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Octillery (Analysis) (Update) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2] IM UNDER THE SEA YOUNG WILD AND FREE

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jukain, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    [Overview]

    <p>The oceans roar and the waves crash down; yet surprisingly the cause is a seemingly weak octopus. Octillery is no weakling, however, boasting impressive base 105 offensive stats and a movepool that includes the elusive Water Spout, complemented by a plethora of coverage moves such as Energy Ball, Ice Beam, and Fire Blast. One might be wondering why all of these positive attributes are on a Pokemon that resides deep in the trenches of NU. Unfortunately for Octillery, its Speed is abysmal and its defenses equally horrific, leaving it with few opportunities to switch in and allowing it to easily be revenge killed by faster Pokemon. Despite these disadvantages, smart play and the right support permit Octillery to showcase its jaw-dropping power and take its place among the titans of the sea.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast
    item: Choice Specs / Mystic Water
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Octillery is the strongest user of the coveted Water Spout outside of Ubers. Usually, the modus operandi to get Octillery in safely is to sacrifice a Pokemon and buy Octillery an opportunity to switch in or to bring it in on a support move such as Stealth Rock or Encore. From there, this eight-tentacled fiend usually drops its nuclear Water Spout, occasionally using a coverage move if a Water resistant switch-in is predicted. Surf is chosen for the second slot as an alternate Water-type STAB, being stronger than Water Spout once Octillery drops below 63% HP. The last two moves are primarily used to provide coverage against Pokemon that resist Octillery's STAB. Energy Ball is key, hitting other Water-type Pokemon, such as Samurott and Alomomola, for super effective damage. The last moveslot is mainly governed by personal preference, as both moves hit Grass-types such as Amoonguss super effectively, with Ice Beam checking most Dragon-types and Fire Blast being super effective against Steel-types.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs are the golden standard for special attackers, with maximum investment in Speed to be as fast as is possible for our slow octopus friend and the same in Special Attack for highest possible damage output. As far as items are concerned, both are quite useful, with Choice Specs granting far more power but Mystic Water allowing Octillery to bluff a Choice item and giving the benefit of being able to switch moves, while still boosting the power of Octillery's STAB, albeit not as much as Choice Specs. Lum Berry is also an option to deter paralysis and sleep attempts from walls such as Amoonguss. While Sniper is usually the preferred ability, Suction Cups can be an excellent choice as it prevents phazing, which is invaluable if one is Baton Passing Octillery stat boosts. Suction Cups Octillery is one of the very few Baton Pass recipients that cannot be phazed, giving it a solid niche, and it appreciates the boosts to its abysmal Speed and its Special Attack that is skyrocketed to devastating levels. Partners such as Ninjask, Agility + Baton Pass Sawsbuck, Volbeat, and Mr. Mime are required in such cases to supply boosts to Octillery, making it a near-unstoppable killing machine.</p>

    <p>The main form of support that should be added to any team containing Octillery is Rapid Spin, as the power of Water Spout is dependent on Octillery's HP percentage; Armaldo and Shell Smash Torkoal are the best and only choices unless one counts inferior Pokemon such as Wartortle. Cleric support is helpful, as Octillery despises all forms of status. Altaria, Musharna, Lickilicky, Miltank, and Vileplume are viable choices for this role. Physical attackers like Sawk, Absol, Braviary, Golurk, and Emboar can tear through the special walls that trouble Octillery. Overall, Octillery does not need heavy support, but the support it needs is vital to its success.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room Sweeper
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast
    item: Expert Belt / Mystic Water
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Octillery's mediocre Speed stat is a burden under normal conditions, under Trick Room it is one of the fastest Pokemon in NU. Switching Octillery in under Trick Room is easy. Generally, as with all Trick Room sweepers, the way to go is to have a teammate set up Trick Room and then bring in Octillery safely to wreak havoc on the opposing team. The all-powerful Water Spout finds its place on this set, with Octillery being able to pull off the nuke with ease under Trick Room. Energy Ball is used to hit opposing Water-types, and the last slot is a choice between the perfect accuracy and Dragon coverage offered by Ice Beam and the power that comes inherent in Fire Blast; it depends on what Octillery's teammates can handle. Although Trick Room requires careful play, especially on a frail Pokemon like Octillery, the rewards are incomparable if pulled off correctly.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs optimize Octillery for Trick Room, with maximum investment in HP and Special Attack to increase survivability and maximize Octillery's power. A Quiet nature and 0 Speed IVs make Octillery as fast as possible in Trick Room. The choice of item is largely irrelevant and does not affect Octillery very much, but the positive attributes of each item should be noted; Expert Belt causes Octillery's coverage moves to inflict more damage to their generally bulky targets that take super effective damage from them, while Mystic Water increases the power of Octillery's STAB.</p>

    <p>As this set is created for Trick Room, support to set it up is required. Musharna is the best choice, but there are many other options such as Beheeyem, Banette, Duosion, Audino, and Exeggutor, each of which has its own advantages and disadvantages. Rapid Spin support is key because entry hazards weaken the power of Water Spout, with Armaldo and Torkoal being the only viable choices outside of inferior Pokemon such as Wartortle. Marowak is an excellent offensive partner because the two beasts of Trick Room break down each others' checks and counters, while also boasting decent type synergy. Lastly, a late-game cleaner, such as Zangoose or Absol, is recommended to take out the trash after Octillery's aquatic rampage has ended.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Octillery's strange combination of traits and moves gives it a plethora of other options to choose from. A Choice Scarf could be used in order to patch up Octillery's low Speed stat, but its power is greatly reduced and it only outspeeds up to max Speed base 100s, meaning it's not worth the inability to switch moves. Psychic gives super effective on Fighting-types, dealing slightly more damage to Gurdurr and Sawk than Surf, but the difference is negligible and Psychic doesn't provide any additional coverage. Scald is another STAB option, boasting a useful burn chance, but the drop in power from Surf is significant enough for it to be an inferior choice.</p>

    <p>A set composed of Thunder Wave and 3 attacks could be used in an attempt to mitigate Octillery's Speed issues, though Octillery's mediocre defenses will often be a letdown. Toxic can be utilized to cripple walls, but generally straight-up attacking is the better course of action. Haze could have some potential use to shut down the troublesome Calm Mind Musharna, but Octillery is way too frail to abuse it properly. Another useful option is Flamethrower, a 100% accurate but weaker alternative to Fire Blast. Acid Spray can be used to wreak havoc on walls like Lickilicky by lowering their Special Defense stat. Signal Beam has the sole purpose of hitting Ludicolo super effectively. Icy Wind might allow Octillery to outspeed a switch-in. Substitute would ease prediction, but it is contradictory to Water Spout. Lastly, Octillery's solid Attack stat can be abused with physical moves such as Waterfall, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Return, and Flail, but the lack of coverage on Grass-types makes special variants more effective. To essentially sum this section up, Octillery has a large movepool, but few options are actually all that useful and one would usually do best to stick to the moves listed on the main sets.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Generally, beating Octillery is not difficult thanks to its mediocre defenses and terrible Speed. Ludicolo is a perfect counter, boasting a 4x resistance to Water Spout and taking little damage from any of Octillery's other attacks. Paralysis is a major issue, as one full paralysis means a dead Octillery. Amoonguss, Water Absorb Cacturne, Lapras, Seismitoad, and Mantine make ideal switch-ins to Octillery's frighteningly powerful STAB Water-type attacks. Altaria walls it and can set up on any Octillery lacking Ice Beam. Calm Mind Musharna can boost its Special Defense to a point where Octillery cannot break through, and Gardevoir is in a similar boat. Miltank and Lickilicky are adequate checks and have numerous ways of forcing misery upon Octillery. Regice and Muk can take pretty much any attack that Octillery might throw at them with great ease. Otherwise, anything that can take a full health Water Spout or set up entry hazards, particularly when combined with a sturdy spinblocker, is troublesome for Octillery.</p>
  2. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    Hi pokemon0078! I'm sorry it took me so long to get to this, but here goes!

    • For the Trick Room Sweeper set, I'd like Mystic Water to be slashed, since it powers up the move you use 99% of the time.

    For the move order, I'd like it to be

    name: Trick Room Sweeper
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast
    item: Expert Belt
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    • Fire Blast is a handy move to hit Grass types harder, like Serp, Amoonguss, Vileplume etc, though it isnt quite as useful as Ice Beam.
    • Mention a few more offensive teammates, things that can clean up after Octillery does a lot of damage.



    For the Baton Pass receiver:

    • ugh Charge Beam, I don't think I'd want to use that ever. AC it, put Fire Blast or Water Spout there. Charge Beam is bad, just bad. it can't set up a sweep on licky or regirock since they both paralyze.
    • Mystic Water mention in AC, no recoil + more power
    • Mention a few more teammates, there are other options to give Octillery speed in a less obvious way, like Agility Pass Sawsbuck, and it works.


    Choice Specs:
    • Rename it to All-out Attacker, slash Mystic Water. It is a really good item on Octillery.
    • More offensive teammates, Sawk breaks down special walls, so does Absol. Mention them and some more
    • I'd also mention Thunder Wave in AC here, it is a great move and Octillery can use it well. Mention that the loss of coverage hurts though


    OO:
    • Mention Acid Spray, Flamethrower, Signal Beam, Icy Wind, Substitute, Sludge Wave


    Checks and Counters:
    • expand here a bit, it hates paralysis
    • Mantine walls it
    • Lapras
    • Regice
    • Muk
    • A lot of things can tank one water spout and OHKO in return.
  3. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    I am sorry that it took me so long to respond to this but all of your changes are implemented Raseri and this is ready for QC checks.
  4. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    sure thing, i like this now

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  5. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    tyvm Raseri, two more please! :D
  6. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    From the Project: Revamp NU thread:

    I'm still seeing the same issue here. I can understand a different set for TR since it deviates enough and requires different partners etc, but Baton Pass Receiver and All-Out Attacker are literally the exact same set except the former has like 8 more slashes and mentions some BP partners. Is the difference between the two /really/ enough to require two separate sets for what is essentially the same moveset and EV spread (and same playstyle, even - you use Octillery the exact same way!)?

    I'm strongly inclined to think that it's really not that big of a difference. You can simply slash abilities like Sniper / Suction Cups and when writing, point out that Suction Cups is useful when it's a Baton Pass receiver and to otherwise use Sniper. Same with teammates - mention good offensive teammates, then you can devote a paragraph in AC to talk about BP teammates. I'd like to hear the opinions of other QC members.
  7. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    Alright well I talked it over with zeb, and we agree that the two sets are very similar. The best course of action is to merge the Baton Pass recipient set with the All-out attacker set.

    So keep the moves that the All-out attacker, as well as the item slash.

    But since Baton Pass recipient is still very good, I'd like a big mention of it in AC of the all out attacker set, describing its role on Baton Pass chains, and what makes it so effective on baton pass chains
  8. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    I think that's a big enough ac mention :P

    EDIT: I want to move All-Out Attacker to first set. Objections?
  9. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    I'm fine with that.
  10. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    QC get on this,, its been sitting here forever with no checks
  11. Django

    Django
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    o_k I'm fine with this

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  12. Keiran

    Keiran

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    i don't see a qc 2/3

    [qc]2/3[/qc]

    django is ridiculous
  13. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    keiran is a melon

    tyvm i will get on writing this!
  14. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    sorry for the wait, this is written up and ready for gp checks
  15. Diana

    Diana This isn't even my final form
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    Placeholder, going to work on amchecking this one right now.

    Okay, amcheck is complete, take what you want from it. You don't have to pay attention to the few comments if they don't look right but I felt like they were things that might be worth mentioning.

    Show Hide


    Red=delete
    Blue=add
    Purple=comments

    [Overview]

    <p>The oceans are roaring and the waves are crashing; yet the cause is a seemingly weak weakling octopus. Octillery is no weakling, however, boasting flashy dual base 105 offensive stats and a movepool consisting of the elusive Water Spout, along with a plethora of coverage moves such as Energy Ball, Ice Beam, and Fire Blast. At this point, one may might be wondering why all of these positive attributes are on a Pokemon that resides in the deep trenches of NU. Unfortunately for Octillery, its Speed is abysmal and its defenses like a horror movie, leaving it with few opportunities to switch-in switch in and making it allowing it to be easily revenge killed by any faster Pokemon. Despite these disadvantages, smart play and the right support allow Octillery to showcase its jaw-dropping power and take its place among the titans of the sea.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast
    item: Choice Specs / Mystic Water
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Meet Octillery, the most powerful octopus in the world of Pokemon. From a quick look at its moves, one will immediately notice the stand-out Water Spout, a move only distributed to a very lucky few, with Octillery being its best user outside of Ubers. Usually, the modus operandi to get Octillery in is to fodder off a Pokemon sacrifice a Pokemon and get Octillery a free switch-in or to bring it in on a support move such as Stealth Rock or Encore, usually against a slower Pokemon or wall that cannot do much to Octillery. From there, this eight-tentacled fiend usually drops the nuke that is Water Spout, occasionally using a coverage move if one thinks that a wall that can tank Water Spouts, such as Amoonguss, is going to switch-in switch in. Octillery is not exactly an easy Pokemon to get into play, but once in play it is a force to be reckoned with. Surf is chosen for the second slot because, once Octillery is below approximately 63 percent HP, it is more powerful than Water Spout. The last two moves are supply coverage to hit the Pokemon that resist Octillery's STAB. Energy Ball is key to hit other Water-types such as Samurott and Alomomola that do not take much damage from Water Spout. The last slot is mainly personal preference, as both moves hit Grass-types such as Amoonguss hard, with the former Ice Beam dealing more damage to Dragon-types and the latter Fire Blast being super effective on Steel-types. To be perfectly honest, none of the moves in the final two slots will be used very often unless it is predicting a wall to switch-in switch in, as Water Spout or Surf, depending on Octillery's HP percentage, will usually be the move of choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs are the golden standard for special attackers, with maximum investment in Speed to be as fast as is possible for our slow octopus friend and maximum investment in Special Attack for maximum damage output. (This first sentence seems a bit awkward, using maximum three times, can you find a good way to reword this? It's fine as grammar goes but doesn't look right to me.) As far as item is items are concerned, both are quite useful, with Choice Specs granting much more power, but Mystic Water allowing allows Octillery to bluff the aforementioned Choice Specs and gives the benefit of being able to switch moves, while still boosting the power of Octillery's STAB, albeit not as much as Choice Specs. Lum Berry is also an option to deter paralysis and sleep attempts from the likes of walls such as Amoonguss. While Sniper is the preferred ability due to always being a factor thanks to the chance for a critical hit being present in every move, Suction Cups can be an excellent choice to prevent phazing, but most importantly which is most important if one is Baton Passing Octillery stat boosts. Octillery is one of the very few Baton Pass recipients that cannot be phazed when using Suction Cups, giving it a solid niche, and it appreciates the boosts to its abysmal Speed and its decent Special Attack skyrocketed that skyrocket them to devastating levels. Partners such as Ninjask, Agility + Baton Pass Sawsbuck, Volbeat, and Mr. Mime are required in that case to supply boosts to Octillery. After receiving said boosts, Octillery is a near-unstoppable killing machine.</p>

    <p>The main type of support that should be added to any team containing Octillery is Rapid Spin, as the power of Water Spout is dependent on Octillery's HP percentage, which is depleted by entry hazards;. Armaldo is the best and, well, only choice unless one counts useless NFE Pokemon such as Wartortle. (Is Torkoal worth mentioning? Just a thought as this makes it seem like it doesn't even exist.) Entry hazards are beneficial for Octillery to secure important KOs and abuse the switches it forces upon slower Pokemon. Garbodor and Cacturne are the best choices for Spikes, while and the aforementioned Armaldo, Regirock, and Golem are the best choices for Stealth Rock. Cleric support is helpful, as Octillery despises all forms of status,. Altaria, Musharna, and Vileplume being pretty much are basically the only choices. Physical attackers such as Sawk, Absol, Braviary, Golurk, and Emboar can tear through special walls such as Amoonguss, Miltank, and Lickilicky that trouble Octillery. Overall, Octillery does not need heavy support, but the support it needs is vital to its success.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room Sweeper
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast
    item: Expert Belt / Mystic Water
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Octillery's mediocre Speed stat is a detriment under normal conditions, under Trick Room it is one of the "fastest" Pokemon in NU. Under normal circumstances, it takes careful play, a decent amount of support, and a bit of prediction for Octillery to function, but switching Octillery in under Trick Room is easy. Generally, as with all Trick Room sweepers, the modus operandi is to have a teammate set up Trick Room and then bring in Octillery safely, proceeding to wreak havoc on the opposing team. The all-powerful Water Spout finds its place on this set, with Octillery being able to pull off the nuke with ease under Trick Room. Once Octillery is low on health, Surf is more powerful than Water Spout. Energy Ball is used to hit opposing Water-types, and the last slot is basically perfect accuracy and hitting Dragon-types versus more power and hitting Steel-types; the choice is dependent on what Octillery's teammates can handle. Although Trick Room is not the most reliable strategy in the world and requires careful play, especially on such a frail Pokemon as Octillery, the rewards are insurmountable if it is pulled off correctly.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs optimize Octillery for Trick Room, with maximum investment in HP to increase survivability and because investment in Speed is contradictory to Trick Room, with 0 Speed IVs and a Speed-reducing nature to further increase this optimization; the Special Attack EVs maximize power. The choice of item is largely irrelevant and does not affect Octillery very much, but the positive attributes of each item should be noted; Expert Belt causes Octillery's coverage moves to inflict more damage to their generally bulky targets that take super effective damage from them, and while Mystic Water increases the power of Octillery's STAB; it is all person personal preference. The given moves are optimal and there are not any replacements that should be considered.</p>

    <p>Since As this set is created for Trick Room, support to set it up is required. Musharna is the best choice, but there are many others such as Beheeyem, Banette, Duosion, Audino, and Exeggutor, all each of which have their its own advantages and disadvantages. Rapid Spin support is key because entry hazards weaken the power of Water Spout, with Armaldo being the only viable choice outside of inferior NFEs such as Wartortle. (My question about Torkoal applies here too.) Stealth Rock support is helpful because it allows Octillery to deal the most possible damage to the opposing team, with Cradily, Armaldo, Regirock, and Golem being excellent choices, while Spikes is optional and wastes valuable turns., but if If one would desire them, Garbodor and Cacturne are the best choices. Marowak is an excellent offensive partner because the two beasts of Trick Room break down each others' checks and counters, while also boasting decent type synergy. Lastly, a late-game cleaner such as Choice Band Braviary, Choice Band Sawk, or Absol is recommended to take out the trash after Octillery's aquatic rampage has ended.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Octillery's strange combination of traits and moves gives it a plethora of other options to choose from. A Choice Scarf may could be used in order to patch up Octillery's low Speed stat, but its power is greatly reduced and it only outspeeds up to max Speed base 100s, making it usually not meaning it's not usually worth the inability to switch moves. Psychic is super effective on Fighting-types, dealing slightly more damage to Throh than Surf, but the difference is negligible and all other Fighting-types are hit harder by Surf. (Sawk and Gurdurr are hit harder by Psychic as well... It's up to you if you want to mention Poison-types like Garbodor, Haunter, and Amoonguss here as well.) Scald is another STAB option, boasting a useful burn chance, but the drop in power from Surf is significant enough for it to be an inferior choice. Flash Cannon is a 100% accurate move that hits Ice-types super effectively, but Fire Blast is superior and Flash Cannon has rather redundant coverage otherwise. Sludge Bomb hits Grass-types super effectively, but Ice Beam has superior coverage outside of hitting Grass-types, in addition to being super effective against Amoonguss.</p>

    <p>A set composed of Thunder Wave and 3 attacks could be used in an attempt to mitigate Octillery's Speed issues, though Octillery's mediocre defenses will often be a letdown. Toxic can be utilized to cripple walls, but generally straight-up attacking is the better course of action. Haze could have some potential use to shut down the troublesome Calm Mind Musharna, but Octillery is way to frail to abuse it properly, although a Choice Scarf set might find a home for it. The last of the useful options is Flamethrower, a 100% accurate but weaker alternative to Fire Blast. Acid Spray, Signal Beam, Icy Wind, Substitute, and Sludge Wave could all have extremely limited potential use uses. Lastly, Octillery's solid Attack stat can be abused with physical moves such as Waterfall, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Return, and Flail, but the lack of coverage on Steel- and Grass-types makes special variants overall more effective. To essentially sum this section up, Octillery has a large movepool, but few options are actually all that useful and one would usually do best to stick to the moves listed on the main sets.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Generally, beating Octillery is not difficult thanks to its mediocre defenses and abysmal Speed. Paralysis is a major issue, as one full paralysis means a dead Octillery, while also causing Octillery to lose the ability to outspeed walls that are key to outspeed such as Amoonguss. Speaking of Amoonguss, it and Water Absorb Cacturne make ideal switch-ins to Octillery's frighteningly powerful STAB Water-type attacks, as well as do Exeggutor and Alomomola. Altaria walls and can set up on any Octillery lacking Ice Beam. Calm Mind Musharna can boost its Special Defense to a point where Octillery cannot break it., and Gardevoir is in a similar boat. Miltank and Lickilicky are adequate checks and have numerous ways of forcing misery upon Octillery. Ludicolo is a perfect counter, boasting a 4x resistance to Water Spout and taking little damage from any of Octillery's other attacks. Mantine, Lapras, Regice, and Muk are all walls that can defeat Octillery with great ease. Otherwise, anything that can take a full health Water Spout in return or set up entry hazards, particularly when combined with a sturdy spinblocker, is troublesome to Octillery.</p>
  16. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    I will stamp this for now, as Diana did a great job checking this (and I went through stuff with her on IRC). My changes and comments are in bold.

    Although, QC, more specically Django (I think), will go through this from their point of view, as the quality is lacking from that perspective. This might lead to an additional GP check as well.

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  17. Django

    Django
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    Not GP Checking this, I just want to point out a few things QC wise which need to be improved (we might have missed these in QC stage, if so my bad, but its hard to tell without a skeleton to compare it to)

    Don't mention entry hazard support without specific KOs Octillery can gain, its just hot air otherwise. Stealth Rock is generally ok, but every team should be running Stealth Rock regardless. Spikes support should certainly not be mentioned unless there are relevant KOs gained (feel free to include them if they exist).

    Choice Band Braviary and Choice Band Sawk are not late game sweepers, they are wallbreakers. If you ment Scarf then thats fine.

    Psychic does actually hit Fighting types harder (180 > 142.5).

    If these options don't actually have any significant usage, remove them. Some of the other options listed are actually more useful:

    Acid Spray can wreck walls like Lickilicky, Signal Beam hits Ludicolo, Icy Wind means Octillery might outspeed a switch in, and Sub can ease prediction. Expand on these more, and lessen the mentions of the others.

    It seems to be well written otherwise, just wanted to point these out before it goes onsite.
  18. Keiran

    Keiran

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    • Remove Alomomola from C&C
    • Remove Exeggutor from C&C
    • Both 2HKOed by Choice Specs Water Spout
    • I'd like Ludicolo to be higher up in C&C
    • Muk??
    • If you're going to mention switch-ins to Octillery's Water Spout, mention Water-immune mons there, not lower down see: lapras, seismitoad (loses to eball but if you predict it, you go to something that beats octillery and take eball, but cannot take water spout) etc
  19. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    okay that was quite a bit

    implemented gp check

    implemented qc changes

    muk stays for now blame raseri
  20. deluge

    deluge

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    I didn't see it mentioned but Octillery picked up Hydro Pump as a level-up move in BW2. So that's always an option over Surf (accuracy vs power).
  21. xenu

    xenu just another kid chillposting at the laundromat...
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    amcheck done (purple text is for comments)

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    could a certified GPer please read over it and stamp? thanks.
  22. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    im gonna say no because the whole point of surf is to be reliable and having two unreliable stabs just flatout sucks
  23. deluge

    deluge

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    What I meant was that it should probably be mentioned. It is a viable water STAB intermediate between Water Spout and Surf. It could replace either Water STAB in sets with both and it's far more likely to be used than Haze, Flail, Acid Spray and a bunch of other moves brought up in OO. Hydro Pump always has 80% of the power of a fully powered Water Spout in exchange for imperfect accuracy. So when I did a Ctrl-F on the analysis and did not see Hydro Pump at all it seemed like an oversight (esp. since it's a BW2-exclusive move). I guess it wasn't an overight but a deliberate omission. Ah well, your call.
  24. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    hmm thats convincing and btw i did not know that octillery got hydro pump. adding into oo with scald which is already there.

    EDIT: @xenu: i cant implement that check really so much of that is writers preference that just no.
  25. xenu

    xenu just another kid chillposting at the laundromat...
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    you can implement it selectively but a gper is supposed to correct you not only on grammar but on style and form too; would it be easier if i made you a copypastable?

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