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Data Official Smogon University Simulator Statistics — November 2013

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Antar, Dec 3, 2013.

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  1. Aldaron

    Aldaron All da lil birdies chirpin
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    wow nearly 3 million (like 2.85 or something) OU battles...

    didn't ou have in the range of ~1.2 million last gen (only checked one month, september)

    I don't think UU + RU + NU adds up to like 1.8ish million battles lol so that means online pokemon is just continuing to grow

    cool shit
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  2. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    MCBarrett
    Look at the numbers. All it's saying is that Talonflame only has two statisically significant teammates, but since I report the top 10, it has to keep going.
  3. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    To answer a question that was deleted (because if one person asked, then others will probably ask), Teammate stats are calculated not based on percentages of times that two Pokemon appear together but rather by the percentage difference between how often they appear together vs. how often they appear IN GENERAL. So yes, Talonflame might get paired most often with Aegislash, but Aegislash is paired most often with MOST Pokemon, since it's #2 in the rankings, so that's not significant.
  4. Albacore

    Albacore

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    Thanks for clarifying.

    I'm still surprised that Talonflame users don't seem to particularly care about Stealth Rock.

    Then again, not too much gets access to it at the moment.
  5. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    Albacore (and MCBarrett as well), you'll notice a few spinners on Talonflame's list of partners in Pokebank OU (which I suspect is what most competitive players gravitate towards):

    But in general, this kind of thing is why we won't be basing tiers off these numbers any time soon.

    Edit: Another reason could be the lack of Stealth Rock users in Prebank. No move tutor, no TM means Stealth Rock has a pretty limited distribution.
  6. neato

    neato

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    greninja will drop. or at the very least from being a lead. it is a good late game sweeper, but how people are using it now, its not a very worthwhile pokemon.
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  7. SuperMegaUltra

    SuperMegaUltra

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    I agree that it'll drop but to say it's not worthwhile is a little crazy. It's got a diverse movepool and gets STAB on every attacking move and makes for an okay spiker.
    I say it'll end up being this gen's Infernape. Good on the right team, but in the mid 20's
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  8. Selena Gomaz

    Selena Gomaz

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    It really pains me that people don't understand why Talonflame is so high and say things without knowing why. Its the same people that didn't understand why Mega Gnegar should be banned. Just because YOU don't understand the potential of a Pokemon doesn't mean others haven't. Take a look at some of the best players using Talonflame and you'll understand.
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  9. MagicMissingno

    MagicMissingno

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    Oi, I'm just waiting for the Xerneas hype to die out in Ubers. It's a good Pokemon, but Geomancy makes it a one-time deal. Neither the official game nor the Pokebank game has it with a scarf rating at above 2%. This thing works wonders with a scarf people!
  10. Albacore

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    I'm surprised Rotom-W isn't listed among Talonflame's 10 biggest counters. Then again, nearly all rock types counter it.
  11. y2zipper

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    Still a lot of Talonflame in the Pokebank OU. What I've found is that it isn't hard to get rid of hazards this day and age. Mold Breaker Excadrill and all the Defogger out there (especially with Scizor now getting it) make it easy to get all those rocks off the field.

    Talonflame's good matchup against Scizor also puts it over, and it can use u-turn if banded to hit Tyra Iyar super effective.

    I'm personally pretty underwhelmed with Aegslash, very impressed with the threat the new Khangaskan brings not surprised that the absurd mega-gengar is gone.
  12. Salt

    Salt

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    I feel the need to address this because I was the one who initially brought up Talonflame here. Don't assume that people don't know the potential of Talonflame, because it's abundantly clear that he's a potent threat. He has quite a lot going for him with access to one of the most powerful priority moves in the game, along with multiple boosting options and a decent amount of support moves. I just don't think Talonflame deserves to be the second most OU Pokemon, because it also has numerous downsides, including a 4x Stealth Rock weakness, virtually no attacking options outside of STAB moves, extreme frailty and so on. Talonflame is certainly powerful, but isn't a mon that you can just stick on a team and expect to see results.
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  13. MagicMissingno

    MagicMissingno

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    You know, sometimes I wonder what the usages would look like if Stealth Rock wasn't around.
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  14. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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  15. OrangeCrush0x00

    OrangeCrush0x00

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    I think the metagame will shift towards more Stealth Rocks to counter Talonflame.
  16. Homeslice

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    Is it possible to find the usage of Mega Evolutions in the future? I understand you can go into the Moveset Statistics but I think it'd be easier to put it right in the usage stats so we can easily see the amount of, say, Normal Gengar vs the ones that Mega Evolve.
  17. MagicMissingno

    MagicMissingno

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  18. Selena Gomaz

    Selena Gomaz

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    Talonflames upside outweighs the downside. Talonflame has the strongest priority move allowing it to easily clean up 2-4 Pokemon even after Stealth Rock damage while equipped with a Choice Band. The fact that you're denying Talonflames niche based role clearly means that you have no idea how to properly use it and you have no idea how to construct a team in such a manner that will allow Talonflame to mop up late game. Being frail means nothing when it is one of the fastest priority users as it will outspeed opposing +1 priority users and takes neutral/resists other priority users.
  19. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    Homeslice I may consider doing a special stat showing the prevalence of Mega Stones (filtering out the trolls who put the wrong stone on the wrong item) so people don't have to go digging through the moveset stats, but I won't differentiate megas from their normal forms, since (1) you can't see Mega Evolutions in Team Preview*, (2) a Pokemon may or may not Mega Evolve in a battle, and there are (possibly?) sets that rely on a Pokemon spending time in each form, and (3) at the end of the day, Mega Stones are ITEMS. We don't separately list Specs Dragonite and Leftovers Dragonite, even though they play very differently.*

    *By these argument I should count all the Arceii together, but let's not pull at that thread, shall we?


    Hey folks (namely Salt the Flesh, selena gomez, OrangeCrush0x00, y2zipper and MagicMissingno), Talonflame has its own discussion thread. If you feel like debating its merits, please move the party there.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
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  20. Ajwf

    Ajwf

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    One of the most fantastic notes to me is the doubling of stall's usage in Pokebank compared to last. Yes, yes, the results were skewered but stall didn't even exist prior to this month. Now, the 3% pure stall (discounting weather and such) speaks that the meta is settling in as stall generally flourishes in a more stable metagame.

    But the shifts are also evening out, as seen in the stall statistic. In last month's eight day, not even .5% got to the 2.5 mark, but now we have some teams hitting the 3.0 mark.
    While this balance is still rather unhealthy, it is more practical than it had been and the general stall rank is actually at balanced right now, although this is due to the lack of any team being able to become more offensive than -2.0 and the huge saturation of teams right around 0.0 and -0.5. I'd hope to see the usage near +2.0 double in the next month with the lack of mega gengar and the meta's sign of settling down.

    To the donphan question, there are some easy answers:
    A.) Donphan can take the #1 web users on by himself (though sleep sucks still). Galvantula loses a stab against him and gets rocked by head smash/rock slide/stone edge. In the pokebank OU, donphan is 28th in usage with roughly 21% of the moves used is being allotted to a rock move not named stealth rock. This allows him to deal with major threats such as Talonflame, galvantula (#8 and #5 in leads respectively) and also put rocks on the field. He is also listed as one of the best counters to aegislash in pokebank.
    B.) Donphan's major weaknesses (Ice, water, grass) are a bit lower than usual, bar rotom-wash. Rain is low in usage, hail is almost gone, and grass pokemon rarely lead... And are also a bit low considering fairies now also carry cure moves that were generally limited to normal and grass types (aka aromatherapy/Synthesis). Even the decline of sun has HELPED donphan as there aren't as many clorophyll sweepers. And the only weather left, sand, is boosting him by letting him not take passive damage and abuse edgequake combos.

    On the note of Aegislash, from pokebank OU, people are starting to note just slightly Aegi's special side, but only in terms of Mixed aegi. The total special based aegis in meta right now are:
    | Quiet:252/4/0/252/0/0 2.349% |

    And the only special moves seen?

    | Shadow Ball 19.804% |
    | Flash Cannon 5.129% |

    Shadow ball has become a haymaker for a lot of intimidate switches and even some pokes like Lando-t with enough physical bulk not to bother with any physical aegi attacks. However, flash cannon is probably almost exclusive to special sets/lures as the steel typing isn't necessarily good.

    The low special side usage, however, is probably a direct result from the physical side seeming very hard to stop. The last counter listed, heatran, only succeeds in counter/checking 60% of the time, suggesting a 40% rate KO? Regardless, he is only performing the KO 30% of the time.
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  21. Salt

    Salt

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    Back on the topic of the stats, I have a question regarding tiers. I know its too early right now to start a UU tier, but because there are so many new things coming to light that are completely drowning out many of the top OU mons from last gen. Would the cut-off for OU be any different because off all of the new things, or would we just wait several months for the metagame to settle before we split it up? I wasn't around the beginning of last gen and would like a general idea of when UU would be available because I'm generally more of a UU player.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2013
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  22. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    Salt the Flesh, here's some history as to the 3.41% cutoff. tl;dr -- It corresponds to the point at which you have at least a 50% chance of going 20 battles without seeing that particular Pokemon, and the number "20" was chosen arbitrarily, though it corresponds to the desired OU size of ~50.

    Now to answer your question, I don't think it's particularly likely that we are going to either lower or raise the cutoff. What will happen instead is most likely the same "power creep" we saw in the transition from Gen IV to Gen V, where Gen V UU resembled Gen IV OU much more than it resembled Gen IV UU.

    As for *when* we're getting an initial UU, I wouldn't hold my breath. Starting February 1 (after three full months of stats), I'll begin publishing an "Unofficial UU" list, and I'll update it each month based on the three months preceding each release date. "Unofficial UU" will become "Official UU" when the various councils have decided that OU is stable enough--and has been stable enough for long enough--that it makes sense to open up the new tier. The time-frame I've heard bandied about is about six months. It could be longer. It almost CERTAINLY won't be shorter.
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  23. Karpi

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    I know we're not supposed to draw any conclusions or generalize yet at risk of getting our posts deleted, but I think I can safely say that 4% is a low number. Which is the percentage of Talonflame that use Will-o-wisp.

    I highly recommend trying this move out. If you look at the pokemon that switch into Talonflame the most, all but 2 (Slowbro and Ampharos) are absolutely terrified of getting burned. It does appear to have terrible 4-moveslot-syndrome, but I really think more people should consider Will-o-wisp. I have never regretted having it, at least. You get to burn Tyranitars like no other!

    Also, after having fought a few teams with Clefable, it's surprisingly decent. I suspect that you have to either invest fully in one of either Def OR Sp Def and neglect the other, but it appears that you can be bulky on one side and use Clefable really effectively if the rest of your team backs it up.

    EDIT: I lol'd when Klefki's most common teammates were Liepard and Whimsicott. I'm not complaining about this, it just amuses me.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
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  24. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo stall is to like mozart as heavy offense is to justin bieber
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    talons bb IS stronger than arceus espeed by a fair bit so it's safe to call it the strongest priority
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  25. tailszero

    tailszero

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    Interesting to see the count of Shedinja's increasing in Ubers. It is probably one of the reasons Hidden power fire use is increasing on xerneas.
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