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OffenCelebi

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Arcticblast, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    I'd type up a nice introduction but I'm kind of frustrated at the moment because I'm lazy, also I can't build a good team for shit anymore (except that Rain team with Moltres and Roserade, but it's a bit boring) and I'm way behind in AP Music at the end of the quarter. So yeah, offensive team based on grabbing the momentum and (hopefully) keeping it.

    Do NOT suggest that I add permaweather, Deoxys-D, or Genesect to this team.

    [pimg]251[/pimg]
    Celebi @ Tanga Berry
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 124 SDef / 108 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover
    - Psychic
    - U-turn

    My search for a non-Deoxys-D lead for an offensive team eventually led me here. This is an incredibly customized Celebi set made to do exactly what I want it to do. It doesn't put up with Genesect's OHKO crap due to Tanga Berry (with these EVs, +1 Expert Belt Genesect can't OHKO), at which point it can Recover off the damage. It almost always manages to set up Stealth Rock. Psychic deals with Breloom and Conkeldurr nicely and wards off Tentacruel. U-Turn grabs momentum and lets me get away from Deoxys-D and go to Chandelure or something.

    This set does not work on defensive teams. Trust me.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast

    Thundurus-T is a boss, and with Agility it turns into an amazing sweeper Choice Scarf makes it faster and more fabulous. Thunderbolt is for STAB. HP Ice nets pretty good coverage, and Focus Blast nails Ferrothorn. Volt Switch is a nice scouting move and pairs well with Celebi's U-Turn. The 8 HP EVs allow Thundurus-T to switch into Stealth Rock one extra time. I never thought having two Scarfers would truly work for me, but so far it's proving more useful than Agility. Thanks Eranu!

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo-Resolution @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Icy Wind

    This was originally a Rotom-W, but my lack of Speed was my downfall. Enter Keldeo. Aside from being pretty majestic, Keldeo hits like a truck, and with Secret Sword it doesn't give a fuck about your Special Defense stat unless you're Jellicent. Cue HP Electric. Icy Wind is nice for scaring the Lati twins (they're 2HKO'd) and as a last coverage move. I use Keldeo mostly to punch holes.

    [​IMG]
    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Crunch

    Another sweeper that doesn't need much explanation, but Lucario is pretty cool. Swords Dance brings its Attack to a surprisingly massive level, pretty much OHKOing popular physical walls such as Skarmory. Extremespeed is nice for faster, frail Pokemon or when I don't want to lower my defenses. Crunch hits things that resist Close Combat.

    [​IMG]
    Chandelure @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 6 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic / Hidden Power Fighting
    - Flame Charge

    Why Chandelure? Well a) it's Halloween, dammit, and b) I needed a solid Fire-type but didn't find Heatran particularly to my liking. The Ghost STAB is pretty nice too for a combo kill with Deoxys-D. Flame Charge gives a Speed boost (and almost packs a punch if I get a Flash Fire boost). Fire Blast and Shadow Ball are for coverage, and the coverage move shifts around depending on what I want to kill that day - Psychic for Tentacruel, Breloom, Conkeldurr and Terrakion; HP Fighting for Heatran, Hydreigon and something else I seem to have forgotten.

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Quick Attack

    Revenge killer, plain and simple. Most of the time when I'm using Terrakion, it's Stone Edge spam, since the threats I'm trying to revenge kill (Salamence, Volcarona [broken little fuck], Tornadus-T, etc.) are all weak to Rock. Close Combat is decent for cleanup. X-Scissor is my best bet against Lati@s and a weakened Reuniclus, and Rock Slide is a more accurate way to revenge (Brokenmoth) Volcarona Quick Attack is a nice panic button when I need to revenge a low-health threat like Venusaur or RP Landorus. Thanks Electrolyte!. Nothing more to say except that I had Garchomp here before and the change got me destroyed by a Dragonspam team.

    Threats:
    - Opposing offense: I have to get the momentum pretty quickly or I'm pretty much screwed. Against certain teams, I can simply set up with Chandelure or Thundy-T, but if it has Thunder Wave or Toxic it beats Chandelure, and Thundurus-T can't do enough damage.
    - Dragons: Bitches to handle. If I don't set up before them, I usually lose.
    - Chlorophyll users, particularly Venusaur, are big trouble. They're almost guaranteed to take something out; this is especially true with the much bulkier Venusaur.

    Possible changes:
    - Add a Skarmory for extra bulk
    - LO Roserade? I love this set but I'm not sure where I would put it.
    - Some sort of Venusaur counter

    Go.
  2. Masamune

    Masamune

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    You have a pretty massive CS Terrakion weakness yourself - it can one shot everything in this team, bar none. In order to fix this, I suggest running Bullet Punch > Extremespeed on Lucario. Although it looks like a ridiculous suggestion on the face of it, BP has a few niche advantages over ES -it smashes Gengar, something which this team has problems with (expect to see them around lately, given that it's halloween), the aforementioned Terrakion and a few other faster threats which resist/are immune to ES (CS Tyranitar comes to mind, albeit quite rare). The move's BP isn't even that much lower, when you factor in STAB.

    I run BP over ES on most Lucario sets I have, and almost all of my teams are based around it. My best balanced team focus on a Lucario with your set/BP over ES and peaked at 1988 on the ladder - needless to say, it's an underrated move which is quite effective. At least give it a go.
  3. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Never run Bullet Punch over ExtremeSpeed on Lucario. ExtremeSpeed is mandatory in order to set Lucario apart from Terrakion, and by running Bullet Punch over ExtremeSpeed, you now struggle even more against Starmie, Rotom-W, Keldeo, basically anything faster that resists Bullet Punch, of which there's at least a million. Even against Pokemon that don't resist Bullet Punch, that loss of 20 BP is going to hurt a lot (if I did my math right, ExtremeSpeed is a whole 25% more powerful than Bullet Punch, meaning you will miss out on a lot of KOs). If you really want to use Bullet Punch, run it over Crunch (you should be able to easily remove Jellicent and friends anyway), not over ExtremeSpeed. I don't get why I need to explain that at all, but it should be painfully obvious. Also, I'd just like to point out that Scarf Terrakion does not OHKO Keldeo.

    Anyway, the problem I see is that Lucario is your only Steel-type. This is a pretty big deal since most boosted Outrages do a huge chunk (Salamence's +1 Outrage does some 70% minimum or so, +2 Outrage OHKOes Lucario), so I can see anything with any Dragon being trouble. You could add a Scizor somewhere, who can take boosted Outrages and beat Terrakion (so you wouldn't need Bullet Punch on Lucario), but I'm not sure where to put it (Chandelure is the best spot I can think of putting it, but then you'd be weaker to Sun). Good luck.
  4. Eranu

    Eranu

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    Hey. Nice, original team you get there.

    I feel like Celebi isn't the best at doing what you want it to do. You might want to replace Celebi with Mew. Mew can do the things your Celebi does, only it doesn't have the 4x bug weakness, hence you don't need a Tanga Berry on Mew. You can run the exact same moves and evs on it as you do on Mew, since their base stats are the same. On the other hand, you might want to replace either Recover or U-turn with Taunt/Magic Coat. Since your Chandelure is your answer to Deoxys-D, and since you don't have a spinner, most Deoxys-D sets (max speed) will always get Stealth Rocks + 1 layer of Spikes up, since Chandelure isn't able to ohko (79% - 95%). Mew can, with the right evs, outspeed any Deoxys-D set and Taunt it before it can set up hazards. However, you might want to choose Magic Coat over Taunt since some Deoxys-D can Magic Coat your Taunt back at you. Choose whichever of those two moves you like most.

    As for your Dragon problem, you could scarf you thundurus-t, since it'll be able to outspeed all Dragons at +1 (bar Latios and Latias but those are rarely scarfed) and Hidden Power [Ice], if it fails to ko, you can revenge with either Terrakion or Lucario's Extremespeed. If you decide to scarf it replace Agility to Volt Switch. Also, be sure to run Timid max speed if you scarf it as well, otherwise you'll fail to outspeed choice scarfed Salamence. Hope I helped.

    Good luck !
  5. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    A Lucario team :D
    I'm trying to build a team off Lucario and lemme just say it definitely leaves its mark on the opposing team when played right.
    What I like to run on my Lucario is SD, ES, CC, and BP. BP really helped in tight situations when my opponent thought their Gengar, Terrakion, or Scarfed Tyranitar could walk right and take an ES. Crunch is great, but Lucario's lacking Speed hurts a lot and so I find it hard to be able to abuse Crunch. If you decide to replace Crunch with BP, you need a Pokemon that can take Gliscor, Jellicent, Conkeldurr, Slowbro, and stuff that I can't remember off the top of my head. Rotom-W seems to work really well :)
    *PS: Since you're building a team with Lucario could you possible list some Pokemon that work really well with Lucario? thanks :)
  6. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    Masamune, while Scarf Terrakion may be able to beat everything on this team (except Celebi!), it has to immediately switch out in most cases - Chandelure is immune to Close Combat, Lucario 4x resists Stone Edge, and Thundurus-T can set up on a locked X-Scissor. In addition, Extremespeed is strong enough. To echo the sentiments of Tabuu and LucaroakZ, replacing Crunch is by far the better option, and I'll probably give it a shot later.

    Oiawesome, I mostly looked over CB Genesect when constructing this set since if it KOs Celebi I know I can set up with Chandelure. Otherwise, I can't really see how those changes help my team (P2 is incredibly rare, and I can't see how Tornadus would help).

    LucaroakZ, I'll try to tweak this team a bit and see if I can fit a bulkier Steel-type somewhere, but I agree that it's tough to find a place to stick one in.

    Eranu, I considered both Jirachi and Mew for the place that Celebi currently occupies, but Celebi has the spot for its Water resistance, which in my opinion is pretty crucial (holy fucking Rain Dance). Scarf Thundurus-T is a change I could try though since I already have Chandelure and have (somehow) been less than impressed with Thundy-T's performance on this team.
  7. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
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    Hey Arctic,

    Cool team! I like your use of Celebi, its versatility and fact that people think it's overshadowed by Jirachi makes me glad when I see it being used in such a solid team as yours. The only really problem I could see would be RP Lando in sand; it can set up on locked Keldeo/Terrakion, and then OHKO every pokemon in your team bar Celebi, who falls to repeated HP Ices. Lucario can take a chunk off with ESpeed, but that's still at most only 50%, and then it'll KO you back. Celebi could also possibly handle it as well, but Hasty Landorus's won't be 2HKO'd, while Stone Edge 2HKO's with weather (though, by betting on min/max damage, you could attempt to stall with Recover) and no matter what you do Celebi can not switch in to Stone Edge. Before you jump to the conclusion that the combined efforts of Celebi and Lucario can take it down; ESpeed and Psychic together can't KO without hazards, so you'll have to lose one of them.

    To help you handle Landorus a teensy bit better, I would recommend you run Quick Attack instead of Rock Slide on Terrakion, cleaving off that final chunk before switching to Celebi to 'revenge kill'. Although it's a bit weak, it does around 20%, which is just enough for Celebi to 2HKO. Quick Attack can also help you finish off other threats that have set up. I would definitely keep ESpeed on Lucario, because Landorus seems like a much bigger threats than Terrakion.

    To possibly add some more layers of defense against opposing set up sweepers or just sweepers in general, I think you could possibly try squeezing Thunder Wave instead of U-Turn or Recover on Celebi, allowing you to cripple opponents so Terrakion / Keldeo can revenge later. If countering Genesect lead-game is that important, than keeping Recover is probably a better idea, but I still urge you to try T-Wave.

    Cool team! I hope I helped!
  8. XlucariozX

    XlucariozX

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    Nice team, I wouldnt change anything. Or on second thought, this team is solid but there is one thing on lucario I would like to point out. Assuming Lucario has already set up a swords dance, I would switch close combat with drain punch. Now, I know everybody would be questioning that but here is my reasoning. Drain punch deals globs of damage with the STAB, life orb bonus, and swords dance and the nature / attack evs. Wouldn't it be nice to have drain punch deal much damage AND recover the hp lost from life orb recoil? Im not dissing the set since it gives me plenty of problems all the time. Simply think of it as a way to not get the defensive stat decrease and stay in the game a bit longer.
  9. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    I have made two actual changes:
    - Agility Thundurus-T --> Scarf Thundurus-T
    - Rock Slide on Terrakion --> Quick Attack

    And one sort-of-a-change: shifting Celebi's GEVs (Genesect EVs) back and forth to my will.

    And I'd say it would be doing well, except in the few battles I've played I have run into a TON of Venusaur, which can set up on a locked move and OHKO my entire team with the right move in Sun. I can take it down with priority spam, but that's as much as I can do to it. I considered adding Dragonite, but I can't find a place to put it and it STILL loses to HP Ice Venusaur. Any suggestions?

    Also, I just realized that I'm really inconsistent with the 4 EVs versus 6 EVs thing. XD
  10. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    Specialy Defensive Heatran can deal with venu if its not the mixed set with eq(and that set has 4mss IMO). It sponges dual STAB and is immune to HP fire and resists Hp Ice and can use venus sun agianst it by firing of powerfull sun boosted(and hopefully flash fire boosted) fire attacks.


    The Tran(Try over chandy)

    Heatran @Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Moves: Fire Blast/ Toxic/Hidden Power of your choice /Earth Power
    EVs: 252 SpD/ 200 HP / 56 SpA
  11. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    Specially Defensive Heatran kind of kills momentum on this team and amplifies the minor Landorus weakness I have. Chandelure also resists both of Venusaur's STABs in a pinch anyway, but since Chandy is my main answer to Sun it often ends up dying a bit early against it. I also lose Chandelure as my setup sweeper if I switch to Heatran. So I'm going to have to say no to Heatran.
  12. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    Celebi U-Turns out of Dugtrio (and is made to not lose to Genesect anyway...). Thundurus-T is immune to Arena Trap. Keldeo OHKOs Dugtrio with whatever it uses besides Hidden Power, although I'm not sure how much U-Turn + EQ does (then again, Icy Wind). Dugtrio can't take Extremespeed, but Genesect beats Lucario. Chandelure outspeeds Dugtrio after Flame Charge and destroys it unless Dugtrio has Sucker Punch (not all do). Dugtrio traps Terrakion if it's locked into Stone Edge or maybe X-Scissor but can't beat it if it's locked into Close Combat. Really, GeneTrio is only a problem if I make mistakes.
  13. EnterRAYZORS

    EnterRAYZORS

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    Solid Team!
    All I can see that hurts you is Terrakion, so id suggest 8ullet punch > espeed.
    However Alakazam destroys your team! So you need the espeed. iT depends which you encounter the most.
  14. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    24 hour bump. I still can't come up with a good Venusaur check.
  15. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Finding a full stop to Venusaur in Sun is almost impossible, you either check it spamming priority (and hoping it doesn't gain all the HP back by Giga Draining) or having Heatran and ensuring it doesn't carry EQ / your Air Balloon is intact. Heatran admittedly is pretty meh on a team like yours, while the meta is infested by Genesect + Dugtrio + Torn-T + whatever VoltTurner. However, if Venusaur is not carrying EQ and the Sleep Clause is activated, Chandelure does already a great job at checking Venusaur: it resists everything and can KO back with ease. However, for it to reliably do its work it requires a Spinner, which is quite hard to stick into your team. I don't really have any ideas on how to solve your problem, just wanted to point out that if you manage somewhat to keep SR off the field you're probably not that bad against Venusaur anyway. At least, better than a good 70% of my teams...
  16. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
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    Hi

    Got your request and here I am. Cool team arctic, chandelure is a very underrated mon in OU. Looking at your weakness's to powerful dragons as well as chlorophyll sweepers, I did notice there was 1 pokemon that could solve your Lati@s, Garchomp and Venusaur problems with ease. The only problem I have with this pokemon is that it is VERY hard to fit into the team to solve these problems. In the end, I thought that using Life Orb Mamoswine > Thundurus would solve all of the problems your team has nicely. STAB Ice shard will at the very minimum severely dent all of those threats, withe the chance for a KO with the appropriate move also being a very likely situation. The loss of Thundurus isn't too bad, as you have another Choice Scarfer in Terrakion to revenge kill a lot of the stuff that thundurus was capable of, but you do lose a volt turn pivot. You keep the handy ground immunity that thundurus possessed and your teams synergy remains very good, except for the addition of a fighting weakness. Mamoswines Earthquake helps keep threats such as opposing lucario away, and you also gain more insurance against certain variants of Gyarados as well as the theirans, most noticably opposing Thundurus-I which is always nice to have.

    I would also use Bullet Punch > Crunch on lucario. Considering reuniclus usage is low and Jellicent is beaten by using your Chandelure, Terrakion or Keldeo, I think using Bullet Punch to gain insurance against Gengar and Terrakion is a very good idea, as otherwise they are switching in and stopping your sweep before it can begin. If you plan on keeping Thundurus, use Grass Knot > Focus Blast. Your team has plenty of fighting attacks in it, and Grass Knot allows you to lure in and beat gastrodon, who is threatening to this team if it gets a chance to switch in, which it can on Celebi and locked in Thundurus

    GL with the team
    Show Hide
    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SpA)
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EV's: 252Atk/ 4Def/ 252Spe
    Ice Shard/ Earthquake/ Icicle Spear/ Stone Edge
  17. Ashura Areson

    Ashura Areson

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    If you are still looking for a Venasaur check... I personally use a scarfed tornadus-T with heatwave. Scarfed tornadus-T outspeeds a Vena in the sun and then OHKOs back with a heatwave. In addition, hurricane would also help with the likes of opposing keldeo not packing aqua jet. I suppose you could Run a timid nature with max Spec Attack and Speed with Hurricane U turn Heatwave and what ever else you feel you need. I personally use Focus Blast. I guess the most logical thing to replace would be thundurus T.
  18. Red3mpti0n

    Red3mpti0n

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    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Latias as a Venusaur check yet. It's bulky, resists Giga Drain and HP Fire and is versatile enough to do whatever you would like it to do; it can set up on most EQ Venusaur with CM, can run Sub to shield itself from status variants (Sleep Powder/Leech Seed), and can phaze +2 Venusaur out with Roar. It's no slouch offensively either so you're not killing your momentum.
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