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Official MLB 2012 Season Thread

Discussion in 'Sports Arena' started by tennisace, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Wikey

    Wikey

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    Yeah, because Stras wasn't going to be nervous in his first career playoff game. It could have happened to anyone. And at least two of the walks were the result of the bad umpire. For Gio the zone was smaller than it should have been while for Wainwright the plate was about eight inches wider.
  2. Byrne

    Byrne

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    "blah blah my team is doing poorly so it MUST be the refs/umpires/whatever"

    sigh. sports fans these days.
  3. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    /inb4umpcostredsagame
  4. Byrne

    Byrne

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    I never blame refs. When you lose, there's always something you could have done better as a team at some point during the game to prevent that. The refs do not control games. Sports fans nowadays are unable to accept losses and the amount of blame put on refs in ALL of the major sports disgusts me.
  5. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    Tell that to the Atlanta Fans, hope you're wearing a protective suit lol

    Omg, I'm agreeing with you, maybe the world isn't coming to an end after all.
  6. Wikey

    Wikey

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    Did I say it was the Umpire's fault we were losing? No. I was just expressing my disgust with the shit job that guy was doing.

    I also just heard that this crew has thrown out Davey Johnson twice this year and they were the only team to throw him out all year. They're Nats haters. :P

    Ugly win but I'll take it on the road.
  7. Byrne

    Byrne

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    Good god. Nats sucked, Cards sucked even more. What a pitiful playoff game.
  8. Wikey

    Wikey

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    Just found out that TBS gets to decide when each game is played so as long as the Yankees are in it they'll get the best time slot.

    Just another reason to hate the scumbag Yankees and their mouth breathing fans.
  9. Byrne

    Byrne

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    Nobody in the postseason looks as dominant as the Reds have looked.

    You all better be fucking scared. Especially you, Nats.
  10. Stallion

    Stallion Killing is my business, and business is good!
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    Since when was Arroyo that good? Lol here's hoping the Reds win the WS!
  11. Byrne

    Byrne

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    he's always been very good! he would be a #3 or so starter in the rotation of every single team in baseball.

    people don't talk about him because he's on the Reds and no one gives a shit about us, but Bronson's breaking balls are some of the best in baseball.
  12. Wikey

    Wikey

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    Yeah, the Reds really dominated us in those 2 games of the seven game season series they beat us in.

    Also, Arroyo looked that good when he was still coming out of the bullpen in Boston. He's always had good stuff.
  13. Byrne

    Byrne

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    Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot the regular season results are a 100% accurate predictor of what happens/will happen in the postseason. This is a pattern that has been proven exactly correct in the postseason every single year in every single sport. In fact, it's so accurate that we're just going to give the Nationals the World Series trophy right now since they won more games than anyone else. That obviously means that no one can or ever will beat them in the postseason this year. Sorry for being so stupid!
  14. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    Ahhh, its nice whenever I wake up and see that Baltimore gets put back in their place

    I like Buck, but cmon O's, October is our opening day
  15. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
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    Arroyo was literally the worst starting pitcher in MLB last year. 2012 is some weird anomaly where he's mysteriously become slightly more than a mediocre innings-eater. Not that I'm complaining.
  16. moi

    moi

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    if Bronson Arroyo would be a #3 on any roster then hitters would be dominating the league.

    Mr. E gave a good description, actually. Arroyo's only real value is innings eating. What saw the marginal increase this year was his slight increase in %K and slight %BB decrease. %K is probably a one year thing, as his trends were going down every year, but the %BB may not have been. Either way, he pitched a hell of a game yesterday..
  17. Byrne

    Byrne

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    No, 2011 was the anomaly, not this season.

    He has a winning record and a 4.23 ERA for his career. Any team in baseball would have him in their rotation. He's incredibly solid and always has been. Arroyo's the #3 starter on one of the best pitching rotations on the league, wtf are you talking about moi?
  18. Stallion

    Stallion Killing is my business, and business is good!
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    A full strength Nats wouldn't want him as a number 3...
  19. moi

    moi

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    A #3 starter isn't defined by his place on a roster, but his actual talent level. You can't just make blanket statements. Arroyo is justifiably BAD.

    Trying to use basic stats like ERA and winning records doesn't mean anything, either. a 4.23 career ERA isn't anything impressive. It's bordering on replacement level. Wins and losses don't mean anything either, those are just a function of the team behind you.

    Why the heck are you calling people out on bias when you can't even admit that Arroyo isn't solid. He's a low talent inning eater, who offers nothing more than replacement level over 200 innings a year. He's quantifiably bad.

    Also, you think 2011 was the anomaly? He was following a natural progression of getting worse. He's 35. Your ability doesn't stay constant. I don't know how you can't see that a sudden spike back isn't an anomaly.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=978&position=P
  20. Byrne

    Byrne

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    You're right, he'd be their number 4 instead.

    You're right, a 4.23 career ERA isn't impressive. It's solid, which is exactly what Bronson is. Just because he doesn't have a 10 K/9 ratio you think he's BAD? You haven't provided a single shred of evidence to suggest he's bad other than the fact that you just happen to think so. Considering his home ball park is literally THE most hitter-friendly ballpark in baseball (besides like Coors damn Field, but they're like 50,000 feet in the air lol), I'd say he does pretty fucking well.
  21. moi

    moi

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    I linked you to his stat page while referencing his stats, but if you'd like it in more detail, I'll be happy to oblige. He is, and always has been, one of the most homer friendly pitchers in the league. This isn't just a function of his home ball park, either. Admittedly, the GABP has one of the highest HR only park factors (though as a note, it isn't nearly as exaggerated as you stated, it consistently ranks top 10, though), he still has a career 1.18 HR/9 on the road.

    Earlier in his career in Cincinnati, he wasn't just a bad starter who ate innings. He provided marginal value in those innings because he could still strike out some batters. I appreciate that you think I need his K/9 to be 10, because obviously, greatly exaggerating someone else's stance is a way to prove them wrong. He's at a point now where he's striking out far less than the league average, at a time when the strikeout ratio is only increasing. This year, the National League strikeout average was 7.69. His ONE YEAR spike was 5.75 (whereas his previous three years had an average closer to 5). That's a difference of two.. that's more than substantial.

    But what if strikeouts don't matter (even though they obviously do)? Arroyo's pitching style is even more detrimental than most in that scenario. He's a 60% FB pitcher, with at minimum 10% HR/FB. This means, that Arroyo, in comparison to most pitchers, allows more balls in play (because he doesn't strike out many batters). Which means he allows more flyballs than most pitchers. And we get the homeruns.

    You can be a pitcher like this if you "have the stuff to get away with that". There's a reason people say that: striking out batters removes ball in play, which always increases the likelihood of a positive outcome for a pitcher.

    There was a time when you could argue that Bronson Arroyo was solid, especially relative to the league average (say, 2005-2008). Unfortunately, Arroyo's performance has generally been getting worse, at a time when league average (especially the National League), has been getting even better. This means that his value relative to other players has been getting even lower. When you take into account the Cincinnati defense (who, from 2009-2012 are ranked #1 in Defensive Runs Saved, and #2 in Ultimate Zone Rating), you see that Arroyo is a a bad pitcher who's ONLY value is innings, who's been saved the disgusting stat-line on balls in play thanks to a defense with some of the best range in all of baseball (as evidenced by his 4.79 FIP, and 4.5 WAR, second worst (to Jeremy Guthrie) and worst among pitchers with 700+ IP over 2009-2012)
  22. J-man

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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaaa

    Good one

    Well, gee, I guess if Cabby has more RBI's... you kind of are supporting my argument, seeing as one of the criteria for mvp is playing time....
    http://designaterobertson.blogspot.com/2012/10/encore-miggy4mvp.html
    BOOM, FACTS
    Fact: Miggy involved in 28% of Tigers runs
    Trout involved in 25.9%

    You guys sure love ragging on me when you're wrong....
  23. moi

    moi

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    tbh J-Man I didn't say anything about the run%. Actually, the fact that you're talking about OFFENSE only shows how illogical the argument is. Unless you're trying to say 2% difference on offense is worth more than Trout's baserunning and defense. (with the %2 being largely a factor of the fact that Cabrera played more)

    The writer of the article you linked to fully admitted at the end, that it is more of a feeling, and again left the reader with nothing more than

    Placing is no proof of value. Value comes in wins, and how much a player added to them. Just because LA would still be in third place doesn't mean they would be the same team, that's obvious, isn't it? Did you even read the article I linked you to? Essentially, it came back to an argument about leading the team to the playoffs again. And if that's what you really want the MVP to be about, then that's fine, whatever. It's illogical, and comes back to the argument of somehow believing that a single player has that great of an influence, even when in the case of Detroit it was the starting pitchers that carried them to the end.
  24. Byrne

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    which is hilarious in the first place because, again, the Angels had a better record in a tougher division.

    Back to Bronson, you're basically saying he's bad because he doesn't strike out "enough" batters and because he gives up home runs? Well okay, those home runs aren't really that big of a deal when he never gives up runs any other way, considering his ERA is STILL solid, always hovering at right around 4, which is not bad by any stretch of the imagination. You can throw meaningless sabermetrics like FIP at me all day, but what matters to me is that Bronson is consistently at a 4 ERA in one of the most hitter-friendly ball parks in the MLB. That makes for a solid pitcher. Not good, not bad. Solid. I would take him on my team in a heartbeat, regardless of the team.

    also, LOTS OF GOOD PITCHING BY CARDS AND NATS. THIS IS INSPIRING.
  25. TrollFreak

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    Byrne, stop making fun of our defending WS champs, they're doing just enough to make a shock run like they did last year

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