NOC OC NOC GAME OVER - Now Despair

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Good job town, I did come to suspect Blazade because of how accurate his posts and read on me were lol

I don't think I nailed a single bg the whole game and I can't quite say that I played well, I did try to play it by the book and be aggressive but that backfired. Activity was frustrating at times but I still had a good time.

I thought my OC was dumb until I saw the psychokinesist tennis ball flip
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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fwiw blazade i wanted to lynch former but was put in a position where my best play was to target u to ensure former would die the following day 'cause of who pblade voted for

the fact town went into LYLO even with all this shit going on and busted roles is really indicative of a few things, but honestly at this point I don't care and am just glad it's over. 2680-ish posts is way too fucking many especially when at least half is drama and petty squabbling, and 2 months on one game is tiring
 
I actually thought the end game was fairly good, although it felt much closer than it actually was. Maybe ppl will want to give hitmon crap, but I actually think all things considered this game ended up being ok. I really don't understand how the game got to 109 pages though. There really wasn't that much to talk about was there lol??

I don't think role madness works for NOC games. If you want to put in wacky/non-standard roles, then I think you need to pay special attention to how they interact as otherwise you're going to create an unbalanced game.

I don't think NOCs that encourage stealth lynching is very good. For that reason the lack of a hammer didn't make a lot of sense to me. This is what really made the game whack imo (well the revive stuff probably takes it but still...)

Same goes for double lynching. At least there's an argument to be made there but the double lynch mechanic just made the game prone to stealthing which is especially no good for NOCs. It's hard for me to see a way in which double lynching is that balanced but I suppose that maybe I just can't think of it right now.

Overall it was nice to see a different NOC game be played. Definitely felt more like some of the older smogon NOCs. Maybe that's a bad thing I dunno haha. props to hosting hitmon and I hope you aren't too deterred from hosting in the future
 

Haruno

Skadi :)
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RIP when the game comes down to if FH succeeded the stealth lynch or not. Oh wells

Game was unwinnable anyways. Neutrals outright had 0 chance of winning. Shoutouts vanillish for not doing a single kill for 7 cycles.
mafias needed a double or triple NK to actually stand a chance tbh. Nothing to say really except town was incredibly incredibly overpowered to such an extent that they could play as badly as possible and still win. LW + Martin + a million vanillagers would've been unbalanced enough but the fact that mostly everyone had an ability was kinda lol. Should've forfeit at cycle 2 like i wanted. gg team.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Jalmont I found there was rarely a shortage of things to talk about after d1 actually.

Mind you my activity was well above what anyone should be expected to do but there were so any possibilities to explore and ideas to discuss, the only real section of arguing was the 5 pages of me and haruno bitching at each other
 

Haruno

Skadi :)
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If the double lynch didn't happen here's what the endgame would've looked like.

pblade/blazade/fh. Aubisio was getting killed off 100% because FH simply does not have the say nor personality to get him to do shit so he had to rely on pblade kingmaking for him between him and blazade. Doable I guess?

No way in hell was he not getting lynched off asap since him unvoting would make it very obvious that he was scum and that we would've won with the double lynch so yeah. Anyone that thinks otherwise is really underestimating how quick village is to bandwagon and the unvote was essentially our autowin out but time issues (didn't matter unless FH actually put it on xx:59 then we could've at least bitched at leet for ending game early and screwing us).

Overall there wasn't much mafia could do at all at any point in the game tbh to really stop this result. Revives were absolutely retarded. Town had waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much fucking info roles. Vanillish refusing to kill at all was absolutely fatal for mafia + himself.

Pancake: fucked no chance of winning
acid: fucked no chance of winning
vanillish: wouldn't have managed to kill 5 players starting from cycle 8 onwards like come on lol, his only other kill was i believe walrein on n1?

idk, good job leet on hosting your first game. Messier than it should've been but that's what a BYO is supposed to look like. Would've been interesting to play if there were actually kills at night since that's what ultimately made the game flop since frankly no night kills meant anyone besides town winning was pretty much impossible.
 

pancake

movement and location
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OK I've got a real question for you guys: internet Hitmonleet

how the FUCK was my role supposed to win. I have to wait until there's 3 village left, then use it. that's legitimately it, and it's impossible to fakeclaim. If I grabbed ANYONE AT ALL I got lynched. Couldn't I at least have had a kill? or didn't tell them that it was me who grabbed them? just looking at every role in this game my role was by far the shittiest lmao
 
OK I've got a real question for you guys: internet Hitmonleet

how the FUCK was my role supposed to win. I have to wait until there's 3 village left, then use it. that's legitimately it, and it's impossible to fakeclaim. If I grabbed ANYONE AT ALL I got lynched. Couldn't I at least have had a kill? or didn't tell them that it was me who grabbed them? just looking at every role in this game my role was by far the shittiest lmao
counterpoint: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
 

Josh

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ok this game wasn't awful but couple big things for the future. role madness will never be balanced in noc. it can still be fun to play which is all good as long as there are no insane roles

NEVER USE GLOBAL MOTION TRACKER AGAIN. HOLY SHIT. LIGHTWOLFS ROLE IS THE MOST BROKEN ROLE I'VE SEEN. it simultaneously is easily provable and cross checks all fake claims. fuck off. it's better than omega joat.

don't do a lynch redirect in a noc. perhaps Martin could've been able to redirect ONE vote for the day, effectively doubling his voting power. lynch redirect is fairly strong but aside from that lynches are the core of nocs and one person being able to whimsically skip one just isn't fun.

double lynches are broken and shouldn't exist. easy game break: after one mason dies the next is proven town. every player in the game gets 1 vote. Town wins. anyone breaks it they're policy lynched as scum. the mechanic makes sense theoretically but doesn't practically. hammers rly should be in place to prevent last second changes but otherwise just make it random or whoever had votes first or whatever. just no double lynches, not fair for scum and not fun.

don't make unwinnable roles. that's a given. looking at acid and pancake cus fairys was definitely doable

this game is solved by roles and not by scum hunting but I suppose if that's what you want then it's alright. unrestricted omniguard is really strong too though and probably shouldn't be a thing. other than that, grats town lol
 
i think hitmon is trying to paint me as a drug dealer or smth


koalas get high (baisically) from eating eucalyptus leaves (only thing they eat)


then i'm a koala and i give people 'medication'


coincidence? i think not
 
There's a fair amount of scumhunting when all the roles are on crack, which is what happened this game.

I still think role madness can be balanced and interesting but it's a different flavor of game and it takes some intricate game design imo.

This game wasn't bad in theory or execution, really it felt like an above average role NOC if you cut out the bullshit drama
 
well [REDACTED] was in the game, so that's unavoidable :/





I feel like if scum had had roles on the level of texas/martin, it would've been more effective.

And mass revives are craaaaaazy
 
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The problem I see in a lot of role heavy NOCs is people try to make all the roles as powerful as they would be on their own and don't do much to make the mafia powerful, which just makes town broken because they suddenly have a ton of info/protection

There's a lot of room for roles that do stuff that is only situationally useful or has drawbacks but I rarely see them in NOC role madness (which to my understanding is just a NOC without vanillas)

It's definitely harder to balance and it requires a good grasp of NOC play though
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Said this on discord, the town wasn't even that overpowered with the exception of lightwolf's role. Town generally needs strong roles to be able to beat a strong scum team, it says something when we lynch correctly for seven straight days and still get to lylo

@host will there be a postgame?
 
Said this on discord, the town wasn't even that overpowered with the exception of lightwolf's role. Town generally needs strong roles to be able to beat a strong scum team, it says something when we lynch correctly for seven straight days and still get to lylo

@host will there be a postgame?
Postgame will be in a few days or so (this finished right before my scheduled vacation), but internet will probably be interested in doing a postgame as well, potentially.
 
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