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Gen 5 NU Viability Rankings 2.0

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Raseri, May 26, 2013.

  1. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Musharna changed somewhat since the RU drops. The shift of bulky offense to more aggressive offense meant Musharna can't Calm Mind as easily as it once did to easily decimate teams. It also has to keep an eye on its health so a certain ogre Pede doesn't spring out and skewer her. Even its STAB can be a conflicting choice: Psychic leaves you vulnerable to Jynx if Mushy doesn't have Signal Beam, whereas Psyshock doesn't have the special defense drop effect that could end stall wars and does pittance to Alomo, Torkoal and even Weezing. Mushy's speed also holds it back (much like Ferrothorn), as almost any Sub or Taunt in the tier can stop it from statusing and/or healing.

    Offensive sets can indeed catch opponents off guard, provided you can hide your lack of Leftovers or bluff the opponent at the expense of power from LO. In any case, Beheeyem still gives Mushy competition with Thunderbolt and Nasty Plot, which can deal with Mushy's newest nemesis in Mandibuzz.

    Of course, one does not simply forget about Mushy's infamous bulk, reliable recovery and great utility in Thunder Wave and Heal Bell, making it a great panic button in many situations. If we're still doing S-Rank subtiers I have no qualms having it put in Low-S.
  2. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    the shift to offense really didn't change musharna's viability much. sure cm is worse because there is more things it needs to "wall" but on the other hand, musharna has an easier time walling things because there is more weaker but fast threats than stronger but slower threats. the strongest + slower threats are worse for mushy because she's gonna be outsped by them anyways. you don't see things like guts ursaring or zangoose much anymore who could rip through a musharna easily. offensive teams have issues switching into musharna too because they risk getting crippled by thunder wave, so just because scolipede can break through mushy doesn't mean offense has no issues with mushy. you need a good portion of your team to be able to beat mushy for it not to be an issue. it takes such a long time to beat mushy that by the time you do, she's already crippled some of your team, and did some moderate damage. substitute and taunt aren't really good arguments against musharna because she easily does over 30% to frail offensive mons with psychic. there's mandibuzz sure, but that's not much of a hyper offensive pokemon. mandibuzz does also not want to risk getting status'd at all, otherwise she loses most of her potential. she wants to be in at the same time as the mon with status so she can shut it down.

    mushy is also a very good momentum grabber which is sooooooo useful for offensive teams. having momentum over the opponent is the key to success on these offensive teams as they allow your mons to overwhelm the opposition with ease.

    she's the same viable as she's always been (which was pretty much the most consistent and dependable mon in the tier), just the way she plays is slightly different in this meta.
    Hollywood and Raseri like this.
  3. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    Yeah I agree with everyone here about Musharna and we should definitely give it another chance to step into the S-rank. From what I've remembered, Musharna dropping in the first place had a bit of silly reasoning behind it (such as it not being able to deal with the fast paced nature of the metagame and being taken advantaged of by the new drops, but of which aren't necessarily true towards its effectiveness). In all honestly, Musharna is still one of the most versatile pivots in the tier and easily one of the best answers to most popular physical attackers and defensive threats. Most offensive teams in this metagame has foregone powerful wall-breakers that are capable of breaking through Musharna without much effort in favor of faster offensive threats that depend on a bit of prior damage to maintain the KOs that they naturally get, and Musharna takes advantage of that very well because of its amazing bulk. Synchronize is also an excellent ability that allows Musharna to shut down a lot of defensive Pokemon that depends on status to wear it down, while also being able to support itself with reliable recovery with Moonlight and healing off that status with Heal Bell.

    Musharna has several options that its capable of running that all perform a vast number of different roles, and is able to support a variety of team members and create some form of nice synergy depending on the options provided. Such things include Thunder Wave, which allows Musharna to cripple faster teams to help its hard-hitting teammates or various setup sweepers take advantage on the process. Heal Bell in particular is very common, which allows it to support the team of any form of status that Pokemon such as Misdreavus or Jynx would be likely spreading. There's also Baton Pass, which of course provides Musharna so many opportunities to provide momentum for the team, while even being able to pass Calm Mind boosts towards a teammate for free if it move last.

    More towards the offensive side, Musharna of course sports quite a presence there that can hit surprisingly hard under many circumstances. While Calm Mind is indeed less effective to pull off successful towards more offensive teams and due to the rise of Steel-types and Mandibuzz's placing in the tier, it can still function as a frustrating sweeper to deal with since most offensive threats don't really appreciate taking boosted hits while it is still capable of going on the mix of pivoting against threats when needed, thanks to its recovery in Moonlight, utility on Synchronize, great bulk, and the ability to cover a specific slot for a coverage or support move. These advantages allows it to gain a placing on even stall teams to function as a necessary win condition there.

    Speaking of Offensive Trick Room, this allows it to take advantage of the fast, frail offensive metagame a lot better than it's traditional Calm Mind set, being capable of sweeping with Trick Room and Life Orb boosted attacks. While Beheeyem may appear to pull a set like this much better off due to its significantly higher offensive presence and utility with Analytic, Musharna stands out due to its notably superior bulk, which allows Musharna to find a lot more setup opportunities and heal off much more reliably than Beheeyem. While it sacrifices a bit of its defensive potential, it's still has good bulk and can immediately threaten a lot of teams that doesn't carry a Dark-type.

    Overall, Musharna is one of the few Pokemon that I myself can very much say that very rarely would a team be better off without it. It has so much utility and is able to utilize it so much with its durability that I don't see why it shouldn't be move up.
    DTC likes this.
  4. Arcticblast

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    I may not really have enough experience to go as in-depth as DTC and Agent Dell have, but I can certainly agree with Musharna for S-rank. Regardless of the new drops, it's still ridiculously bulky and an excellent check to powerhouses like CB Sawk (Adamant Stone Edge isn't even a guaranteed KO against 252/0 Musharna) and it still hits hard in its own right. I've been using OTR Musharna after finding that CM wasn't working on my team, and it's crazy how much it can do in a single match - things are just dropping left and right to LO Psychic, and if they happen to resist it you have Signal Beam to hit most of those. Unfortunately it needs a boosting nature and Life Orb to OHKO Jynx with Signal Beam, but it's not like that really hurts Musharna, since even if you somehow miss a KO you're probably going to get the chance to KO next turn. Musharna for S-rank indeed.
  5. Raseri

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    OK I added A-rank divisions to the OP, I think I got them right based on discussion, if I did something really wrong let me know and I'll fix it!

    I've also added Musharna to low S for the time being.

    Also, before we move on to dividing B-rank, there are a few things I'd like to discuss.

    First of all, move Exeggutor to low A from B. Exeggutor is a great Pokemon right now, it walls half the meta and has a bunch of great sets that all have diffeent counters. SubHarvest, Sunny Day, Specs, and even mixed has been going up in usage lately. Exeggutor has great stats for NU, and combined with its versatility makes it low or potentially mid A material. SubHarvest is the main reason I'm nomming it now though, it can stall out unprepared teams much easier than anything else.

    Second of all, drop Regirock to B tier. It just isn't that great right now, a lot of the top Pokemon can take advantage of it to no end. It has amazing bulk, but the lack of Ground-typing makes me want to use Golem or Golurk almost every time. If it had an electric immunity it would be amazing, but right now it kills momentum a lot faster than other standard stealth rock leads.

    Also I'm fine with moving Walrein up, i'll go nab its sprite sometime soon and edit it into the OP. Regigigas i have doubts about because I really dont want to encourage people to use it, but if the majority of you think it should be moved up I'm fine with that.
  6. Lolk

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    I agree with Exeggutor moving up for the mentioned reasons, but I am a little shaky on moving Regirock down to B. The tier shifts have been nothing but nice for him with the ability to scare out Scolipede and Mandi. Twave support can nab almost all counters beautifully (Primeape/Ludicolo) and it takes kanga Fake outs like a boss. Stone Edge/Drain Punch has awesome coverage and some recovery. And the ability to set up Rocks on almost any physical attacker is sexy. Low A Min imo
  7. Ashley11

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    Exeggutor should definitely move up to A rank. It's subseed set eats the ladder up and the choice specs set 2 hit kos most of the tier and one hit kos almost all of the offensive threats out there right now. It's typing is also very nice because you resist sawk's close combat and it also has 2 great stabs to utilize offensively, and can beat most stealth rock leads with Giga drain or leaf storm.
  8. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    eggy for A is a good idea, as is walrein moving up

    i don't really agree with regirock for b though. it may not be the strongest pokemon for offense but that thunder wave on such a bulky pokemon is sooooo great. he's so damn durable too with his amazing defense + drain punch. even vs a pokemon like cb sawk, he can still set up SR AND cripple the sawk with thunder wave, which is pretty incredible considering cb sawk is supposed to be the best pokemon at preventing rocks. he obviously has issues with special attacking water- and grass-types, as well as certain ground-types like golurk, but other than that, he's stupidly solid on bulky offense teams. another very notable thing about regirock is he is much harder to wear down because of drain punch unlike every sr setter besides cradily / solrock (who are pretty niche). this is especially important for beating something like swellow who loves to abuse how easy it is to wear down all of the normal/flying resists with spikes support.

    i've even ran regirock when i needed a normal/flying resist when i used a sr setter who doesn't resist that like piloswine with a moveset of thunder wave / stone edge / drain punch / curse and it worked pretty damn well. curse regirock is similar to something like cm musharna (except less outdated) in that you don't really need to set up but it's a very viable option depending on what the opponent has left. after a curse, you basically become immune to every single physical attack ever and can recover back any damage they do to you with drain punch.

    regirock may not be top A material, but he's still incredibly viable. to say he's bad for momentum is silly because he hits pretty hard and has thunder wave. i'd say something like metang is much worse for momentum, but it's still a very viable mon despite that. the only thing that's really negative about regirock is the fact that golurk and seismitoad can switch in super easily, which is a fair complaint about him, but remember you can always use ice punch to lure and kill golurk. if there is a reason regirock goes down to B, it's this, because an electric immunity really isn't that important. most of the electric-types are honestly pretty mediocre atm. eelektross is a bit of an issue considering the teams regirock is usually on, but that's about it.

    also, lolkomori, primeape's are generally scarf atm, which get absolutely demolished by regirock. switching in to regirock as a primeape is not a smart choice because you can get crippled by twave. if you're crippled by twave as a scarf primeape, you're pretty much done for.

    :toast:
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  9. Lolk

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    yeah i meant to say something like "the stuff that can kill it, doesn't want to switch into it"
  10. Punchshroom

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    I would've agreed for Eggy to be A-Rank (low A) easily, but the newcomer Mandibuzz stops it from doing...pretty much anything. Taunt, Toxic and Whirlwind all stop the SubSeed set easily, while offensive Eggys are stopped outright without Sleep Powder. The fact that it is Mandibuzz's best interest to outspeed Adamant Golurks does Eggy no favors. I'd settle for Top B when that comes along.
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  11. Othesemo

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    The thing is, the exact same thing could be said about Skuntank. Having used both Subseed and Offensive sets prior to the Mandibuzz drop, it was still necessary to run some sort of teammate support to reliably function. If, once the tier stabilizes again, the combined usage of Skuntank and Mandibuzz is noticeably higher than Skuntank's usage in past months, it would certainly be a hit to Eggy's viability. Still, if the two of them simply split Skuntank's old uses between them, it shouldn't represent too dramatic a change.

    That said, I'm not certain that I would support Eggy for A rank anyways, given that nearly all of its sets are hard-countered by the sixth most common mon in the tier. Looking through A rank, just about every mon there can reasonably function without any dedicated support, or better yet, take on a dedicated supporter role on the team. Running Eggy without a reliable way to eliminate opposing Skuntank is pretty damn risky, and you can't just throw him onto a team as easily as you could with other A rank pokemon. And, of course, Mandibuzz does him no favors. I think that B (top B when we get to it) would be more appropriate.
  12. Spirit

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    Yeah, I also have to agree, Eggy for A. It's just a very solid Pokemon right now, it's ridiculously powerful, has a great movepool, and can run just about anyway set. SubSeed stalls that shit out of everything, LumRest is a great pivot for offensive teams, Sunny Day can basically turn the match upside down its head, Specs tears holes in any team lacking Mandibuzz, and even Trick Room can work. It's true that Mandibuzz hard counters it, but Eggy has Sleep Powder to discourage it from switching in. I also wouldn't fall along some kind of precedent that, "this has a counter, so it can't be good", because a lot of A-rank threats, and heck some S-rank threats have hard counters as well. Sleep Powder basically puts it into the "no counter" zone anyway, but that's obvious. It's kinda like how Musharna can run HP Ground to screw with Skuntank and Metang.
  13. Punchshroom

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    I'll agree that I've undermined Eggy's versatility in terms of movesets, but 7 weaknesses (many are common) and low speed means it constantly fears for its life, not unlike Golurk. It does have nifty resistances accompanied with good (physical) bulk, again not unlike Golurk. It does have ways to circumvent these issues, with Substitute, Sunny Day and even Trick Room. Top-B or low-A is fine with me.
  14. Punchshroom

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    Alright, I've been pretty half-assed with my explanations about Exeggutor so far, but now I can elaborate thoroughly on what I think of each of Eggy's most viable/common sets.

    Specs: Bar none the most powerful Grass-type move in the tier. To put it into perspective, it's as strong as Hydreigon's Draco Meteor. The problem is of course, it's a Grass-type move, and no amount of coverage is going to make up for the plethora of Grass resists. It has STAB Psychic/Psyshock to fall back on for reliability. Unfortunately Mandibuzz, who sponges Specs Leaf Storm loads better than Skunk can and has reliable recovery, will always be a thorn in Eggy's side, but Eggy has Sleep Powder or Trick to screw with her, as well as other walls. While this Eggy is very hard to switch into safely, it is the easiest to revenge kill as it has done nothing to resolve its speed and weaknesses issue, not to mention Leaf Storm's side effect is more prominent in this meta full of deadly set-up threats.

    Sun: Sun does a couple of things for Eggy - double its speed, give it a strong Grass STAB, and powers up HP Fire if you have it. It also guarantees Harvest activation, but Harvest sets shouldn't need to set up Sun for themselves. This Eggy has the greatest sweeping potential, but its low speed leaves it vulnerable to Choice Scarfers even under Sun, forcing it to run Timid to outpace base 95 Scarfers like Jynx or Primeape and obliterate them. Sunny Eggy is also put on a timer on its sweep; it may be able to set up Sun with its bulk and resistances, but when the Sun ends, more often than not Eggy is staring danger right in the face (no thanks to 7 weaknesses), so the Sun can't be set again. Mandibuzz is still there to stop its sweep, and can easily stall out Sun turns too.

    Harvest: SubSeed sets come to mind first when talking about Harvest. SubSeed makes full use of its resists and natural bulk while mitigating its numerous weaknesses with the use of Substitute. With Leech Seed and Sitrus Berry, it can do it again and again, easily frustrating many players who cannot OHKO Exeggutor. However, Eggy is often forced out if a faster opponent switches into Leech Seed or Substitute and threatens a OHKO while Eggy cannot OHKO back, usually resulting in chip damage from Leech Seed as the impact of your short-lived stay. I'd rather use a Specs set to wreak as much havoc as possible if I'm going to stay in for a mere 2-3 turns, and trouble the defensive teams that SubSeed Eggy thrives against. SubSeed Eggy is also shut down by Sub or Taunt users, especially if they happen to be Dark-type, like Skuntank, Liepard and Mandibuzz. The other popular Harvest set uses Lum Berry as a makeshift status absorber that packs a punch and has instant recovery with Rest, which can certainly appeal to offensive teams. Keep in mind that Harvest only works 50% of the time without Sun, so don't over-rely on it.

    Did I mention how much Exeggutor hates Mandibuzz?

    All in all, Eggy has a good variety of sets to distinguish itself from its Grass and Psychic brethren, and does them well enough to warrant a spot in low-A / top-B, if only because its weaknesses and low speed hold it back like Golurk does, with the addition of poor special bulk that prevents it from stopping nearly all offensive Water-types.
  15. Annoyer

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    ugh. disgusting.

    Regirock is so easily A-rank (bottom tho) just because of its sheer bulk. Also I don't get why you stated Regirock as a Stealth Rock lead when honestly, unless you're a custap golem, it's generally not wise to lead with your stealth rocker (especially with Regirock). Normal and Flying type resistances are hard to find, and its even harder to find such a reliable one as Regirock. I get that it doesn't have an electric immunity but thats why you would pair it up with something like Seismitoad or Golurk which are both excellent partners for it. Other than twave which is great on regirock for crippling loads of threats (ludicolo, rott, jynx, rotoms, scoli, sawk), it can also run toxic which allows it to cripple stuff like Alomomola, Tangela, Seismitoad, and Golurk. Drain punch might not seem like reliable recovery but it actually is pretty decent considering that drain punch hits a lot of stuff and regirock can recover little by little. My favorite set on regirock is rocky helmet with some defensive investment with an Impish nature which allows it to wall the fuck out of basically every normal type in the tier which stuff like golurk and golem cant nearly do reliably. rocky helmet also wears down things with so much more ease. Regirock can also deal with most electric-types decently well too because of its overall great bulk. It's also a great braviary counter and it even beats the subbu one if you hit your stone edges at the right time. another thing about regirock that is different from other stealth rockers is that it lasts so much longer throughout the match. i know that this may seem like it depends on the player and it does to some extent, but it is so much more likely that a regirock will be still alive later in the game near the end game while the golurk/golem would probably have died at the mid game or earlier, and this is actually really important since most good players would save their swellow in reserve once the rock type is gone or weakened enough, but regirock will have an easier time to still be alive at that point. also the golurk/seismitoads switch ins are so fucking obvious for a double switch so you can basically use regirock to your advantage for momentum. so basically i will cry for 8 days straight if regirock gets moved to B rank because it should definitely be bottom A rank.

    eggy for bottom a rank too because all of its sets provide some sort of utility and sleep powder is so good on a pokemon when usually theres only one mon on the opposing team that can take on eggy so you can just cripple it. lumrest is easily my favorite one just because of its ability to cockblock most rock types as well as alomomola and tangela and be an amazing status absorber and pivot at the same time. its two stabs and high base power moves also make it a great offensive threat at the same time. ill talk more about eggy for a rank later if ppl disagree since mainly i jus want regirock to be bottom A rank.
    Spirit, ebeast, Magcargo and 2 others like this.
  16. Hollywood

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    Every Pokemon, even our S-Rank ones, has its checks and counters, and Exeggutor is no exception. Yeah, Mandibuzz is probably the closest thing to a pure counter that you can get in the tier, and it practically shits on all of its sets. Obviously that's something you'll want to cover when you're teambuilding with Exeggutor. Also, I recommend using Toxic Spikes support with the SubSeed Harvest set. I tried it out recently, and it's seriously so funny to play with. Your opponent brings in a faster Pokemon while you Sub? That's fine, because you can just Sub and Protect stall until it dies. Obviously after a while this gets pretty obvious, so shaking your opponent up with a random Sub when they expect you to Protect can be really useful, especially if you've already Harvested your Sitrus Berry.

    While it does have some weaknesses to common attacking types, Exeggutor also has some great resistances to Water- and Fighting-type attacks. Its many weaknesses don't keep it from being effective though—Celebi shares its typing and is one of the best defensive Pokemon in OU at the moment. While they can certainly hold it back, weaknesses alone don't make a Pokemon totally ineffective. Specs set hits incredibly hard, SubSeed Harvest sets are annoying to break, and just in general it's a great Pokemon for all of the reasons other people have pointed out.

    Exeggutor for Low A-Rank
  17. Punchshroom

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    It's been 2 weeks, and I'm ready to give my verdict on Mandibuzz.

    So far, Mandibuzz is a very positive change for the tier. Our most solid Golurk switch-in? Slowing down (ever so slightly) the surge of heavy offense? Yes please. Mandibuzz's bulk and Foul Play make offensive teams pause before taking her on, whereas Taunt and Roost (+ Toxic) along with decent speed result in a nightmare of a poke for defensive teams to bring down. Whirlwind also stops her from being setup bait. Mandibuzz I find is just a really good failsafe option, particularly against physical attackers thanks to Foul Play, and has bulk reminiscent to that of Musharna, while being just as hard to kill, if not more so. That is mainly because Rock-types, the few that can switch into Buzz somewhat safely and hit her super effectively, often struggle in the face of her bulk, Roost and Foul Play constantly wearing away at them, with Taunt stopping non-brute force tactics like Toxic or Shell Smash (yeah, physically defensive Mandibuzz can actually go toe to toe with a LO Carracosta, that's badass). There are also the talked-about SubRoost sets, which employ Toxic to stall opponents to death and stay alive thanks to fantastic bulk. They just simply refuse to die.

    I find myself comparing Mandibuzz with Musharna for a couple of reasons: most neutral hits barely faze them, they have reliable recovery, they have ways to keep status at bay, and have decent offensive presence. These qualities make Mandibuzz a premier defensive pokemon that can still find her place on more offensive teams, as she has access to the useful U-turn, which when combined with Taunt can screw up defensive pokemon and nab momentum from the opponent regardless of their switch. However, Mandibuzz still has some issues. Her typing grants her nifty resistances to Grass, Ground, Ghost, Dark and Psychic, but only neutrality or even weaknesses to the more common offensive types, such as Bug, Fighting, Ice, Electric and Rock, especially Stealth Rock which reduces her tanking ability. She also can't really cripple a threat on a rampage like Musharna's Thunder Wave can, instead relying on Whirlwind to force out boosted opponents she can't KO, though unlike Mushy Mandibuzz can KO a greater variety of threats thanks to Foul Play.

    Perhaps the best thing about Mandibuzz is that you won't be sure what defensive spread Mandibuzz is running (Mushys are either running physically defensive or just max HP). Physically defensive sets laugh at most of your Rock moves, whereas many special attacks, even STAB Thunderbolts, can glance off a specially defensive Mandibuzz's hide, and you won't know until you attack her head-on (which may not work out at all). Even mixed defensive sets are viable, as Buzz has more than enough bulk to throw around.

    [​IMG]Mandibuzz for Mid A-Rank.
  18. Raseri

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    High B​
    [​IMG] Drifblim​
    [​IMG] Gardevoir​
    [​IMG] Golbat​
    [​IMG] Gothorita​
    [​IMG] Liepard​
    [​IMG] Mantine​
    [​IMG] Miltank​
    [​IMG] Roselia​
    [​IMG] Rotom-Frost​
    [​IMG] Skuntank​
    [​IMG] Swanna​
    [​IMG] Tangela​
    [​IMG] Weezing​


    Mid B​
    [​IMG]Audino​
    [​IMG] Beheeyem​
    [​IMG] Camerupt​
    [​IMG] Gorebyss​
    [​IMG] Kadabra​
    [​IMG] Lickilicky​
    [​IMG] Pinsir​
    [​IMG] Probopass​
    [​IMG] Regice​
    [​IMG] Rotom-Fan​
    [​IMG] Sawsbuck​
    [​IMG] Shiftry​
    [​IMG] Volbeat​
    [​IMG] Zebstrika​

    Low B​
    [​IMG] Combusken​
    [​IMG] Electabuzz​
    [​IMG] Floatzel​
    [​IMG] Rapidash​
    [​IMG] Simipour​
    [​IMG] Simisage​
    [​IMG] Simisear​
    [​IMG] Throh​
    [​IMG] Torkoal​
    [​IMG] Torterra​
    [​IMG] Ursaring​
    [​IMG] Victreebel​
    [​IMG] Vileplume​


    At work right now so cant go into detailed explanations til tonight. Feel free to discuss b rank now, as well as Mandibuzz and anything else youd like to see moved. I'll try to explain some more tonight
  19. Lasagne

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    I would like to suggest that gothorita moves down to Mid B.
    I've used it a decent amount and its always just .... underwhelming. The points where it is useful are very situational, I find, as many of the things you trap either set up on you, stall you out, or just straight up kill you. Admittedly, it can be useful against something not too powerful choice locked, such as scarf primeape locked into CC. In that case,, it can come in and set up with ease, which is why I'm not pushing for low b rank. I just feel that too many Pokemon that you might want to trap run volturn or baton pass. I don't think gothorita is effective enough in the current meta to be high B, especially when largely influential Pokemon such as lickilicky, gorebyss and even pinsir are down in mid b.
  20. Leafshield

    Leafshield

    Joined:
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    I don't have too much experience with Gothorita. It's like that thing where you go to make a team, and you see it and think "that would be cool to use!", but then you never really use it. I may have to though, seems sorta interesting.

    I'm going to nominate Ursaring for Mid-B.

    To put it simply; almost nothing takes a hit from Guts Ursaring. Even the sturdiest of walls are completely demolished by STAB Facade, and not too many can take a Guts boosted Close Combat or Crunch, either. Its coverage is just right for breaking walls for free in the NU tier, and it has access to both Swords Dance and Bulk Up to muscle through what it can't just OHKO right off the bat. Quick Feet is also really great, as it also boosts Facade, and fixes what is probably Ursaring's biggest problems, that being its speed. You can even use it as a choiced status absorber, utilizing a Choice Band or a Choice Scarf to obtain either unfathomable power or a fantastic mix of power and speed. All in all, Ursaring is an extremely powerful Pokemon who easily manhandles the more defensive teams that are beginning to gain popularity in the tier. Of course, Ursa has its problems, most notably its low speed, weakness to Mach Punch, sub-par defenses, and the fact that it's on a timer due to its Status Orb. But, I just can't see it belonging in Low-B.
  21. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Gothorita is such a good pokemon and 100% deserves high B ranking. This poke can single handlely take down any stall team unless it switches into a skuntank (not that common on stall teams) or mandibuzz (which it can trick a choice scarf if used and foul play isnt doing much anyway), and baton pass musharna (though again, it can be tricked a scarf). Gothorita can also eliminate any fighting type in the tier, especially those sawks and primeapes locked into close combat, freeing up a sweep with klang, Tauros or any set up poke weak to primeape close combats. Gothorita runs 2 very good sets in my opinion in a physically bulky eviolite set and a choice scarf set, which makes it more than a one trick pony. Though it might be a little difficult to place on a team, if played correctly, gothorita is an extremely underrated threat.
    I also believe Combusken and Floatzel deserve mid B ranking. THough combusken has to rely on 2 somewhat inaccurate moves (for the special set) to be effective, its move hit for massive damage and is extremely threatening late game (combusken can also get past kangaskan pretty well thanks to protect and a resisted sucker punch). Floatzel may be a little more difficult to justify because of samurott and carracosta being two huge physical threats, however, it has the potential to damage pokes in a variety of ways, from strong stab moves, priority, extra increased versatility under rain, ability to trick a choice band onto a wall, or even bulk up baton passing into a potential threat. Sure, floatzel does not have all these traits on one set, however, it has enough flexability and enough strength to be given the higher rank
  22. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

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    Yeah, not sure 'bout the rest, but Combusken for Mid B Rank is good. After a few boosts, it's capable of late game sweeping teams with its high-powered STABs that also provide good coverage for the metagame—hitting stuff like Jynx, Scolipede, and Kangaskhan super-effectively. While Charizard can do that too, Combusken doesn't take too much from SR and the acquired Fighting-type STAB is useful for hitting Piloswine and Lickilicky harder than Charizard. I would push it further to Top-B Rank if it wasn't for the inacuraccy of its STAB moves on its Special side as well as a better physical Fighting-type STAB, but low-B is not acceptable at all.
  23. Magcargo

    Magcargo
    is a Contributor to Smogon
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    [​IMG]
    Nominating Klang for Mid B-Rank
    In the current metagame, klang is one of the best setup sweepers in the tier, thanks to its amazing steel typing, which gives it key resistances to ice, psychic, normal, steel, rock and ghost. Several common pokemon, such as misdreavus, almomola and swellow can be used as setup bait thanks to this amazing typing. Because gear grind and shift gear are basically the only moves you will need, klang can afford to run rest and sleep talk, which increases its survivability. Of course, you could still run coverage moves like wild charge and return along with magnet rise and substitute to either avoid status moves or setup on ground types like torterra, as well as hit a wider variety of threats harder with your coverage move of choice.

    While klang has several key flaws, such as being weak to the common ground and fighting moves and an inability to hit steel types, I feel that klang has enough merits to become mid B-Rank.
    Hollywood, Lasagne and DTC like this.
  24. Infernis

    Infernis

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    I'd like to nominate Zebstrika for High-B. It has no bulk, it has only very weak priority (Quick Attack! It gets it!), it has only middling power, but by all the gods on Olympus it is fast. The Life Orb set gets decent power and can outrun and beat up Scolipede with ease. I think the set that truly shines, though, is the Scarf set. There are all of three Pokemon in NU faster that can be faster unboosted than Zebstrika with a scarf. Ninjask does not need a scarf. Electrode is very rare and needs a life orb to really hurt, and is better for utility moves besides. Swellow needs that status orb. Hence, Zebstrika is almost never outrun. If you have a team that can wear down the enemy's bulky Pokemon and ground types, Zebstrika can finish them. Against offensive teams, Zebstrika can manage on its own. It has a blazing fast Volt Switch that lets it escape while dealing damage, letting something with real bulk take the hit. Time and time again I've been able to Volt Switch out of fighting my opponent's scarfer, letting them finish off some death fodder, and then finish them off with a Thunderbolt. (Or Thunder if you have a bulky 'mon that can do Rain Dance!) The best part is that Skuntank's sucker punch can't massacre Zebstrika prematurely like it can do to many late-game cleaners. If you use Quick Attack on either set, Sucker Punch fails. It's magical.
  25. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Zebstrika is famous for its speed (and to extent his immunizing abilities), but also infamous because it's just too weak. 80 base Special Attack is very lackluster for something so fast and frail, as demonstrated by fellow Electric-type Electrode. Thunderbolt isn't strong enough against nearly any neutral target without the aid of Life Orb, and trying Thunder in Rain to make up for power would mean forgoing Overheat, one of Zebstrika's greatest selling points. Its Scarf set does outrun speedy threats though, particularly weather sweepers, but is otherwise very situational outside of that, struggling to OHKO threats without jumping around with Volt Switch first (beware of hazards or Substitute users!) and being almost deadweight against a defensive team due to its lack of strength. It also cannot deal with the primary Rain sweepers in Seismitoad (without HP Grass) or Ludicolo very reliably either, and is forced to Overheat Chlorophyll sweepers which can be seen coming a mile away. Oh, and using Overheat leaves you very wide open, so there's that.
    DTC likes this.

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