What if u got the pokesav'd poke from a trade. I never used AR on my game though.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Official Nintendo Pokemon Tournament
- Thread starter Forsety
- Start date
- Status
For those of those paralyzed in fear of Smeargle + Bronzong guaranteed setups, consider something maybe like this:
Ambipom
-Fake Out
-Double Hit
-
-
Gengar
-Taunt
-
-
-
A lot of it is filler, but this is just an explanatory set. Use Double Hit on Smeargle and Taunt on Bronzong (or otherwise). If Smeargle uses Follow Me, Double Hit will strike first and kill it, then Taunt will go to Bronzong. If Smeargle uses Fake Out, it can only conceivably be for Ambipom, so Taunt will once again be free to go to Bronzong. Apologies if this strategy is already common knowledge.
EDIT: Ah, my mistake. I should have investigated that before posting.
Ambipom
-Fake Out
-Double Hit
-
-
Gengar
-Taunt
-
-
-
A lot of it is filler, but this is just an explanatory set. Use Double Hit on Smeargle and Taunt on Bronzong (or otherwise). If Smeargle uses Follow Me, Double Hit will strike first and kill it, then Taunt will go to Bronzong. If Smeargle uses Fake Out, it can only conceivably be for Ambipom, so Taunt will once again be free to go to Bronzong. Apologies if this strategy is already common knowledge.
EDIT: Ah, my mistake. I should have investigated that before posting.
I remember from a post made in the research thread a long time ago that the Focus Sash protects against all the hits of a multi-hit move, not just the first. So no, Double Hit won't take out a sashed Smeargle.
i can confirm this. Just Double Hitted a Sashed Deoxys yesterday and it survived with it with focus sash. Theres pretty much nothing you can do to stop smeargle bronzong
Well, there is opening with two multi-target hitters... CB Rampardos\Pinsir with EQ + Charizard with Heat Wave could take both out, for example. Not that those two make good doubles leads aside from that purpose.
p.s. Unless Smeargle uses Fake Out on one of the two. :(
No, the user could fake out Rampardos/Pinsir and Heat Wave won't ko Bronzong. As already said multi-hit moves do not go through focus sash, and even if it did, the Taunt would go to the pokemon that replaces Smeargle, I tried it.
Follow Me/Trick Room is a good combo, but not unstoppable. Just have your own Trick Room user and use Trick Room to cancel the effects of the opponent Bronzong's Trick Room. In the meantime you can bring Smeargle down to 1 HP or put it to sleep.
Smeargle Bronzong can still be crippled if both pokemon use attack moves, Fake Out to Smeargle and any other attack also. Even with Trick Room up, they will only have 3 pokemon to your 4; you can Protect stall them out so they only really have 2 turns (In the short Trick Room time they probably will not use stat-increasing moves) and then finish.
I think the Rain Dance team from the Japanese final could have won if the player fought similarly. The Gyarados directed Taunt at Bronzong, expecting Smeargle to use Fake Out, when it clearly wouldn't do so with such an obvious Fake Out user as Ludicolo on the field. That mistake probably cost him the match.
Shuckle is also a counter for the Trick Room leads, being faster than anything when it is up and using Encore to force Bronzong to reverse it. But Shuckle really NEEDS that TR speed, and isn't that great anyway. Wobbuffet can do the same thing, outspeeding Bronzong if it has a Macho Brace and Encoring it the next turn.
I think the Rain Dance team from the Japanese final could have won if the player fought similarly. The Gyarados directed Taunt at Bronzong, expecting Smeargle to use Fake Out, when it clearly wouldn't do so with such an obvious Fake Out user as Ludicolo on the field. That mistake probably cost him the match.
Shuckle is also a counter for the Trick Room leads, being faster than anything when it is up and using Encore to force Bronzong to reverse it. But Shuckle really NEEDS that TR speed, and isn't that great anyway. Wobbuffet can do the same thing, outspeeding Bronzong if it has a Macho Brace and Encoring it the next turn.
Well, No Gaurd Machamp has a 50% chance to go through your Protect with Dynamic Punch and a 20% chance to hit with Stone edge(That's unlikely though) so Protect won't automatically stall out Trick Room. Yes, the main/only consistant way to beat Trick Room teams in this 4v4 environment, as opposed to Stadium Mode or 6v6, is to use Imprison, and who is to say that the Trick Room user leads with Bronzong? Maybe he realizes the threat of Imprison and decides to use Dusknoir with Speed ev's to outspeed your Dusknoir and use Imprison first. Or maybe he decides to EV his Bronzong in Speed to outspeed your Dusknoir so he can Imprison. This also makes sweeping when Trick Room is in effect easier because the opponent can't try to outstall you with Protect like Ashenlock said. I honestly think that in this environment, one has to use Trick Room or Imprison if they want to win.
What if the Smeargle uses Fake Out on your Smeargle?
Or Trick Room and Imprison. It isn't impossible to have pokemon both faster than Trick Room teams and slower than sweeper teams. The moves can work in tandem to beat all.
Just curious, if both pokemon have Imprison, and one is faster and uses Imprison first, is the other pokemon's Imprison imprisoned?
If I'm not mistaken, the final round is being played using PBR, where No Guard does not allow hits through Protect and Detect. This shouldn't matter much, but I thought it should be mentioned.
That's what I'm saying, using the TR side to beat all teams that are weak to TR(Most) and the Imprison side to beat everything that TR can't. And to answer your question yes, the the other Pokemon's Imprison is Imprisoned. The main thing to decide though is whether to use Bronzong or Dusknoir.
Bronzong:
-More consistant at setting up TR
-Has levitate
-Good resistances
-Hypnosis
-Slower Imprisoner
-I knew I was forgetting something, thanks Tri-DarkSouls. Explosion!
Dusknoir:
-Immune to Fake Out(And explosion)
-Is a faster Imprisoner
-If you want to get the Seargle endeaver combo off Dusknoir would have to drop Shadow Sneak from its moveset
-Worse resistances than Bronzong and less consistant at setting up TR
Don't get me wrong though, by less consistant than Bronzong, I don't mean isn't consistant. Bronzong is just the best and Dusknoir is the second best.
Yeah, I hated that glitch when I was using Machamp on there a long time ago. I wasn't aware that the finals were being played on PBR though. Honestly, if they are, that imo makes Machamp less useful in TR since one of the main reasons to use him, Dynamic Punching through Protects off of monstorous attack(And encore, a very potent move) is useless.
There are ways to beat every strategy. If you want to keep Trick Room from happening so badly, why not just put the Bronzong/Dusknoir to sleep? Use a level 50 Smeargle with Dark Void, then use a slightly slower Pokémon to Copycat Dark Void. Their Trick Room user will be asleep with 64% accuracy even with a Lum or Chesto Berry.
Lack of Sleep Clause amuses me.
Lack of Sleep Clause amuses me.
How would you stop Fake Out? The only pokemon immune to Fake out that learns Copycat or Dark Void is Lucario, but then the Smeargle would use Fake Out on your Smeargle, making no Dark Voids activate. The best case scenario is if your Lucario copycatted Fake Out and the opponent had Bronzong>Dusknoir and(I assume that Lucario's coppycatted Fake Out would have a random target?) it would hit Bronzong instead of Smeargle causing it to flinch. That whole thing though would be stopped if the opponent used Smeargle+Dusknoir
Well if you predict a Fake Out, I guess you'd better not use those moves. Instead you could use your Smeargle to Fake Out their Smeargle and use Taunt or something with your other Pokémon. If you're looking for a strategy that doesn't require you to use prediction at all, you're out of luck.
I wouldn't worry much about it in general. Seems to me that everybody and their uncle is using a Trick Room team at this tourney. I'm guessing they'll all be more-or-less on an even footing.
Yeah, atleast the good players/most people from Smogon are using Trick Room, I don't know about the Random nubs from wherever site, I figure some crappy team that they may have coppied from some Cipher Admin in Pokemon colosseum, lol. Like that Earthquake team or Rain Dance team, along with Mirror B, they were hard as hell, lol.
The way I see it, it's just unfortunate that it's not Stadium mode. If it were, Trick Room wouldn't be one of the only options. At least in Stadium mode you can dedicate pokemon to stopping Trick Room teams, but in 4v4, it's much harder to do.
The way I see it, it's just unfortunate that it's not Stadium mode. If it were, Trick Room wouldn't be one of the only options. At least in Stadium mode you can dedicate pokemon to stopping Trick Room teams, but in 4v4, it's much harder to do.
What set would be usable for a dusknoir anyways?
I was making one for a smeargle/dusknoir combo, but I was stuck with a few moves:
Imprison
TR
Protect
Icebeam
This is what I have currently, but I feel like it is taunt weak. That is why smeargle would have follow me. But then dusknoir attacking capacity is somewhat limited.
I was making one for a smeargle/dusknoir combo, but I was stuck with a few moves:
Imprison
TR
Protect
Icebeam
This is what I have currently, but I feel like it is taunt weak. That is why smeargle would have follow me. But then dusknoir attacking capacity is somewhat limited.
Dusknoir isn't really supposed to do much attacking other than Shadow Sneak(If you choose it) or <insert Elemental Punch of your choice here> in order to pull off the Smeargle endeaver combo. If you choose Shadow Sneak it's harder to pull off, but it's useful against Non-Normal type Sashes and Gengar/Azelf. The Elemental Punch means that Smeargle will go first so you endeaver and then use Dusknoir's elemental Punch to finish it off while the other(Or both) pokemon is sleeping. Ice Beam is useless because of his low Special attack unless you have something like Garchomp or another Ice weak on your team where it actually helps to Imprison Ice Beam. At least the Elemental Punches are somewhat common so it can be useful to imprison them.
If the opponent is using Smeargle, it will see that you also have a Smeargle and that your best choice is to Fake Out. They won't expect a Copycat second pokemon, they will think you're trying to attack. So the enemy Smeargle will instead use Follow Me.
???
Sorry, I just don't understand x_x. I guess the wording is confusing me. But what I was trying to say is that Trick Room is going to go off no matter what, other than the ways I already mentioned earlier in the thread, but they can even be stopped if you use Dusknoir>Bronzong.
- Status