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Octillery [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Kingler12345, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    [Overview]
    <p>As a Water-type Pokemon, Octillery is mostly outclassed by Pokemon such as Gorebyss and Seismitoad, and is therefore very rarely seen in the tier. Fortunately, it does have great offenses backed by a powerful STAB Hydro Pump , meaning that it can do huge damage to most opponents, and a wide coverage movepool, meaning that would-be checks need to think twice before switching in; unlike other Water-types, Octillery can hit Water-, Grass-, and Dragon-types for massive damage with the appropriate coverage move. However, it isn't particularly bulky and its Speed is disappointingly low, meaning it will always have to take a hit before being able to strike back.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Modest
    evs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is, quite simply, Octillery's best set, as Octillery really needs the raw power provided by Choice Specs to break through certain threats. This extra power is especially important for securing the OHKO on Skuntank and Gardevoir after Stealth Rock with Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is the main move on this set and hits most Pokemon that don't resist it hard. Ice Beam hits Flying- and Dragon-types for good damage while hitting Grass-types accurately. Energy Ball gives important coverage against Seismitoad as well as other Water-types, although Hydro Pump hit many Water-types reasonably hard as well. Fire Blast is on this set to hit important Grass-types such as Ludicolo (it does over 50% damage to Rain Dance variants, which, along with Stealth Rock, is good enough to make sure they don't get a free switch-in).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Specs is the only option on the main set for the reasons stated above. Life Orb is definitely a good alternative, though, as while it might miss out on the previously mentioned important KOs, it allows Octillery to switch around moves, therefore making better use of its brilliant coverage. Keep in mind that Life Orb is more hazard-reliant, while Choice Specs is more prediction-reliant. The EVs let Octillery outspeed Alomomola, which it can 2HKO with Energy Ball. Although Sniper is the recommended ability, as the results can be devastating for the opponent if the Octillery user gets lucky, Suction Cups is also a choice on Baton Pass teams where Octillery can make use of Speed boosts from the likes of Ninjask and Special Attack boosts from other Baton Passers. A Life Orb or Expert Belt set is more suited to Baton Pass teams, as is Water Spout, which is a great option here to spam when Octillery is at full health. Pokemon that set up entry hazards, such as Golem and Roselia, make for good partners as well. The two also have the added benefit of being able to switch into Electric-type attacks with impunity, but do note that Golem shares a weakness to Grass with Octillery. Roselia is particularly effective, as it can take down the Grass-types that threaten Octillery with their STAB moves as well. Trick Room is great for Octillery, as it can "outspeed" most Pokemon under it and start firing off strong special attacks; for this reason, Duosion and Musharna make for good partners. If Octillery is being used under Trick Room, a Quiet nature along with 0 Speed IVs should be used.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Although Water Spout might seem tempting, Octillery is slow and not really bulky, meaning that it will almost always go last and will quickly reach the point where Hydro Pump deals more damage. Thunder Wave seems appealing to slow down switch-ins and blast them with an appropriate coverage move, but Octillery is rather frail and has a four-moveslot syndrome. Acid Spray lowers the opponent's Special Defense, but Octillery is better off attacking in the meantime. Signal Beam can be used to hit Ludicolo for massive damage on the switch-in, having a small chance to OHKO Rain Dance variants and doing a respectable chunk to specially defensive variants. A physical set consisting of a variety of moves including Waterfall, Seed Bomb, and Rock Blast is a possibility, but not really viable, as said moves are either not very powerful or unreliable.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most special walls can take on Octillery rather well but must beware of switching directly into Hydro Pump; not much wants to take two Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pumps. Grass-types can take Octillery on rather easily if they switch into Hydro Pump; Roselia in particular can incapacitate the switch-in with Sleep Powder or set up Spikes as Octillery flees. Both Rain Dance and specially defensive variants of Ludicolo are great checks to Octillery, being able to switch into all of its moves, force it out with Giga Drain, or in the case of the Rain Dance set, even set up Rain Dance while it switches out; keep in mind that Rain Dance variants take upwards of 50% damage from Fire Blast, though. RestTalk Mantine can wall Octillery to hell and back, being only 3HKOed 6.98% of the time by Ice Beam after Stealth Rock&mdash;and that is for physically defensive variants! Water-types such as Alomomola and Seismitoad hate coming in on Energy Ball, but Octillery rarely uses it and is usually Choice-locked into another move, making them reliable as checks. Altaria and Dragonair can wall Octillery that don't run Ice Beam and can come in on any other Choice-locked attack from those that do.</p>

    <p>On most teams, checking Octillery offensively is more feasible than trying to wall it. If all else fails, strong attacks such as Choice Band Sawk's Close Combat and Choice Specs Charizard's Hidden Power Grass (after Stealth Rock damage) can easily send the octopus back to the depths of the sea where it came from. Using Grass- and Electric-type STAB moves from the likes of Tangela and Eelektross is an easy way to put a stop to Octillery's antics, as they can easily OHKO it.</p>
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  2. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    The Trick Room mention belongs in AC, Octillery doesn't actually learn Trick Room itself. It is supposed to be a mention of a Trick Room teammate or two (maybe not a whole team based around it ofc). The Speed EVs are meant to outspeed min Speed Alomomola, which Eebeltross (and probably a few other Pokemon) happens to aim for as well.
  3. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Wait, damn... I could've sworn someone mentioned Octillery can learn Trick Room in one of the last threads, my bad for not checking... Ok, then.
  4. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast formerly Brawlfest
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    Yeah definitely remove Regice as it isn't a reliable check at all.

    As for the Specs thing I actually wouldn't mind seeing LO at least slashed in because Octillery can make much better use of its great coverage with the ability to switch moves. That said though the boost from Specs is actually pretty significant:

    252+ SpA Life Orb Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 176 SpD Skuntank: 282-333 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 176 SpD Skuntank: 324-382 (93.3 - 110%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Life Orb Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gardevoir: 212-251 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gardevoir: 246-289 (88.8 - 104.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Life Orb Octillery Energy Ball vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 289-341 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Octillery Energy Ball vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 330-390 (86.6 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    etc, etc.

    Basically while Specs is more prediction reliant, LO is more hazard reliant. For now I think you should just slash LO with Specs and rename the set to "All-Out Attacker" or something. Implement this and I'll probably do a full check later Kingler12345

    edit: Also just a little heads-up but would you mind going through your other analyses and removing all mentions of Jynx + Scolipede? Thx :)
  5. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Dat Blast I'll go through my other analyses etc; I kinda lost motivation for analyses but I guess I have free time so n_n
    Anywho, idk about Life Orb; I'll see QC's consensus on it before moving on, seeing how this was QCed twice earlier.
  6. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
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    While it is nice to be able to switch up moves with LO, the power that it lose can be problematic against some Pokemon like Dat Blast pointed out.

    Most of the time when bringing Octillery in, it get to KO one Pokemon before being forced out, choice locked or not; Octillery is simply not bulky nor fast enough to take multiple hits. I could also argue that the Life Orb recoil combined with entry hazard will rack up quickly and leave it into KO range from a lot of faster Pokemon (which are not rare).

    Life Orb still has its merits though; it is more scary against slower team thanks to its good coverage.

    TLDR I wouldn't slash it, but I would give Life Orb a mention in AC about its pros/cons.

    Kingler12345
    WhiteDMist likes this.
  7. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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  8. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast formerly Brawlfest
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    [Overview]
    • I think you should expand on its coverage a bit, since it's pretty much the only thing that gives it a niche; it can hit Water resists much harder than its competition while its Hydro Pump hits extremely hard as well.
    • Definitely don't say Octillery's typing "doesn't give it many threats to switch in on," as Water-types are actually great defensively (Alomomola, for example, can pivot in vs. even Specs Charizard and special Samurott solely because of its Water typing). If anything it's Octillery's poor bulk and butt-slow Speed that prevents it from switching in.
    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Rearrange the sentences so they talk about the moves in order. I.e. First Hydro, then Ice Beam, EBall, FBlast.
    • I'd remove the mention of FBlast hitting Metang, since Hydro 2HKOes anyway and Metang isn't as relevant anymore with the banning of Jynx.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Like I said LO makes better use of the "coverage" aspect than Specs so I'd just say Specs gives Octillery maximum power.
    • I'd remove the bit about stacking Grass weaknesses, as Octillery shouldn't be switching into attacks in the first place. I'd replace that with a mention that Golem can absorb Electric-type moves aimed at Octillery.
    • Don't forget to mention a Quiet nature + 0 IVs with Trick Room.
    Implement Kingler12345 and I'll check again later.
  9. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Dat Blast but then again something like tangela will fuck half your team up and force it to switch so I think the Grass weaknesses point is relevant; Octillery might not be switching in, but it is still forced out by grasses. Speaking of which, I'm thinking of adding Tangela to C&C. Anyway, implemented.
  10. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
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    252+ SpA Choice Specs Octillery Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 402-474 (120.72 - 142.34%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Octillery Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 318-376 (95.49 - 112.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 150-177 (45.04 - 53.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Kingler12345 Tangela is def not a counter (or a check). The only move it can switch into is Energy Ball lol.
  11. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Oh, lol. I hadn't actually calced but in theory tangy seemed good to pivot in and stuff... my bad.
  12. Alonsoforever

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    I mentioned this in the previous thread, give Suction Cups a mention in OO, because thanks to it, its great offensive stats, and its great coverage, Octillery makes one of the best Baton Pass receivers in the game. It's true that Baton Pass isn't very common, but Octillery is one of the best recipients. (And with the Speed it can get with Ninjask, and the Special Attack it can get from Volbeat, you have a monstruous Water Spout!)
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  13. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast formerly Brawlfest
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    Actually Suction Cups could even be the ability for the main set over Sniper, as it allows Octillery to switch in on a bunch of common(ish) phazers like Bastiodon, Throh, Zweilous, etc. and 2HKO all of them with the correct move. It's somewhat situational, but it's not as luck based as Sniper. Baton Pass support I guess could go somewhere??? But idk

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • On the Ice Beam sentence don't say it's "redundant" with FBlast just because both hit Grass-types. I'd just say Ice Beam hits them reliably while FBlast hits them harder.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Okay so it's fine to mention Golem + Octillery stack Grass weaknesses but I don't like your wording, since by saying it's "not advisable" it sounds like Golem shouldn't be used as a partner. I'd reword it to say "...but do note that Golem shares a weakness to Grass with Octillery."
    • Also you mention that Rose resists Electric twice, so get rid of the second mention.
    [Other Options]
    • On the TWave mention don't say it's too slow to use it since the given EV spread reaches an effective 668 Speed vs. a paralyzed mon. Instead mention frailty + 4MSS.
    • Add Signal Beam to snipe Ludicolo but that's pretty much all it hits.
    Add and I'll check Kingler12345
  14. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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  15. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast formerly Brawlfest
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    You don't have to specifically point out its defensive typing, just say "However, its Speed is disappointingly low and it isn't particularly bulky, meaning it will always have to take a hit before being able to strike back."

    QC 3/3 Kingler12345
  16. melvni

    melvni
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    Additions in Blue
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    [Overview]

    <p>Octillery is mostly outclassed as a Water-type Pokemon by Pokemon such as Gorebyss and Seismitoad, which is why it is very rarely seen in the tier. It has great offenses backed by a powerful STAB Hydro Pump, meaning that it can do huge damage to most opponents, and has a wide coverage movepool aside from having a powerful STAB move in Hydro Pump, meaning that would-be checks need to think twice before switching in; unlike other Water-types, it can hit Water-, Grass-, and Dragon-types for massive damage with the appropriate coverage move. However, its Speed is disappointingly low and it isn't particularly bulky and its Speed is disappointingly low, meaning it will always have to take a hit before being able to strike back.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Modest
    evs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is, quite simply, Octillery's best set, as Octillery really needs the raw power provided by Choice Specs to break through walls certain threats (or something that more accurately reflects what you mean here, Gardevoir and Skuntank aren't walls). This extra power is especially important for securing the OHKO on Skuntank and Gardevoir after Stealth Rock with Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is the main move on this set, (remove comma) and hits most Pokemon that don't resist it hard. Ice Beam hits Flying- and Dragon-types for good damage, while hitting and hits Grass-types accurately. Energy Ball gives coverage against Seismitoad, most importantly, as well as other Water-types, although Hydro Pump hits them reasonably hard as well. Fire Blast is on this set to hit important Grass-types such as Ludicolo (it does over 50% damage to Rain Dance variants, which, along with Stealth Rock, is good enough to make sure it doesn't they don't get a free switch-in).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Specs is the only option on the main set, as it makes perfect use of Octillery's great base 105 Special Attack as well as coverage for the reasons stated above. Life Orb is definitely a good alternative, though, as while it might miss out on the previously mentioned important KOs, it allows Octillery to switch around moves, therefore making better use of its brilliant coverage. Keep in mind that Life Orb is more hazard-reliant, while Choice Specs is more prediction-reliant. The EVs let it Octillery outspeed Alomomola, which Octillery it can 2HKO with Energy Ball. Although Sniper is the recommended ability, as the results can be devastating if the Octillery user gets lucky, Suction Cups is also a choice on Baton Pass teams, (remove comma) where Octillery can make use of Speed boosts from the likes of Ninjask, (remove comma) as well as Special Attack boosts from other Baton Passers Pass users. A Life Orb or Expert Belt set is more suited to Baton Pass teams, and as is Water Spout (add comma) which is a great option here to spam when Octillery is at full health. Pokemon that set up entry hazards, such as Golem and Roselia, make for good partners, both of them switching into Electric-type attacks with impunity, but do note that Golem shares a weakness to Grass with Octillery. Roselia is particularly effective, as it can take down the Grass-types that threaten Octillery with their STAB moves as well. Trick Room is great for Octillery so that as it can "outspeed" most Pokemon under it and start firing off strong special attacks; for this reason, Duosion and Musharna make for good partners. If Octillery is being used under Trick Room, a Quiet nature along with 0 Speed IVs should be used.</p>

    [Other Options]

    Although Water Spout might seem tempting, Hydro Pump is better because Octillery is slow and not really bulky, meaning that it will almost always go last; it, therefore, will often outdamage Water Spout by the time it attacks it will often have taken enough damage that Hydro Pump will be the more powerful option [OR/OR] it will almost always go last and will quickly reach the point where Hydro Pump deals more damage (or something else you prefer here). Thunder Wave seems appealing to slow down switch-ins and blast them with an appropriate coverage move, but Octillery is rather frail and has a four-moveslot syndrome. Acid Spray lowers the opponent's Special Defense, but Octillery is better off attacking in the meantime. Signal Beam can be used to hit Ludicolo for massive damage on the switch-in, having a small chance to OHKO Rain Dance variants while and doing a respectable chunk to specially defensive variants. A physical set consisting of a variety of moves including Waterfall, Seed Bomb, and Rock Blast is a possibility, but not really feasible viable, as said moves are either not very powerful or unreliable.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most special walls can take on Octillery rather well, (remove comma) but must beware of switching directly into Hydro Pump; not much wants to take two Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pumps from it. Grass-types such as Roselia can take Octillery on rather easily if they switch into Hydro Pump; Roselia in particular can incapacitate the switch-in with Sleep Powder or set up Spikes as Octillery flees from it, making Roselia even more of an effective choice. Both Rain Dance and specially defensive variants of Ludicolo are great checks to Octillery, being able to switch into all of its moves, force it out with Giga Drain, or in the case of the Rain Dance set, even set up Rain Dance while it switches out; keep in mind that Rain Dance variants take upwards of 50% damage from Fire Blast, though. RestTalk Mantine can wall Octillery to hell and back, being only 3HKOed 6.98% of the time by Ice Beam after Stealth Rock&mdash;and that is for physically defensive variants! Water-types such as Alomomola and Seismitoad hate coming in on Energy Ball, but Octillery will rarely be using it and will usually be Choice-locked into another move, making them reliable as checks. Altaria and Dragonair can wall Octillery that lack Ice Beam and even if it carries it, they can come in on any other Choice-locked attack against those that do.</p>

    <p>On most teams, checking Octillery offensively is more feasible than trying to wall it. If all else fails, strong attacks such as Choice Band Sawk's Close Combat and Choice Specs Charizard's Hidden Power Grass (after Stealth Rock damage) can easily send the octopus it back to the depths of the sea where it came from. Using Grass- and Electric-type STAB moves from the likes of Tangela and Eelektross is an easy way to put a stop to Octillery's antics, as they can easily OHKO it.</p>


    GP: 1/2
  17. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Thanks for the check, melvni! I didn't change "while hitting" to "and hits" because there was repetition in sentences and imo "the octopus" is fine; using nicknames isn't a big deal when used only once throughout an analysis.
    Ready for #2!
  18. Blue Frog

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    [Overview]
    <p>Octillery is mostly outclassed as a Water-type Pokemon by Pokemon such as Gorebyss and Seismitoad, which is why and so it is very rarely seen in the tier. It has great offenses backed by a powerful STAB Hydro Pump, meaning that it can do huge damage to most opponents, and a wide coverage movepool, meaning that would-be checks need to think twice before switching in; unlike other Water-types, it Octillery can hit Water-, Grass-, and Dragon-types for massive damage with the appropriate coverage move. However, it isn't particularly bulky and its Speed is disappointingly low, meaning it will always have to take a hit before being able to strike back.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Modest
    evs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is, quite simply, Octillery's best set, as Octillery really needs the raw power provided by Choice Specs to break through certain threats. This extra power is especially important for securing the OHKO on Skuntank and Gardevoir after Stealth Rock with Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is the main move on this set and hits most Pokemon that don't resist it hard. Ice Beam hits Flying- and Dragon-types for good damage,(RC) while hitting Grass-types accurately. Energy Ball gives important coverage against Seismitoad, most importantly,(RC) as well as other Water-types, although Hydro Pump hits them many Water-types reasonably hard as well. Fire Blast is on this set to hit important Grass-types such as Ludicolo (it does over 50% damage to Rain Dance variants, which, along with Stealth Rock, is good enough to make sure they don't get a free switch-in).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Specs is the only option on the main set for the reasons stated above. Life Orb is definitely a good alternative, though, as while it might miss out on the previously mentioned important KOs, it allows Octillery to switch around moves, therefore making better use of its brilliant coverage. Keep in mind that Life Orb is more hazard-reliant, while Choice Specs is more prediction-reliant. The EVs let Octillery outspeed Alomomola, which it can 2HKO with Energy Ball. Although Sniper is the recommended ability, as the results can be devastating if the Octillery user gets lucky a critical hit, Suction Cups is also a choice on Baton Pass teams where Octillery can make use of Speed boosts from the likes of Ninjask as well as and Special Attack boosts from other Baton Passers. A Life Orb or Expert Belt set is more suited to Baton Pass teams, as is Water Spout, which is a great option here to spam when Octillery is at full health. Pokemon that set up entry hazards, such as Golem and Roselia, make for good partners, both of them switching into Electric-type attacks with impunity, but do note that Golem shares a weakness to Grass with Octillery. Roselia is particularly effective, as it can take down the Grass-types that threaten Octillery with their STAB moves as well. Trick Room is great for Octillery, as it can "outspeed" most Pokemon under it and start firing off strong special attacks; for this reason, Duosion and Musharna make for good partners. If Octillery is being used under Trick Room, a Quiet nature along with 0 Speed IVs should be used.</p>

    [Other Options]

    Although Water Spout might seem tempting, Octillery is slow and not really bulky, meaning that it will almost always go last and will quickly reach the point where Hydro Pump deals more damage. Thunder Wave seems appealing to slow down switch-ins and blast them with an appropriate coverage move, but Octillery is rather frail and has a four-moveslot syndrome. Acid Spray lowers the opponent's Special Defense, but Octillery is better off attacking in the meantime. Signal Beam can be used to hit Ludicolo for massive damage on the switch-in, having a small chance to OHKO Rain Dance variants and doing a respectable chunk to specially defensive variants. A physical set consisting of a variety of moves including Waterfall, Seed Bomb, and Rock Blast is a possibility, but not really viable, as said moves are either not very powerful or unreliable.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most special walls can take on Octillery rather well but must beware of switching directly into Hydro Pump; not much wants to take two Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pumps. Grass-types can take Octillery on rather easily if they switch into Hydro Pump; Roselia in particular can incapacitate the switch-in with Sleep Powder or set up Spikes as Octillery flees. Both Rain Dance and specially defensive variants of Ludicolo are great checks to Octillery, being able to switch into all of its moves, force it out with Giga Drain, or in the case of the Rain Dance set, even set up Rain Dance while it switches out; keep in mind that Rain Dance variants take upwards of 50% damage from Fire Blast, though. RestTalk Mantine can wall Octillery to hell and back, being only 3HKOed 6.98% of the time by Ice Beam after Stealth Rock&mdash;and that is for physically defensive variants! Water-types such as Alomomola and Seismitoad hate coming in on Energy Ball, but Octillery will rarely be using it rarely uses it and will usually be is usually Choice-locked into another move, making them the two reliable as checks. Altaria and Dragonair can wall Octillery that lack don't run Ice Beam and can come in on any other Choice-locked attack against from those that do.</p>

    <p>On most teams, checking Octillery offensively is more feasible than trying to wall it. If all else fails, strong attacks such as Choice Band Sawk's Close Combat and Choice Specs Charizard's Hidden Power Grass (after Stealth Rock damage) can easily send the octopus back to the depths of the sea where it came from. Using Grass- and Electric-type STAB moves from the likes of Tangela and Eelektross is an easy way to put a stop to Octillery's antics, as they can easily OHKO it.</p>
  19. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Changing 'most importantly' and adding 'importantly' earlier was quite subjective and I had meant for it to apply to Seismitoad only, but your rewording works. Them->the two was quite weird as a change so I didn't implement that. Some of your stuff wasn't completely necessary and subjective, but they did make the wording better. Thanks for the amcheck!
  20. Electrolyte

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    [Overview]
    <p>As a Water-type Pokemon, Octillery is mostly outclassed as a Water-type Pokemon by Pokemon such as Gorebyss and Seismitoad, and so it is therefore very rarely seen in the tier. Fortunately, it does has have great offenses backed by a powerful STAB Hydro Pump and a wide coverage movepool, meaning that it can do huge damage to most opponents and force would-be checks , and a wide coverage movepool, meaning that would-be checks need to think twice before switching in; unlike other Water-types, Octillery can hit Water-, Grass-, and Dragon-types for massive damage with the appropriate coverage move. However, it isn't particularly bulky and its Speed is disappointingly low, making meaning it almost will always have to take a hit before being able to strike back.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Energy Ball
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Modest
    evs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is, quite simply, Octillery's best set, as Octillery really needs the raw power provided by Choice Specs to break through certain threats. This extra power is especially important for securing the OHKO on Skuntank and Gardevoir after Stealth Rock with Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is the main move on this set and hits most Pokemon that don't resist it hard. Ice Beam hits Flying- and Dragon-types for good damage while hitting Grass-types accurately. Energy Ball gives important coverage against Seismitoad as well as other Water-types, although Hydro Pump hit many Water-types reasonably hard as well. Fire Blast is on this set to hit important Grass-types such as Ludicolo, dealing (it does over 50% damage to Rain Dance variants, which, along with Stealth Rock, is good enough to make sure they don't it doesn't get a free switch-in).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Specs is the only option on the main set for the reasons stated above. Life Orb is definitely a good alternative, though, as while it might miss out on the previously mentioned important KOs, it allows Octillery to switch around moves, therefore making better use of its brilliant coverage. Keep in mind that Life Orb is more hazard-reliant, while Choice Specs is more prediction-reliant. The EVs let Octillery outspeed Alomomola, which it can 2HKO with Energy Ball. Although Sniper is the recommended ability, as the results can be devastating for the opponent if the Octillery user gets lucky, Suction Cups is also a choice on Baton Pass teams where Octillery can make use of Speed boosts from the likes of Ninjask and Special Attack boosts from other Baton Passers. A Life Orb or Expert Belt set is more suited to Baton Pass teams, as is Water Spout, which is a great option here to spam when Octillery is at full health. Pokemon that set up entry hazards, such as Golem and Roselia, make for good partners as well. The two also have the added benefit of being able to switch , both of them switching into Electric-type attacks with impunity, but do note that Golem shares a weakness to Grass with Octillery. Roselia is particularly effective, as it can take down these Grass-types that threaten Octillery with their STAB moves as well. Trick Room is great for Octillery, as it can "outspeed" most Pokemon under it and start firing off strong special attacks; for this reason, Duosion and Musharna make for good partners. If Octillery is being used under Trick Room, a Quiet nature along with 0 Speed IVs should be used.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Although Water Spout might seem tempting, Octillery is slow and not really bulky, meaning that it will almost always go last and will quickly reach the point where Hydro Pump deals more damage. Thunder Wave seems appealing to slow down switch-ins and blast them with an appropriate coverage move, but Octillery is rather frail and has a four-moveslot syndrome. Acid Spray lowers the opponent's Special Defense, but Octillery is better off attacking in the meantime. Signal Beam can be used to hit Ludicolo for massive damage on the switch-in, having a small chance to OHKO Rain Dance variants and doing a respectable chunk to specially defensive variants. A physical set consisting of a variety of moves including Waterfall, Seed Bomb, and Rock Blast is a possibility, but not really viable, as said moves are either not very powerful or unreliable.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most special walls can take on Octillery rather well but must beware of switching directly into Hydro Pump; not much wants few other Pokemon want to take two Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pumps. Grass-types can take Octillery on rather easily if they switch into Hydro Pump; Roselia in particular can incapacitate the switch-in with Sleep Powder or set up Spikes as Octillery flees. Both Rain Dance and specially defensive variants of Ludicolo are great checks to Octillery, being able to switch into all of its moves, force it out with Giga Drain, or in the case of the Rain Dance set, even set up Rain Dance while it switches out; keep in mind that Rain Dance variants take upwards of 50% damage from Fire Blast, though. RestTalk Mantine can wall Octillery to hell and back, being only 3HKOed 6.98% of the time by Ice Beam after Stealth Rock&mdash;and that is for physically defensive variants! Water-types such as Alomomola and Seismitoad hate coming in on Energy Ball, but Octillery rarely uses it anyway and is usually Choice-locked into another move, making them reliable as checks. Altaria and Dragonair can wall Octillery that don't run Ice Beam and can come in on any other Choice-locked attack from those that do.</p>

    <p>On most teams, checking Octillery offensively is more feasible than trying to wall it. If all else fails, strong attacks such as Choice Band Sawk's Close Combat and Choice Specs Charizard's Hidden Power Grass (after Stealth Rock damage) can easily send the octopus back to the depths of the sea where it came from. Using Grass- and Electric-type STAB moves from the likes of Tangela and Eelektross is an easy way to put a stop to Octillery's antics, as they can easily OHKO it.</p>


    nice job Kingler12345

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    GP Approved 2/2
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  21. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    I don't agree with quite a few of these, but I can see how it's basically personal preference and rewording. Thanks!
    not ded, I see :>
    EDIT-damn my wording ;-; this is done
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  22. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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