ORAS OU Numa Numa (a dual-core team)

So after no real success with my last team I was hanging around on the Competitive Tutoring chat on Showdown. I love that place! It's always fun to go to and it's always good helping someone out and learning stuff yourself. I've not been laddering with this team because I'm taking a break from laddering, I just can't be assed, so instead I've been trying it out with some guys on there and to see how it goes and generally improve my playing. Anyway, this is a dual-core team inspired by my hatred for Landorus-T. I noticed there was a positive correlation between well-received RMTs and RMTs named after songs, so I decided to name this team after Numa Numa because I fucking can. Enjoy.
I wanted to build a team with something to absolutely fuck Lando-T. That thing is, if I recall, the most used pestilence of the whole OU tier, so not preparing for it is basically suicide.

I had three things in mind: Scarf Kyurem Black, Scarf Heatran, and Banded T-Tar. Kyurem obviously has STAB Ice Beam as well as generally superb coverage. Heatran and T-Tar look like Lando bait but my old Banded T-Tar from X/Y ran a spread that could tank an EQ from Excadrill, Chomp, Lando, etc, and allow him to OHKO them in return (even at -1 atk, Ice Punch is a guaranteed OHKO on Scarfed Lando), and Heatran is guaranteed Lando-bait, allowing him to OHKO obvious switches with HP Ice.


I came to the conclusion of Scarfed Heatran and haven't looked back. Heatran is great in the meta and Scarfed is a pretty damn potent set even outside of neutering Landos. I chose him over Kyurem because Kyurem lacked any sense of subtlety, who's going to leave a Lando in when I send out a Kyurem? Not Scarfed at all... And I chose him over T-Tar because I really found him easier to build a team around


I do typically like basing my teams around my Mega, and my Mega is usually my set-up sweeper. So I thought through what Heatran could work well with and came to Altaria. Heatran is both the Fairy guardian and slayer, so it was only natural that I'd pin him with a Fairy of his own. I chose Altaria because I've been frequently trying to shoe-horn her onto my old teams as a replacement where it hasn't worked well, so starting a new team could be more effective.


Who didn't see this one coming? Rotom-W is pretty much a staple for all or most of my teams. He's a great pair with Heatran given how they eat eachothers' weaknesses (aside from Fighting, which Altaria takes like a pro). Rotom is also a good check for Lando and a fantastic physical wall in general, defensive pivot, anti-birdspam machine. Just a must-have.


I was two thirds done with my Fire/Water/Grass core, so I needed the last addition. I chose Celebi because it's not Ferrothorn, pretty much. She takes Fighting hits pretty well and shuts down Breloom leads which make me want to tie my nutsack to a brick and throw it out a window. I hate Breloom. So much. She's also a good cleric, it's pretty much GG if Heatran gets paralysed.


So looking at my team, I needed a Rock Setter, and a Defogger, both ideally offensive since I already had my defensive pair down. Taking things back to a time before time when it was only Altaria and Heatran I was thinking of going with a F/D/S core with Heatran and Altaria and another Dragon or Fairy before I ran to Rotom like I usually do. Still, I kept the idea in mind and thought back to an old team I used in X/Y and thought of the perfect pair for the second core. This started with Garchomp to be my lead.


The second was Scizor. He had the means to complete my second core, give me Defog support, and provide me with the priority this team majorly needed. He functions as part of a decent Volt-Turn core with Rotom too that ties the whole team together. This team is just cores galore.


Trying it out, Mega Altaria was way too passive. I could just never use her effectively, she seemed to require too much setting up to be potent, at which point anything could happen, an unfortunate crit, some hax, whatever, she was just not quite doing it. So I looked for another Fairy and found Mega Diancie. All she needed was one RP and then people were on their knees. Quick and simple set-up. Nice.


You thought this long, boring section was done? You thought wrong. This team could not handle stall. My usual answer to stall is wedge Thundurus somewhere however you can, but that wouldn't work here. Thundy, I love you, but this is one situation where you just don't have enough synergy with this group. I didn't know who to replace, so I opted to not replace anyone, technically. Instead, depending on where you are on ladder, you could switch between the set-up sweepage of Diancie, or the Taunting wall-breaking monstrosity of Gardevoir. If you're not ladering like me then just stick with Diancie and pray your opponent doesn't have a Chansey, I guess.


Yay!

So after trying various combinations with different mons, primarily replacing Celebi for a Bisharp check like Chesnaught or Breloom or another supportive mon like Whimsicott, nothing was really making a vast improvement. Anyway, yesterday (or technically the day before since it's gone 2am because I spent three fucking hours editing this since my browser decided the perfect time to crash was just before posting while I was proof-reading) I was working on building a different team with another member, and while it wasn't very fruitful it got me in the team-building mood. I wanted to work with Mega Diancie so I looked to Mertyville's Mega Latias & the Dark Checks and worked along that similar principal to create Mega Diancie & the Steel Checks. The conclusion was... Almost exactly the same team. BUT! It did solve a lot of my problems by adding a change I hadn't seriously considered before.


Boom! Mega Diancie! That's my story and I'm sticking to it. None of this two Megas crap, I'm going all-out with the new Fairy chick on the block. Just my Mega Diancie, the diamond in the rough. Nothing more, nothing less.


So on the topic of Steel Checks, Keldeo is pretty much one of the best things Diancie can ever be paired with. She handles Heatran, Bisharp, Landorus T and I, Kyurem, lots of threats Mega Diancie doesn't really like the company of. It's a big chunk of problems out of the way. Also, Scarfed Keldeo is pretty much the bane of many a Hyper Offence team, or team in general, you'd definitely rather have one with you than against you.


Heatran could get rid of those other threats Keldeo couldn't as effectively, shit like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Fairies as well as dealt with the Birdspam Keldeo hated without forcing Diancie out too early. Keldeo and Heatran just blitz through threats Mega Diancie doesn't like with more efficiency than the Germans.


Celebi is back to complete the F/W/G core again. I considered Whimsi for the Taunt and Memento support I wanted, but Nasty Pass is so much better... It lets Keldeo and Heatran punch much harder holes as well as give Diancie an offensive buff when cleaning up. Aside from that, Celebi picks up where Heatran and Keldeo left off and helps clear the field of bulky Waters like Mega Slowbro and Rotom-W.


You know what comes next. I needed a lead, F/D/S core, looking back to old team, Garchomp OP. And that's exactly how it happened. Garchomp is a great fit with completing my second core, as well as adding EQ support for more Steel killing and for Tentacruel who Celebi couldn't really work with.


I needed a Steel type Defogger with priority. Scizor is a Steel type Defogger with priority. Therefore, I needed Scizor. Alright, I didn't need a Defogger per se, but Sticky Web is GG and I'd rather keep Chomp's Sash for Greninja. I considered other combinations for my last two mons like Latios and Ferro, but that just brought me a bigger Mega Beedrill and Mega Sableye weakness as well as throwing off my physical and special offensive balance I get with this combination.


YAY!


I found with this team that it had the same problem as the first team I ever posted in this forum (if you want to dig that fossil up): It gets boned by EQ users. Namely Volt-Turn cores with Lando-T and Rotom W. Neither of my answers to Lando can do a thing with Rotom there, I can't HP Ice it since I end up baiting out the Rotom over the Lando, and I can't switch Celebi in to it since it will just Volt Switch out and I'd be forced out by the Lando U-Turn threat again, which is pretty terrible, Celebi does get worn down after a while of that, and while either of those fucks are there I could not send out Diancie, I've found a few games where I just have to save her till the end to be picked off after having done nothing but wait patiently for her time to shine which never came. Long story short, I replaced Chomp with Lando. Lando gave me the U-Turn switch initiative I wanted but wasn't willing to sacrifice Knock Off support for on Scizor. He still held my EQ support, he had a nifty solution to Rotoms on occasion to take the pressure off Celebi, he had Rocks, and I wasn't using Garchomp very well. His SD suicide Outrage spam could be helpful at times, but with many teams having Fairies and Levitaters and Flying types I could never really maintain it for very long before something else like Latios or Azu switched in and wasted him. Lando brought a good bit with him to help.


There were two issues with the team now: It gets shut down by a Rotom-W that gets a safe switch in, and it was no longer dual-core and the structure was lost. I decided to cheat with the dual core element and turn it from a F/W/G + F/D/S core team to a F/W/G + F-D/S (+ Lando) core. I brought back my girl the Mighty Puff, and she's been very happy. The Water weakness was no longer so severe and it balanced out my physical and specially offensive power. The prowess of Nasty Pass support has not been wasted by this change at all, I never actually found myself passing to Diancie before since she only came out late-game when any threats or walls that she would ever possibly need the support for were gone, the Nasty Passes always went to my Scarfers to help them pick things off.


YAY!


Doge (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Smack Down
- Stealth Rock
Landorus T, the most used pestilence of the OU tier. I'm not a hipster, but this thing is so common that if I ever bloody saw one again I thought I might hold Gamefreak up and knife-point till they scrapped him. Honestly though, I've not seen him around much, and he provided this team with too much extra support to pass up. Long long ago in the humble beginnings of this team, there was a Rotom who was immune to EQs and had Volt Switch to give me initiative. Those days were long lost in my battle for dominance over Bisharp, but now I was getting boned by Sand Rush Excas and Volt-Turn cores of Lando and Rotom. A Lando of my own helped a lot. He's an offensive lead set, and I mean to keep him as such with how helpful defensive Scizor is and how well this thing performs. EQ is reliable STAB, no team should not have EQ, ever. U-Turn gives me much better switch initiative than Celebi's BP since I don't really send her out for that, I send her out to handle Waters and when I think she can set up. Smack Down catches Rotoms on the switch and lets me get the KO on them with EQ next turn. It is very handy and I'm liking it a lot, much more helpful than Stone Edge honestly with how well it stops certain counters from being counters anymore. Rocks are Rocks, you already know. The EV spread is standard enough, odd HP, max attack Adamant for damage, the remaining 8 go to speed to let me get the creep on standard 44 speed Rotom W ensuring I get the KO next turn with EQ instead of getting Burned or Hydroed first.

20% Cooler (Keldeo-Resolute) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Have fear, Keldeo is here. Through thorough analysis I discovered that no Mega Fairy team could really afford not to have one of these. It clears so many threats and picks off a good chunk of the problems I had before, namely Bisharp, Lando I and Kyurem. I know I'll get ragged on for running two Scarfers but two Choice users is really not unviable or even uncommon, and I have Nasty Pass support, a +2 Scarfed Keldeo definitely gives me the shivers; it seems more pointless running Specs or Expert Belt when I have the means to pass off an extra boost and do some pretty hefty damage without a boost too. Yeah, dual Scarf, it had to happen. Standard moveset, Hydro Pump for heavy-hitting STAB, Secret Sword because I'm sick of Bisharp's shit, Icy Wind for Landos, Lati@s and Garchomp, and HP Electric for the bulky Waters Celebi can't handle as well.


Furnace (Heatran) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Ancient Power
Good God, I cannot commend this thing enough! He's so good it's not even funny. Pretty standard as far as Heatrans go, barring HP Ice which I don't think is all that common. Fire Blast is very powerful STAB, Flash Cannon is Fairy-removal STAB, HP Ice neuters Landos and Garchomps and the like on the switch, I was running Earth Power for other Heatrans, but now that I have Keldeo I already had a good answer to them, so instead I have Ancient Power to patch up the birdspam weakness Keldeo brought with her. If anyone questions the effectiveness of HP Ice Heatran, I can vouch that it is very good. Heatran by nature is Landorus bait, a Lando sees a Heatran on the field and it just becomes mesmerised. This thing is like one of those pies from an old cartoon that's left in a window and the smell turns into beckoning fingers that make the main character float off their feet and drift towards it in a daze. That's pretty much the effect Heatran has on Lando, so when the switch is obvious, you kill the fucker with HP Ice. Works like a charm from my experience. I still have HP Ice because it is the most reliable way to neuter Lando; Keldeo can handle them too, but what person stays in on a Keldeo with Lando unless they're 110% certain it's Specs or Expert Belt? They can just switch out and hold it over my head the whole game. No, HP Ice > Earth Power.​


Salad (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Baton Pass
- Nast Plot
- Recover
She was a team cleric, but not anymore. I ran clericless in the days with Diancie and thank God I changed this team up before running into my first stall team because status spam is unpleasant. Nasty Plot was a good answer to Mega Slowbro with this set, with the EV spread taking one +2 Ice Beam and two +1 Ice beams from Mega Slowbro and being able to put a lot of pressure on it with setting up offences at a faster rate; with that, I had no other answer for Slowbro so running her as a cleric would mean GG on sight of one of those goofy pricks. Pretty simple moveset overall, Giga Drain as an attack, Baton Pass for passing Nasties and escaping Pursuit, and Recover to not die.


Arts n Craft (Scizor) (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Atk / 162 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog
Back to the core No2. This is Scizor and he Defogs shit. I was running some weird set with him before but his spread underwent a lot of changes. Initially he had a bulky SD EV spread in order to come to a good mid-ground between offence and defence since I already had a defensive pair. When Rotom fled the scene though, I was out of a physically defensive mon, Scizor was the prime candidate to run as my new physical tank, I made him Impish but the EVs stuck. Finally, it took a while, but we got there; standard defensive Scizor, no need to pull random EV spreads out of my ass, he's a fully physical tank and that's all she wrote. ...Ok, maybe not, now he has 68 Atk EVs to get the OHKO on non-HP invested Mega Diancie after Rocks, can't be too standard now can I? Again, standard moveset, I can often bluff the Band to force switches and get free Defogs off easily. Shed Shell because Magnezone is a thing. I did run U-Turn over Knock Off to form a Volt-Turn core with Rotom, but I removed it after Rotom left to add in some Knock Off support for Chanseys and Choice users and whatnot; it was the right decision, Knock Off support is fantastic and I am not dropping it. That's pretty much it for him.

Mighty Puff (Altaria) (F) @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 64 HP / 192 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heal Bell
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return
Mega Altaria has returned from her residence in the Old Members drop bar and makes a triumphant come-back indeed. Being my late-game sweeper and cleric as well as 2/3 of my F/D/S core in herself if you suspend logic for a while, she does well. It was a toss-up between Gardevoir or Alt who should return but I settled on Alt for her superior bulk and typing. I'm going with a more standard set this time rather than the Impish 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD set I ran before, this is the more favoured bulky(ish) DD set. Why am I not running EQ for Heatran? Heal Bell is very helpful, that's why. I really cannot run an Altaria without Heal Bell because it benefits the whole team in situations that would otherwise cripple me. EQ would be ridiculously helpful though and I regret not being able to run it, but 4 mss's best cure is to get your thumb out of your ass and pick four moves. Heal Bell. The rest are beyond standard and self-explanatory. I'm also very happy to finally run a Mega that didn't have to squat in the back and do nothing till very late game. Alt is very handy throughout the whole match as a cleric before she DDs all over the place.

Mr Washee (Rotom-Wash) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Rest
Rotom was great, and I never thought I'd replace him. He's the best defensive pivot in the game and walled Birdspam like nothing, so I replaced him for a second Scarfer that can't take a Brave Bird? It was only when re-building the team that I realised just how viable this switch-up was, Rotom is great, but Keldeo was much better suited.​


Lady Death (Gardevoir) (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
Gardevoir was an option to deal with stall depending on where you are on the ladder, I'm not laddering myself but I have heard high ladder is loaded with stall so Gardevoir could be a better option. Ideally though, you wouldn't rest the fate of a game on a coin-toss about preparing for an offensive or defensive team, it had to be solved within the limits of six Pokemon and no more.


Painkiller (Garchomp) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
My lead Garchomp replaced with the more popular S Ranker, Lando. I was short of, and desperately needed, a pivot and an EQ immunity. Lando offered both. Garchomp was also quite hit-and-miss in his capabilities to suicide depending on the opponent's team, if they still had both an EQ and an Outrage immunity on their team then it's safe to say only one mon at most will be biting the dust (unless they're low ladder and sac their team off to Outrage instead of sending out Azumaril...). He was good, very good, but Lando gave the team something more that was very much appreciated after Rotom's leave.


Mona Lisa (Diancie-Mega) @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
Diancie was my other Mega of choice. I ran Altaria, then Diancie/Gardevoir, then just Diancie and went back to Altaria... Diancie is a superb Mega and I cannot commend her enough, she plays fantastically and puts if fine work when played well. Sadly, in order to accommodate Lando who was very much needed I needed to remove one of my other two Water weaknesses, and Heatran was never going anywhere, it was a no-brainer. So ultimately she didn't work out as a permanent resident of this team (or maybe she'll be back in a future edit, who knows), but I really hope to use her again and highly advise that you guys give her a go too. Mega Diancie best waifu.​

Thanks to Alkov and Albacore for your suggestions, and to any future recommendations.
Thanks to HydrADE for that team-building collab, even if it was less than fruitful in the end. I really hope we can work one something else soon, ideally something successful. Cheers, mate. :]
Thanks to mertyville because I might as well go all-out with the tagging. Your Mega Latias team was damn good and it really helped me with the structure of this bunch. I hope it turned out as well as yours.
Thanks to the Competitive Tutoring room on PS! It's always good fun going there and I learn a lot. If you need any help, drop by and we'd be happy. Special thanks to AM for accepting my battles even though they're wastes of time and you just sweep me with your weird shit every time. XD Still, I'd like to think I've at least improved a little from our sessions. Just a bit. Maybe. I'll beat you someday, damnit!
Thanks to Sparkl3y because you tagged me in your RMT so I guess I owe you. :P
Thanks to Der Twist for being the single most supreme being in the universe.


I can deal with this thing fine unless it's packing EQ or HP Ground. Heatran can handle it ok, but he needs at least a +2 boost to guarantee an OHKO after Rocks. With that comes the possibility of Celebi getting crited with a Sludge Bomb, missing my Fire Blast, getting low-rolled when Rocks aren't up, etc...


This team has nothing for Gengar. Gengar is probably the biggest troll against this whole team since I really can't do much to it. If it's not Scarfed then I could send in Heatran or Keldeo, but if it's Sub Disable then he can just watch me struggle myself to death. They're mean buggers and you have to play careful when they're around. Scarf Trick has to be the worst, but I'll get there later.


I've only just realised how annoying this thing is. It's really bloody annoying to wear down and it can have me squirming through a game. Best bet is probably getting a Nasty Pass up to Altaria or Heatran, which one is a 50/50 on how sure I am that it'll go for Knock Off or Will-O, and even then Altaria is pretty shaky with the Will-O + Taunt threat.


Scizor is something I've discovered that can do much more to me than I can to it. Banded Scizor, Mega Scizor, any offensive variant mainly has a lot of support to make my team quite unhappy. I have means to deal with it, but a well-played Scizor can pressure my team the whole game, especially when paired with a Rotom for Volt-Turn.

+

Mag on its own is fine. Lando, Chomp, etc on their own is fine. Together requires caution. I remember first time I tried this team I was facing a very reputable player and I was doing damn well (I'm convinced I would have won if I didn't misplay this stupidly). I had Heatran on the field and of course I had to go ahead and think myself very clever and HP Ice the in-coming Garchomp. Completely forgetting the Mag left on his team... It was an uphill battle from there. So yeah, as tempting as it may be to HP Ice a threat on the switch, it's not always the best option. Play safe, kids.

Trick

I fucking hate this! Trickers completely ruin the flow of the entire battle and it's so annoying having to play around them with the threat constantly on you. Nasty Passes are much more difficult, and Trick Rotom-W especially sucks because the only things I can send in to foil the Trick are things I'm weak to. Trick Rotom-W basically means no more Nasty Pass.

Trick Room

This doesn't piss me off as much because it's freaking Trick Room, it's not exactly on every team on the way and it requires a lot more preparation than it's really worth. Still, that does mean you're in for more abuse than a BDSM porn star if you come across a Trick Room team, with two Scarfers and an DDancer it's not a fun time.

So, if you were ever to come across the bane of this team besides a standard Trick Room team, it would look something like this:

While it's not nearly the instant lose button the last threat team was, you need to pro-play the shit out of my team to scrape by this. I can guarantee you that a battle with a similar spread as this would be the least fun you've had for a while.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-196976727

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198444871

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-199478496

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-199522670

-------------------------------------

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 64 HP / 192 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heal Bell
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Ancient Power

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Baton Pass
- Nasty Plot
- Recover

Scizor @ Shed Shell
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Atk / 162 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Smack Down
- Stealth Rock
 
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Alkov

plopping
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Very nice team you have there. :] as mentioned in your threat list that your team is very weak to a bisharp, try running a more defensive Scizor with superpower instead of u-turn to always OHKO it although losing out on u-turn will give you less momentum against other mons. Since you're running shed shell, you can always just hard switch out against a Magnezone since most is scarfed so u-turn won't be really useful in this situation. Also, a bulkier scizor lets you handle Kyurem-B which is another threat you stated as a superpower and BP will take it out most of the time unless it's running the uncommon HP fire.
Another point, you can probably try running toxic or even perish song on your celebi instead of heal bell to win mega slowbro most of the times unless it runs ice beam/fire blast and its already at +6 since your team is not really weak to status, having 2 immunity to toxic, 2 immunity to thunder wave, 1 immunity to wisp and lastly 1 natural cure mon.
That's all for me :]
 
I will definitely try the Scizor set, my current one is pretty experimental and I'm not sure how to work with it so I'm not at all reluctant to tweak him a bit. Do you have any particular EV spread in mind? 248 HP, 252 Atk might work, I could still leave him Adamant for harder hits, he can still take any attack from +2 Bisharp (well, Sucker Punch is a 25% chance to OHKO after Rocks) while maintaining some degree of offensive presence but maybe it would be more suitable to just play safe and go Impish. What do you recommend? Thanks for the feedback. :]
 

Alkov

plopping
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
You can try running 252HP 252DEF but still run adamant nature or you can tweak it in such a way that you have lesser defense but run an impish nature. With 252HP and def, you'll always live any hit from kyurem-b unless earthpower which has a chance to 2HKO from full if they are running 252+SpA kyurem-b, it also allows you to live a +2 LO sucker punch from bisharp from full. With only 4 investment and adamant nature, you'll still always ohko bisharp with superpower and a superpowre + bp has a really high chance of killing a kyurem-b. :]
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hey there, pretty neat team! First thing I would do is run Swords Dance over Stone Edge on Garchomp. Stone edge really doesn't hit much, I guess it OHKOs Thundurus but that's basically it. Swords Dance lets you put a lot of pressure on a few teams, especially Stall teams, so it's particularly handy if you're running Diancie as your mega. It also takes advantage of Jirachi to some extent, which is nice because it's one of Stall's only answers to Gardevoir.

You seem very weak to DD Charizard-X with Earthquake. It very easily sets up on Celebi and Mega-Scizor, and if Garchomp's sash is broken, it can't revenge kill it, and it can then sweep your whole team. Fortunately, most DD Charizard-X don't run Earthquake, but if you find one that does you're probably going to have trouble dealing with it. One option run Phys Def Landorus-T as you rock setter instead of Garchomp. However, this leaves you weaker to Charizard-Y who is also a big problem for your team. I guess you could run Latios or Latias as your defogger, this also gives you a nice check to Landorus-I. Unfortunately, this makes you a lot weaker to Bisharp which kinda destroys your team otherwise, so you might want to deal with it by adding a counter to it such as Keldeo or Cobalion somewhere else on your team. You could also run HP Fighting to lure Bisharp I guess but i's not that reliable. A much simpler way to fix this would be running Stone Edge over Flash Cannon on Heatran, this enables you to OHKO YZard. Flash Cannon seems the last useful of your moves since you can kinda deal with Clefable and MGarde with Scizor. You can also run Scarf Landorus-T if you manage to find another rock setter (Celebi can make for a decent rock setter actually). This lets you check both Zards and Gengar in one fell swoop One last way to make your team less weak to these two is to run Thunder Wave over Heal Bell or Baton Pass on Celebi, although you do lose out on the utility of Thunder Wave, you gain the ability to cripple Zard and Gengar switchins

One thing I would at least try out is Chesnaught over Celebi. Chesnaught acts as a physically bulky, much like Celebi, however unlike Celebi it counters all the troublesome Dark Types which are actually pretty hard for your team to handle. Specifically, it takes on Bisharp, MGyara, and Crawdaunt. You do lose out on a good Landorus-I switchin though, but in return you get to take U-Turns from Landorus-T without fear. This also removes your only good answer to MSlowbro so this might not be that good an idea : one again you need to move stuff around a bit to account for all the threats you can't cover anymore.

In all honestly, I don't think you really need a defogger on this team. You don't really seem weak to hazards, you employ a Sash lead so I don't know if you really want your own rocks removed most of the time, and Scizor would like the moveslot for something else. Running both Superpower and U-Turn on it lets you not only beat Bisharp and all the other Dark types I mentioned you were weak to, but also act as a pivot in general, so that could be nice.

Finally, if you're willing to drop Heal Bell on Celebi, Nasty Plot enables you to counter Mega-Slowbro by boosting fatser than it and then smacking it with +6 Giga Drain. You also get to do fun stuff like set up, pass to Heatran or Diancie and just destroy everything. If you want to keep Heal Bell and remove Baton Pass instead, Perish Song over could work too, but it has far less synergy with Baton Pass so you shouldn't really run that alongside it.


Painkiller (Garchomp) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock


Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Defog


Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 88 Spe (speed for adamant Bisharp)
Bold Nature
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Rock Slide / Knock Off
- Stealth Rock


Furnace (Heatran) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power


Onion (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Baton Pass / Thunder Wave / Perish Song / Stealth Rock
- Heal Bell / Nasty Plot
- Recover


Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Spikes


Arts n Craft (Scizor) (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Superpower

Hope this helps!
 
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Thanks a lot for your suggestions! I honestly never saw my Megazard Weakness. I guess I kept looking at it pre-setup and thought little of it since Diancie, Garchomp and Heatran seem to have it covered, but I am quite a bit of set-up bait... I did consider Lando and Latios during my review, but Lando sort of broke the synergy the team had that Garchomp really offered so I decided to pass. Latios I still wish I could run, for Memento if anything, but then I'd be landed with the situation of needing a Steel lead, and my two first thoughts, Ferro and Jirachi, also seemed to bring more than they solved.
I run Defog on Scizor mainly for Sticky Web above anything else, since a slow team is an unhappy team, but you're right in that I really do need something more for Bisharp. Bish is more common that Web so I suppose I should prioritise that (a broken Sash on Chomp would mean that Gren could abuse this bunch a bit more though).
On the topic of Bisharp, I have had Chenaught over Celebi suggested to me before so that really should be a sign that I should give that a go. Honestly though, I find Nasty Plot Celebi much more appealing so I think I'll give her a go beforehand. Not sure what to replace though, Heal Bell is important because Para on Heatran is a dead team, but I do have a Rest-O Chesto Rotom, a Magic Bouncer, a Natural Curer, and general type immunity, so risk vs reward... +2 Scarfed Heatran or Mega Diancie/Gardevoir sounds so tempting and it really would give this bunch more offensive presence, especially if I'm running Super Power Scizor (since he'd need to be defensive to take a +2 Sucker Punch from Bisharp).
SD on Chomp I'm jumping on no questions asked though, I'm not sure how I completely overlooked that, but it would work so well on him; a +2 semi-suicide Outraging Chomp would definitely punch major holes that would help very well so thanks a lot for that. I might give Stone Edge Heatran a go too, but Flash Cannon is quite helpful for actually fighting back against Fairies rather than just walling them, so that's also something I'll test, but not with the most certainty.
Damn, that's quite the nice overhaul. Thank you very much for the input! Much appreciated, man. :]
 
Did you read the team building process? It depends what's most needed depending on where you are on the ladder and/or how well you know your opponent if you're not laddering. Gardevoir is for more stally opponents or when you're higher on the ladder where I hear stall is common as shit, Diancie is for pretty much anything else. Choice.
 
Did you read the team building process? It depends what's most needed depending on where you are on the ladder and/or how well you know your opponent if you're not laddering. Gardevoir is for more stally opponents or when you're higher on the ladder where I hear stall is common as shit, Diancie is for pretty much anything else. Choice.
No i didn't read the teambuilder process :x. I think Diancie-Mega is the better choice, it offers a reliable win condition and stall often runs Jirachi / Bronzong atm. Even in high ladder, i prefer to use Diancie-Mega. But maybe it is just a personnal preference ^^
 
Yeah, I think so too, which is why I didn't want to replace her completely. But stall really does shut the team down so Gardevoir's Taunt support really would be pretty vital if you wanted any chance. Diancie is more for cleaning up but Gardevoir punches really heavy holes and forces none-offensive foes to fight on her terms thanks to Taunt. Again, it's choice, whichever's more suitable.
 
Alright, team updated and I think looks vastly improved. Updated the team builder, descriptions, tags, importable, and it's 2am. Fanfuckingtastic.
 
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Something I don't quite get is why you are running HP Ice on Heatran, but not Icy Wind on Keldeo. I would use Ice wind>A water move on Keldeo, and Stone Edge over HP Ice on Heatran for Megazard.
 
Keldeo's two Water STABs handle Landorus and Gliscor well enough, and the only thing I see Icy Wind really helping with that her Water STAB's don't handle is Garchomp in a situation where there's still a Magnezone left on my opponent's team since that means killing it on the switch with Heatran falls short a bit. I might replace Scald though if it does become an issue, I had definitely considered it before, but I'm uncertain.
Also, I have Ancient Power on Heatran already, I know it does less to Megazard than Stone Edge but it still does a massive chunk and guarantees an OHKO on Talonflame. HP Ice is valuable on Heatran with the ability to remove Landorus T more effectively than Keldeo by baiting it on he switch, I cannot send out Diancie until that thing is removed ASAP. I'm pretty pleased with Heatran's coverage as he is.
 
I can see most of this team being destroyed or threatened by Mega Charizard Y, especially if Heatran is dead in battle.
Maybe you should take caution with Charizard, Diancie should be able to stop it from becoming that much of a threat but yeah.

Your team is pretty much incredible anyway and probably needs little to none changes.
Depending on what you regularly lead off with, watch out for rain teams and maybe sun teams.

And yeah, that should be it.
 
Thanks for your feedback, guys. Yeah, a well-played Megazard of any variant can bend me over the table pretty badly, and I only have situational answers to them like with Bisharp in the pre-Keldeo version. I'm not sure how to handle that though since the team seems to be at the point where threat-checks are so few and far between that bringing in a Megazard check would open up more weaknesses and it turns into teambuilder Whack-a-mole; that is unless more threats that I overlooked, and I probably did because I'm not very smart, come to light that do have a common solution that can be well integrated like before. My lead in an ideal world would be Garchomp to get hazards up early as possible, but that's very suspect to change depending on what my opponent has, I often lead with Celebi against Breloom leads, Keldeo against Lando leads and whatnot, nothing specifically needs to lead in any situation and take the shit if it's a bad match-up, and it should handle itself well enough from that early kickstarter; as long as the Scarfers and Celebi don't die early and Diancie doesn't see the light of day till she gets the all-clear or needs to Mega-evolve ASAP, you can usually play semi-recklessly with Chomp and Scizor for the most part though, if you can stick to the set formula and your opponent isn't well ahead of you then a lot of things on the threatlist can be managed (unless you get that one match-up). Rain is threatening as fuck to any team for the most part, thank Christ I've not seen one yet, so long as you keep Celebi around and catch the Klefki and/or Politoad when it comes back in. Sun I don't think is really common enough to worry massively about, but you're right that it probably would end as badly as an encounter with Trick Room, just an up-hill battle until you finally break. XD Thanks again for the feedback, much appreciated and glad you like it. :]
 
I may be breaking the rules since this is technically my second bump, but it is an update so it's not entirely unwarranted, not just the word 'bump'. I have made some extra extra adjustments all added in a new drop-tab under the team building and it's a bit more solid now. I was hoping to come back and update this with 'Dual Core Team! Now in Top 10 on the Showdown Ladder!' but alas, my laziness has said that is not meant to be, I've only had about 20 matches on ladder, give or take, and I planned to binge-ladder to get reqs for the Greninja suspect in the few hours I had left, but sadly it never happened. I'll take it to the next OU ladder, and till then you guys keep me in mind when you're voting out that fucking frog. :]
Tl;dr: I'm bumping again cos I'm a fucking rebel, made some updates which can be found in the new drop bar, I'm very lazy with laddering.
 

Alkov

plopping
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Hey! :] I actually made reqs with a similar team of your's (apart from the celebi and heatran set)but I would recommend running a fast heatran with taunt instead of being choiced lock because it will help you break some annoying walls better like clefable. Also, it's quite pointless to have celebi baton passing a nasty plot boost to your only two special attackers that is choice locked since it'll be easy for your opponents to play around that. Lastly, it would be the Altaria's spread, I'll recommend just outspeeding based +ve 135s like lopunny after 1 dragon dance and putting the rest into HP and only the remaining into attack. The given bulk allows you to actually roost stall a scarfed landorus-T with earthquake. The spread would become
EVs: 248HP / 56atk / 204speed
Jolly Nature
Another variant would be running a defensive nature such as to always survive 2EQs from lando-t so that you can actually set up in the face of it but that would make you slower and may not put in as much work against all the fast Megas. :]
 
Thanks for the reply, man! Yeah, the Choice lock definitely does stop Nasty Pass from living up to its full potential, but I'm really not sure which one to remove the Scarf from. Scarf Tran has handled many things that thought they could outspeed and kill him, or at least do a number on him. Things like Megagross and maybe the Lati twins too could have some fun with my team if it weren't for that. Regardless, I'd be lying if I said being Choice locked didn't screw me over many many times before so I'll give it a try because I'd be pretty stupid not to. XD
Thanks for the suggested Altaria spread. Yeah, I tried a defensive DD Altaria spread that would let me set up on more things, it takes two Lando EQs, two Latios Psyshocks, two Spec-Keld Icy Winds, etc, but that made her very useless before she managed to set up and also meant she had to set up even more DDs to be helpful at all, at which point I was practically asking to be critted eventually. The spread I'm using now was taken from another thread where it was recommended on the basis of wanting to speed-tie with other base 80s like Mamo, if I have a chance to win a speed-tie and avoid the Icicle Crash then I will. I will try your set though, definitely, it seems like a good compromise between the offensive and defensive variants.
Thanks a lot for your help again, fren! :]
 
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Nice team with awesome synergy, I love teams with DFS + FWG cores. This team is good enough so that I don't have to nitpick all of your mons one by one so while I will do a one by one analysis like I normally do I will also do a threat list talking about this team's weakness to certain threats/cores.



Lando-T

Change EV spread to 248 HP / 88+ Atk / 152 Def / 8 SDef / 8 Spe

This spread is really specific so I will explain my EV choices. 88 Atk EVs (plus adamant) allows Lando-T to kill standard defensive Rotom-W with a smack down + earthquake after rocks or a little prior damage. The defence and HP is to make Lando as bulky physically as possible while the 8 EVs in special defence are to live Timid Mega Manectric's HP Ice. 8 speed as you know is to speedcreep standard Rotom.


Keldeo

Solid, no changes here unless you feel like you need a different hidden power or icy wind since HP electric is not as useful since regular Gyarados isn't that common and gyaradoses are more likely to mega evolve off the bat due to getting STAB on crunch.


Heatran

Replace Ancient Power with Earth Power

Your team currently has 4 out of six members walled by Heatran and three of them can learn a ground move and the 4th can learn a (admittedly sub-optimal) fighting move. This team is also walled to hell and back by the infamous VenuTran core (I will talk about that later) and Earth Power fixes this to an extent by hitting opposing Heatran and your Heatran walling most Venusaur. Ancient Power isn't needed for birds since often birds are forced out anyway and fire blast hits them hard.


Altaria

If you want you can change EVs to 72 HP / 196+ Atk / 240 Spe

This set is just slightly more bulky than the standard one to take hits better. 240 speed is to outspeed postitive base 125s at plus 1 which is all the speed Mega Alt needs IMO.


Celebi

Good nasty pass set though the following set is an option although you lose the nasty pass utility (this is just a hesitant suggestion)

Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- Recover

Basically this set completely fixes your VenuTran Problem and if you do choose this there is even a case for not having Earth Power on Heatran. This set is highly underrated and is a very good bulky attacker. 80 HP is to take an adamant Garchomp's outrage.


Scizor

I have very little experience with defog scizor and I won't pretend otherwise. Someone else hopefully will rate this mon.


Threat List (not including ones mentioned in the OP)

VenuTran core:

As mentioned previously the VenuTran core walls your entire team. Two of my suggested changes are based off your weakness to this core.

Ice Punch Mega Gallade (and to a lesser extent ice punch Mega Lopunny)

Ice Punch Mega Gallade has 0 switchins on your team and can potentially tear through every member. Mega Lopunny is also a problem but to a lesser extent.


Mega Gyarados + Clefable + Heatran core with a Keldeo counter (which all of the competent ones have)

Mega Gyarados wrecks your team at Plus 1 with Keldeo removed and Altaria weakened. The core mentioned above is one of the ones that can easily set up such sweeps so you need to be careful around them. (This is also the case with the much less common Mega Sharpedo)




I will have to test the team more to find some more threats. I hope I helped with your team and I wish you every success in the future with it.
 
Thanks for the rate, man! Lando's EVs will be edited accordingly, thanks for that spread.
Yeah, Heatran has some major 4MSS, I have lost games before because I was just stalled to death by a defensive Heatran late-game which I'm pretty embarrassed of since I have two answers to it already in Lando and Keld. I've not come across Venu-Tran yet, just the two on their own but it sounds nauseating to handle, especially if it's the EQing Venu as mentioned which I have no solutions for. Honestly, I'm going to have to agree and slap Earth Power back on Heatran. I've honestly been wishing I had Earth Power much more than I've been using Ancient Power, or even HP Ice but that's not going anywhere. Thanks for being the voice of reason on that, I was smacking my head on what to do for ages.
I'm trying various spreads on Altaria, I've tried full bulky DDance, I've tried the one in my post, right now I'm running with Alkov's suggestion and that one's been going great so far. I'll definitely give your recommendation a go too, MAlt is one very versatile mon with her EV spreads and there's always room to try something new.
I have seen that Celebi spread before, or similar ones to it, and as tempting as it is to run, I need Nasty Plot or else Mega Slowbro ends this team. Venu-Tran cores are massive hurdles in their own right, but this team does have some basic capabilities to handle it even in its current state. Mega Slowbro, without Nasty Plot Celebi, I have no chance. I know you mentioned that it is a hesitant suggestion, I wanted to explain that I had thought to use that set before my reasons for not doing so in the end.

Good lord, the Gallade weakness! I never noticed that! I'd encountered Gallade and Lop before, but that was only with the more original rendition of the team with Mega Diancie, she had ample opportunity to OHKO it if she got a safe switch in. Thanks for picking up on that, that's... Quite the mind-quake. I honestly don't really know what to do about that. The Mega Gyara should be fine unless I'm dealing with full hyper offence and MAlt is choked for opportunities to Roost up. I typically play her very carefully and only send her out to heal up some wear or Heal Bell before she can set up; it sounds like an even match-up overall with the game coming down to purely who plays best (I'm not one to talk much since my playing is much more lacking than my team-building).

Thank you very much for your rate, sorry for pestering you to write all that, but it was very insightful and I appreciate it, fren. :]
 

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