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Metagame Offstat Metagame

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Level 51, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
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    As requested by numerous people on numerous occasions

    Introduction

    A bit of history (open)
    The Offstat Metagame stems from the Offstat Tournament, originally hosted by user: Level 51 in October-December 2012. During its run, a whole bunch of people pestered him into making a thread about the "metagame" he had unwittingly created... and so he did.
    To see the signups (and subsequent threads) from the Offstat Tournament, you can click the links below.

    | Signups | Round 1 | Round 2 | Round 3 | Round 4 | Semifinals | Finals |


    Offstat is essentially like standard OU - no hacks, nothing. Just nice, legal movesets. What sets it apart, though, is the limitations that have been placed on the allowed moves. The main "gimmick" of the metagame is:

    No Pokemon may use an attacking move corresponding to its higher base attack stat.

    Now this is all very good and well. You may be thinking, what's all the buzz about this for? Can't we just bring in physical Hydreigons and special Landoruses and all that jazz? Well, no. This is because of the second limitation:

    No Pokemon may be used if the difference between its two attacking stats is less than 50.

    Because of this clause, only the following Pokemon are allowed:
    Code:
    Abra
    Absol
    Aggron
    Alakazam
    Anorith
    Armaldo
    Axew
    Beheeyem
    Bisharp
    Blissey
    Bonsly
    Bouffalant
    Braviary
    Breloom
    Chandelure
    Conkeldurr
    Cranidos
    Darmanitan [B](Zen Mode Darmanitan is not allowed, because it always breaks Clause 2)[/B]
    Darumaka
    Dodrio
    Doduo
    Donphan
    Drilbur
    Druddigon
    Duosion
    Durant
    Escavalier
    Espeon
    Fraxure
    Gallade
    Garchomp
    Gardevoir
    Gastly
    Gengar
    Geodude
    Gigalith
    Glaceon
    Gliscor
    Golem
    Golurk
    Granbull
    Gurdurr
    Gyarados
    Hariyama
    Haunter
    Haxorus
    Heracross
    Hitmonchan
    Hitmonlee
    Hitmontop
    Jynx
    Kabutops
    Kadabra
    Kangaskhan
    Keldeo [B](Keldeo-R is not allowed, because it must by definition always utilise Secret Sword, hence Breaking Clause 2)[/B]
    Kingler
    Krabby
    KrookodileLampent
    Leafeon
    Lilligant
    Machamp
    Machoke
    Magnemite
    Magneton
    Magnezone
    Mamoswine
    Meloetta [B](Meloetta-P is not allowed, because it must first come from a Relic Song-using Meloetta, which breaks Clause 2)[/B]
    Mr. Mime
    Musharna
    Omanyte
    Omastar
    Pinsir
    Porygon-Z
    Rampardos
    Regice
    Regigigas
    Regirock
    Reuniclus
    Rhydon
    Rhyhorn
    Rhyperior
    Roggenrola
    Roserade
    Sandshrew
    Sandslash
    Sawk
    Scizor
    Scyther
    Shedinja
    Slaking
    Smoochum
    Sneasel
    Solosis
    Staraptor
    Stoutland
    Sudowoodo
    Tauros
    Terrakion
    Throh
    Timburr
    Togekiss
    Trapinch
    Ursaring
    Volcarona
    Weavile
    Zangoose
    There are also two other clauses that one may or may not use when playing matches. In order of importance:

    Entry hazards are not allowed; this is to counteract the use of stall. (This was employed in the Offstat Tournament.)

    Kyurem-B is not allowed; it is too overpowered. (This was employed in Round 2 of the Offstat Tournament.)

    What rules the metagame? Should Blissey be banned? Should Kyurem-B be allowed? Should entry hazards be allowed? Would the return of entry hazards make Kyurem-B significantly easier to handle? As you can see, this metagame, being relatively new, is full of questions that need answering. Give it a try; good luck, have fun! .‿.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  2. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
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    Reserved.
  3. Ghostbone

    Ghostbone

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    Somehow I see hustlekiss dominating this meta.....oh and special ramardos, who actually has legitimately powerful special attacks >.>

    Other than that Swords dance Keldeo would be pretty fun to use, as well as maybe curse regice.

    And SpecsChomp best set, just sayin.

    Anyway, seriously, since this metagame is clearly massively different from regular OU, perhaps it's worth unbanning uber pokes that actually meet the requirements. (Groudon, Kyogre, Excadrill and Kyurem-W) to see if they're actually broken. (I don't see excadrill or Groudon being anywhere near broken lol, though physical kyogre and kyurem-W would still be scary)

    And I'd keep hazards banned...since (correct me if I'm wrong) no rapid spinners actually exist (or are allowed to use it if they learn it).
  4. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Special Groudon would still be pretty insane. Base 100 Special Attack is really high for this metagame and thanks to Drought, it essentially has two amazing STAB's. Groudon would also be incredibly difficult to take down thanks to its amazing bulk.

    Excadrill is the only one of the four that you mentioned that should be allowed. In fact, I kind of doubt that Excadrill would be that stellar. 50 base Special Attack is not that good even in offstat and its special movepool is limited.
  5. Relados

    Relados That's right!
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    Are Ubers formally banned or can we use Special Groudon, Physical Kyogre and the likes? If they're allowed, I could imagine them dominating this metagame almost as much as Kyurem-B would.
  6. Ghostbone

    Ghostbone

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    Even if we think it's likely that they'll dominate the metagame it's still worth testing them out (groudon would find it impossible to get past blissey or togekiss for example, kyogre is checked by basically any water resist, kyurem-W....would admittedly probably still be broken, but if kyurem-B started out legal it at least deserves a shot...)
  7. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
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    Of all the Ubers, the only allowed ones are Kyogre, Groudon, Kyurem-W and Excadrill.

    For obvious reasons, I don't think Excadrill would be very good, even with Sand Rush. Sand Force might be interesting, giving Excadrill around the equivalent of 80 SpA (the same as Garchomp) for Earth Power, at the cost of an ability slot. However, in terms of special attacks, it basically has Earth Power, Focus Blast, Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power as its only reasonable forms of offense, being unable to utilise even Flash Cannon :/

    Groudon is interesting. With 100 SpA, Drought and access to Earth Power, Dragon Pulse and Eruption (further strengthened by Drought), I think it's safe to say that it should remain banned,

    Kyogre doesn't have much in the way of physical offense, but the combination of Aqua Tail/Waterfall, Avalanche and Earthquake provides good coverage; furthermore, its superb special bulk lets it check threats such as Garchomp and Rampardos.

    Kyurem-W also gets excellent coverage from Outrage/Zen Headbutt/Stone Edge, but is unfortunately completely walled by Magnezone due to it lacking Earthquake. Its bulk, though, like Kyurem-B's, means that it can run a stall set (like almost every other legendary :|).

    In fact, stall is one of the most dominating playstyles of this metagame, which is why I banned entry hazards in the first place. >_>
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon AHHHH REAL GOOMBAS!
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    Oh man I wish this thread was more active, this metagame is almost as crazy as glitchmons sometimes! (granted, a very different kind of crazy). ANYWAYS, Im shocked at how little people seem to prepare for Blissey. Considering how this metagame works, getting stalled out by Blissey is a VERY real threat that needs to be taken into consideration!

    As far as Curse users go, I haven't tried Regice, but one mon I have had success with is Musharna. It has both Heal Bell AND an immediate recovery move in moonlight, so after a few curses, it can actually wreck stuff with Zen Headbutt of all things! It also gets Baton Pass which is pretty nice.

    I can also confirm that Hustle Togekiss IS indeed strong. I use a sorta bulky attacking set with Work Up / ExtremeSpeed / Roost / Steel Wing or Drain Punch. Drain Punch is cool, but I usually used Steel Wing because I was pretty scared about Gengar. Togekiss's only real problem is that of course, Hustle can screw you over at the WORST times x_x

    I'll post some more intresting mons when I have more time!
  9. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast MUH FREEDOMZ
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    I got out R1 but I guess I'll post here anyway.

    In my eyes, there are only four really viable physical attackers: Omastar, Musharna (Theorymon o_o), Togekiss and Keldeo. Omastar gets Shell Smash, which is just an amazing move on any Pokemon. Musharna can just use Curse or it can go THEORYMON SMASH and Baton Pass to something like Togekiss who can clean up with Extremespeed. Togekiss gets Hustle, which is amazing with the low stats of Offstat attackers, and it gets Work Up Extremespeed and Drain Punch to boot. Keldeo is blessed with Swords Dance and the strongest Fighting-type move in the entire tier, making it an excellent Blissey killer. It also gets priority in Aqua Jet. From my experience, Porygon-Z isn't actually that great despite its awesome potential, as it has an awful physical movepool (STAB moves, Iron Tail, Aerial Ace, Zen Headbutt, ...Thief?).

    Sets for the above Pokemon that I've used (note: I haven't used Musharna at all, I don't know Theorymon's EV spread though...):
    Click me (open)
    Omastar @ White Herb
    Trait: Weak Armor
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Return / Double-Edge

    Musharna @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 Atk / 172 HP / 84 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Gyro Ball
    - Rock Slide
    - Curse
    EVs give Porygon-Z a Special Attack boost, just made those up, don't kill me)

    Togekiss @ Choice Band
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Aerial Ace
    - Drain Punch
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Trick

    Keldeo @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Aqua Jet
    - Substitute / Aqua Tail
    Damn, just remembered Curse Regice... Hooray for Close Combat Keldeo! It's interesting to note that it might be the only physical attacker that can reliably beat Garchomp though, since Rough Skin + Draco Meteor will bone most physical attackers.

    Stalling is absolutely everywhere. Blissey is pretty much the best Pokemon in the tier since so little can stop it, and Pokemon are forced to use their lower attacking stat which makes everything seem bulkier.
  10. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
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    Interestingly enough, Natural Gift works kind of like a Physical Hidden Power if you don't mind wasting an item slot. :P

    I also thought Fling might be an interesting option, with Burn, Toxic and Thunder Wave added in by Flame Orb, Toxic Orb and Light Ball.
  11. rlyn99

    rlyn99

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    As far as I can see, there is a lack of good grass types in this tier, as most grass types have pretty balanced offenses

    The only ones that would be worth looking at are Breloom and *maybe* leafeon.

    Sheer force Braviary is actually a pretty cool set, with Air slash, HpFighting and Heat wave rounded off with roost.

    I know everyone thinks Blissey is overpowered, but honestly, it's not too prominent considering Keldeo is one of the top pokemon in this tier, and Blissey just gets ass-raped by CC.
  12. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Breloom is great. Just don't waste your time using Technician; Poison Heal is where Breloom shines. I remember struggling to get past zfs's Substitute / Spore / Leech Seed / Giga Drain Breloom.

    Braviary I would forgo using Hidden Power Fighting. Yeah you miss out on Rock-types, but they are generally pretty frail and not so great. Substitute would have more utility than Hidden Power Fighting.
  13. Joim

    Joim All promises become a lie, all that's bening corrups in time
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    Even though I got owned in round 1 by a baton pass team, I find this metagame very enjoyable and interesting. I consider Groudon could be broken even if it's walled by Blissey, 100 base stat is too much for an offstat.
  14. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
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    This is kind of a necrobump, but OffStat can now be played on Joim's server — http://joimslab.psim.us/. If OffStat becomes the OMotM an OffStat ladder may also appear in the main server. Have fun!
    ---
    In other news, should Groudon, Kyogre, Excadrill and Kyurem-W remain banned on the new ladder? Discuss n_n (reference for pros of each of the 4 ubers)
  15. Heroes and Cons

    Heroes and Cons

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    Volcarona has a decent physical and support movepool (including stuff like Flare Blitz, morning sun, will-o-wisp and toxic), so with its nice speed it could be interesting.

    On another note, it's a damn shame there wasn't 6 more points between Mewtwo's offensive stats. Physical Mewtwo would be devastating if ubers were allowed to be tried out, with access to Bulk Up, Recover, the elemental punches, focus punch, etc coming off base 110 attack (which is insane for this meta).

    Thirdly, Regigigas is actually viable here. Base 80 special attack isn't bas at all in this meta, the special attack stat isn't affected by Slow Start, and instead of investing in speed you can invest in its bulk to turn it into a great special-attacking tank. It only really gets Thunderbolt, Hidden Power and Focus Blast for viable special attacks so it would be quite predictable, but no less difficult to face (it could use chesto-rest or lefties with sub to make it even harder to take down).
  16. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast MUH FREEDOMZ
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    Since stalling is much more prevalent here, Regigigas would probably have difficulty in OffStat. Without Rest, Protect, or any form of recovery, there's nothing it can do to similarly stall out the opponent, and if said opponent has Substitute you're out of luck.

    Also, I think Excadrill should definitely be unbanned. Low Special Attack with no way to boost really spells Excadrill's doom, and even if it tried to pull off a stalling set it would probably get destroyed by the multitude of Gengar and Keldeo in the tier.
  17. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    I think it would be a good idea to make a certain point that you can use attacks off of that pokemon's weaker offensive stat (i.e. physical Magikarp, special Feebas, and Shuckle should be allowed). In the event that both of a pokemon's stats are below the point (pokemon like Shuckle and Happiny), then that pokemon may use physical and special moves.

    I also suggest being able to use a pokemon whose off stat is within 50 of its better stat (and both above the point in my prior suggestion) if no attacking moves are used on it (so Rock Polish/Iron Defense/Sandstorm/Toxic Tyranitar or Roar/Copycat/Agility/Toxic Riolu would be legal).
  18. TalkTakesTime

    TalkTakesTime crazier than a fish with titties
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    I don't really see how that would improve the metagame to be entirely honest. If you could provide some actual reasoning behind your suggestions, that might help, but as is I see no reason to further complicate the ban conditions for a questionable improvement. They also somewhat defeat the purpose of it being "Offstat", since your second suggestion just ignores offstats entirely, and between the two of them they unban every pokemon that currently isn't allowed.
    MikeDawg likes this.
  19. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
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    Stall is already pretty good as the metagame currently stands; following the non-attacking move suggestion would just make the meta even more stall-oriented.
  20. Heroes and Cons

    Heroes and Cons

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    I reckon Blissey will be broken in this metagame (and Chansey too). Not only is it an immense supporter, but with all the powerful physical attacker down, the only thing that could realistically threaten it would be Swords Dance Keldeo; having one pokemon that immediately threatens it is NOT enough.

    Hmmm, well if ANY pokemon with this difference is allowed (aside from Kyurem-B), then maybe we should sere which Ubers are too good? Only 4 Ubers would actually be allowed anyway - Excadrill is a pathetic special attacker, Kyogre had a poor physical movepool but Drizzle boosted waterfall would still be good, Groudon could be dangerous with its better special movepool and drought, and Kyurem-W is probably more broken than Kyurem-B and would be banned pretty quickly.

    Also, I expect that a bulky Regigigas could be an effective supporter. It no longer cares about the Attack drop, and is almost as bulky as Cresselia so the speed drop isn't too hindering. It gets plenty of moves including Toxic, T-wave, Safeguard (potentially an important move in a metagame where toxic and potentially will-o-wisp will be rampant), Psych Up (which would be good with decent special attacks to defeat special boosters), Sub, Swagger, Block, Rest of course, and plenty of special attacks running off a decent base 80 special attack. Certainly, it is much more viable in this metagame than in the standard metagame. Block + Toxic would be VERY dangerous, and coupled with Regigigas' great mixed bulk, Rest and either a special attack (like Thunderbolt) or Swagger (which would really threaten to backfire on Regigigas considering the lack of powerful physical attackers), it could really do a number on the weak Pokemon.
  21. Laga

    Laga Thank u based danish pastry
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    There is no way Kyurem-W would be more broken than Kyurem-B. Basically, think of purely physical Kyurem-B in OU.

    With 50 less base attack stat and the same pathetic physical movepool.
  22. Heroes and Cons

    Heroes and Cons

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    Well, given its movepool, maybe not QUITE as broken, but certainly still broken given its outrageously powerful outrages. It will be by FAR the most powerful physical attacker in this metagame, and it gets access to Hone Claws to make it even stronger. And with so few steel types or decent revenge killers / physical walls even legal in this metagame, it wouldn't be a stretch to say KW would be easily too broken for this meta.
  23. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
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    I think, conversely, that Kyurem-W could potentially be a good fix to Chansey/Blissey as the strongest physical attacker in the tier. It would be necessary to find stuff that could counter/check Kyurem-W though... I suppose Regirock might work, as could a few Steel-types (maybe Ferro?)
  24. Laga

    Laga Thank u based danish pastry
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    252+ SpA Choice Specs Ferrothorn Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-W: 248-294 (63.42 - 75.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

    Specs Ferrothorn gogogogo
  25. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Special No Guard Machamp with Focus Blast + Fire Blast gogogo

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