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Oddish (LC Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Sledge, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. Sledge

    Sledge

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    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/oddish
    --------------------------------------------
    [Overview]

    <p>With the right circumstances, Oddish can be one of the best sweepers under the sun (pun intended). While Oddish has subpar stats compared to many of the other sweepers in Little Cup, it does have something going for it: Chlorophyll. Sunny Day lets Oddish outpace most of the Little Cup metagame, and gives it a great STAB option in Solarbeam. While Bellsprout may do a better job of sweeping in the sun, Oddish is certainly capable of it, and should not be overlooked.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Sunny Day
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Sunny Day
    move 3: SolarBeam
    move 4: Synthesis
    item: Oran Berry / Heat Rock
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Modest
    evs: 156 HP / 236 SpA / 116 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set focuses on Oddish's overall good defenses, very high Special Attack, and very good Speed with Sunny Day up. Typically seen playing a support role on a Sunny Day team, this set also packs a punch, capable of busting holes in the opponent's team and making it easier for other sweepers to plow through the rest of the team.</p>

    <p>Sleep Powder is an excellent support move as it can cripple potential counters to Sunny Day teams, such as Munchlax or Snover. Sunny Day is a fairly self explanatory move, helping out Oddish as well as the rest of the team. SolarBeam hits very hard with 120 Base Power backed by STAB and a Special Attack stat of 18. Synthesis is an excellent move with Sunny Day up and a bulky EV spread because Oddish will be able to restore two-thirds of its health in one turn, making it tough to take down if you don't pack a super effective move.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Oran Berry is generally the better option on this set, possibly giving Oddish a free turn to use Sunny Day, Sleep Powder, and so forth, while maintaining relatively high HP. Heat Rock is also a viable option, however, since it gives your team 3 extra turns of Sunny Day for sweeping.</p>

    <p>Pokemon that sweep well under Sunny Day are usually the best partners to this set because Oddish does a good job of supporting them and making it easier for them to sweep. Some examples of good Sunny Day sweepers would be Bellsprout, Exeggcute, Houndour, or Ponyta. Houndour and Ponyta are also notable because Oddish draws Fire-type attacks, which they can both switch into for free, making their already boosted Fire-type attacks even stronger.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sunny Day Sweeper
    move 1: SolarBeam
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Sunny Day / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 SpA / 200 Spe
    ivs: 3 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>If you were to use Oddish as a regular sweeper without Sunny Day, you would undoubtedly be underwhelmed by its very low Speed (and low stats in general). However, with Sunny Day up, Oddish becomes a very dangerous threat. Chlorophyll makes up for Oddish's lack of Speed by doubling its Speed under Sunny Day; couple this with Oddish's high Special Attack, and you'll find a powerful sweeper. Backed by Life Orb, Oddish can fire off very powerful STAB attacks that not many Pokemon can take.</p>

    <p>SolarBeam should be the primary attacking move on this set, and with 120 Base Power behind it, opposing Pokemon will have a tough time switching in on Oddish. Sludge Bomb is also a great option thanks to its high Base Power and STAB. Hidden Power Fire is great on this set because all Fire-type moves are boosted by Sunny Day, not to mention that Hidden Power Fire rounds off nicely what would otherwise be poor coverage. Oddish has a shallow special movepool, so Sunny Day is the best option in the fourth slot, not only to support itself, but the rest of the team as well. Sleep Powder also works well because it lets Oddish incapacitate its counters and continue to sweep.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>A Pokemon that works well with this set is Houndour, thanks to its resistances to several of Oddish's weaknesses, particularly Fire-type moves. Houndour can switch in on Pokemon that threaten Oddish, like Snover or Ponyta, and force them out (possibly netting a Flash Fire boost in the process). This Oddish set works best on a team built around Sunny Day so that Oddish isn't forced to set up Sunny Day for itself, which can be difficult because of how fragile Oddish is. Good candidates to set up Sunny Day include, but are not limited to: Aipom, Bellsprout, Growlithe, Drifloon, Exeggute, Koffing, and Duskull.</p>

    <p>The EVs on the set have been adjusted to account for Hidden Power Fire, so if you decide not to use it, you should adjust your EVs accordingly. The reason for the special IVs on this set are so that Oddish only takes 1 HP of Life Orb recoil, making it bulkier in the long run.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Oddish typically functions best on teams where other Pokemon use and abuse Sunny Day. This is because other Pokemon can give Oddish the support it needs and allow it to focus on sweeping. Some common Pokemon on Sunny Day teams are: Houndour, Bellsprout, Growlithe, Exeggute, Munchlax, Magby, Aipom, Duskull, Drifloon, Koffing, and Ponyta. All of these Pokemon make excellent Oddish teammates, so use whichever Pokemon suits your needs.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Sleep Powder is a good alternate choice on this set because it can cripple Oddish's counters and allow Oddish to continue sweeping from there. However, if you choose to do this it wastes a turn of sun, and Oddish loses precious coverage if you choose to use it over an attack move. Different Hidden Powers can also be used on this set; however, Hidden Power Fire is far and away the best choice.</p>

    <p>Oddish is also capable of running a double powder set with Stun Spore and Sleep Powder; however, it is largely outclassed by other double powder users, such as Venonat and Paras.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>With Sunny Day on the field, Oddish can be suprisingly hard to counter, obtaining excellent type coverage on most of the metagame. Munchlax is probably Oddish's best counter, being able to take all of its attacks and OHKO with either Fire Punch or Return. Snover is able to switch in on a supected SolarBeam, and either outspeed or just kill Oddish with Ice Shard. Revenge killing Oddish can be a bit easier thanks to priority attacks and fast Choice Scarf users. Croagunk is a good option to revenge kill Oddish, being able to KO it with Fake Out + Sucker Punch and stall Sunny Day turns in the meantime. However, Croagunk can be hurt a bit too, because Sunny Day damages Croagunk. 27+ Speed Choice Scarfers are good for revenge killing Oddish thanks to Oddish's low defenses and mere 26 Speed (in the sun). Examples of these would include Gastly, Gligar, Abra, or Ponyta.</p>
  2. Towelie

    Towelie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
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    Looks good but talk about how Snover can come in on a predicted Solarbeam and change the weather to Hail which makes Solarbeam a two turn move. Snover can then finish it with Blizzard or Ice Shard. Growlithe and Houndour pretty much counter it. And Sleep Powder > Sunny Day imo. Sunny Day doesn't seem like it'd be used much because Oddish isn't bulky. Sleep Powder can disable a counter (munchlax, houndour, growlithe, etc.) and then continue it's sweep because it seems like most teams would only have a couple of checks to this, and sleeping one can allow Oddish to continue it's sweep. And even if you use Sleep Powder, you still have 6 turns of sun after switching in from your Sunny day setter upper.
  3. Despotar

    Despotar

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    you might mention Houndour (Specifically scarfed) as a good teammate, as it has good Syenergy, being able to switch into most oddish's weakness's, and hit it's counters super effectively. (I.E Other Houndour, Snover, etc.)
    Also, I agree that you defiantly want another poke to set up sunny day, as sleep powder makes this a even more potent sweeper.
  4. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    nitpick: you can't have 0 HP and hp fire

    0 HP gives Dragon 69 iirc so check for a 0 HP HP Fire
  5. Kannon

    Kannon

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    Nov 2, 2008
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    344
    There's a bulkier spread heysup used before, with solar beam/synthesis/sleep powder/sunny day to open holes for his sun team and be generally annoying with it's bulk. A set like that would differentiate it from the superior bellsprout at the very least.
  6. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Oddishes best set in my opinion. It's special sun set is pretty well outclassed by Bellsprout too...I may add. It's faster and has Weather Ball.
  7. Sledge

    Sledge

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    okay, I'll add the bulky sun set, but I don't see any reason to remove the current one, because even though it is is a bit outclassed by bellsprout (oddish does have an extra point in SpA though) chances are you're going to have both of them on the same team and not just one.
  8. Rayquaza2233

    Rayquaza2233

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    Not GP, but proofreading. Changes in bold.

    Granted, I don't think my revisions were perfect, as I am not GP.
  9. Sledge

    Sledge

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    Oct 10, 2009
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    Okay added the Bulky sun set so yeah. Thanks for the check Rayquaza2233, I'll probably put those in after this gets through QC.
  10. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    5,571
  11. Phantom_IV

    Phantom_IV

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    Grammar nitpicks:

    "Oddish can be one of the best sweepers under the sun" seems more natural.

    "Croagunk is a good option to revenge Oddish, as is can KO it with a combination of Fake Out + Sucker Punch and stall Sunny Day turns in the process. However, Croagunk takes damage in the sun and has to beware of getting hit by Sleep Powder on the predicted Sucker Punch." - corrects the it/if issue in the middle and flows better.
  12. Tayla

    Tayla

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    Sep 4, 2008
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    "Sleep Powder is an excellent support move as it can cripple potential counters such as, Munchlax or Snover that can potentially be major threats to Sunny Day teams."

    There should be no comma infront of Munchlax.
  13. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    [​IMG]

    Approving. I've used Oddish on my Sunny Day teams and have sound it quite effective. Also, according to Shoddy it gets Teeter Dance, and with Stun Spore, it can run parafusion. So I guess that can be OC.
  14. DJXO9

    DJXO9

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
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    GP Check 1 / 2

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>With the right circumstances, Oddish can make be one of the best sweepers under the sun (pun intended). While Oddish has subpar stats compared to many of the other sweepers in Little Cup, Oddish does have something going for it: Chlorophyll. Sunny Day lets Oddish outpace most of the Little Cup metagame, and gives it a great option for STAB in Solarbeam. While Bellsprout may do a bit better job of sun sweeping in the sun, Oddish is certainly capable of it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Sunny Day
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Sunny Day
    move 3: SolarBeam
    move 4: Synthesis
    item: Oran Berry / Heat Rock
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Modest
    evs: 156 HP / 236 SAtk / 116 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set focuses on Oddish's overall good defenses along with very high Special Attack and very good Speed with Sunny Day up. Typically playing a support role on a Sunny Day team, this set also packs a punch. Oddish is capable of busting holes in the opponents team, (comma) making it easier for other sweepers to plow through the rest of the team.</p>

    <p>Sleep Powder is an excellent support move as it can cripple potential counters to Sunny Day teams such as, (omit comma) Munchlax or Snover that can potentially be major threats to Sunny Day teams. Sunny Day is a fairly self explanitory explanatory move, helping Oddish out as well as the rest of the team. SolarBeam hits very hard with 120 Base Power backed by STAB and coming off 18 a Special Attack stat of 18, it will hurt anything that doesn't resist it badly and even some things that do. Synthesis is an excellent move with Sunny Day up and a bulky spread because Oddish will be able to restore two thirds two-thirds of its health making it a doozy to take down if you don't pack a super effective move.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Oran Berry is generally the better option on this set, possibly giving Oddish a free turn to use Sunny Day, Sleep Powder etc. and so forth, while maintaining relatively high HP. Heat Rock is also a viable option, (comma) however, since it gives you 3 extra turns of Sunny Day for sweeping.</p>

    <p>Pokemon that sweep well under Sunny Day are usually the best partners to this set because Oddish does a good job of supporting them and making it easier for them to sweep. Some examples of good Sunny Day sweepers would be Bellsprout, Exeggcute, Houndour, (comma) or Ponyta. Houndour and Ponyta are also notable because Oddish invites Fire-type attacks which they can both switch into easily, (comma) making their already boosted Fire-type attacks even stronger.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sunny Day Sweeper
    move 1: SolarBeam
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Sunny Day / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 SpA / 200 Spe
    ivs: 3 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>If you were to use Oddish just as a regular sweeper without Sunny Day, you would undoubtedly be underwhelmed by its very low Speed, and low stats in general. However, with Sunny Day up, Oddish becomes a very dangerous threat. Chlorophyll makes up for Oddish's lack of Speed and while it actually has very good Special Attack to go along with the boosted Speed. And backed Backed by Life Orb, Oddish can fire off very powerful STAB attacks that not many Pokemon can take.</p>

    <p>Solarbeam SolarBeam should be the primary attacking move on this set, and with 120 Base Power behind it, it's not hard to see why. Sludge Bomb is also a great option thanks to its high Base Power and STAB. Hidden Power Fire is great on this set because all Fire-type moves are boosted by Sunny Day. Not , not to mention that Hidden Power Fire rounds off nicely what would otherwise be poor coverage. Oddish has a shallow special movepool, so Sunny Day is the best option in the fourth slot, not only to support itself, but for the rest of the team as well. Sleep Powder also works well because in it can let Oddish incapacitate its counters and continue to sweep.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>A Pokemon that works well with this set it Houndour, thanks to being able to resist several of Oddish's weaknesses, particularly Fire-type moves. Once Houndour is in, it can threaten Pokemon that may switch in to Oddish such as Snover, not to mention that Houndour gets a boost on its main attack, Fire Blast. Houndour can switch in on Pokemon who threaten Oddish, like Snover or Ponyta, force them out, while possibly netting a Flash Fire boost in the process. This Oddish set works best on a team built around Sunny Day so that Oddish isn't forced to set up Sunny Day for itself, which can be difficult with because of how fragile Oddish is. Good canidates candidates that can set up Sunny Day include, but are not limited to: Aipom, Bellsprout, Growlithe, Drifloon, Exeggute, Koffing, and Duskull.</p>

    <p>The EVs on the set have been adjusted to account for Hidden Power Fire, so if you decide not to use it, you should adjust your EVs accordingly. The reason for the special IVs on this set if are so that Oddish only takes 1 HP of Life Orb recoil, making it bulkier in the long run.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Oddish typically functions best on teams where other Pokemon use and abuse Sunny Day. This is because other Pokemon can give Oddish the support it needs and Oddish can allow it to focus on sweeping. Some common Pokemon on Sunny Day teams are: Houndour, Bellsprout, Growlithe, Exeggute, Munchlax, Magby, Aipom, Duskull, Drifloon, Koffing, and Ponyta. </p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Sleep Powder is a good alternate choice on this set because it can cripple Oddish's counters and continue sweeping from there. However, if you choose to do this, it wastes a turn of Sun sun and you lose precious coverage if you choose to use it over an attack move. Different Hidden Powers can also be used on this set, however, Hidden Power Fire is far and away the best choice.</p>

    <p>Oddish is also capable of running a double powder set with Stun Spore and Sleep Powder, however, (comma) it is largely outclassed by other double powder users such as Venonat and Paras.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>With Sunny Day on the field, Oddish can be suprisingly hard to counter, (comma) getting such good coverage of the metagame. Munchlax is probably Oddish's best counter, being able to take all of its attacks and OHKO with either Fire Punch or Return. Snover is able to switch in on a supected SolarBeam, and either outspeed or just kill Oddish with Ice Shard. Revenge killing Oddish can be a bit easier, thanks to things like priority attacks and fast Choice Scarf users. Croagunk is a good option to revenge Oddish, being able to kill if it with Fake Out + Sucker Punch and can stall Sunny Day turns in the mean time. However, Croagunk can be hurt a bit too, (comma) because Sunny Day damages Croagunk. 27+ Speed Choice Scarfers are good for revenging Oddish thanks to being able Oddish's low defenses and mere 26 Speed (in the sun). Examples of these would include Gastly, Gligar, Abra, or Ponyta.</p>


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    [​IMG]
  15. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    GP CHECK 2/2

    pink is grammar edits
    blue is prose edits

    aside from a few grammar and prose problems, this was a very well-written analysis -- nice job.

    [​IMG]

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