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Official NBA 2011-12 Season Thread
- Thread starter -RatCheesy
- Start date
Guys guys at least neither Howard nor Lebron did this
But seriously how is which player being a bigger failure at social media even important? Howard and Lebron BOTH fucked up significantly. There are aspects that could impact both "deserving" to win rings as far as the way they lucked into better conditions, but ultimately whether winning on "your own" versus with a valuable partner superstar is just a subjective argument anyway.
EDIT: I managed to coincidentally bash Kobe within seconds of your query Ouro, I hope it was as good an answer for you as it was for me.
But seriously how is which player being a bigger failure at social media even important? Howard and Lebron BOTH fucked up significantly. There are aspects that could impact both "deserving" to win rings as far as the way they lucked into better conditions, but ultimately whether winning on "your own" versus with a valuable partner superstar is just a subjective argument anyway.
EDIT: I managed to coincidentally bash Kobe within seconds of your query Ouro, I hope it was as good an answer for you as it was for me.
Hey darkie, i know this is pages ago..but are you thinking I'm just a random fan going anywhere were I can't be a loser?
Ever since OKC Thunder was formed, I've always been a big Thunder fan, well because I was born there and that made my dad happy when he was still alive. The Brooklyn move is great for me because I lived there for more than a decade, y'know, at least I have something to do when I go back to US.
Lakers? I love Kobe as a player, but the Howard trade makes me feel ill just because of what Magic got. Of course, they're a strong threat to Thunder so I kind of despise them now.
What I hate about Lakers fans here is that they don't admit that Spurs/Thunder are still the team to beat out West.
Ever since OKC Thunder was formed, I've always been a big Thunder fan, well because I was born there and that made my dad happy when he was still alive. The Brooklyn move is great for me because I lived there for more than a decade, y'know, at least I have something to do when I go back to US.
Lakers? I love Kobe as a player, but the Howard trade makes me feel ill just because of what Magic got. Of course, they're a strong threat to Thunder so I kind of despise them now.
What I hate about Lakers fans here is that they don't admit that Spurs/Thunder are still the team to beat out West.
The Lakers are the team to beat now, not the Spurs or Thunder. Just like the Heat became the team to beat no matter what their specific regular season record was either year (although they were still beatable, outcomes do not preclude possibilities), the Lakers have launched right back to being THE team to beat in the Western Conference.
Just too fast for you. We don't even know if they're going to blend. If you're starting 5 has any of the following: Kobe, Artest, Howard, I think you'll have chemistry issues. Nash will be TOO old to hold them off.
You cannot really compare them to the Heat trio, those guys are on their prime when they were formed. The Lakers only has Howard on his prime. Kobe and Nash has their own declines. Also, I think that Lakers will have issues on perimeter defense, things that Thunder and Spurs excel at.
Here is one thing I'm being gaudy about:
-NBA MVP
-NBA Finals MVP
-NBA Champion
-Olympics Gold Medal
These are LeBron things in a matter of months. I don't like LeBron, but quite an accomplishment if you ask me. Can we start Jordan comparisons now? He deserves it more than Kobe (but I like him better). I just think LeBron will outclass Jordan at the end of the day.
Probably so. If a team of engineers wanted to create the perfect NBA robot player who could score, dish the rock, rebound and jump all over the court, they'd construct James. Ever since he went to Miami, I've slowly come to realize he IS the best basketball player of this generation. Period
That's not to be confused with greatest, that title still belongs to Kobe. But NBA championships aside, Lebron is already pretty much even with Kobe as far as accolades and stuff. I could easily see him matching and surpassing Jordan's accomplishments just on talent alone. Lebron will never be the killer that Jordan (and to an extent Kobe) are, but he can be so much more due to his physical gifts.
Kobe and MWP can no longer lock down younger more athletic players consistently so the Lakers can kiss their championship dreams good-bye. The trade for Dwight Howard was for nothing! Now they're just going to pay a bunch of luxury taxes for no reason lolz.
Lol, jk. The Lakers will win another 'ship this year or the next.
Lol, jk. The Lakers will win another 'ship this year or the next.
Last season, the Lakers held their opponents to 95 points a game with Derek Fisher and Ramon Sessions as their point guards. Steve Nash isn't going to hurt the Lakers anymore than they did. If anything, their gonna get better bringing in a 3 time DPOY.
Kobe is the only player declining. Nash is still in his prime and has been improving every season even as he ages because he keeps himself in top shape and his game doesn't require any athleticism. He can't play 35 minutes a game anymore but he's still a top 10 point guard in the league.
I think at this point in his career Kobe is willing to put aside his ego for the team to win another ring. Artest is really cool and he knows he isn't the go-to guy. He jokes around a lot, I've met him and he told me he just lets Kobe be Kobe. I don't see why he would have a problem with Dwight. If you look at the way Kobe didn't really question Mike Brown through bad coaching decisions and the way he's played in the Olympics he's mellowed out a lot. He knows he can't do it alone anymore, I honestly think the only reason he would shoot the team out of games is because they had confidence issues and couldn't shoot and he wound up not trusting them.
I don't think Wade is in his prime anymore. Last year was the beginning of his decline. Obviously, like Kobe he'll still be a great player but not anything like he was before. Kobe and Nash aren't what they used to be, but they're still great enough together to win a ring. If that entire team was in their prime no other roster this year could beat them.
LeBron has a greater natural gifts than Jordan and Kobe. He really could be the greatest of all time. I think it's really up to LeBron now. I have a feeling his stay with the Heat isn't permanent though.
History time!
Lakers great centers with the year they were acquired by LA and year they first won the championships (and difference in years):
Wilt: acquired by LA in 1968, first won cship in 1972 (4 years)
Kareem: acquired by LA in 1975, first won cship 1980 (5 years)
Shaq: acquired by LA in 1996, first won cship 2000 (4 years)
Howard: acquired by LA in 2012, ???? (?)
Just saying this year might not be LA.
Lakers great centers with the year they were acquired by LA and year they first won the championships (and difference in years):
Wilt: acquired by LA in 1968, first won cship in 1972 (4 years)
Kareem: acquired by LA in 1975, first won cship 1980 (5 years)
Shaq: acquired by LA in 1996, first won cship 2000 (4 years)
Howard: acquired by LA in 2012, ???? (?)
Just saying this year might not be LA.
I agree with Kirby for the most part. LAL/OKC is at least somewhat debatable. The Spurs have no shot regardless of whether they blend or not. They're just too damn small.
The Lakers only lost to teams who made the finals after getting Shaq (so they were a massive contender) despite basically only playing offense...they lost when they faced the Jazz who were playing equally good offense and better defense and Spurs who were playing good offense and fantastic defense and had an equally good big man.
Kareem came onto a Lakers team that was 30-52, so surely that team improving to 40-42 and then then 53-29 was not enough, surely they should have been winning championships.
Wilt Chamberlain was too statistic obsessed and self-obsessed to win championships, we all know that.
The Lakers are not necessarily winning it this year, and injuries could wreck this at ANY point. If they come out with the best defense in the league then they are going to make the finals though.
Kareem came onto a Lakers team that was 30-52, so surely that team improving to 40-42 and then then 53-29 was not enough, surely they should have been winning championships.
Wilt Chamberlain was too statistic obsessed and self-obsessed to win championships, we all know that.
The Lakers are not necessarily winning it this year, and injuries could wreck this at ANY point. If they come out with the best defense in the league then they are going to make the finals though.
Even with LA's improvement I'd still call OKC the team to beat out West. While, as far as I know, OKC hasn't done anything very noteworthy this offseason other than drafting Perry Jones (who has a tremendous potential upside, by the way). But, they didn't need to. They still cause matchup problems with every team in the league, especially LA. LA's defense won't be able to keep up with OKC's transition game, should their defense be tough enough to trigger it (which it should). They also cause all kinds of problems in the secondary break and halfcourt sets as every lineup OKC throws out has multiple legitimate scoring options, and with Russell Westbrook's Olympic experience I feel it would be a safe bet to say he'll play the point more efficiently this season.
tl;dr OKC still tops West.
tl;dr OKC still tops West.
It's just awfully coincidental..
lol we're on internet, where everything is just awfully coincidental...
Regular season, yes... but in playoffs, nah... they won't.
They have a team of four all-stars and four guys who can get their shot. There's a team in the East that have done that twice in a row with three despite not playing off of each other all that much.
Their chances in the finals are definitely high.
Their chances in the finals are definitely high.
Having both Ibaka and Perkins to go along with Durant, Westbrook and Harden was really what threw teams through a loop. They could go small or big depending on the need. But now Sam Presti is going to have to choose between Harden and Ibaka to re-up, and unless OKC is going to become a luxury tax team, they won't be able to hang onto both without giving one significantly less. Fortunately for them, all four players are still improving, so they just have to pick the better of the two.
The defending Western Conference Champions are the team to beat. Especially when they stay the same / get a little better over the offseason (The Thunder get Maynor back and drafted PJ3.
Also, Perkins has always kept Dwight in check (Dwight averages only 16 points instead of 21). Steve Nash can't defend Westbrook, Westbrook's pullup jumper will almost negate Dwight's presence in the paint, Harden and Thabo can defend Kobe well and Durant is Durant soooo.... the Thunder just match up too well for somebody to think the Lakers are better at this point. Not to mention that Kobe and Dwight both have big egos and Dwight is also coming off an injury.
Also, Perkins has always kept Dwight in check (Dwight averages only 16 points instead of 21). Steve Nash can't defend Westbrook, Westbrook's pullup jumper will almost negate Dwight's presence in the paint, Harden and Thabo can defend Kobe well and Durant is Durant soooo.... the Thunder just match up too well for somebody to think the Lakers are better at this point. Not to mention that Kobe and Dwight both have big egos and Dwight is also coming off an injury.
Why are the Thunder the team to beat? The NBA has consistently shown that experienced talent, especially experienced defensive talent, can trump a slightly better, much more inexperienced talent.
Neither the Celtics or Heat had plans that relied on a 38 year old, I get that. That 38 year old just came off of three straight years of 12 A/36 and the Celtics addition of Garnett is analogous to the addition of Howard, who is younger and has a higher roof, but plays less efficiently/experienced. The only better player added to either team overall was Lebron. Lakers are the team to beat unless something is still not clicking 20 games into the season, talent assortments like this already swung 4/10 finalists in the last 5 years!
Neither the Celtics or Heat had plans that relied on a 38 year old, I get that. That 38 year old just came off of three straight years of 12 A/36 and the Celtics addition of Garnett is analogous to the addition of Howard, who is younger and has a higher roof, but plays less efficiently/experienced. The only better player added to either team overall was Lebron. Lakers are the team to beat unless something is still not clicking 20 games into the season, talent assortments like this already swung 4/10 finalists in the last 5 years!
DerrickRose, we're talking about Kobe/Howard/Artest here. Even Gasol will have his own sulking problems when he doesn't get the ball. Celtics guys have great chemistry from the start. The only chance for the Lakers to have great chemistry is through Nash, and as a Thunder fan, I hope his age will fail him.
CK, I know talents take over NBA.. Collection of talents is the thing nowadays. But I think, the 2013 Thunder is also a collection of talent PLUS a collection of young but very good role players. Thunder is still the team to beat in the West.
CK, I know talents take over NBA.. Collection of talents is the thing nowadays. But I think, the 2013 Thunder is also a collection of talent PLUS a collection of young but very good role players. Thunder is still the team to beat in the West.
Team to beat =/= highest odds of getting out.
Dwight doesn't have a big ego. I've watched him with the Magic for years. He conceded to not taking big shots due to having a bad FT%.
Second, that is not how to analyze a match-up. People still forget that the Magic had the worst perimeter defenders while having a consistent top 3 defense. Want to know something else interesting? They actually have great regular season beatdowns on OKC as well.
Dwight takes all of their stuff away from the rim, and he doesn't have to score 20 to win a match-up with Perkins and Ibaka. The fact that the Lakers have two bigs that can score while the Thunder don't could still be a potential issue.
The difference between Bynum/Dwight isn't through offense; it's through defense. Dwight is more mobile, blocks more shots, and forces you to take more long 2's.
I'm still not sure what makes you think they'll have bad chemistry. What reason do you have at this point? You didn't say anything other than "but it's those guys!"
'Coz chemistry will be the main issue when you have multiple superstars in your team (eg, last season's Knicks, old Malone/Payton @ Lakers, Heat trio's first year - the last 2 reached Finals but chemistry issues were well documented).. Boston I believe is the only team that has immediate success after their collaboration. This Lakers team will have lot of questions to answer to begin with: who's the alpha dog, Howard or Kobe? Ball in Nash's or Kobe's hand? If ball with Nash, will Kobe be a better player off the ball? Will Gasol fit in as 3rd/4th offensive option? Can Artest/Jamison consistently shoot those wide open corner 3s? Can anybody else outside of Howard defend anybody in the contenders' list?
The biggest strength of this team will be Nash-Howard and Nash-Gasol connections? Will Kobe be okay with that as the no. 1 option?
We've seen Mike Brown failed many times on his sets last year... Will he be okay? Can he put the ball out of Kobe's hands? Is it time to bring back Phil Jackson?
The chemistry issue is not just a random issue.. It will always be there for them. To declare them team to beat is one or two years too early.
Aside from chemistry issues, how about their defense? You know, the thing we ignored on the Thunder/Spurs WCF match-up, where everybody declared it'll be Spurs because that offense was awesome. Outside of Howard, everybody is mediocre at best. In a league of wing players, I don't know how'll they fair against them if they feature old Nash (worst)/ old Kobe (mediocre) / old Artest (mediocre) at wing defense? Howard can help, but it can only take them not too far...
The biggest strength of this team will be Nash-Howard and Nash-Gasol connections? Will Kobe be okay with that as the no. 1 option?
We've seen Mike Brown failed many times on his sets last year... Will he be okay? Can he put the ball out of Kobe's hands? Is it time to bring back Phil Jackson?
The chemistry issue is not just a random issue.. It will always be there for them. To declare them team to beat is one or two years too early.
Aside from chemistry issues, how about their defense? You know, the thing we ignored on the Thunder/Spurs WCF match-up, where everybody declared it'll be Spurs because that offense was awesome. Outside of Howard, everybody is mediocre at best. In a league of wing players, I don't know how'll they fair against them if they feature old Nash (worst)/ old Kobe (mediocre) / old Artest (mediocre) at wing defense? Howard can help, but it can only take them not too far...
I had a massive ass post typed up but it's literally almost identical to this so you've saved me the trouble.
Vein, you're telling me Kobe and Artest are mediocre defenders? Haha they may have lost a step but they're still above average. The Magic had fuck all talented perimeter defenders (noone as good as Kobe or Artest certainly) and have been a top 3 defensive squad for many years. Last season the Magic gave up 11 less points in the paint per 48 when he was on the floor. Howard is quick enough to defend the pick and roll and can guard pretty much any position on the switch. That and his strength at running the pick and roll with Nash make me jizz myself as a Lakers fan.
I don't see why Vein is clutching at straws here with his "chemistry" point, not saying that it'll be smooth from the get go but it could work well from the outset, and almost certainly will at some point! Kobe acknowledged that DH was the future of the franchise and would get a lot of touches from the get go. On paper this team is from top to bottom flat out better then the Heat last year so it's up to their chemistry (and how much the Thunder's young talent continues to improve) that will control their destiny.
Also here's some amazing news for my fellow Lakers fans :) http://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/y407u/robert_klapper_chief_of_spine_surgery_at_cedar/ looks like DH will be good for the opener!
Even despite those chemistry issues for the Heat, they still reached the finals.
And this is assuming that they will have chemistry issues. That's being generous.
Out of two teams that have tried it so far? So we have a success rate of at least making the finals for two teams. <_<
Howard isn't a closer with his FT%
Both players are smart enough to figure it out.
The only legitimate question you've asked.
The second legitimate question.
Nobody could for the Magic. They have infinitely worse defenders than the Lakers and look at how they turned out in their prime years.
People need to stop using defense as an excuse. If you have Howard, your defense is automatically top 5. It doesn't matter who your defenders are. The reason why Dwight is a top player is because of his defense, not offense.
I suppose this is another legitimate question.
Erik Spoelstra.
Already spoke on defense. Am I the only person that watches Dwight Howard before he got traded or something?
You guys really have no idea why he's a superstar, do you?