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Nuclear Offense - 5th Gen Ubers team (Peaked #6 on the PO Server, #6 on Smogon)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Celestavian, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. Celestavian

    Celestavian Let the fire consume me, let the courage flow through me
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion

    May 23, 2010

    Hello there Smogon. The Uber tier has always interested me since I first picked up competitive battling in early DP. However, I simply couldn't make a good Ubers team. I only just recently realized something: Ubers is full of the most broken Pokemon ever. It seems obvious, but once I realized this, I began to assemble a team that could take advantage of all this raw power. The result of my efforts is a team that "hyper offense" just can't describe, and instead, "nuclear offense" fits better, since everything hits like a nuke, either through sheer immediate power or through dangerous boosting moves. Here's a look:

    At a Glance​


    In-Depth Look​

    Zip (Shaymin-S) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

    - Seed Flare
    - Air Slash
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Shaymin-S is listed first, as it is usually my lead and is what I lead with when Wifi Clause is off. It is the best anti-lead in Ubers right now, as it is one of the few, if not only, Pokemon capable of stopping Deoxys-S from setting up even one layer of hazards. A big way to keep offensive teams healthy is to keep hazards off the field, and since the only Rapid Spinners truly powerful enough to hang with this gang are Doryuuzu and, to an extent, Starmie, my next best bet is to prevent hazards from entering the field in the first place. Shaymin-S flinches Deoxys-S, Forretress, and sometimes Nattorei to death. I have to play careful around Nattorei, however, as one non-flinch means I'm taking a Gyro Ball or Thunder Wave to the face. It's other moves are for coverage, and are rarely used as much as Air Slash is. This thing cleans up threats very easily, and is the glue of the team.

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 132 Def / 252 SAtk / 124 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment
    - Focus Blast
    - Recover

    The vast majority of successful Ubers teams have some form of Arceus on it. Ghost Arceus is here because it is excellent at what it does: CM'ing up and stopping the rampage of the ExtremeKiller. This thing loves coming in on -2 Dragons and CM'ing on the switch, and after one boost, very few members of the metagame can either kill or take a hit from it. Judgment and Focus Blast provide perfect neutral coverage, in addition to hitting all the Psychic- and Steel-types running around the tier. Recover adds a long of longevity, rounding out the moveset. The EVs are tailored to outrun +Speed base 90's (Dialga, Kyogre, Groudon, etc.) while the rest are put into Defense to add very useful bulk to Arceus. Arceus is arguably the bulkiest member of the team, and even so, it is no slacker when it comes to offense.

    Bluestar (Kyogre) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 SpD
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

    - Toxic
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder

    Kyogre is highly feared in the Ubers tier, and for good reason. Unfortunately for me, Kyogre doesn't accomplish much for me. It's job is to stop other Kyogre from tearing into me, and even at that it usually fails. I'm highly considering replacing it with Palkia. Hydro Pump is my STAB of choice, as Surf doesn't hit as hard as I'd like and Water Spout is too unreliable. Ice Beam and Thunder wrap up my coverage, hitting the Dragons, Lugia, and other Kyogre for big damage. Toxic is an odd choice, but it works on stuff like Arceus and Lugia and keeps them from destroying me.

    Battery (Deoxys-A) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)

    - Psycho Boost
    - Ice Beam
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Superpower

    Deoxys-A is pretty much what I built the team around, since it is the physical embodiment of "nuclear offense". I used to have a Specs set here, but with the advice of XxBlazePWBTxX I changed it to an LO set and I like it a lot better. Psycho Boost is my main attack to crush pretty much everything, while Ice Beam hits Dragons and Lugia harder and is a 100% accurate OHKO on Groudon. Superpower mashes Dialga, Ferrothorn, and the pink blobs into dust, who otherwise wall me. ExtremeSpeed finishes off sashed Pokemon and weakened stuff like Arceus and Mewtwo. Unfortunately, my lack of Speed investment prevents me from revenging other Deoxys formes. While it's definitely fragile, it breaks stall through sheer force and if I can get it in for free, something on my opponent's team is going to get hit hard.

    Heat Meiser (Groudon) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

    - Thunder Wave
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch
    - Dragon Claw

    Groudon is my check to Steel Arceus and Nattorei. It also serves as a surprise crippler, as many would not expect an LO version to carry Thunder Wave. Earthquake OHKOes Steel Arceus like he's made of tissue, while an LO Fire Punch boosted by the sun seals Nattorei's fate. Dragon Claw is there to hit the Levitating/Flying Dragon-types that escape my powerful Earthquake. The Special Defense EVs are there to help take unboosted Draco meteors from the likes of Giratina-O much better. There isn't really much I have to say about Groudon, other than it gets the job done but not much else.

    Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature(+Spd, -SAtk)

    - Bolt Strike
    - Dragon Claw
    - Outrage
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Zekrom is my more bulky and powerful revenge killer, mopping up Mewtwo and Kyogre and such. It also prevents both Lugia and Ho-Oh from beating me as easily as when I had Mewtwo in this spot. The set is pretty much standard, with Bolt Strike and Outrage being the obvious STAB choices. Dragon Claw is for when its damage is sufficient to kill what I need it to, and for when being locked into Outrage is improper. Hidden Power Fire looks horribly out of place, but honestly, what else can it run? It's only purpose is to beat Ferrothorn. Since Dragon/Electric is more than enough coverage, I instead need something that can hit Zekrom's #1 enemy. With HP Fire, I can 3HKO outside of rain, while being untouchable outside of Leech Seed or Toxic and Protect.

    Threat List​

    Black = Normal, Orange = Threatening, Red = Danger. Stolen from other RMT's since it's a really good threatlist format. Any set or Pokemon not listed here, I have never played against.

    Arceus: God doesn't worry me too much.

    Show Hide
    Swords Dance variants:
    Extremekiller: Groudon can take ExtremeSpeeds pretty well and put it in range of Deoxys-A's own priority. Zekrom isn't OHKOed at +2 and can do the same thing as Groudon. Ghost-Arceus wins if I have a CM or two.
    Ghost: Without a STAB, Silk Scarf boosted ExtremeSpeed, I don't care about this thing. Groudon does a good job walling it, Zekrom revenges.

    Calm Mind variants:

    Grass: This thing can give me problems if Shaymin-S isn't there to flinch it to death. Kills off both Kyogre and Groudon, as well as threatening the rest of my team pretty badly. If it's paired with Ho-oh, I'm in for a tough fight.
    Ghost: If my Ghost Arceus has even 1 CM under it's belt, I pretty much win. Otherwise, Deoxys-A smashes it with a Psycho Boost if it tries to revenge me.

    Steel: Groudon eats these things for dinner if it doesn't pack Will-o-Wisp. Even if it does, Kyogre can wear it down with rain boosted Hydro Pumps.

    Darkrai: Dark Void sucks, but with Stone Edge's famous accuracy, I laugh when it does miss.

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    NP: Shaymin-S flinches these to death easily, and if I get slept, then I just switch in Zekrom on the NP/Dark Pulse, since I'm 3HKOed by it without an LO at +0 and I just kill it off.
    Trick: Go ahead, Trick my Shaymin-S a Scarf. See if I care.

    Deoxys-A: This thing hits like a truck.

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    Focus Sash: If Shaymin-S is alive, then I have little trouble. If it's not, then something on my team dies. Total bummer that my own Deo-A can't try for a speed tie. Arceus walls any variant not running Shadow Ball, but it can't switch in.
    Life Orb: Shaymin-S kills it so easily.
    Choiced: Ouch. Depending on how it comes in, I either have a monster on my hands or a joke. Shaymin-S blows it away, and Kyogre walls it without Thunder.

    Dialga: One of the worst lead matchups for Shaymin-S, but otherwise not too bad.

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    Special Choice: If it's Specs, I sac something and start setting up CM's in it's face with Arceus. If it Scarfed, Groudon lives through a DM and OHKOes.
    Physical Choice: Groudon walls it.
    Bulk Up: Groudon still walls it.

    Giratina-A: Physical bulk doesn't help much against my mainly special attacking team.

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    Wall: It can not touch Ghost-Arceus outside of Toxic, which it usually has no room for with Will-o-Wisp being the usually better choice.
    Calm Mind RestTalk: My own Ghost-type CMer just boosts alongside it and wins eventually.

    Giratina-O: Floaters are annoying.

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    Mixed: Outside of being Deoxys-A's worst nightmare, it can't do much. Arceus takes 40% from Shadow Sneak, and can set up with help from Recover.

    Groudon: The lumbering beast gets eaten alive by Shaymin-S.

    Show Hide
    Support: Besides stalling out my Groudon, it can't do much besides set up rocks. Shaymin-S kills it.
    Rock Polish: Shaymin-S outspeeds it if it's Adamant, and KOes with Seed Flare.
    Paradancer: I haven't seen any other Groudon use Thunder Wave in a while, but just as long as it doesn't use it on Shaymin-S, Deoxys-A, or Arceus, I don't mind it.

    Ho-Oh: Gross.

    Show Hide

    SubRoost: Yuck. If it subs up on Thunder Wave from Groudon or just switches in on Shaymin-S in general, I'm in for some hurt.
    Flame Charge: Not as threatening with Zekrom around.
    Choice Scarf: Zekrom can at worst speed tie it as it uses its NVE moves against me.
    Toxic Staller: Basically, any Ho-Oh set meant to stall gives me issues. While it isn't as powerful, it can now reliably harm Zekrom, who is normally my best Ho-Oh check.

    Kyogre: King of Ubers for good reason.

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    Choice: I almost always end up sacrificing something to kill this thing, Scarfed or Specs'd. Zekrom is my best check, but doesn't like Specs Water Spouts.
    Mono-attacking Calm Minder: Zekrom. Any Kyogre that isn't physically defensive or Timid Scarfed gets wrecked by Zekrom.


    Show Hide
    Great Wall: This thing just doesn't die. Ever. A bit better now that I have Zekrom on the team, but I can't do anything if it has Reflect up. Deoxys-A's Ice Beam does around 65-70%, but it dies to Dragon Tail. Overall, if Zekrom is down, and Deoxys-A can't OHKO it, I've lost.
    Calm Mind: Arceus sets up along side of it if it lacks Whirlwind. If it has Whirlwind, then I can Toxic it with Kyogre. Easier to deal with than the walling set, but still hard.

    Manaphy: This water pixie is hard-pressed to set up against my strong offense.

    Show Hide
    Tail Glow: Zekrom. If it has a Wacan Berry, then it is just delaying it's death. If it has a Tail Glow and a Wacan Berry and Ice Beam, then Zekrom dies and Kyogre kills it.
    Calm Mind: Zekrom.

    Mewtwo: Gunning for you, and all mankind, I've lost my mind...

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    Psycho Killer: Arceus OHKOes it without any CMs on either Pokemon.
    Stall: Arceus again.

    Palkia: My Thunders never paralyze this thing.

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    Choice Scarf/Specially Based Mixed: Groudon can take a hit and paralyze it.
    Choice Specs: I can't wall it, but I can revenge it with Zekrom or set up on a -2 Palkia with Arceus.

    Rayquaza: I tend to forget about the speed boost Dragon Dance gives.

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    Dragon Dance: Shaymin-S OHKOes with HP Ice.
    Swords Dance: Same as above, except the ExtremeSpeed OHKOes me first at +2 and SR damage. If it has no boosts, then I OHKO it. If it does, I lure the Outrage, and then revenge with Zekrom.
    Mixed: If it has a Focus Sash, then something on my team dies. If it doesn't then Shaymin-S kills it.

    Reshiram: The most well-endowed Pokemon in the game.

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    Choice: The Specs set is pretty much beat by Kyogre. The Scarf set is too.
    Flame Charge: Kyogre again.

    Zekrom: Thunderbutt

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    Choice: Most that I've seen run Adamant, so I get the one-up on them with Jolly Zekrom. Scarf Zekrom only does around 40% to Arceus with Outrage, so I just set up on it while it's confused.
    Mixed: No difference, except it's either weaker or slower than usual. Maybe both.


    Chansey: I don't like this thing.

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    Standard: Walls a good portion of my team, but Deoxys-A pulverizes it. Zekrom and Groudon can too in a pinch, with the added bonus of both of them destroying Skarmory. An annoying end to my Arceus's sweeps. Even worse when paired up with Lugia.

    Deoxys-S: It can't beat my hedgehog in a race.

    Show Hide
    Standard Lead: Shaymin-S flinches it to death easily.
    Mixed attacker: Too weak. Use Deoxys-A for that.

    Excadrill: With two hostile weathers on my team, this thing slows to a halt.

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    SD: Groudon doesn't care about it, stealing the weather and not minding Balloons.

    Ferrothorn: The king of OU still performs well in Ubers.

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    Standard: Deoxys-A mangles it, Arceus too after 2 CMs. If it's weakened, HP Fire on Zekrom kills it, especially with Groudon's sun. It's still annoying how it walls the rest of my team though.
    CB: Same as above, only Zekrom walls it even harder.

    Forretress: Might as well change its name to Ferrothorn Lite.

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    Standard: Groudon kills this thing so easily.

    Heatran: If you have a Kyogre on your team and you have trouble with this, you're doing something wrong.

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    Stallbreaker: Can't touch Kyogre outside of Toxic while I wash it away.
    Choice: Kyogre walls it to no end.

    Garchomp: There's no sand for him to play in here.

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    Scarf: It can't OHKO Kyogre at full health, nor can it evade my super fast grass dog.
    CB: Same thing as above, though it might be able to kill Kyogre with a bit of residual damage. Zekrom can now revenge it too.
    SD: Zekrom walks all over it. Shaymin-S too.
    Sub/SD: I have two weather changers on the team that can murder it. No sand hax here.

    Jirachi: Not as annoying as in OU.

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    Wish: Kyogre 2HKOes, Groudon OHKOes, Zekrom 2HKOes.
    Scarf: Shaymin-S doesn't care about flinches as I 2HKO it with Earth Power. Groudon can take it all day. Zekrom resists Iron Head, along with Kyogre.
    Sub-Paraflinch: If it has Thunder Wave, then Groudon walls it. If it has Body Slam, Arceus walls it. If it has both, then that's ridiculous.

    Kingdra: It sucks.

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    Dragon Dance: Overrated. Can't get past Groudon, especially in the sun.
    Special Attacker: Also overrated. I don't care what it did in OU, there's no way that something with base 95 Special Attack is getting past Kyogre.

    Hydreigon: This isn't too good either IMO.

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    Scarf: Darkrai does everything this does better, but with no Dragon-type STAB.

    Scizor: Annoying priority, but I don't mind it outside of that.

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    CB: Groudon takes hits easily and fries it.
    Specially Defensive: All that Special Defense doesn't work on Fire Punch.
    SD: Groudon again.

    Skarmory: It's best gift in Gen 5 with Sturdy no longer matters.

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    Spiker: Zekrom loves his TeraVolt ability to fry these things before they set up even one layer of Spikes.

    Terrakion: Powerful, but it can't do everything at once unfortunately.

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    Scarf: If it's locked into EQ/CC, then Shaymin-S kills it. If it's locked into Stone Edge, then Groudon walls it.
    CB: Same deal as above, only now Zekrom doesn't fear it.
    RP/SD: Still can't touch Groudon, unless it has a Balloon and an SD and a Rock Polish, under which circumstances I lose.

    Tyranitar: Both of my weather abusers and most of my team kill this thing easy.

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    Tank: Deoxys-A takes a dump on it.
    CB: ^
    Scarf: ^
    Dragon Dance: ^

    Metagross: Not as good as it is in OU.

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    Choice: Groudon.
    AgiliGross: Groudon.
    Dual Screens: Still Groudon.
    Lead: Crowdon.

    Kabutops: Just as bad as Kingdra.

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    SD: Groudon removes the Rain and takes anything it can throw at me easily.
    CB: See above.

    Shedinja: Besides Deoxys-A, everything on my team has a move to hit it with.

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    Standard: Someone used this to try and wall my Kyogre once. Cue ragequit as I Toxic it.

    Gliscor: It's somewhat annoying, but if I play right, I shouldn't lose to this thing.

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    Sub+Protect Staller In an early version of this team, this actually gave me trouble. Now that I have improved it and myself so much, I just laugh at it now.


    Hyper (and Nuclear) offense is the style of play that has suited me since I first picked up a Pokemon game (to the point where, as a child, I believed that all non-damaging moves were completely useless). As such, I have created this team to stand above all other offensive teams and to continue my tradition of recruiting the best heavy hitters.
  2. comatthew6

    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 7, 2010
    seems like a solid team, bro. Shaymin-S is a great anti-lead at this point, but Darkrai can do just about the same and can beat Lugia one-on-one. So, I recommend a Choice Scarf Darkrai lead.

    Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dark Void
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast / Nasty Plot
    - Trick

    It can stop Deoxys cold in its tracks with Scarf Trick / Dark Void and can trick Lugia later in the game. I recommend Focus Blast (or even Thunder) over Nasty Plot but +2 Darkrai is scary. Hope this helps!
  3. Eos

    Eos i play maylay
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Jan 17, 2011
    I'm not too used to ubers, but seeing as the core is pretty good and the sets are appropriate with the current meta its a good team lol. You should watch out for the choiced sets though, seeing as those can really screw you over. As well as most of your pokes running LO over lefties, and the lack of recovery moves except on two of them.
    Otherwise, good team.
    Oh, also, test that Darkrai team from matt above seeing as a good chunk of pokes never will like the scarf aspect.
  4. Ryner


    May 4, 2010
    I just noticed, you could use this team for 4th gen too lol
  5. Server_Crash


    Apr 1, 2010
    Except that Arceus could only have 100 EVs in a given stat in 4th gen.

    Anyway, this is a solid team, but I have a few suggestions:
    I am not too sure about you having two CM'ers on your team; both sets are great, but I would suggest replacing Arceus's set with a SD variant like this:

    Arceus @ Spooky Plate
    Jolly Nature
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Speed
    ~Swords Dance
    ~Shadow Force

    Unless your opponent has both a normal-type and a ghost-type alive when this thing sets up, you're going to be in a good place. You really only need to worry about a Giratina+Blissey/Chansey combo, but over half of your team can deal with both of them, so that's not a problem.

    Your Kyogre is too offensive to make good use of roar, so I would give it roar. To compensate for losing your only way to phaze, switch fire punch to roar on Groudon. Fire is not the best attacking type in Ubers, and fire punch is a very weak move.
  6. Celestavian

    Celestavian Let the fire consume me, let the courage flow through me
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion

    May 23, 2010
    For the Arceus set, I did indeed try out physical Ghost Arceus, but Groudon could stop me cold. My two CM'ers are also different, in that Mewtwo is a "physical" Calm Minder, since Psycho Break hits the opponent's defense. I don't want both my boosting sweepers to be walled by the same Pokemon, even if I have plenty to beat Groudon.

    For Kyogre, I'm pretty sure there's a typo in here somewhere. It's too offensive for Roar, so you would give it Roar?

    Groudon has Fire Punch for Nattorei, who otherwise can just Leech Seed me on the Earthquake and either switch to a Levitator or just pound away with Power Whip. Not only that, Nattorei is an Uber stall staple, since it takes the Dragon-type moves flung around the tier like nothing, and so a surprise Fire Punch to pop it for an OHKO would really help. Even so, I'll try it, just as soon as you tell me what to put on Kyogre. :P
  7. polop

    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 29, 2011
    Your teams just asking for stealth rock support, it would help that specs deoxys-a of yous increase the chances of ohkoing mewtwo and... Other things. To get I recommend replacing dragon claw with stealth rock on groudon. Also in order to help with ur lugia problem why not change ur mewtwo set into taunt calm mind mewtwo with aurasphere and ice beam. U turn lugia and chansey into set up bait with it and somewhat help with ur stall problem.

    But other then that great team :D
  8. snowcone


    Sep 18, 2010
    If stall is a problem you could replace Ghost Arceus with a calm minding Dark one.

    Arceus@dread plate
    252hp/4 S.atk/ 252speed
    Calm Mind
    Dark Pulse / Judgement

    With refresh it means you can't be slowly worn down by toxic or burn and are free to set up in front of them, and dark pulse has no immunities in the uber tier so you have no need for a coverage move.

    Also really like the idea of Specs Deoxy A.
  9. Vratix


    Apr 23, 2010
    I agree with his idea of Darkrai over Shaymin-S.
    I am running a similar scarf-Darkrai lead to this but with Ice Beam for coverage instead of Focus Blast/Nasty Plot and Modest Nature over Timid for a bit more Oomph.

    Additionally, Darkrai has a fairly similar chance to keep Deoxys-S from setting up any hazards (I know the percent chance seems a great deal lower but I have tried Skymin in the same slot and I greatly prefer Darkrai) especially since many Deo-S will either magic coat or taunt against darkrai predicting the Dark Void.
    Plus, the added benefit of outspeeding and OHKOing those pesky Mewtwos when they stay in assuming they will out-speed you.
  10. XxBlazePWBTxX


    Oct 19, 2009
    Hi, I just have time for a very quick rate here; sorry.

    Overall, this is an excellent team and I tested it a bit. I had never played 5th Gen Ubers and found this team incredibly easy to use in many ways. On my first attempt, I was able to reach around #20 with ease.

    Saying that, there's not much that needs to be done with this team. However, I did change stuff around a bit which helped me significantly.

    Firstly, I got rid of Choice Specs on Deoxys-A and gave it a Life Orb. I haven't looked back since. In my opinion, it is the better option. You may say that your Psycho Boost and Ice Beam are underpowered; but really, Psycho Boost KO's everything it needs to anyway without the Specs (unresisted of course).

    Psycho Boost reaches 210BP with STAB and coming off 400+ SpAtt, it severely dents anything, whether they resist it or not. However, the main gain from using Life Orb is the ability to change moves; this is crucial. It has helped me so much to use Psycho Boost and then switch up to SuperPower or Extremespeed on the physical side to finish off a second target.

    Moreover, the power of Superpower and ExtremeSpeed is boosted by 30%, whereas it had no boost whatsoever with Specs. This allows you to hit ExtremeKiller Arceus for around 30-35% and SuperPower has enough power to OHKO Nattorei, Dialga and the like. But in general, although you are losing out on the power of Ice Beam and Psycho Boost, the ability to change moves is too good to pass, and thus I recommend you alter it.

    By the way, I did take around 32EV's from SpAtt and place them into Attack for that slightly extra oomph; if you wanted to know.

    Otherwise I can't fault it.


    - Stealth Rock on Groudon and give Kyogre Thunder Wave over Roar? Stall wasn't a problem for me when I used this team; though perhaps that was just my playstyle? <_<

    - Shaymin-S' nature? I tested Modest Scarf Skymin out, and although it had a LOT more power, the ability to tie with other Scarfers at that 394 speed such as Mewtwo and Darkrai or just beat the standard +Spe varients (as well as Deoxys-S) is definitely too much of a bonus to pass up. So I'd say it's fine at the moment. You may want to give it a go for a couple of battles? Just a suggestion.

    Anyway, that is all I have to say.

    Great Team.

    Hope to hear from you soon.

    Blaze :D
  11. Celestavian

    Celestavian Let the fire consume me, let the courage flow through me
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion

    May 23, 2010
    Sup man.

    Sorry I haven't gotten back to you. I feel obligated to post because, well, you really helped a lot.

    I certainly agree that the LO set is superior, and with it, I am much more capable of breaking down the stall teams that I hate so much.

    For Kyogre, I gave it a Specially Defensive set and replaced Roar with Toxic. With it, Choice Scarf Palkia only 3HKOs me with Thunder, and I'm not helpless against Lugia. On the other hand, Groudon's Thunder Wave is, imo, invaluable, and while I'd love to add SR to it's moveset, I don't really want to sacrifice the speed drop and paraflinch combo with Shaymin-S that T-Wave gives me.

    Speaking of Shaymin-S, it only outspeeds RP Groudon with Timid, so I'd like to keep that so I'm not destroyed by it. Also, the Smogon set for Scarf Skymin, IIRC, recommends Modest, and with Timid, I outspeed them.

    Thanks a lot for the rate! It helped me a lot.
  12. Mr_br_kill


    Jun 7, 2010
    This is sort of a bump, but I noticed that even though your team is hyper offense, you have no forme of hazards what so ever. Granted, I'm not recommending that you run full stall, but at least trading stealth rock for fire punch on groundon. I also run a very offensive style, and I have found that 12.5% damage can make or break a sweep. It also makes lugia much easier to deal with. You even already have a spin blocker in Arceus-ghost
  13. Clinton2637


    Jul 7, 2011
    If Calm Mind Lugia is such a threat to you, you could replace one of your pokemon with Zekrom. It is up to you which pokemon you get rid of, just counter your problem.
  14. Celestavian

    Celestavian Let the fire consume me, let the courage flow through me
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion

    May 23, 2010
    I'd appreciate Stealth Rock, definitely, but I have nowhere to put it. Groudon has perfect neutral coverage and without Fire Punch, I lose my only Fire-type attack on the team. Without Dragon Claw, Giratina-O walls me, along with Rayquaza.

    Also, what kind of Zekrom should I try out? It sounds perfect, but I don't know which set to use. I tried a retarded Hone Claws set over Mewtwo, but I don't know if Scarf might be more effective.
  15. fatsnorlax


    Jun 18, 2011
    Scarf would probably be better than Hone Claws.
  16. Celestavian

    Celestavian Let the fire consume me, let the courage flow through me
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion

    May 23, 2010
    Yeah, I found that out pretty quick. Updated the OP with every change I've made since the last edit. Zekrom is over Mewtwo since I already have a CM+Recover user that's a lot more useful. I was also tired of the three Ghost and Dark weaknesses.

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