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O RLY? Is that a Mence? An OU RMT

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by I love cookies, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. I love cookies

    I love cookies

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    16

    [​IMG]
    ~Flying through the air, as swift as a Ninjask, here comes Salamence!~

    Introduction
    Hey everyone! I'm back with another RMT, but this time it's the old Steel and Dragon combo. My last team has served me well, but I couldn't get the fun of the Empoleon sweep because my team kept on KO'ing them before I brought him out. XD


    At A Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Team Building Process
    [​IMG]
    I wanted to build a team around one of the most used pokemon in all of D/P/P. DD Salamence hopped on to my team.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I needed a pokemon that compliments Salamence's weaknesses and resistances. Also something that would kill Salamence's threats, the steels. This is Magnezone.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    What would bring out the steels? What would be a nice lure? Gengar fit the description perfectly as it could lure and kill the steels if needed.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I had a nice core, but knew that Salamence's main counters were Hippowdon, Cress, and Porygon-2. Salamence couldn't kill them with Outrage even after a Dragon Dance. Scizor could put a dent into any of them.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Next, I needed something that could revenge threats, and lock steels into a move, so Magnezone could have a chance for itself to sweep. Hai Latias!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Something else that would help net Salamence a few 0HKO's was entry hazards. Some nice reliable leads were, Jirachi, Metagross, and Swampert. I saw that I had 2 fire weaknesses, so I put the fire resist Swampert.​



    The Team

    [​IMG]
    Swampert @Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
    [​IMG] Earthquake
    [​IMG] Ice Beam
    [​IMG] Roar
    [​IMG] Stealth Rock

    Comments: I would have to say Swampert is the most reliable lead I have ever used throughout my whole competitive experience. If I am against a bad matchup I switch out to the appropriate counter. Earthquake and Stealth Rock are both staples to a lead Swampert. I chose Ice Beam over Avalanche just in case a Flygon or Salamence decides to come in. Also because Salamence has Intimidate and would reduce Avalances power. Roar is there to scout for what could endanger Mence's chance to sweep. The EV's above provide the best bulkiness Swampert needs to perform its job as a bulky lead.



    [​IMG]
    Latias @Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    [​IMG] Draco Meteor
    [​IMG] Surf
    [​IMG] Thunderbolt
    [​IMG] Trick

    Comments: Latias is the first of my revenge killers. It deals with many of the threats in the current metagame. Salamence, Flygon, and much more. Latias invites T-tar and Scizor to come in. With some good prediction I can switch to one of the counters Swampert and Magnezone. Draco Meteor is a move that came instantly into my mind as it has 140 Base Power and is STABed. Surf and Thunderbolt is there for good type coverage. Trick is a fabulous move as it can cripple many pokemon that could damage Salamece's passage way for a sweep. The simple 252/252/4 provides Latias with speed and power.



    [​IMG]
    Scizor @Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    [​IMG] Bullet Punch
    [​IMG] Pursuit
    [​IMG] Superpower
    [​IMG] U-turn

    Comments: Doesn't everyone and their mother have one of these? Of course they do. It has only one weakness and a great ability that can power up its moves. The standard "Choice Band Scizor". This beast is the glue of almost every team. It checks multiple pokemon such as opposing Mence, T-Tar, Gengar, and Latias. U-turn can help weaken pokemon for Mence's sweep. Scizor can also revenge kill many pokemon that Salamence wouldn't have to waste recoil damage from Life Orb on. When in doubt Superpower your way through everything!



    [​IMG]
    Gengar @Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    [​IMG] Focus Blast
    [​IMG] Hidden Power [Fire]
    [​IMG] Protect
    [​IMG] Shadow Ball

    Comments: It's an airplane! No wait, it's a bird! Aww it's a Gengar. But not any type of Gengar, it's MYSTICgar. The Gengar that lures out Scizors and T-tars and kills them like no tomorrow. You know how it kills them? It's all in the move "Protect". Gengar can scout to see if the Scizor or T-tar are using "Pursuit" and use the appropriate move. Hidden Power [Fire] for Scizor and Focus Blast for T-tar. I usually send out Gengar early, so I can damage and scout their team. 252 Speed and 252 Sp. Atk presents Gengar as a fearsome sweeper. The only drawback is the 30 Speed IV's. That means other Base 110 + Nature Speed's can outspeed me.


    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @Salac Berry
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 28 HP/228 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    [​IMG] Charge Beam
    [​IMG] Hidden Power [Ice]
    [​IMG] Substitute
    [​IMG] Thunderbolt

    Comments: Magnezone+Salamence=Big Bang again? Magnezone is the number one player on my team. It gets an equal chance of sweeping as Salamence does. With the classic Sub Salac set and the awesome type coverage of Ice and Electric this thing is incredible. What makes it better than other pokemon that have the Sub Salac set is the ability "Magnet Pull" which lets it trap Choiced Steels *coughCBScizorcough* and set up and the move "Charge Beam" which lets it power up its Sp. Atk readying it for a sweep. Many people may think this is the "Steel Killer" set or the "Scarf" set, so this Magnezone does have an element of surprise.


    [​IMG]
    Salamence @Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -Sp. Atk)
    [​IMG] Dragon Dance
    [​IMG] Earthquake
    [​IMG] Stone Edge
    [​IMG] Outrage

    Comments: Now what you've all been waiting for. Salamence! This is a DD version, but I chose a pure-out Physical set because I had Magnezone take care of the Steels. This horrific sweeper reaches a terrifying speed of 492 after I DD once. That should outspeed Scarf Latias that does not have a speed boosting nature. Dragon Dance and Outrage were staples on this set. Earthquake was on next because of its 100% accuracy and 100 base power. Also to finish Steels that Magnezone couldn't finish, like other Magnezone's. The last move I chose was Stone Edge. That Rock move could KO Zapdos and Gyarados if it hit.


    The Last Glance
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Problems:

    Torment Tran
  2. Senzairu

    Senzairu

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    111
    Hi cookie lover, these are the changes I want to suggest....

    Gengar:
    Eh, I'd seriously get rid of it. That set is terribly overrated. What most people don't seem to get about the "almighty" MYSTICgar, is this...

    Picture the scenario:
    I switch in Scizor and you switch in Gengar. Scizor uses Bullet Punch or Pursuit. If he uses Bullet Punch you have to switch (after using Protect). If he uses Pursuit, you go for the KO with HP Fire. But what I don't understand is why everybody thinks that's going to work. There's no way in hell I would leave Scizor in on a Gengar that is carrying Protect BECAUSE the SURPRISE factor is gone from the MYSTICgar set. It was cool at first, but it's way too overused now to be as effective.

    Anyway, my point is you could do better for this team. I suggest this:

    Jirachi @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
    Jolly nature (+Speed, -Special Attack)
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Fire Punch
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Thunderbolt/Grass Knot
    Jirachi is a great Pokemon and this set has fantastic type coverage and a nice surprise factor since most people expect Jirachi to be scarfed.

    Magnezone:
    Same as Gengar, a great Pokemon, but an inferior set. I would go with the Choice Scarf set or even a standard set with Substitute, Explosion, Thunderbolt, and HP Ice/HP Grass (probably HP Grass since Swampert could give Mence trouble sweeping.)

    Salamence: The only suggestion I have is to change Stone Edge to Fire Blast. It gives you better coverage overall (even though I know you have Magnezone to get rid of steels). I still believe it's the better option.

    I hope this helps and good luck with the team.
  3. Bribery

    Bribery

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    320
    Have you considered Roost over Stone Edge on Salamence? One of its biggest flaws is residual damage from Life Orb/Stealth Rock/Sandstorm. Roost keeps Salamence around longer and can keep it safe from random priority moves. Outrage KOs most Gyarados and Zapdos after Stealth Rock anyways, and Magnezone gets rid of Steels that resist it.

    I want to suggest Choice Scarf Tyranitar over something as well. It will dispose of Scarf Latias/Starmie/Gengar that will easily revenge kill Salamence. I would drop Gengar for it, since it seems a little redundant with Latias accomplishing the same purpose.

    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
    Stone Edge | Crunch | Pursuit | Earthquake

    This will easily trap Latias, Starmie, and Gengar and OHKO them all with Pursuit. It also makes a great revenge killer in general, especially for CM Jirachi and Lucario.

    Now, 3 Choice users is too much, so I would change Latias to this set that I have been using lately:

    Latias @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    Dragon Pulse | Grass Knot | Hidden Power Fire | Recover

    This thing is a great lure for Tyranitar and Scizor. Latias can OHKO Scizor with HP Fire and 2HKO Tyranitar with Grass Knot. Tyranitar gets OHKOd by Grass Knot if it switches into Dragon Pulse as well. This Latias also has the benefit of removing pesky bulky waters, like Swampert and Suicune, out of Salamence's way. Grass Knot OHKOs Swampert and 2HKOs most Suicune. Gengar cannot do this.
  4. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,389
    Just one suggestion: Usually, people will anticipate Scizor's Pursuit. Thus, Quick Attack is quite useful instead because it can hurt Water types for more damage.
  5. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,780
    Please do not go around insulting sets. This is my personal favourite Magnezone set, but it does require some team support. It is certainly counterproductive with MysticGar, since it sets up on the Scizors that it is meant to kill (most will run from MYSTICgar these days. Gengar dies, you get a free setup.) Someone above also suggested a Scizor Lure latias - this really is not necessary with Magnezone. It works well with stuff that lures in Scizor and dies/switches, not kills it. Gengar is in fact excellent for this.

    In reality, you may have to chose who you want to sweep - Magnezone or Salamence? You have to remember that the steel killing ability is slightly limited. Also, with this set, it is good to use multiple trick scarfers - so something like Jirachi/Latias.

    Despite having Magnezone Salamence still needs Fire Blast due to a tendency for Skarmory to run Shed Shell.

    Scarftar would be great if it didn't hinder salamence.

    Anyway I am in no way aversed to you changing the set either, but it is not "inferior."

    Edit: Senzairu: don't worry - the set is less useful in most circumstances. There is some advice here about how to use the set so Ill leave it up. Rates are largely about opinion, so people's opinion on other people's opinion is sometimes necessary. I would, of course, advise everyone to try both sets, with the correct team support, and come to their own conclusions. I also agree with the rest of your post.

    Also, Torment tran is very uncommon, and can be roared out by Swampert if it is not the last poke.

    Illminded: it does actually have some synergy with Salamence. If it did not have Sandstream it would be a given. I don't like it when nobody fights one side of the argument, you see.

    Good luck with the team.
  6. Enygma

    Enygma

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    372
    You, sir, are boss. Finally someone that agrees with me, not like Aura Guardian who had an argument with me stating that Tyranitar and Salamence work well together. Tyranitar and Salamence is like oil and water, or worse, Obamasnow and lololololol Shedinja. I love you <33333

    Now onward to making this post NOT pointless spam.

    This team has a horrible time with Blissey. Salamence can handle her, but he would absolutely hate having to deal with status. So I'm gonna go ahead and suggest that you put Explosion somewhere on Magnezone. SubMagnezone absolutely baits Blissey to enter the seat, only to find a big fat KABOOM in her face.

    I would also recommend putting HP Grass over HP Fire, since the most obvious Pokemon being sent into Magnezone are usually Swampert. Without Swampert, Salamence is a bit more free to do some sweepage.

    I don't see Latias doing much for this team, but you probably have a reason. LO Jolteon has its fun with this team, being able to outspeed non-scarfed members of your team and OHKOing them. I cant think of anything to replace to handle this threat.... ScarfTran?
  7. Senzairu

    Senzairu

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    111
    Another suggestion I have is that you should probably include a threat list for this team since it would make it easier for us raters to help and offer suggestions.

    Well, my opinion is that it is an inferior set. And I offered that opinion for ILC so that he can make his team better. I don't care what YOU think of my opinion (since this isn't your RMT) so don't talk to me about it. Thanks.
  8. I Abuse Smeargles

    I Abuse Smeargles

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    93
    Hello Tr4Q. :)

    I will simply restate that you have a HUGE Torment Tran Weakness. It gets in for free on your CB Scizor's Bullet Punch; and then has a field-day with your team... so I recommend changing your Latias to a CM variant, which fixes your huge Torment Tran hole. ^^

    Nature: Timid
    Item: Leftovers
    EVs: 252 Speed 252 Special Attack 6 HP
    -Calm Mind
    -Surf
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Grass Knot / Recover / Hidden Power Fire

    This set will single handed beat down Torment Tran with an alternation of Calm Mind and Surf. It may take a large amount of turns, but Torment Tran WILL die, and you will then have a +6 Latias to sweep with! Be careful for Torment Trans with Sandstorm support, as they will probably be able to take out Latias.

    I hope this helps even the slightest bit.

    -Unique ( You know who. :D )
  9. Foster

    Foster

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    808
    Hey, just one thing that I would fix. I would replace life orb with lum berry on salamence. Since outrage is your only stab and main move, you won't want to lose those DDs by switching if you get confused. Since non-mixed mences expecially have great power even without a DD, losing life orb won't make that big of a difference. And who knows? Having some insurance against a t-wave or something could save you.

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