetales in the same rank as Magmortar, but it should definitely rise to B at least.

 

[Ares]

Ninetales is a fantastic wincon for stall right now, not to mention its pretty decent on balance or even hyper offense (although Pyroar / Thyphlosion is preferred on HO). It sits at a pretty high speed tier for NU allowing it to outspeed most things when stall is ready to clean up. That isn't all, Ninetales has reliable ways to beat common switchins to Fire-types, ie Energy Ball and Psyshock. Energy Ball for Water / Rock and less importantly Ground types. While Psyshock beats Hariyama and Dragalge, two incredibly common Fire checks. Admittedly Ninetales needs a Nasty Plot to hit hard, which is why people tend to write it off when there are options like Magmortar, Pyroar, and Thyphlosion that use either a Choice Item or Life Orb. However you shouldn't try to play Ninetales like any of them. Ninetales is a late game sweeper while the afore mentioned are more wall breakers.

Every time I face Ninetales it gives me trouble and I have to play carefully around it. Ninetales is a great pokemon in this meta and I can see it in B+ or even A-.

 

[Politoad]

Pawniard might have a godly typing, but with its only average speed and lacking attack (without boost anyways) I dont think it is worth A-, Hell I still see this as a C+/B- mon, but B+ i cool I guess. The meta is adapting to it so most of its suprise factor is gone, and that was as I saw it the main draw to its attention (besides cockblocking shiftry)

Rapidash could do C-, but it is really fragile and tends to kill itself really fast with LO+Recoil (LO is WAY better that choice) And it also has a 4MSS which is never nice.

Im fine with Ninetales moving up to B since it is good, but great competition from more appealing firetypes like Typhlosion and Pyroar limits it only to NP sweeping, SubCM and SubDisable (this is underrated as fuck lol) This keeps it out of B+ IMO. NP has a MASSIVE 4MSS, since you want Psyshock, Fire blast, Energy Ball, HP water, Will-o-Wisp and Sub at same time as NP. SubDisable and SubCM is really cool, since you can set up sub on almost any defensive mon and from there do good damage against common defensive cores like VileToad and FerroToad+Audino.

Speaking of SubDisable, I would like to nominate Haunter for B. Its super easy to set up sub and start to fuck over anything. Will-o-Wisp stops any physical attackers bar Gurdurr (which cant do shit because you disable Knock off) and the rare Guts hariyama (same problem). Shadow ball hit quite hard from 115 sp.atk and hits a good majority of the tier for atleast neutral damage. Offensive teams really struggle to deal with this bastard, since almost nothing can switchin without taking a buttload of damage or being crippled. Taunt is also an option over Will-o-wisp if you really hate Audino.
Aside from SubDisable there is Trickscarf and Sub + 3 attacks LO which are both pretty good.

choice > lo

 

[Deej Dy]

I think we already agreed on raising ninetales, the sheet just hasn't been updated ;/.

Edit: Although it should be B+ max, yes its fast and awesome, but it is weak to SR and Aqua jet mons are very common in this tier.

 

[Aleccat]

Allow me to start my argument my saying
Allow me to start my argument by repeating the D and E rank standards.

"D Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time. These Pokemon are, for the most part, daft to use."

"E Rank:
E is for "Everything Else". You should probably not be using Pokemon in this rank. "

With this being stated, I suggest moving Spritzee from unlisted to D- rank.

Spritzee's main function is to stall special attackers, cleric, and WishPass. What other 'mons can do that effectively in the tier? Audino, Togetic, Slurpuff, Wigglytuff, Lickilicky, and Flareon. So what sets Spritzee apart from these Pokemon? Well, for one, Spritzee cannot be taunted, shared by only one other 'mon in this tier list, Lickilicky (with the ability Oblivious, although he has Cloud Nine to stop rain teams which are more frequent now). Why not slap a Mental Herb on a 'mon and call it a day? That is always an option, however, Mental Herb stops Taunt ONCE, in opposed to Lickilicky and Spritzee's immunity to Taunt. Is that all Spritzee has over these other 'mons? Of course not, Spritzee has excellent typing. Lickilicky and Audino die to one of the most common types spammed in NU: Fighting (Focus Blast, Sawk, Gurdurr, Hariyama, Hidden Power Fighting, etc.), while Spritzee can easily wall Focus Blasts, and sometimes, physical Fighting type moves. And if that wasn't enough, Spritzee can help teammates sweep by using Charm on physical attacker, lowering their Attack by two stages, which is enough to reverse a band, and then some. Spritzee also has some other options over on other Specially-Defensive-WishPasser-Clerics in NU. Flareon and Togetic are both excellent walls, but are weak to Stealth Rocks, while Spritzee isn't. "Why would I use Spritzee when Slurpuff exists?" Slurpuff is more Physically Defensive, while Spritzee is Specially Defensive. This is because Slurpuff has more Physically Defensive bulk, and has Cotton Guard over on Spritzee. However, Specially Defense is where Slurpuff lacks compared to Spritzee. Spritzee has Light Screen and Moonblast (Light Screen sets up a screen for five turns halving Special Attack damage, while Moonblast has a 30% of lowering the target's Special Attack by one stage), while all Slurpuff has is Light Screen. In addition to that, Spritzee has better bulk compared to Slurpuff with Eviolite equipped. In addition to all of this ramble-jamble, Spritzee has Reflect (in case if you want to do a shoddy Dual Screen set or help sweepers set up), Toxic (for passive damage, always considered on stallers), and Trick Room (Makes slow pokemon move fast [Spritzee has a base 29 speed!], although somewhat outclassed by the likes of Audino and others) for other support options. Of course, I'm recommending D- because Spritzee has cons to use after all. Most 'mons Spritzee can wall generally will carry something that can hurt her (Psyshock for Mesprit and a few other Special Attacking-Psychic types, Poison Jab/Bullet Punch on Sawk/Hariyama if they do fake choice then sneak attack you right as you are about to land a Charm, and many more examples). Knock Off is another con of using Spritzee since she is so item-reliant. Spritzee also is one of the really passive WishPasserClerics who give set-up sweepers free turns to Dance (Swords, Quiver, and Dragon) all over her, and can do next-to-nothing to defend herself. However, if you can overlook these flaws, Spritzee is a very good 'mon.

Let me end my argument by questioning the reader (ily fans LESSTHANTHREE) this: Is Spritzee so bad you should "not be using her" or does she have a "small niche in the current metagame, but very noticeable flaws that make her more trouble than she is worth the majority of the time."?

(Edit: I realized I did not post a moveset. It would generally be Wish/Protect, Reflect, or Charm/Aromatherapy/Moonblast, Toxic, Light Screen, Reflect, or Charm

#SPRITZEE5PREZEEDANT2015

 

[Punchshroom]

Spritzee's main function is to stall special attackers, cleric, and WishPass. What other 'mons can do that effectively in the tier? Audino, Togetic, Slurpuff, Wigglytuff, Lickilicky, and Flareon. So what sets Spritzee apart from these Pokemon? Well, for one, Spritzee cannot be taunted, shared by only one other 'mon in this tier list, Lickilicky (with the ability Oblivious, although he has Cloud Nine to stop rain teams which are more frequent now).

Wish is incompatible with Cloud Nine, and since Wish is the biggest reason to use Lickilicky, it shouldn't forgo Oblivious. Not to mention that even with Cloud Nine, it won't stop weather teams for long since it, you know, lost Wish, so most Lickys are assumed to be Oblivious, eliminating Spritzee's biggest reason to be considered at all. For the record, Wigglytuff is an absolutely awful Wish user (I've tried, she uses those Wishes to heal herself more than her teammates, or she just dies :/ ), and Togetic's lackluster HP, SR weakness, and lack of Leftovers (I'll get to this) are turnoffs.

Lickilicky and Audino die to one of the most common types spammed in NU: Fighting (Focus Blast, Sawk, Gurdurr, Hariyama, Hidden Power Fighting, etc.), while Spritzee can easily wall Focus Blasts, and sometimes, physical Fighting type moves.

The nice thing about Licky and Audino is that they only have one weakness, and there are only a handful of relevant Fighting-type Pokemon in the tier. Spritzee is susceptible to Poison-types and Steel-types, which combined outnumber the amount of NU Fighting-types, many of which also like to set up.

Spritzee has Charm, Light Screen, Reflect, Toxic, and Trick Room.

Spritzee has next to no room for any of these moves on a traditional cleric set. As RU Aromatisse and NU Slurpuff have proven, there is very little room to innovate when they are undergoing heavy cleric duty. Not to mention that most of these attacks are not good on Spritzee; dual Screening should be left to Pokemon that can actually afford to hold Light Clay, Toxic isn't good on bulky Fairy-types since they lure in Poison- and Steel-types so frequently, and Trick Room is better left to Pokemon that can either take advantage of it, or do not cost momentum (such as SR + Explosion Carbink).

Slurpuff is more Physically Defensive, while Spritzee is Specially Defensive. In addition to that, Spritzee has better bulk compared to Slurpuff with Eviolite equipped.

The thing is that since the majority of Fairy's resists are physical attacks, there is little demand for a specially defensive Fairy-type. There is also the fact that Spritzee barely holds up against the tier's special attackers, and this is without prior damage from things like hazards or Knock Off.

Knock Off is another con of using Spritzee since she is so item-reliant. Spritzee also is one of the really passive WishPasserClerics who give set-up sweepers free turns to Dance (Swords, Quiver, and Dragon) all over her, and can do next-to-nothing to defend herself. However, if you can overlook these flaws, Spritzee is a very good 'mon.

These flaws are very hard to simply 'overlook', since Knock Off users and setup sweepers are far more common than Taunt. Audino and Lickilicky have ways to avoid being setup fodder, such as Encore as well as Body Slam and Dragon Tail, respectively. Spritzee has no such anti-setup move, and unlike Slurpuff it has zero passive recovery, so if it gets forced out by a threatening setup sweeper before receiving its own Wish, it won't get much chances to heal up safely again. Being a WishPasser that is reliant on Eviolite is already not looking up, since it not only misses out on the 62% recovery that Leftovers WishTecters receive, but Spritzee's bulk gets substantially cut by Knock Off as well as status, which also means that despite its resistances and cleric moves it doesn't make a good Knock Off or even status absorber.

Let me end my argument by questioning the reader this: Is Spritzee so bad you should "not be using her" or does she have a "small niche in the current metagame, but very noticeable flaws that make her more trouble than she is worth the majority of the time."?

For the most part, yes. Her niche is far too small and she does not have enough advantages to warrant her usage over clerics in the tier. Heck, her only niche is already shared by an existing cleric (

) which has better bulk (yes, including Eviolite), can afford Leftovers to lessen passive damage, and has anti-setup moves at its disposal. Say what you will about Fighting-types, but at least on the whole they are easier to cover than Poison-types, Steel-types, and almost every setup Pokemon in the tier.

 

[Ice_Cold345]

Swoobat(C-) ------> C+

I've been using Swoobat recently as my lead and I've found it's been pretty effective at getting some kills. Sub + CM w/ Simple allows it to have 359 Speed (Max Speed with Timid) and 506 Special Attack after one Calm Mind, which you can get if people use their SR leads. It has it's problems, like dealing with priority, but for a lead, I'll take a kill or two, or potentially sweep. Air Slash / Psyshock allow to deal with the different walls pretty well, though Ferroseed is a slight problem if you don't run a Life Orb.

 

[Aleccat]

Wish is incompatible with Cloud Nine, and since Wish is the biggest reason to use Lickilicky, it shouldn't forgo Oblivious. Not to mention that even with Cloud Nine, it won't stop weather teams for long since it, you know, lost Wish, so most Lickys are assumed to be Oblivious, eliminating Spritzee's biggest reason to be considered at all. For the record, Wigglytuff is an absolutely awful Wish user (I've tried, she uses those Wishes to heal herself more than her teammates, or she just dies :/ ), and Togetic's lackluster HP, SR weakness, and lack of Leftovers (I'll get to this) are turnoffs.


The nice thing about Licky and Audino is that they only have one weakness, and there are only a handful of relevant Fighting-type Pokemon in the tier. Spritzee is susceptible to Poison-types and Steel-types, which combined outnumber the amount of NU Fighting-types, many of which also like to set up.


Spritzee has next to no room for any of these moves on a traditional cleric set. As RU Aromatisse and NU Slurpuff have proven, there is very little room to innovate when they are undergoing heavy cleric duty. Not to mention that most of these attacks are not good on Spritzee; dual Screening should be left to Pokemon that can actually afford to hold Light Clay, Toxic isn't good on bulky Fairy-types since they lure in Poison- and Steel-types so frequently, and Trick Room is better left to Pokemon that can either take advantage of it, or do not cost momentum (such as SR + Explosion Carbink).


The thing is that since the majority of Fairy's resists are physical attacks, there is little demand for a specially defensive Fairy-type. There is also the fact that Spritzee barely holds up against the tier's special attackers, and this is without prior damage from things like hazards or Knock Off.


These flaws are very hard to simply 'overlook', since Knock Off users and setup sweepers are far more common than Taunt. Audino and Lickilicky have ways to avoid being setup fodder, such as Encore as well as Body Slam and Dragon Tail, respectively. Spritzee has no such anti-setup move, and unlike Slurpuff it has zero passive recovery, so if it gets forced out by a threatening setup sweeper before receiving its own Wish, it won't get much chances to heal up safely again. Being a WishPasser that is reliant on Eviolite is already not looking up, since it not only misses out on the 62% recovery that Leftovers WishTecters receive, but Spritzee's bulk gets substantially cut by Knock Off as well as status, which also means that despite its resistances and cleric moves it doesn't make a good Knock Off or even status absorber.


For the most part, yes. Her niche is far too small and she does not have enough advantages to warrant her usage over clerics in the tier. Heck, her only niche is already shared by an existing cleric (

) which has better bulk (yes, including Eviolite), can afford Leftovers to lessen passive damage, and has anti-setup moves at its disposal. Say what you will about Fighting-types, but at least on the whole they are easier to cover than Poison-types, Steel-types, and almost every setup Pokemon in the tier.

It has a small niche tho, and that means that it's worthy of at least d-.

 

[Punchshroom]

It has a small niche tho, and that means that it's worthy of at least d-.

You know what can also be considered a 'niche'? Pikachu's Light Ball-boosted Extreme Speeds! Too bad almost everyone can agree that it is pretty much not worth it since much better priority users exist. This is the same case with Spritzee; it's not worth it, especially over much better Pokes which share a similiar niche, and frankly it has a lot of problems of its own that do not warrant its use, even if it didn't face such strong competition. Only mons that aren't more/completely outclassed by higher ranked users can be ranked (ex: Florges is unranked in OU since Sylveon and Clefable exist, even if it doesn't suck in OU), which is why you see things like Yanma and Lopunny are ranked, while things like Seaking and Illumise are not ranked.

Swoobat(C-) ------> C+

I've been using Swoobat recently as my lead and I've found it's been pretty effective at getting some kills. Sub + CM w/ Simple allows it to have 359 Speed (Max Speed with Timid) and 506 Special Attack after one Calm Mind, which you can get if people use their SR leads. It has it's problems, like dealing with priority, but for a lead, I'll take a kill or two, or potentially sweep. Air Slash / Psyshock allow to deal with the different walls pretty well, though Ferroseed is a slight problem if you don't run a Life Orb.

You know if I really wanted a Psychic-type anti-lead, I would've chosen Mesprit since it can either threaten a Calm Mind, or set up Stealth Rock. I see little reason to use Air Slash btw when Heat Wave, Giga Drain, and Hidden Power are overall more useful, and you can even run Stored Power over Psyshock, since Simple Calm Mind + Stored Power is kind of Swoobat's thing. Despite's Swoobat's powerful offensive potential, the fact is that it not only has a lot of trouble setting up safely (physical attacks and status screw it over), but it is also very vulnerable to Scarfers and priority, aka anything that manages to move before it. At least fellow high-risk, high-reward setup sweeper Linoone can at least fend for itself against priority with Extreme Speed. C at most, but it can stay in C-.

Soulblaster almost all special Mesprits carry HP Fire. EVen if it doesn't OHKO Ferroseed, Ferro ain't beating Mesprit anyway.

 

[Politoad]

Swoobat(C-) ------> C+

I've been using Swoobat recently as my lead and I've found it's been pretty effective at getting some kills. Sub + CM w/ Simple allows it to have 359 Speed (Max Speed with Timid) and 506 Special Attack after one Calm Mind, which you can get if people use their SR leads. It has it's problems, like dealing with priority, but for a lead, I'll take a kill or two, or potentially sweep. Air Slash / Psyshock allow to deal with the different walls pretty well, though Ferroseed is a slight problem if you don't run a Life Orb.

I agree with this. Swoobat has some niches like Simple that allow it to break through a good amount of Pokemon, due the variety of its movepool. You mention Ferroseed is a problem, but you can run Heat Wave, provides great coverage and stops Ferroseed, most importantly. I have to mention a good offensive typing that has good coverage against many different types. I can't see this thing going any further however.

Punchshroom basically the thing Swoobat has over Mesprit, basically the only, is its better Speed and the speeding up of Calm Mind. Mesprit can't beat Ferroseed either, while Swoobat can. It's very vulnerable to physical attackers and priority, that Mesprit isn't, however. HP Fire is lived by Ferroseed the first time, and this way it can seed it after or paralyze it, that can really suck for Mesprit because when it either forces it to switch out, or allows Mesprit to lose turns by not moving at all, and just being more vulnerable to Ghost, Dark and Ghost-type attackers.

Punchshroom this message was edited.

 

[Ice_Cold345]

I agree with this. Swoobat has some niches like Simple that allow it to break through a good amount of Pokemon, due the variety of its movepool. You mention Ferroseed is a problem, but you can run Heat Wave, provides great coverage and stops Ferroseed, most importantly. I have to mention a good offensive typing that has good coverage against many different types. I can't see this thing going any further however.

Punchshroom basically the thing Swoobat has over Mesprit, basically the only, is its better Speed and the speeding up of Calm Mind. Mesprit can't beat Ferroseed either, while Swoobat can. It's very vulnerable to physical attackers and priority, that Mesprit isn't, however.

Yeah, with it's speed, it doesn't have to deal with status as a lead barring Prankster since you can just get a free sub if they decide to use status. It's got it's problems, but it's not that bad of a lead pokemon. Simple is pretty much the thing that makes it any good really, because it allows it to take some special hits, depending on the pokemon.

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Magmortar from B+ to A-

Magmortar in itself is kinda insane in the metagame, it breaks so many things, it's such a powerful and effective wallbreaker.
Due to very nice coverage and the ability to run Mixed in order to rip off teams even more, Magmortar will always accomplish his job very well against all sorts of teams.
Hell, this thing even has a reputation of having no safe switches in the tier! How is that not A Rank Material?
The only major problem with Magmortar is his weakness to hazard, and it's kinda frail, and while it's not extremely slow ( 83 Speed is not that bad ) , Magmy's speed isn't the best either.
So, with all these pros for some crippling flaws that can be solved quite easily with the right team mates, Magmortar definitly deserve a spot in the A Ranks.

 

[The Quasar]

I agree with Celever and Dentricos about Mantine on B-. It's very bulky with a great SpD and decent HP, with a Modest/Timid nature is also a excellent rain setter (as well as defogger as Ceveler said). I used it in old 5 gen with Damp Rock and its powerful STABs as Hydro Pump and Air Slash, useful vs every bulky Grass-type.
Another set could be interesting was SubToxic with Water Absorb, remaining a great answer to Ludicolo. Its pains are SR weak, lack recovering HP and a limited movepool. Of course it's suggested a strong SR defogger teammate, so a Wish passer support like Audino or Slurpuff could be very important to increase its longevity.
Since rain teams are not so uncommon, i think Mantine could be a good choice, with rain team or vs them too).

 

[Politoad]

Magmortar from B+ to A-

Magmortar in itself is kinda insane in the metagame, it breaks so many things, it's such a powerful and effective wallbreaker.
Due to very nice coverage and the ability to run Mixed in order to rip off teams even more, Magmortar will always accomplish his job very well against all sorts of teams.
Hell, this thing even has a reputation of having no safe switches in the tier! How is that not A Rank Material?
The only major problem with Magmortar is his weakness to hazard, and it's kinda frail, and while it's not extremely slow ( 83 Speed is not that bad ) , Magmy's speed isn't the best either.
So, with all these pros for some crippling flaws that can be solved quite easily with the right team mates, Magmortar definitly deserve a spot in the A Ranks.

I disagree with this. It can't switch into anything, dies to almost anything that doesn't resist it and sort of needs Life Orb to show of its true power, that makes it kind of suffers from recoil. It's completely walled by bulky Water-types in the tier, Lanturn and Seismitoad, for example that have no trouble switching in and can beat magmortar (they are also p common pokemon) Magmortar needs p much support in order to work, and loses to any water-type in the tier. Ground- and Rock types are easy switch-ins that kill Magmortar and only have to fear for a weak HP Grass.

 

[tennisace]

I don't particularly have an opinion on Magmortar's rank, but I will say that mostly everything you said in that paragraph is false. The set in the analysis (and really the best set Magmortar can run) is Fire Blast / Thunderbolt / Earthquake / HP Grass

4 Atk Life Orb Magmortar Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 198-234 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Magmortar Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Seismitoad: 421-499 (101.6 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Magmortar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dragalge: 195-231 (58.3 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Magmortar Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 286-338 (69 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Magmortar Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 166-198 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

"Completely walled by bulky Water-types" and "Ground- and Rock types are easy switch-ins" aren't true, Magmortar can power through them even if you don't initially predict right.

Also, of course you shouldn't be switching Magmortar into anything; it's no different from Typhlosion in that manner.

 

[Ghostfear]

4 Atk Life Orb Magmortar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Probopass: 224-265 (69.1 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Crustle: 199-234 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Politoad]

can, not being ensured. regirock is sample of a great check

 

[kay]

Regirock dies to focus blast. You'd need to scout which set Magmortar is running before you can bring in your "check"

252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 278-328 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Altaria and Grumpig are the only two real safe switch ins to Magmortar.

 

[soulgazer]

idk if it was mentionned before, but Sceptile should rise to A- -> A imo, really good right now. Not much can take two hits from Sceptile, and the counters to the special set (mainly Poison-types) are just destroyed by the Swords Dance set, which is quite good too btw. I even remember trying out a mixed set with Earthquake > Substitute and it worked decently well as it helps hit Fire-types like Typhlosion, Pyroar, or Magmortar trying to live a Focus Blast to KO Sceptile / punch holes in your team (needs Stealth Rock up). It's not too frail, which is nice as it makes Sceptile a good check to Gatr and is able to switch on some weak attacks comfortably.

I also think that Audino should drop. Now sure it is one of the best cleric NU has, but that doesn't mean it deserves to be in A. Stall really struggles in the current metagame, and it is quite easy to shut down Audino with Taunt, strong attackers, and hazards (yes, entry hazards. even if Audino has regenerator, entry hazards stops it from getting back to full, forcing it to wish to heal itself). I have seen people use it on Balance teams too, and it's literally just a sitting duck healing up its teammates while allowing the opponent to set up easily. The most common set from experience is Wish / Protect / Knock Off / Heal Bell (Knock Off is necessary as otherwise NP Mismagius can punch huge holes in stall teams), which isn't really the best to prevent set up sweepers. It can obliviously choose to run Encore over either Knock and Bell, but then status beats it or Ghost-types can do all they want. Audino should be in B+.

 

[tennisace]

can, not being ensured. regirock is sample of a great check

I guess if you want to be pedantic yeah sure there's a 4% chance Magmortar misses the 2hko straight up with HP Grass, but Regirock can only come in once because:

252+ SpA Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 125-147 (34.3 - 40.3%) -- 42.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Agreeing with Soulgazer on Audino, it's good but the metagame isn't very kind to it right now as it can get forced out easily by a lot of different threats (mainly stuff like gatr and Kabutops use it as set up fodder).

 

[Roar of Noob]

I think the most viable set on Audino is Knock Off/Encore/Wish/Protect. Not having Heal Bell hurts its role on the team and limits teambuilding options of a Stall team because you still need a Heal Beller. Homever, Encore is so vital on Audino that it's not almost worth running without it. (Non attacking sets are just awful.) Audino becomes an actual threat to opponent team instead of just something the opponent can freely abuse. Also it's not common enough to expect it on Audino makes it even better.

And positive thing end here. That just exactly makes playing with Stall (and Audino) so depressing right now. Best case scenario you encored sub or belly drum. But most likely you encored a stat boosting move, but Audino can't still do damage and sometimes can't even break the subs. So you switched into counter and luckily can 2ohko the opponent so it switches out. The worst case scenario is (and the most likely happens) you can't 2ohko said sweeper and it's still boosting like hell; the only thing you can do switching into your phazer and phaze it out. You saved yourself for this time but unless you stacked serious entry hazards, opposing team lost nothing and can create the same situation and easily abuse it because you have to play so pradictable.

Even Audino is great and very versatile, it can just became a burden in couple of turns. So I agree with Soulgazer too.

 

[Politoad]

Regirock dies to focus blast. You'd need to scout which set Magmortar is running before you can bring in your "check"

252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 278-328 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Altaria and Grumpig are the only two real safe switch ins to Magmortar.

tennisace said himself fblast isn't the best on mag, why use it lol

 

[Celever]

tennisace said himself fblast isn't the best on mag, why use it lol

To easily defeat Regirock..?

It may not be the standard, but on something like mortar you have the possibility of many different options, so you should look at synergy. I think that that's also what Sir Kay meant when he said that you also have to scout which set it is -- he meant the moves.

 

[boltsandbombers]

To easily defeat Regirock..?

It may not be the standard, but on something like mortar you have the possibility of many different options, so you should look at synergy. I think that that's also what Sir Kay meant when he said that you also have to scout which set it is -- he meant the moves.

Also, it blasts through audino / lickilicky:P

 

[Brawlfest]

Heatmor Unlisted to C- / C
Heatmor definitely shouldn't be unlisted. Although it is rather outclassed when compared to Magmortar, it does have some merits that set it apart. To start with, it has Sucker Punch which caters it to deal well with faster HO pokemon that Magmortar commonly has difficulty dealing with, making it a lot harder to straight up check Heatmor. Furthermore, it has Giga Drain, which gives it some form of longevity, and Superpower is amazing as it allows Heatmor to get past stuff like Audino which walls Magmortar. Flash Fire is also definitely a merit for Heatmor, letting it safely come in on the likes of Typhlosion or opposing Magmortar with little opportunity cost. Heatmor surprisingly isn't terrible and definitely has a niche, and I feel has enough pros to carve it a spot in C- / C.

For the record I can be argued for Magmortar to go either way between B+ and A-, but it depends on the argument. I feel that Magmortar is an incredible pokemon and I constantly use it due to its ability to tear through stall teams with 0 setup whatsoever, and so many common NU teams are pressured hard by its strong coverage and decent speed.