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Data Official Smogon University Simulator Statistics — November 2013

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Antar, Dec 3, 2013.

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  1. 6feetunder

    6feetunder

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    Clefable is most likely not seeing as much usage in pre-pokebank OU due to the lack of softboiled.

    The problem with Absol as a magic bouncer is that it can't actually bounce anything until it mega evolves. Espeon doesn't have this problem.
  2. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Mega Gengar's ability is Shadow Tag
  3. Magnemite

    Magnemite swanna master
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    Having used a Drizzleswim team, I have to say that this is surprisingly not really the case. Unless you're using Politoed without Damp Rock (don't do that) you still have quite a few turns at your disposal. Poli is also far from dead weight. Its fantastic support movepool is absolutely fantastic, which is invaluable to the success of the rain abusers. Encore provides fantastic and much-needed momentum, especially since people love to toxic Politoed. It's much easier than it sounds to bring in sweepers because of how good Politoed is at grabbing momentum. Additionally, you really only need to bring it in a few times per match, given how immediately threatening the rain abusers are and how short matches tend to be with offensive rain teams. Obviously, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Kabutops, and friends are incredibly difficult to switch into, let alone revenge kill. In rain, Manaphy can always get to +6 relatively quickly against anything that can't 2HKO it due to Hydration+ Rest. I certainly reccomend trying out a Drizzle team; they're really underrated right now. (Never thought I would say that, haha)
  4. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    Going through the moveset statistics for the top 6 (for Pokebank), some things I'm noticing:
    Moveset (open)


    • Rotom-W: It appears to be using mainly the Bulky Attacker set that's first on the Strategy Dex (albeit with an "automated" EV spread it seems). It also seems like a main part of a VoltTurn core, with Gene, Lando-T, and Scizor the top 3 teammates. I would also assume its main use is to check other threats rather than be a threat itself, since people are countering it hard with virtually any Grass-type.
    • Talonflame: Interesting that Flying Gem is the most common item, considering there's no guarantee Flying Gem will even be available this time next month. It still seems to be used on "new toy" teams (Kanga, Greninja, Aegi top 3 partners), but Excadrill seems to be rising as a partner, likely for spinning purposes. Rock-types still seem like the most reliable counters even though Rotom-W is #1 in usage overall.
    • Aegislash: Last weeks number 1 still appears to be primarily utilizing the SD set rather than use Shadow Ball. It like Talonflame, seems to be part of that "new toy" team of Kanga, Ninja, Aegis, and Talon, but doesn't have anyone else rising as prime teammates yet. Mandibuzz is probably closer to a true "counter" than Gliscor or Quagsire, the other two of the top three, but I commented on those two last month.
    • Gengar: Megagar was recently banned due to the ease of its trapping support, and although people generally preferred it as an attacker (Sub was barely the most common move), there were literally no significant teammates that showed up, meaning that as of right now, it was working on pretty much any team that appreciated trapping (which is a lot). Counters don't really matter for something that's trapping you, since you can't choose the counter you want when facing him, but I was noticing a lot of priority and just generally fast Pokemon there.
    • Greninja: The Special LO set is the most common, which isn't really that surprising, the teammates follow the same trend as Talonflame and Aegislash, but most interesting for me is that specially bulky Normal and Fairy-types seem to be how people are handling him at the moment, since he doesn't really carry Fighting, Poison, or Steel type moves to handle them.
    • Kangaskhan: Fake Out isn't in the main moveset (I'm guessing) which surprises me, since I figured they would like the user-friendly nature of the move (though I'm not complaining). I see a bit more of that 4 I've been going on and on about, although he is the new addition to that group. Interestingly enough, Scolipede and Genesect are rising as partners for him, not super significant yet, but more than I've seen from the other main Mega. Checks seem to be mainly Fighting types, with a few Ghosts sprinkled in, and bonus points to the Fighting-types that resist Normal (Terrakion and Lucario). However, on the whole he seems harder to check than the others I've talked about, with the bottom check given a score of under 52 (compare that to 82 of Rotom-W), implying he is one of the bigger (if not biggest) threats in this current metagame.

    And the top and bottom weights I did last year
    Top 10 (open)

    1. Landorus-T +122.013%
    2. Landorus +116.415%
    3. Genesect
    4. Thundurus
    5. Deoxys-S
    6. Latias
    7. Rotom-W
    8. Keldeo
    9. Heatran
    10. Kyurem-B
    Thoughts: This list looks a lot like the Gen V one, where Landorus-T, Latias, Keldeo, Rotom-W, and Heatran all were on this list. Now it's supplemented by former ubers Genesect, Landorus, Thundurus, and Deoxys-S, while other strong pokemon like Kyurem-B are on the list as well.
    Bottom 10 (open)

    1. Cloyster
    2. Espeon
    3. Forretress
    4. Alakazam
    5. Salamence
    6. Volcarona
    7. Blissey
    8. Infernape
    9. Sylveon
    10. Breloom
    Thoughts: Sylveon being the only Gen VI Pokemon here is interesting, and its presence could just be because it's an Eeveelution, given Espeon's higher rank. The rest are Gen V OUers who were either low in weighting before (Cloyster, Alakazam, Infernape), or were nerfed in some form in Gen VI (Forretress, Breloom).
  5. Zero Hour 17

    Zero Hour 17

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    Wow this has to be the first time in years Scizor hasn't been in the top ten. With all the Talonflame usage Heatran is going to definitely get used a ton.
  6. Magnemite

    Magnemite swanna master
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    Fixed. Genesect may or may not be broken, but it's still ridiculously good. The only Pokemon that never take much damage from its attacks no matter what boosts it has are Heatran and physically defensive Chansey. However, it isn't too hard to play around if you predict well enough and is much easier to check offensively.

    I recall reading that someone in the Battle Maison had a Tornadus with Aeroblast. Can anyone confirm/deny this? If it does get it, it just went from being mediocre outside of rain to great even on weatherless.
  7. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    It shows it as an ability for Gengar, not M-Gengar. It's apparently an error that happened for... some reason.
  8. MudcrabDL

    MudcrabDL

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    Just a note on the Mandibuzz discussion, as far as Defog users go, I'm thinking Mandibuzz will start heading to the top of the list. Her fantastic bulk lets her come in multiple times throughout the battle and Defog, and STAB Foul Play gives her a great niche in taking down dancers like SD Aegislash and DD dragonite. Hell, even Kangaskhan has trouble KOing the vulture, and after PUP, can take a huge beating from Foul Play. Her ability to tank Rock moves is also rather incredible, taking a little under 50% from a T tars Stone Edge. I'm actually starting to wonder if she could pull off a Weakness Policy set too, though I currently run Defog, Taunt, Foul Play and Roost.
  9. Ajwf

    Ajwf

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    Having used mandi, zapdos, and skarm as defog users now, I can honestly say that Mandi doesn't quite top the list right now. Unfortunately, to counter a pokemon like lucario or pinsir, pokemon like zapdos/skarm are better options. Mandi has a bit of a 4mss issue, wanting to use about 6 different moves. After the meta cools down a bit and we determine the fate of some of the megas still in OU, I think THEN mandi can come out and play more.

    On that note, I was surprised by Zapdos' relative low usage being one of the two best pinsir-mega counters (Who, btw, if kan goes will have a renaissance). I think people are using skarm as an all-in-one physical mega counter.
  10. KaminkoMcMad

    KaminkoMcMad

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    @Calm_Mind_Latias I would for the most part say that the speed distribution split at 100 is very true of Gen V and consequentially true of Gen VI at this stage. I did some more looking at EV spreads, and while this isn't totally true because of pokemon like Hydreigon(all sets seem to run max speed) and Mamoswine(more mamoswines are running max speed than Brelooms), I do have to say that for the majority of pokemon <20% of all sets run max speed. And those that aren't normally are not very competitive pokemon(gardevoir for example), suggesting that they might work at lower player ratings, or are things like Dnite, Gyrados, or scarfers. (another exception is Diggersby, where 50% run max speed). So yes, there does seem to be a bit of a "Bimodal distribution" with all pokemon over 100 running max speed, all under more mixed.

    I'm not entirely sure I agree with this in the current metagame though. If there is one thing that has gained a lot of power in Gen VI, it is Priority, with pokemon like M-Lucario, M-Kanga, M-Mawile, and Talonflame terrifying all pokemon no matter how fast, unless they have priority of their own. IMO, it is holding hyper fast offensive teams in check more than sticky web(which people said would do this) is. And if you look at the integral of the graph I made, it is immediately apparent that the clear majority of pokemon you will see will be below base 100. Not to say Aegislash has any business running much speed, but I think there is a point to running some speed, for example Excadrill must run speed to ensure it outspeeds non-scarf Rotom-W, this dynamic should be seen much more with the highly populated and crowded base 70-99 region in which the majority of pokemon in this generation currently fall.
  11. OrangeCrush0x00

    OrangeCrush0x00

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    Mega Ampharos eats Talonflame for breakfast. Now that M-Gengar got banned and M-Kanga and Lucario will probably follow, the lesser megas will start getting some recognition.
  12. Mood4food77

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    mandibuzz could see a lot of usage due to the nerf to steel types, it's one of the few pokemon (maybe the only one...not too sure) that resists dark and ghost but isn't weak to fighting, this is pretty big especially when aegislash and gengar are everywhere, and to top it off, it's got really good bulk and just a good enough attack stat to deal some damage to those two

    i don't see it be a real good defog user though, being weak to SR really hurts it, it also doesn't have really stupid bulk (like avalugg does physically) to keep switching in get rid of rocks, i see skarmory, scizor, gliscor, and empoleon being better defog users (and of course, spinners)

    so i see mandibuzz being used more to counter the ghost pokemon than being used as anything else, especially when ghosts hit almost everything for at least neutral damage
  13. Antar

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    So I'm cutting off the Mandibuzz discussion, Mood4food77, MudcrabDL, Ajwf and everyone else. Any further posts discussing it will be deleted from this thread. If you want to continue to discuss its relative merits, do so in the Mandibuzz thread.
  14. Magnemite

    Magnemite swanna master
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    Zapdos's low usage is because Thundurus and Thundurus-T exist. They're not getting high usage at all though either, because...? Ah, whatever. The ladder works in mysterious ways, I guess. Apparently, to the average ladder player, Klefki is a better Prankster user than Thundurus-I. >.>

    Granted, I know you were taking about defensive Zapdos, so they're not the most equal comparisons, but defensive Zapdos always accounts for a rather small portion of Zapdos usage, so on most teams it would be better to use the Thundurus formes. I find Skarmory to be a good enough Pinsir counter regardless.
  15. Mood4food77

    Mood4food77

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    klefki isn't a better prankster user than thunderus-I (thunderus-I gets taunt, the best possible move to have with prankster, klefki does not, klefki just has more moves to use with prankster), but this is for another topic

    thunderus-I and thunderus-T probably aren't getting used as much because of all the new toys people want to use, we like shiny new objects so we want to use all the shiny new objects, that'll chance soon though

    still sad to see trevenant's most common partner not being tyranitar when they're typings are almost perfectly in-sync defensively
  16. WebBowser

    WebBowser

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    I am probably the only one who cares, but I have noticed that CB ninjask has risen eeeever so slightly. I think it's namely because scolopede (rightfully) outclasses its speedboost sets, so ninjask is trying to find itself a new niche.
  17. noknuckles

    noknuckles

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    I didn't realize Jolly Talonflame was so common. I run Adamant max speed hoping to atleast speed tie other Talonflame and now I realize why I'm losing to so many Talonflame/Talonflame matchups. I guess now that Adamant max speed loses to 30% of Talonflame, it's time to scale back a bit and just assume my Talonflame will be slower than opposing ones. I'm thinking of just outspeeding M Kanga just to hit over its Sucker Punches

    I can kinda see the reason for Jolly. Jolly allows it to outspeed Greninja, Starmie and Alakazam and sometimes, against these targets you'd want to just click U-turn instead of Brave Birding into a Rotom-W switch-in (or in the case of Sash Alakazam, just dying). It can also BB over the rare Water Shuriken Greninja. There's some reasoning to it, but personally there's no way I'm giving up 10% Attack just to make a few situations safer

    If UU were to be formed today, Latias, Zygarde, Kyu-B and Deo-S would be in it. Terrakion would be close to UU. Jirachi is right there as well. We're always told how crazy it is to talk about UU before OU is even close to stabilizing, but man it's fun talking crazy.
  18. Salt

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    Scizor is actually #7 now, unless you were talking about regular OU. But regular OU is less relevant because it's only going to exist for a few more weeks.
  19. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    Something I recently noticed (if my math is correct), is that Kangaskhan appears in the checks/counters section for 175 Pokemon in Pokebank. Granted, a lot of those were probably insignificant, but it's still a lot more than I would ever have expected. Combine that with the fact that its own checks/counters have relatively low scores (Mawile, Pinsir, and Gyarados are the only OU ones with less at the moment I think, and Kanga's should be higher because he's used more, so deviations will be lower) and the hype appears to be justified.
  20. Calm_Mind_Latias

    Calm_Mind_Latias

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    i still think zygarde has its potential unrealized. once it is set-up, it is hard to stop due to its bulk, a good 100% accurate coverage move, and extremespeed (which allows it to chain ES to EQ if the target pokemon is slower). my current team disappoints me due to general weakness to Rotom-W and zygarde cannot even wear it down because its stab Earthquake cannot hit and it is rendered useless by wil-o-wisp.
  21. Idiotesque

    Idiotesque

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    Wow well I personally find a lot of this stuff interesting. Looking at pokebank ubers first, I wanted to draw attention to #1. Chances are, if you play pokebank ubers, you run a Xerneas. Now, every single time I have seen a Xerneas in the tier, I sent out my Ho-oh to counter his ass. Even after a Geomancy boost, Ho-oh w/ Sacred Fire wins out one on one (I run recover too, in case I get critted). And while I know Antar's 'checks and counters' disagree, Ho-oh is always first to come out and counter MY Geomancy Xerneas as well. I'd really like to see HP [Rock] on Xerneas a little over Flash annon, dealing with Ho-oh easily and also smacking Shedinja, a common counter which can be troublesome for Hyper Offensive Ubers teams. (If there's something Flash Cannon hits that Xern's other moves don't, please let me know, I'm curious.)

    Something else I wanted to comment on is the fact that Antar said Gen 4 OU resembled Gen 5 UU quite closely. I look at all the pokemon which are on their way to getting kicked out of the top 50 and can't help but imagine that the same will happen to this generation. Some of the speedy but not-so-powerful mon's (Jolteon, Duggy) or slow and strong (Reun, Metagross) are outside the top fifty and don't really look to me like they'll be making a comeback when Gen 6 settles down I think this gen's lower tiers will look really interesting.

    Otherwise, Rotom-W has quietly climbed to number one on the pokebank usage lists, being a nice counter to lots of common threats like Talonflame, and being weak to only Grass and Mold Breaker Ground moves. Roselia brings some potential to take it on w/ Natural Cure (as was already discussed, I know) and set up Spikes. Scolipede is another much-discussed new potential 'mon, and I think the Swords Dance set works great, if you can get an opponent to switch out as you get a speed boost and doubled attack stat, you're good to wreak havoc. Unless the switch was to Talonflame, in which case you need to kiss your ass goodbye.

    New account, first post, please don't be too hard on me everyone :p
  22. TRC

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    The moveset stats say Serperior is being used with its Contrary ability in Pokebank. Is this legal yet? Also, the moveset stats also show Chesnaughts ability as Illuminate when it should be Bulletproof.
  23. Antar

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    TRCarnivine, until Pokebank is *actually* released, it's being treated like the ole Gen V "Dream World" tiers--everything is released.
  24. TRC

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    Thanks!
  25. GDK

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    Wow, can't wait till january stats so that we get the first month where pokebank is the actual metagame (with some slight changes of course).
    Because right now, terrakion being almost UU is kinda weird, but it's maybe due to pokebank not being the main thing right now.

    Also I can't wait for the meta to settle down a bit to see what is really good and what is just hyped.
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