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DPP OU Offense Is Always An Option! - A Joint RMT

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Magmortified, May 19, 2009.

  1. Magmortified

    Magmortified <b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    669
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    When people discuss the CAP metagame, you will inevitably hear about how everything leans towards stall. In an effort to show people that offense is still a very viable option in CAP, Plus, Beej, and I got together to make a team that could cut through defenses like a knife. If our run on the ladder is anything to go by, we succeeded. There's not really a definitive version of this team. There are a fair few places where you can customize it with different moves or spreads, but this is what we used.

    Just to note, we're not specifically looking for advice on how to fix the team up. We're trying to show that offense is a perfectly viable strategy in CAP.

    The Support

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    Stratagem @ Focus Sash
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Attack)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earth Power
    -Paleo Wave/Ice Beam
    -Flamethrower/Energy Ball

    When playing offense, you always want to be the one who gets the ball rolling, so to speak. A lot of how well the match is going to go for you depends on who's doing the pushing: you or your opponent. Therefore, you want a lead that gives you the first push and puts you in a position to keep pushing. Pressure, pressure, pressure. Stealth Rock is always appreciated when going on the offense, and so is being able to hit where it hurts right from turn one. Suicide leads can accomplish this.

    Stratagem makes for an excellent suicide lead with its incredible speed and excellent type coverage. A good amount of the time it manages to kill the opposing lead while setting up Stealth Rock, and can do even more damage to the unprepared opponent. Stratagem helps to ensure that the team can get itself started off on the right foot, and in certain scenarios it can survive later into the battle to help deal with certain threats.

    *Energy Ball and Ice Beam should be chosen based on how badly you want Stratagem to deal with certain Ground types. Usually, it's better coverage to pack Flamethrower and Paleo Wave (especially with the STAB boost), but you could use Energy Ball or Ice Beam to get the jump on Hippowdon/Flygon/Swampert.

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    Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Attack)
    -Thunderbolt
    -Shadow Ball
    -Overheat
    -Trick

    In the event your opponent has the power to push your momentum back a little, you want to do anything you can to tip the balance back into your favor. You can't let your opponent too far into their swing if you want to be able to swing back. Having a solid way to stop your opponent dead in their tracks isn't enough on its own. You need a way to stop them while getting going yourself.

    A Rotom with a Scarf makes an excellent revenge-killer for various threats to this team. Threats that could otherwise cause the team problems, such as Infernape, can be mitigated thanks to Rotom. Its typing allows it to be a solid switch-in to various threats, and from there transition into other Pokemon. It can boast enough power to take out some frail sweepers as well. Trick gives Rotom the oppurtunity to ruin a wall such as Blissey, or otherwise trap an opposing Pokemon with a bad item.
  2. Beej

    Beej
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    574
    The Mixed Attackers

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    Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 40 Atk/216 Spd/252 SAtk
    Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Roost
    ---
    Mixmence is notorious for being one hell of an amazing attacker in OU. But its abilities are magnified tenfold in the CAP metagame, as the place is oozing with walls and tanks for it to break apart. It can switch in on things like Fidgit, Skarmory and Forretress with virtual impunity and proceed to soften up the opposing team with an onslaught of Draco Meteors and Fire Blasts. One reason why Salamence fits into this team so well on this team is because so many of the things that it loves to come in on are commonly seen switching into Metagross, so we usually have plenty of opportunities to smack the opponent around with my high-powered attacks.

    In addition to its fantastic offensive prowess, Salamence provides a good defensive measure against a variety of physical attackers, thanks to Roost and Intimidate (which also makes it substancially easier for Metagross and Snorlax to come in on physical attackers). If it weren’t for Mence, the team would almost completely rely upon Rotom to stave off threats like Machamp, Lucario and Gyarados.

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    Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk/232 Spd/24 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spe, -SDef)
    - Overheat
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Mach Punch
    ---
    Physical Mixape with a couple of extra Speed EVs for outrunning Timid Fidgit. In many ways, Salamence makes up for Infernape’s special shortcomings and Infernape makes up for Salamence’s physical shortcomings. While Mence is a fearsome attacker indeed, it’s often forced to switch out after Draco Meteor and also suffers from a weaker physical attack. Unlike Salamence, Infernape directly threatens specially bulky Pokemon like Tyranitar, Blissey and Snorlax (who Salamence cannot beat without locking into Outrage) with Close Combat. With max attack, Ape’s CC is comparable to Lucario’s. Switch-in Arghonauts and Vaporeons run the risk of being 2HKOd. Those Pokemon that don’t mind CC, such as Gyarados, Zapdos and Rotom, risk being horribly crippled by Overheat or Stone Edge, which easily 2HKO all of these threats (Gyarados runs the risk of being OHKOed by Stone Edge with rocks and Close Combat/Overheat damage).

    Mach Punch is a really great, underutilized move on Infernape. With Salamence blasting holes in everything with its high-powered special moves, a lot of things are in Mach Punch kill range by the end of the match. It also turns Ape into our first line of defense against powerful special attackers that threaten to sweep us late-game, such as Stratagem and Empoleon. This team relies a lot upon Snorlax’s ability to survive even a powerful, boosted attack and take down an offensive threat that would otherwise sweep the team. Mach Punch takes some of the slack off of Snorlax by helping to pick off fast attackers even when the bulkier members of the team are incapable of sponging any more hits.
  3. Plus

    Plus been cookin with the sauce
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Professor of B101

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,498
    The Bulky Exploders

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    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 156 HP/252 Atk/100 Def
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Body Slam
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Selfdestruct
    ---
    Consistent pressure on the opponent is important. A great way to add additional pressure is to kill what they least expect will fall. Snorlax is a Pokemon that has a tendency to draw in a lot of walls and tanks with its bulk and power. However, they come in at a significant risk.

    Snorlax is very bulky. The EVs we used allow Snorlax to hit 500 HP, and hit hard with max Attack. The remaining EVs were dumped into Defense, and allow Snorlax to even take a LO Outrage from Salamence. Body Slam was used over Return for a nifty 30% paralysis chance, which can make certain pokemon think twice before switching into Snorlax. With Paralysis, it makes sweeps even easier to perform with Ape and Mence. Snorlax is bulky and can special attacks for the team as well as certain physical attacks, but there's more to the bulk than just taking hits.

    Offensively, Snorlax can kill in two ways. There's the normal Body Slam, Crunch, and EQ attacks, and then there's the panic button. Snorlax has the ability to take out something unexpectedly with Selfdestruct, meaning that the opponent is never safe. A Snorlax can OHKO a Scizor after SR is factored in with Selfdestruct. Skarmory takes about 70-75% of damage against a Selfdestruct of Snorlax, which is usually irreversible provided the offensive momentum is maintained. Explosion type moves not only do massive amounts of damage to threats, but it can also set you in the perfect spot for the match to become in your favor. The opponent, if done correctly, will lose more than what you have lost, thus putting you in a favorable position for a sweep.


    [​IMG].

    Metagross @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 200 HP/252 Atk/12 Def/44 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Explosion
    - Earthquake
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Meteor Mash
    ---
    Non-lead Metagross is usually identified as either Agiligross or Trappergross. However, this set takes a more simpler route in the form of attacking. With 44 Speed EVs, it can outspeed the standard Arghonaut and everything under it, including CBTar. Though not exactly a speed demon, this Metagross outruns what it has to and gains the bulk necessary to become a reliable hit-taker on the team, similar to Snorlax. Zen Headbutt does over 70% to most Arghonaut, while Meteor Mash and Earthquake deal with everything else. Explosion guarantees at least one Pokemon dies, if used correctly. Latias, who thinks that it could beat us off with Surfs before Meta can beat it with Meteor Mash has to think twice when an Explosion simply kills off one of Infernape's main threats.

    Metagross is an amazing tank, and it works great in the CAP metagame in particular. Provided it doesn't have Earthquake, it covers against even Life Orb Kitsunoh considerably well, which would take a toll on our team otherwise. Furthermore, it provides the Dragon resist the team needs, and has great synergy with Salamence. Many times will we see a DD'd Outrage come in Salamences way, only to be destroyed by Gross. Both Metagross and Snorlax function as backbones to the team, and can explode at any moment, making them formidable to deal with at any given time.
    ---

    Threat List


    The order of these pokemon were taken from the March Server Statistics, in order from most common to least common. We emitted some of the pokemon, as we felt they weren't that common enough to be considered in today's meta.

    [​IMG]
    Metagross: Rotom-h can switch into most of Metagross's attacks and come back with a nasty Overheat. Infernape and Mence can also OHKO Metagross with their respective fire moves, although they cannot switch in as easily as Rotom.

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    Latias: Snorlax can handle most of Latias's moves, and fight back with Crunch. Metagross can switch into a Draco Meteor and explode if need be as well. If it is a slower Latias, then Salamence will have an easy time with Draco Meteor and Outrage.

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    Scizor: Rotom can take scizor, and Metagross can wall a CBScizor Bullet Punch. EQ does about 40% to Scizor each time. If need-be, Mence can take a Bullet Punch with Intimidate and Fire Blast it to death.

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    Salamence: Quite tough to handle. It usually depends on what pokemon is in Salamence at the given time. Most of the time, you would lure in a Fire Blast with Snorlax, and Body Slam/Selfdestruct when necessary, or switch Metagross into a predicted Outrage. In the case that Salamence Dragon Dances, luring Salamence into Outrage in order for Meta to boom is essential.

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    Jirachi: Metagross can take Jirachi on, as can Rotom. During the case of CM Jirachi, Snorlax is usually the best option. Mence also does well with Fire Blast.

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    Starmie: Starmie generally has a really tough time coming in, as just about any attack from our Pokemon does respectable damage to it. Snorlax can handle it. It is also possible to predict a Rapid Spin or Trick and switch to Scarf Rotom in order to Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball it.

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    Tyranitar: Metagross outspeeds Tyranitar and usually OHKOs with Meteor Mash. It is 3HKO'd by CBTar's Crunch.

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    Heatran: Snorlax is the best option for Heatran, with Salamence being the second. Provided it does not run Dragon Pulse/HP Ice, Mixmence can dent Heatran quite hard for about 65% with Draco Meteor. Rotom outspeeds and can kill off a weakened Heatran with Thunderbolt.

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    Infernape: This one is quite tough as well. For most Infernape, it is necessary to lure in Close Combat and fight back with Scarf Rotom. If Stratagem is still intact, Earth Power would work provided no priority is run. Salamence can intimidate Infernape, in which it would be tempted to HP Ice. In this case, switching to Snorlax to kill Ape would cost about 70% of it's health. If it's a physically-based Mixape, Metagross can threaten to survive an Overheat after a SpA drop and OHKO back with Earthquake or Zen Headbutt.

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    Zapdos: Snorlax, yet again, does wonders against Zapdos. None of Zapdos's normal moves can do much to Snorlax, and can easily come back with a mean Body Slam. Salamence and Infernape both do ridiculous amounts of damage with Draco Meteor and Overheat/Stone Edge.

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    Fidgit: Since a lot of Fidgit are used as leads, Stratagem can Earth Power or Ice Beam in order to 2HKO Fidgit. Furthermore, Stratagem is immune to Fidgit's Earth Power. During mid to late game, Snorlax can come in and 2HKO most Fidgit with an EQ. Most Fidgit are completely non-threatening to Salamence, who hits back hard with any one of its attacks.

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    Machamp: Usually, Machamp has to be lured into using anything other than DynamicPunch. In this case, it is best to go to Rotom first to take a DynamicPunch, then go to Metagross and Zen Headbutt to OHKO Machamp. If caught in a tight spot and Rotom is gone, Salamence can Intimidate Machamp and Draco Meteor it.

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    Breloom: Sleeping something such as Strata would be ideal. Rotom could deal with Rotom then. Salamence is another option, although it isn't as reliable as Rotom since Breloom would most likely be under a sub.

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    Arghonaut: Metagross and Rotom take Arghonaut with relative ease. If for some reason it gets 2-3 Stockpiles, Tricking with Rotom is the best option. Explosion could work as well, if Rotom seems to be down. Salmence Draco Meteor does about 70%.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory: For Skarmory, Stratagem, Infernape, Rotom and Salamence can all take on Skarmory. If there seems to be trouble denting Skarmory, exploding is always a viable option in order to ensure Skarmory can not recover.

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    Celebi: Salamence is the best option if it can avoid Thunder Wave. Fire Blast and Draco Meteor cripple it very badly. Snorlax can fuck with Celebi to an extent. If it dishes out a Leech Seed, drop a Selfdestruct on it. Rotom can also deal with Celebi by using Overheat/Shadow Ball. Meta works similarly to Snorlax as well, with Meteor Mash and Explosion instead of Crunch and Selfdestruct.

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    Flygon: This is also annoying to handle. Prediction is the key to beating it. Anything can take a U-turn. Salamence, Rotom and Stratagem can take an EQ. Metagross walls a Flygon trapped into Outrage, and it can take one Earthquake if need be and strike back with Meteor Mash. Snorlax can take Fire Blast. A weakened Flygon is Mach Punch fodder for Ape.

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    Stratagem: Snorlax can take Stratagem. If it is Technician, EQ OHKOes it. Infernape can switch in after a kill and Mach Punch Stratagem. Watch out for Vacuum Wave though. Rotom can outspeed Strata and 2HKO with either Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt. Meta can survive just about anything that Stratagem throws at it short of +1 Fire Blast and strike back with Meteor Mash.

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    Snorlax: Infernape can kill off Snorlax, and Metagross can 2HKO with Meteor Mash. Tricking Snorlax with Rotom is also an option, though Crunch is something to watch out for.

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone: Salamence, Stratagem, Infernape, and Snorlax can deal with magnezone. However, if it gets a sub up, it is harder to fend off and would usually have to result in sacrificing something.

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    Vaporeon: Rotom and Snorlax can deal with Vaporeon. Rotom, however, must watch out for Surf. Nonetheless, if problems occur, exploding is always there. If it doesn't have Ice Beam, Salamence wins.

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    Blissey: Everything on this team, except for Stratagem, can deal with Blissey to an extent. Rotom can Trick Blissey, Metagross 2HKOs with Meteor Mash, Snorlax can take all of Blissey's moves and Body Slam it, Infernape is obviously going to kill Blissey, and Salamence has Outrage.

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados: When in danger, it is best to switch to Metagross/Snorlax and explode off. When Rotom is still intact, make sure to switch it on EQ/DD and revenge it with Thunderbolt. Draco Meteor can OHKO gyarados, and Infernape can kill off Gyara with Stone Edge without Intimdate factoring in SR.

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    Azelf: For leads, Stratagem can outspeed Azelf and kill with Flamethrower/Ice Beam. For non leads, there's Scarf Rotom that can outspeed and kill, as well as Snorlax for special variant Azelf.

    [​IMG]
    Lucario: Salamence has Intimidate and can survive a +1 LO Extremespeed even with SR up. Infernape can kill off weakened Lucario with Mach Punch. Rotom can come in on SD/CC and Overheat Lucario.

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    Revenankh: Metagross and Rotom deal with Revenankh with Zen Headbutt and Shadow Ball respectively. Even with one Bulk Up, Metagross can 2HKO the standard Rev. Furthermore, Salamence can win out with a combination of Draco Meteor and Outrage.

    [​IMG]
    Gengar: Let Gengar sleep something, then bring in Rotom on a Focus Blast/Tbolt to Shadow Ball. Snorlax can take about 2 Focus Blasts and come back with Crunch. Meta is bulky enough to take Shadow Ball on a switch, and Zen Headbutt while barely surviving.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Rotom-a: Snorlax can take on Rotom. If you predict a WoW, then Infernape can come in on that and Overheat to kill most Rotom after SR. Salamence can come in on Overheat, Hydro Pump or Leaf Storm from offensive Rotom-h, w and c, and any one of its attacks either OHKO or cripple.

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine: Quite annoying. We used to have even worse problems with Mamoswine, but Rotom now takes on Mamo as it can come in on EQ and Overheat.

    [​IMG]
    Swampert: For Lead Swampert, Energy Ball Stratagem can dish out some nasty damage. Tricking Swampert with Rotom or exploding are also options. Draco Meteor can kill most Swampert off after some small damage as well.

    [​IMG]
    Bronzong: Rotom can both Trick and Overheat on Bronzong. Infernape can kill most Bronong that have about 90% health left. Salmence Fire Blast stings like hell.

    [​IMG]
    Jolteon: Snorlax can come in and EQ. However, Thunderbolt still does quite the amount. If Stratagem is still alive, it can speed tie with Jolteon and Earth Power. Metagross can last two non-Specs or LO Thunderbolts and EQ.

    [​IMG]
    Empoleon: Snorlax can EQ Empoleon. If it happens to Sub-whore, Snorlax can still survive 2 surfs, factoring in Petaya. If Snorlax is too weak to take on Surfs, Infernape can clean up with Mach Punch. Rotom can kill off empoleon with Thunderbolt too, however, if it gets an agility up, it will be killed by Surf.

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio: This depends on what Duggy traps, and what it uses. Since most Duggy are Banded, If it uses EQ, Stratagem, Salamence, and Rotom can come in and kill it. In any other case, Snorlax is bulky enough to last 2 EQs and come back with Body Slam.

    [​IMG]
    Togekiss: Snorlax can take most of Togekiss's moves. If it is Nasty Plot+Roost, exploding would work, as well as Rotom Thunderbolt, which is more of a safer option.

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    Kingdra: Snorlax does great against Rain-based Mixed Kingdra. If it is not under rain, Salamence can outspeed Kingdra. If it has DD, luring Kingdra into Outrage for Meta works.

    [​IMG]
    Pyroak: If it's still alive, Stratagem's Paleo Wave hurts like hell. Salamence walls most of Pyroak's common moves, and Draco Meteor does about 70% to Pyroak. Factoring in SR, it would barely survive. Snorlax can Selfdestruct if Pyroak succeeds in surviving and recovering up. Be sure to Body Slam first to ensure that it will not switch and will continue to stall you out, thinking it is safe.

    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon: Explosions can kill it, as can Salamence's Draco Meteor. Rotom can Trick Hippowdon and Stratagem can Energy Ball/Ice Beam it. Infernape can Overheat if need be, if Hippowdon's health is low enough.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress: Salamence, Stratagem, Rotom-h, and Infernape can kill Forry with their respective fire moves.

    [​IMG]
    Syclant: Snorlax can Body Slam Syclant, and Metagross can survive two non TG Earth Powers. Rotom can also Overheat when necessary. Stratagem can Flamethrower Syclant if it is still alive. Mach Punch from Infernape kills off a weakened Syclant.

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor: Explosions will kill off Gliscor. Draco Meteor, Ice Beam Stratagem, and Shadow Ball from Rotom are also good in killing Gliscor off. Furthermore, Infernape's Overheat can deal quite a bit of damage to Gliscor.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite: Salamence can outspeed and kill off Dragonite. If it is DD Dragonite, go to Mence and lure in the Outrage so Meta can kill Dragonite off. If worst comes to worse, Snorlax can boom it away.

    [​IMG]
    Roserade: Lead Roserade will take respectable damage from Stratagem and relies upon the inaccurate Sleep Powder to stop it. Infernape and Snorlax can take hits from Roserade and kill it off. Metagross, Rotom, and Mence also give Roserade trouble.

    [​IMG]
    Yanmega: Hate this thing. Yanmega has trouble with Snorlax and Rotom, both of which can kill it off. However, it must sleep something first, such as Stratagem, before it has troubles.

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    Suicune: Suicune has to deal with Rotom, where it could be Tricked or Thunderbolted. If it has a few CMs up, Snorlax can Selfdestruct in order to kill this threat. Suicune sometimes has a tendency to switch into Mence, in which case it will probably be taking a Draco Meteor.

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    Cresselia: Rotom, Snorlax, and Metagross can fend off this beast by exploding, tricking, or Shadow Balling it. Lowering Cresselia's defense via Crunch is a longer yet still effective option as well. As was said for Suicune, Cress likes to come into Mence and it won't enjoy a Draco Meteor.

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    Heracross: Rotom can switch into most of Heracross's moves, other than Night Slash. Metagross can take all of Hera's moves, although it cannot switch into all of them. Exploding Meta on Hera can work, as well as Salamence which could switch in on Megahorn and Roost off the incoming damage.

    [​IMG]
    Aerodactyl: Lead Aero speed tie with Strata, and die to Paleo Wave or Ice Beam. Any other Aero is kind of sucky in today's Meta, and would die easily to the hands of Rotom or Metagross.

    [​IMG]
    Porygonz: Snorlax and Meta can handle this. In case this thing is Sub Salac and somehow gets Tri Attack Hax, Infernape can finish Pory Z with Mach Punch. Rotom picks off weakened non-Timid Scarf Porygon-Z with Thunderbolt.

    [​IMG]
    Azumarill: Salamence can switch in on Waterfall, while Metagross can switch on Waterfall. Rotom can kill it off with Thunderbolt, although it is harder to switch in Rotom as opposed to the latter.

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    Dusknoir: Draco Meteor and Overheat from Salamence and Infernape can handle Dusknoir, and Rotom can Trick Dusknoir to make life easier. Shadow Ball could also work, but Shadow Sneak hurts.

    [​IMG]
    Crobat: Most Crobat are leads, and Stratagem speed ties with it in order to Paleo Wave or Ice Beam it. Rotom can outspeed Crobat and hit with Thunderbolt, and Meta doesn't mind much of anything that Crobat throws at it.

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    Tentacruel: Snorlax EQ 2HKOes Tenta, whie Zen Headbutt OHKOes. Rotom's Thunderbolt also packs quite the punch.

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    Ludicolo: Snorlax is truly fantastic against this thing and, even in the rain, can take any attack and either Selfdestruct or Body Slam and hope for paralysis.
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    Ninjask: For lead ninjask, Rotom can deal with Jask quite nicely. Although there isn't much of a phazer in this team, it is most likely possible to deal with anything Jask may pass to.

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    Electivire: EQ from Snorlax can kill off Electivire, as Cross Chop will not kill it. Salamence outruns if it doesn't have a Motor Drive boost and kills back with just about anything.

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    Weavile: Metagross takes Weavile on nicely. Meteor Mash obviously kills it. Mach Punch From Ape also kills off Weavile.

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    Alakazam: Snorlax can deal with it's attacks and retaliate with Crunch. Metagross can last most of Zam's attacks as well and come back with Meteor Mash, and Rotom can outspeed Zam and Shadow Ball.

    [​IMG]
    Kitsunoh: In the case of Choice Kitsunohs, we can switch around resists, but Life Orb attackers are a bit trickier. If it has Earthquake and not Superpower, Snorlax makes a good switch-in. If it has Superpower and not Earthquake, Metagross is your best bet. The worst case scenario is a Sub Status Kit, in which case Metagross will be forced to take a Will-O-Wisp in order to scare it away. Rotom outspeeds non-Scarf Kitsunoh and can kill it off with Overheat. If it's still alive, Stratagem works similarly with Flamethrower or Earth Power.
    ---

    Credits:


    Cyzir- Your pictures are amazing
    Everybody on the ladder- You helped perfect the team
    Mag, Beej- You guys are just great <3


    Thanks for reading ^_^
  4. Namso

    Namso
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    I've fought this team so many times, and I must say it does really well against my stall team. Plus kills me everytime I ladder with it, Beej and Mag still have some trouble. xD

    Anyways, really well made team. Props on that.
  5. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Social Media Chief

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    I absolutely hate this team. As in, it's fucking amazing and the only hole I can see in your team can be played around, which you regularly do. You are weak to your own Mixape build, which people will no doubt be using once they see how damn good it is. You can kinda revenge it with Rotom or your own Ape, but you risk a speed tie with Mach Punch/Stone Edge, and Rotom can't switch in without getting severely hurt. You could try Hidden Power Ground over Shadow Ball on Rotom, but Thunderbolt suffices I guess. If you've tricked your scarf, you lose quite soundly. However, there isn't much you can do other than that without completely revamping your team, and from the looks of it, that isn't an option. Amazing job guys, and thanks for proving that offense is alive and well in CAP!
  6. little gk

    little gk <Birkal> I will quit everything I do on smogon
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    This was a great team and it almost makes me sad you guys retired it so early. You guys almost alwyas beat me except for like 2 times i got lucky. Holy shit i like this team. Good job guys, one for the archives?
  7. Plus

    Plus been cookin with the sauce
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Professor of B101

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    @Tennis

    Good find, we have found ape problems in the past when we first used this. We actually had to replace specs with scarf in order to switch into CC easily and hit Ape quite hard so it doesn't kill off our team earlier.

    As for everyone else, thank you for helping us test. As mentioned in the credits, you helped perfect the team!
  8. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    As you all know, I love this team. It's great, and I got regularly thrashed by the three of you when I was laddering a while ago.

    This is why you are some of CAP's best contributors. You actively pursue the development of the metagame, something few others can boast.

    Note to Mag: Clefairy weak. Hell yeah.
  9. Depressio

    Depressio

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    This team is a beast. Even using some of these Pokemon separately (Snorlax, Specs Rotom) has won me many battles. Just looking at that list of counters and how that team takes them on effectively makes me realize how solid this team is. Kudos, guys.
  10. Joatmon

    Joatmon

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
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    143
    The only criticism I can give is, wow, this team is fantastic. Also agreeing that Mach Punch is amazing on Infernape, and that Stratagem is an amazing suicide lead. I wish I had more to say, but I cannot find any fallacy in the team that you cannot play around easily or haven't already covered.
  11. Raj

    Raj CAP Playtesting Expert

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    Having modeled my own team some (okay 95%) from this team I can honestly say it's pretty cool. However, I'd like to point out a few flaws and how I dealt with them (and exploited them to combat this team) while using the team.
    1. Stratagem- Technician > Levitate increases powe and survivability. If an AP boost is managed, Strat easily takes out half a team (lacking Blissey).
    2. In order to help with your Infernape problem, you changed Specs Rotom-W to Scarf Rotom-H, who yes, does help against Ape, but then opens the team up to Pursuit Tar.
    3. Snorlax- I dunno about you 3, but I found that people tried poisoning Lax and that he took so little from Special Ice/Fire types that Thick Fat was less appealing than immunity. I've got to admit, you guy rrally opened me up to this guy.
    4.Salamence- Definite beast... but SR is a huge burden on him without a spinner- especially when coming in and out leaves no time for Roost. Not a big problem, though I much preferred Outrage to hit hard and switch less.
    5. Gross- nothing wrong here. I HATED this.
    6. Ape... early on I realized that 192 Speed was being used. I used 196 and eventually bumped it up to 252 to outspeed yours 100% of the time. Overheat seemed to me a poor option because of the power drop forcing you to switch. Fire Blast may not KO Rotom, but it delivers the necessary damage for Gross, Celebi, and Jirachi. More importantly, on mispredicts you can use it again w/ full Sp Att Stone Edge just didn't seem to handle Mence. HP Ice handles Mence, Flygon, and Gliscor w/o any investment. CC and Mach Punch ara just Stellar.

    Overall, great team, but it doesn't do too well against Axe's stall. Then again, nothing does well against Axe's anything
  12. Plus

    Plus been cookin with the sauce
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    Professor of B101

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    Uh, no, I don't agree with this. The ground immunity is much more important than getting a small boost in power. Either way Blissey takes this on, so I don't see your point here. Survivability? Who needs survivability when it's a SUICIDE lead? Either way, I still disagree. Levitate allows you to switch into more menacing threats, and still hit back. Can you give me something in particular that tech gem would kill that it really needs to, as opposed to non tech?

    Specs Rotom sadly opens the team up to Pursuit tar as well. If you're going to say that's a problem, you might as well tell us to ditch Rotom as a whole, which we aren't going to do.

    Okay, we have also considered Immunity in the past. It's valid option, and as we have said before there are many parts in the team that you can customize to your liking. Heatran, however, does about 40% without Thick Fat, which we did not like at all. As a result, we kept Thick Fat.

    It actually does get to use roost when it's in on something that it threatens hard, such as Skarmory. Obviously not as much as something who can take hits better like Zapdos, but this has helped Mence stay in longer for the game in order to keep the threats gonig.

    We just bumped it up a bit to outspeed Timid Fidgit. Overheat, considering the lower amount of SpA evs we invested, was the ideal choice for us, and that OHKO on Rotom is very important. I will also note that even with the SpA drop Overheat does considerably high amounts of damage to everything you have said. Basically this Infernape was used to make up for the shortcomings or Salamence in the physical department. We'd like to stick physical for this.

    TBH, Axe originally took a stall version of a team Beej, Mag and I made prior. He then modified it to his own liking, and I will say it is indeed the deadliest stall in CaP. However, this team can infact do a number to Axe's stall, or any stall in particular. This team isn't invincible, nor is any team out there.

    Anyways, thanks for the comments. However, we did say that we are not looking to change anything in the intro.
  13. VKCA

    VKCA (Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)

    Joined:
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    I beat axe's team twice:/ sure both were because of a crit but that was after he took out two pokes with lead rachi:(

    Teams very solid (as you already know) but one thing I've been trying with it is running ice punch on gross over zen headbutt as it allows him to deal with dragons a little better. But then again I've never faced a rev with this team so I'm not sure how threatening he or argo are without zenheadbutt.

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