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Old Gens Other Metas Mega Thread

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Funbot28, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,498
    Approved by The Immortal
    Most of OP written by MAMP


    [​IMG]
    Banner by Centinela
    Introduction: Welcome to the Old Gens Other Metas Megathread! This thread will host the discussion of popular past Other Metas that were enjoyed generations 1-6. Listed below are indexes for each metagame which links useful information such as banlists and links to other resources to help understand the specific metagame. This thread will also act as a place to discuss potential reforms of these specific metagames, meaning that potential bans and unbans may likely take place after useful discussion through the discretion the of the metagame's specific leader. You may also post teams, replays, and general thoughts on these metagames in this thread to help garner some discussion. All these metagames are available to be played on ROM.

    General Old Gen OM Resources
    Gen 6 Other Metagames Subforum
    Gen 6 OM Archive (this is where the Gen V threads are)
    Gen 6 OM Index
    Older OM Index (has Gen V metas/resources)
    Gen 6 Old Gens Megathread
    Pokemon Throwback

    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Team Dump
    Ransei's OM Sample Weebly

    Ruins of Alph subforum
    Past Gens Resource Archive
    Mechanical Differences Between the Gens


    1v1

    As the name would suggest, 1v1 is a metagame where you bring just 1 Pokemon into battle. Beginning in Gen VI, you bring 3 Pokemon to team preview and then choose 1 to battle with.
    Gen VI (open)

    Banlist and Clauses
    ORAS 1v1 uses the following clauses:
    OHKO Clause
    Evasion Clause
    Moody Clause
    ORAS 1v1 uses the ORAS OU banlist with some exceptions:

    Bans
    Items: Focus Sash

    Unbans
    Pokemon: Aegislash, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Landorus
    Items: Gengarite, Lucarionite, Mawilite, Sablenite

    Resources and Discussion
    Metagame Discussion Thread
    Resources Thread (includes Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, Sets Compendium, and Speed Tiers)

    Beginner’s Guide to 1v1 by Dream Eater Gengar, Articuno I, and Fake Melo
    Face-to-face: Archetypes of 1v1 by Dream Eater Gengar and Rosalyn

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen V (open)

    Gen V 1v1 is played without Team Preview — just bring one Pokemon!

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen V 1v1 uses the following clauses:
    OHKO Clause
    Evasion Clause
    Moody Clause

    Gen V 1v1 uses the Gen V OU banlist with the exception(s) of:

    Bans
    Items: Focus Sash

    Unbans
    Pokemon: Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Excadrill, Genesect, Manaphy, Thundurus-Incarnate, Tornadus-Therian

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread

    Sample Teams

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen III (open)


    Gen III 1v1 was chosen as the Pokemon Throwback ladder for September 2014.

    Banlist and Clauses
    ADV 1v1 uses the following clauses:
    OHKO Clause
    Evasion Clause
    ADV 1v1 uses the ADV OU banlist.

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion in Throwback Thread


    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!



    Almost Any Ability

    Almost Any Ability is a metagame that gives every Pokemon access to any ability, except the few that are banned for balance. For obvious reasons, this metagame cannot exist in the first two generations.

    Gen VI (open)

    Banlist and Clauses
    ORAS AAA uses ORAS OU clauses with the addition of:

    Ability Clause: Limit two of each ability per team
    ORAS AAA uses the GEN OU banlist with some exceptions:

    Bans
    Pokemon: Archeops, Bisharp, Chatot, Dragonite, Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Mamoswine, Regigigas, Shedinja, Slaking, Smeargle, Snorlax, Suicune, Terrakion, Weavile
    Moves: Dynamic Punch, Zap Cannon
    Abilities: (these can still be used on their original users): Arena Trap, Contrary, Fur Coat, Huge Power, Illusion, Imposter, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Simple, Speed Boost, Wonder Guard


    Unbans
    Pokemon: Aegislash, Blaziken, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Greninja, Landorus


    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread
    Resources Thread (includes Viability Rankings, Speed Tiers, and Role Compendium)
    Creative/Underrated Sets Thread
    Role Compendium
    Good Cores

    Introduction to AAA by Snaquaza and Kl4ng

    Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


    Anything Goes

    Created as a tier to house Mega Rayquaza, Anything Goes allows the use of anything that can be obtained in-game without hacking or glitches. This means there are no bans and no clauses!

    Gen VI (open)


    Banlist and Clauses
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread
    Resources Thread (includes Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, Threatlist, Speed Tiers, Role Compendium)
    Good Cores

    The Creation of Anything Goes by Vertex
    Baton Pass in Anything Goes by Josh and Chloe
    Copy Paste: Breaking the Species Clause in Anything Goes by Megazard
    Don’t Use That, Use This: AG by TheTiksiBranch
    AG Spotlight: Mega Rayquaza by TheTiksiBranch
    AG Spotlight: Xerneas by Megazard and Dream Eater Gengar

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen V (open)


    Gen V AG was selected as the Ruins of Alph showcase ladder for December 2016.

    Banlist and Clauses
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread

    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!



    Balanced Hackmons

    In Balanced Hackmons, any Pokemon may use any move and any ability, excepting the few that are banned. Additionally, Pokemon can start the game in alternate forms without having to transform into them, and in generations prior to Gen VI may have 252 EVs in every stat.

    Gen VI (open)


    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen VI Balanced Hackmons uses the following clauses:
    OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
    Evasion Clause: Evasion boosting moves (ie: Minimize and Double Team) are banned
    Moody Clause: Moody is banned
    Ability Clause: Limited 2 of the same ability per team
    -Ate Clause: No more than one -ate ability per team

    Bans
    Pokemon: Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre
    Moves: Chatter, Assist
    Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Shadow Tag*, Arena Trap, Wonder Guard, Parental Bond*, Protean

    *Available through Mega Evolution (ie: Gengarite and Kangaskhanite)

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread
    Suspects and Bans Thread
    BH Central (includes Viability Rankings and Speed Tiers)
    Creative and Underrated Sets Thread
    Good Cores

    Balanced Hackmons 101: Imposters and Imposter-Proofing by HeadsILoseTailsYouWin
    Balanced Hackmons 101: Priority and -ates by HeadsILoseTailsYouWin and morogrim
    Underrated Abilities in the Balanced Hackmons Metagame by wishes

    Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen V (open)


    Gen V BH allows 252 EVs in each stat.

    Banlist and Clauses

    Gen V Balanced Hackmons uses the following clause:
    OHKO Clause
    Sleep Clause

    Gen V Balanced Hackmons uses the following banlist:

    Bans
    Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Wonder Guard, Shadow Tag, Arena Trap

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread
    Viability Rankings (note: not a traditional VR!)
    The Complete and Comprehensive Guide to Balanced Hackmons
    Underused Pokemon in the Balanced Hackmons Metagame
    OM Team Study - Balanced Hackmons

    Balanced Hackmons Smogcast with chaos, Zarel, MJB, imanalt, MikeDecIsHere, verbatim

    Introduction to "Balanced" Hackmons by verbatim and DTC
    Anything Goes! Balanced Hackmons Threats Revealed by Ezio and imanalt

    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen IV (open)


    Gen IV BH does not have Team Preview and allows 252 EVs in each stat. It was chosen as the Pokemon Throwback ladder for July 2014.

    Banlist and Clauses

    Gen IV BH uses the following clauses.
    OHKO Clause
    Ability Clause

    Gen IV Balanced Hackmons uses the following banlist:

    Bans
    Abilities: Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, Wonder Guard, Huge Power, Pure Power, Weather + Speed Boosting Weather Ability


    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread

    Sample Teams

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen III (open)


    Gen III BH allows 252 EVs in each stat.

    Banlist and Clauses
    banlist created by MAMP and DG9
    Gen III Balanced Hackmons uses the following clauses:
    OHKO Clause
    Sleep Clause

    Gen III Balanced Hackmons uses the following banlist:

    Bans
    Pokemon: Slaking
    Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, Wonder Guard
    Items: Soul Dew
    Moves: Belly Drum

    Resources and Discussion
    Brief metagame analysis post by MAMP (note that slaking was banned since this post)

    Sample Teams

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen II (open)

    Gen II BH allows 252 EVs in each stat.

    Banlist and Clauses
    banlist created by anna says hi
    Gen II Balanced Hackmons uses the following clauses:
    OHKO Clause
    Evasion Clause
    Sleep Clause
    Mewtwo Clause: Limit one Mewtwo per team
    Sleep Trap Clause - Players may not have a trapping move (Spider Web, Mean Look) and a sleep-inducing move (Spore, Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Hypnosis) on the same Pokemon.
    Resources and Discussion

    Brief metagame analysis post by anna says hi

    Sample Teams

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!

    Gen 1 (open)

    Gen I BH allows 252 EVs in each stat

    Banlist and Clauses
    banlist created by MAMP and Quantum Tesseract
    Gen I Balanced Hackmons uses the following clauses:
    Sleep Clause
    Evasion Clause
    OHKO Clause
    Freeze Clause
    Gen I Balanced Hackmons uses the following banlist:

    Bans
    Pokemon: Mewtwo
    Moves: Fire Spin, Wrap, Bind, Clamp


    Resources and Discussion


    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


    Inverse Battle

    Inverse Battle inverts the type chart, making super-effective moves not very effective and vice-versa.

    Gen VI (open)

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen VI Inverse Battle uses Gen VI OU clauses.

    Gen VI Inverse Battle uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exceptions of:

    Bans
    Pokemon: Kyurem-Black, Snorlax, Diggersby, Serperior

    Unbans
    Pokemon: Genesect, Aegislash, Dialga, Giratina, Greninja, Landorus-I
    Items: Mawilite, Lucarionite

    Resources and Discussion

    Discussion Thread
    Viability Rankings
    Role Compendium
    Good Cores

    Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!



    Mix and Mega

    In Mix and Mega, the limit of 1 mega evolution per game is removed and any Pokemon can use any mega stone, gaining the stat boosts, ability, and typing change that the normal user of the mega stone wold usually receive. As Mega Stones were introduced in the sixth generation, Mix and Mega does not exist prior to that.

    Gen VI (open)

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen VI Mix and Mega uses the following clauses:
    OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
    Evasion Clause: Evasion boosting moves (ie: Minimize and Double Team) are banned
    Moody Clause: Moody is banned
    Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
    Endless Battle Clause: Battlers cannot force an endless battle
    Gen VI Mix and Mega uses the Gen VI Ubers banlist with the exception(s) of:

    Bans
    Pokemon*: Kyurem-B, Regigiggas, Slaking, Dragonite, Cresselia, Manaphy
    Moves: Baton Pass
    Items**: Beedrilite, Mawilite, Medichamite, Kangaskhanite, Gengarite

    * Banned from mega evolving
    ** Stones are available to be used on their natural user

    Resources and Discussion

    Discussion Thread
    Mega Stone Boosts spreadsheet by Tyrell D. Barnes

    Mixing Things Up: A Beginner’s Guide to Mix and Mega by CrystalFalchion
    OMotM Spotlight: Mix and Mega by nv


    Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread
    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!



    Monotype

    Every member of your team must share a type.

    Gen VI (open)

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen VI Monotype uses Gen VI OU clauses.

    Gen VI Monotype uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exception(s) of:

    Bans
    Pokemon: Talonflame
    Items: Altarianite, Charizardite X, Damp Rock, Metagrossite, Slowbronite, Sablenite, Smooth Rock

    Unbans
    Pokemon: Landorus-I, Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D
    Abilities: Shadow Tag

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread
    Viability Rankings
    Good Cores
    Monotype Hub

    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen V (open)


    Banlist and Clauses

    Gen V Monotype uses Gen V OU clauses.

    Gen V Monotype uses the Gen V OU banlist.

    Resources and Discussion

    Discussion Thread (includes Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, Role Compendium, Type VR, Playstyle VR)
    Another Discussion Thread

    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen IV (open)


    Banlist and Clauses

    Gen IV Monotype uses Gen IV OU clauses.

    Gen IV Monotype uses the Gen IV OU banlist.

    Resources and Discussion

    Overview post by Vid (includes Type VR and Good Leads)
    Viability Rankings

    Sample Teams
    Sample Teams

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


    Sketchmons

    Sketchmons lets every Pokemon learn the move Sketch once, thus giving every Pokemon access to 1 new move that they couldn't otherwise learn.

    Gen VI (open)


    Banlist and Clauses

    Gen VI Sketchmons uses Gen VI OU clauses with the addition of:
    Sketch Clause: A team can have no more than one of the same sketch move per team. (for example you cannot have two Pokemon with Extreme Speed that do not get it normally)
    Gen VI Sketchmons uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exception(s) of:

    Bans
    Pokemon: Diggersby
    Moves: Unreleased Moves, Chatter, Shell Smash
    Items: King's Rock, Razor Fang, Pinsirite

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread (includes Viability Rankings and Sample Team)

    Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!



    Stabmons

    In STABmons, Pokemon can learn any move that shares a type with them.

    Gen VI (open)

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen VI STABmons uses Gen VI OU clauses.

    Gen VI STABmons uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exceptions of:

    Bans
    Pokemon: Diggersby, Porygon-Z, Kyurem-B, Thundurus
    Moves: Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Lovely Kiss, Dark Void, Geomancy, Shift Gear
    Items: Altarianite, Metagrossite, Aerodactylite

    Resources and Discussion

    Discussion Thread
    Viability Rankings
    Role Compendium (unfinished)
    Good Cores
    Creative and Underrated Sets

    Normal-types in the STABmons Metagame by unfixable
    What not to run in the STABmons metagame by wishes
    STABmons Changes in ORAS by wishes and asterat
    Move Donors: Giving the Gift of Life in STABmons by Eevee General
    Relevant Moves in STABmons by baconbagon
    (BAN ME PLEASE): A Look Back at the Bans in STABmons by Kris and baconbagon
    Exit: STABmons by Eevee General and wishes

    Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread
    Neon Town (Eevee General’s team shop)


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen V (open)


    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen V STABmons uses Gen V OU clauses with the addition of:

    Limited Normals Clause: Only 1 instance of extra STAB is allowed for Normal-types, including access through the Pre-evo and Forme Clauses

    Gen V STABmons uses the Gen V OU banlist with the exception(s) of:

    Unbans
    Pokemon: Darkrai, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Excadrill, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Landorus

    Resources and Discussion

    Discussion Thread
    OM Team Study - STABmons

    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen IV (open)


    Gen IV STABmons was chosen as the Pokemon Throwback ladder for August 2014.

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen IV STABmons uses Gen IV OU clauses:

    Gen IV STABmons uses the Gen IV OU banlist with the exceptions of:

    Bans
    Moves: Belly Drum
    Items: BrightPowder

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion in Throwback Thread

    Sample Teams

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


    Smogon Triples

    The Triples metagame allows players to play with 3 Pokemon at once! The 6 Pokemon battlefield offers much diversity and unique strategies.

    Gen VI (open)

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen VI Triples uses the following clauses:
    OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are bannedEvasion Clause: Evasion boosting moves (ie: Minimize and Double Team) are banned
    Moody Clause: Moody is bannedEndless Battle Clause: Battlers cannot force an endless battle

    Gen VI Triples uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exceptions of:

    Bans
    Moves: Dark Void, Perish Song

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread
    Viability Rankings

    Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


    Tier Shift

    Tier Shift buffs lower tier Pokemon by giving them +5 to each of their base stats for each tier they are below OU.
    Gen VI (open)


    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen VI Tier Shift uses Gen VI OU clauses.

    Gen VI Tier Shift uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exceptions of:

    Bans
    Moves: Chatter
    Abilities: Swift Swim

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread
    Viability Rankings
    Role Compendium
    Good Cores

    Sample Teams
    Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen V (open)


    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen V Tier Shift uses Gen V OU clauses.

    Gen V Tier Shift uses the Gen V OU banlist.

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion Thread
    Viability Rankings

    War of the Weathers: A Look at Weather in Tier Shift by ryan
    Equality for All? Common Tier Shift Threats Explained by Yarnus of Bethany

    Sample Teams


    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
    Gen IV (open)

    Gen IV Tier Shift was chosen as the Pokemon Throwback ladder for October 2014.

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen IV Tier Shift uses Gen IV OU clauses.

    Gen IV Tier Shift uses the Gen IV OU banlist.

    Resources and Discussion
    Discussion in Throwback Thread

    Sample Teams

    Replays
    None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  2. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,498
    Reserved
    tegrof19, nv and GL Volkner like this.
  3. Kris

    Kris
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,914
    im a cool dude
  4. motherlove

    motherlove

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Messages:
    834
    Idk about sleep clause but I've been having trouble falling asleep lately and counting mareeps ain't helping. My teacher kept yelling like "hey mother y u snoosing in class like dude stop snoosing it's class dude stop like just stop stop dude like it's class stop" and I was so tired I was just like dude chill there's no sleep clause yet amarite and he didn't get it he wwas like stop snoosing dude but there's no sleep clause so w/e I told him to piss off and he called my dad but he didn't know my dad was a psychokille and he hit him with the stakeout v-create on the grough scizzor my teacher was chambled dude he was in chables like chambled dude like he didn't know he was like " i don't know" chambled dude i'm telling you and he got str8 ohkod like piff paff like just the hp dropped and i have dreams about hp dropping at night becuse of innards out traumatising me and thats why i can't sleep but there's no sleep clause so w/e.
  5. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,498
    Ok so after discussing with E4 Flint, we decided to form a council consisting of me, motherlove and MAMP. With this, we decided to stop the current Sleep Clause discussion (for now) and are moving onto discussing banning -ates entirely from Gen 6 Balanced Hackmons.

    This has been a polarizing topic in last gen's iteration of BH, and we feel the issue should finally be resolved within this thread in order to ensure the most balance metagame, however keep in mind that our ideal is to preserve the most minimalist banlist as possible, where bans are only preserved for extreme cases. The council will follow philosophy derived from the Bans and Suspects thread linked. Previous discussion upon this can be found here.

    Please share your thoughts on the matter, and we will likely take it into consideration.

    Also no more shitposting from here on out :)
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
    fsk likes this.
  6. E4 Flint

    E4 Flint -inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
    is a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    485
    I have decided to give most of the decision making power for gen 6 bh to a BH6 Council which will consist initially of Funbot28 motherlove and MAMP. I feel that, after myself, they are the next best choices to keep things going and I am primarily interested in the current iteration of BH. They are free to follow my philosophy and decisions or deviate from it if they wish (e.g. my decisions on sleep clause, ates w/e) and I will mostly stay on in an advisory role.
    Funbot28 and motherlove like this.
  7. urkerab

    urkerab
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    579
    Obviously I've still got some of the Gen VI metagames running on ROM, but I was curious as I didn't seem to have the same banlists. Here is a list of where ROM has differences, so you can check whether ROM's code is wrong:

    1v1
    Banlist and Clauses

    Historically, unbans were implemented by listing all the clauses manually. This means that 1v1 may not have accurately followed the OU clauses. However I don't think the missing clauses were interesting (Baton Pass Clause, anyone?)

    Bans
    Items: Focus Sash
    ROM's code also bans Perish Song and Chansey + Charm + Seismic Toss.

    Almost Any Ability

    Bans
    Pokemon: Archeops, Bisharp, Chatot, Dragonite, Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Mamoswine, Regigigas, Shedinja, Slaking, Smeargle, Snorlax, Suicune, Terrakion, Weavile
    ROM's code bans Chatter rather than Chatot, not that it makes any difference.

    Balanced Hackmons

    Banlist and Clauses
    Moody Clause: Moody is banned
    ROM's code bans Moody instead of using the clause for some reason.

    Mix and Mega

    Banlist and Clauses
    Gen VI Mix and Mega uses the following clauses:
    ROM's code uses the Ubers clauses, such as the Mega Rayquaza clause.

    Bans
    Pokemon: Kyurem-B, Regigiggas, Slaking, Dragonite, Cresselia, Manaphy
    ROM's code also bans Lucario from mega evolving (except with Lucarionite).

    Moves: Baton Pass
    ROM's code also bans Dynamic Punch, Electrify and Zap Cannon.

    ROM's code allows the following Uber Pokémon to hold mega stones: Aegislash, Blaziken, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Landorus.

    Monotype

    Bans
    Pokemon: Talonflame
    Items: Altarianite, Charizardite X, Damp Rock, Metagrossite, Slowbronite, Sablenite, Smooth Rock
    ROM's code doesn't ban Sableye-Mega or Smooth Rock.

    Unbans
    Pokemon: Landorus-I, Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D
    ROM's code also unbans Aegislash and Hoopa-Unbound.
    Abilities: Shadow Tag
    ROM's code doesn't unban Shadow Tag.

    Stabmons

    Bans
    Moves: Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Lovely Kiss, Dark Void, Geomancy, Shift Gear
    ROM's code excludes (rather than bans) Acupressure and Chatter from those Pokémon that don't naturally learn them. (Interestingly I checked the history and found that those moves got reincluded and then reexcluded 4 days later, so ROM's code must have come from that window of opportunity.)

    Smogon Triples

    Gen VI Triples uses the Gen VI OU banlist
    ROM's code has a custom banlist consisting of Arceus, Dialga, Giratina (both), Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom.

    Tier Shift

    Bans
    Moves: Chatter
    Abilities: Swift Swim
    ROM's code doesn't ban these, instead it bans Damp Rock.
  8. DEG

    DEG :)
    is a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    963
    ROM's 1v1 bans are correct. Perish Song is banned and Chansey + Charm + Seismic Toss is banned due to illegalities. However Monotype banlist is incorrect, Mega Sableye and Smooth Rock are both banned. While Shadow Tag and Hoopa-U are also unbanned. Aegislash is banned.
  9. urkerab

    urkerab
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    579
    Thanks, I've updated ROM's code with those changes, and also the STABmons changes. I've also finished adding the other formats to ROM, which takes it up to a nice round 300 formats!
    Funbot28 likes this.
  10. Quantum Tesseract

    Quantum Tesseract Imasugu
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,879
    Obviously, I'm a little late on weighing in, but personally I would say no. Ate users are some of the best in the metagame, yes, but I never really found any of them bar choice Specs ray unbearable. Even for offense, preparing information opposing ray isn't that much of a burden: you need to imposterproof your own, after all. Maybe new playstyles would shine without it, but if we're being honest steel isn't just used to answer -ate+coverage.
  11. sugarhigh

    sugarhigh

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    359
    Some BW Balanced Hackmons teams I have
    My rain
    Show Hide

    Palkia @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Water Spout
    - Magma Storm
    - Sleep Talk

    Palkia @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Water Spout
    - Trick
    - Secret Sword / Magma storm

    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Ability: Imposter
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Skill Swap
    - Recover
    - Spider Web

    Jirachi @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - U-turn
    - Spider Web
    - Perish Song
    - Milk Drink

    Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Whirlwind
    - Heal Order

    Giratina @ Mail
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Rest
    - Curse
    - Heal Bell
    - Rapid Spin

    My take on rain. It's palkia's check is the chansey walls it pretty handily since chansey doesnt have the specs boost. Rain was ridiculous back in the day because waterspout specs or tailglow palkia were really hard to wall.

    Klang's Rain
    Show Hide

    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Magic Coat
    - Recover
    - Water Spout
    - Draco Meteor

    Giratina @ Mail
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Destiny Bond
    - Gastro Acid
    - Recover
    - Encore

    Shedinja @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Volt Switch
    - Endeavor
    - Recycle
    - Ice Shard

    Arceus-Ghost @ Leftovers
    Ability: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Extreme Speed
    - Belly Drum
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin

    Palkia @ Draco Plate
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Judgment
    - Water Spout
    - Tail Glow
    - Recover

    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Heal Bell

    Idt Klang cares if I post his rain since its been like 4 years lol. But Klang's rain defined the rain playstyle. Rain to prevent sand to basically keep shedinja generally invulnerable. It was really hard to get rid of shedinja if the individual did not use a moldbreaker, sand,or catching them with a rouge rocky helmet. Klang rain utilized shedinja to wall palkias since most normal stall walls cannot withstand rain spam.

    Sand Stall (sleep abuse)
    Show Hide

    Ferrothorn @ Mail
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Recover
    - Magic Coat

    Registeel @ Leftovers
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Recover
    - Simple Beam
    - U-turn
    - Rapid Spin

    Lugia @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Trick
    - Spore
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost

    Giratina @ Leftovers
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spikes
    - Spore
    - Whirlwind
    - Milk Drink

    Meloetta-Pirouette @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - High Jump Kick
    - Extreme Speed
    - Dragon Rush

    Shuckle @ Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Impish Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Milk Drink
    - Foul Play
    - Leech Seed
    - Perish Song


    My take on sleep abusement. Sleep resets when a pokemon switches out in gen 5 so in gen 5 bh it is possible to sleep cycle an opponent's whole team. Team abuses this to pretty great effect. Meloetta is life orb instead of toxic orb because +2 dragon rush ohkos spdef giratina after rocks, so I felt it was worth to run life orb over toxic orb but it can be interchangeable.

    Sand Offense
    Show Hide

    Ferrothorn @ Mail
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Gyro Ball
    - Heal Order
    - Magic Coat

    Archeops @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Head Smash
    - High Jump Kick
    - U-turn
    - Shell Smash

    Landorus-Therian @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Nature Power
    - Swords Dance
    - Bolt Strike
    - Destiny Bond

    Latios @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Volt Switch
    - Magma Storm
    - Psystrike

    Shuckle @ Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Foul Play
    - Leech Seed
    - Milk Drink
    - Perish Song

    Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind
    - Milk Drink
    - Rapid Spin

    My take on sand offense. The latios set can be interchanged with a sand rush variant but I prefer regenerator for prolonged matches.

    Weatherless offense
    Show Hide

    Escavalier @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - U-turn
    - Gyro Ball
    - Recover
    - V-create

    Dialga @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Heal Order
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin

    Landorus-Therian @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Destiny Bond
    - Nature Power
    - Bolt Strike
    - Swords Dance

    Giratina-Origin @ Draco Plate
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shell Smash
    - Judgment
    - Spore
    - Secret Sword

    Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Shift Gear
    - Facade
    - Spore
    - Dragon Tail

    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Ability: Imposter
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Skill Swap
    - U-turn
    - Soft-Boiled

    My weatherless offense I used near the end of the bw meta. Just a bunch of good strong pokemon in the meta it was in. With destiny bond prank lando and chansey as the main "emergency" defensive maneuvers.

    I'll see if I can rebuild the sun playstyle from replays at some point but those were the decent bw bh teams I could find from my archives.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
    Silver_Lucario42, fsk, aki0s and 2 others like this.
  12. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,498
    Reviving a bit just to grace everyone to our new banner made by user Centinela!

    [​IMG]

    Also I might have something special planned that involves old gen OMs so stay tuned...

    Plz dont let this thread die
    Rumors, Dunsparce Fanboy, nv and 5 others like this.
  13. Rumplestiltskin

    Rumplestiltskin I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Any reason why gen 6 Inverse doesn't have any bans or clauses on PS? There's nothing on neither the gen 7 nor the gen 6 thread that indicates that Inverse went AG.
  14. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    676
    I asked TI about this when I noticed and he said this:
  15. MAMP

    MAMP

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    955
    Hey everyone! After a bunch of thought and discussion, me and Funbot have decided to ban Belly Drum and Soul Dew from ADV BH. Simply put, the defensive tools just don't exist in this generation to handle either of these threats reliably and we felt that the metagame would be a lot more interesting without them.

    This means that the ruleset is now:

    BANS
    Pokemon: Slaking
    Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, Wonder Guard
    Items: Soul Dew
    Moves: Belly Drum

    Clauses: Sleep Clause, OHKO Clause

    With that being said, ADV (Gen III) BH is one of the best metagames I've ever played and I think everyone should give it a try. Here's a short guide to the tier to help you build teams and get into it:

    MAMP'S SUPER COOL GUIDE TO GEN III BALANCED HACKMONS

    If the only version of BH you've played is SM, ADV BH will undoubtedly look very foreign. The meta is pre-physical/special split, it has no team preview, and most of the powerful Pokemon and abilities that define later generations of BH are absent. Yet ADV BH is a very balanced and complex metagame with a large variety of viable Pokemon and strategies, and so much of it is still unexplored.

    IMPORTANT MECHANICAL DIFFERENCES
    Show Hide

    The most significant mechanical difference between Gen III and later generations is the lack of physical-special split. In other words, whether a move is physical or special is determined by its type.

    Physical: Normal, Ground, Rock, Fighting, Steel, Poison, Bug, Flying, Ghost
    Special: Fire, Water, Grass, Ice, Electric, Psychic, Dark, Dragon

    The main effect this has on the metagame is that it effectively limits the range of coverage options available for offensive mons. A huge part of the reason that Skarmory is such a good physical wall is because physical attackers literally can't hit it super effectively without going mixed. This essentially makes offense mons a little bit more predictable (besides the few that can go mixed), as they can't run literally any coverage move they want.

    ADV BH has no team preview. The Pokemon in the first slot of your party is sent out first, and you won't know what Pokemon your opponent has until they send them out. This creates an entirely new dynamic, as you attempt to guess the contents of your opponents team based on the sets that you've seen so far.

    Weather generated by Drizzle, Drought, and Sand Stream lasts indefinitely (or until replaced by a different weather). Rain Dance, Sunny Day, and Sandstorm work as they do in later generations.

    Sandstorm does not boost the special defense of rock types.

    Outrage has 90 base power. Don’t use it.

    Tail Glow only gives +2 special attack.

    Explosion halves the opponents defense before dealing damage, effectively giving it 500 base power. This makes it an exceptionally powerful luring option, even on special attackers.

    Fake Out and ExtremeSpeed have only +1 priority.

    Black Glasses, Magnet et al only give a 1.1x boost.

    Sitrus Berry only recovers 30 HP rather than 25%.

    Sturdy doesn’t work like it does in later generations, only protecting the Pokemon from OHKO moves like Sheer Cold and Fissure (which are banned). This means that Sturdy Shedinja does not work the way you might hope.

    The trapping effect of Block and Mean Look can be passed with Baton Pass.

    Wish always heals 50% of the recipients HP and is not based on the HP of the mon that used Wish.

    Substitute does not block Transform.

    If I've missed something important here please let me know!


    THREATLIST
    Show Hide

    Offensive Threats
    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo's fantastic speed and Special Attack make it one of the scariest late-game sweepers in the metagame, although its poor offensive typing makes it difficult for it to get past most defensive mons without setting up. Tail Glow is its scariest set, but Mewtwo has a huge range of viable options.

    Checks and counters: Bulky steels, bulky psychics, dark types, defensive Kyogre, Ho-oh, Blissey
    Sample set (open)

    Mewtwo @ Leftovers
    Ability: Insomnia / Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt / Sacred Fire
    - Ice Beam / Crunch / Taunt

    [​IMG]
    Excellent offensive stats and great STABs make Rayquaza one of the most powerful and unpredictable wallbreakers in the tier. Rayquaza can easily go mixed and can tailor its moveset to beat any defensive Pokemon it wants, and can even set up with Dragon Dance to shred unprepared offense teams.

    Checks and counters: Bulky flying resists (especially those with a ground immunity), random Intimidate mons, Lugia, faster mons with ice/dragon moves (ie Latios, Mewtwo, Raikou)
    Sample set (open)

    Rayquaza @ Choice Band
    Ability: Guts / Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Aeroblast
    - Earthquake / Superpower
    - Extreme Speed
    - Trick / Explosion / Thunderbolt

    [​IMG]
    The raw power of Kyogre's STAB rain-boosted water moves is unmatched in ADV BH, and practically necessitates a bulky water resist or Water Absorb mon on every team. Kyogre is both the best Drizzle user and the best Swift Swimmer, making it the backbone of rain teams.

    Checks and counters: Lati@s, defensive Kyogre (especially Volt Absorb), Celebi, Blissey, Water Absorb
    Sample set (open)

    Kyogre @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
    Ability: Drizzle / Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow / Water Spout
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder / Recover

    [​IMG]
    While it is no longer the metagame defining juggernaut it was before the Soul Dew ban, Latios remains one of the scariest set-up sweepers in the tier. Latios' speed and special attack stats are excellent, and its dragon STAB is resisted only by steel types, giving it a lot of freedom to tailor its coverage to whatever your team needs.

    Checks and counters: Bulky steels, Blissey, Lugia, defensive Kyogre
    Sample set (open)

    Latios @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
    Ability: Intimidate / Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow
    - Dragon Claw
    - Thunderbolt / Sacred Fire
    - Recover / Toxic

    [​IMG]
    While it suffers somewhat from the prevalence of flying types and Levitate users in the tier, Groudon is still a powerful offensive threat. Earthquake hits extremely hard against anything that doesn't resist it, especially when boosted by Choice Band or Dragon Dance.

    Checks and counters: Lugia, Levitate, Celebi, Intimidate, defensive Kyogre, Zapdos, Skarmory
    Sample set (open)

    Groudon @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
    Ability: Guts / Hustle
    Adamant Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Dragon Dance / Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Extreme Speed / Megahorn / Explosion

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax's niche is its decent bulk and access to STAB Extreme Speed, making it a potent revenge killer and powerful sweeper in the late game. However, it doesn't have the same raw wallbreaking power as other offensive mons and so has to rely a lot on its coverage moves to get through many common defensive mons.

    Checks and counters: Normal resists (especially those with ground immunities), Intimidate, burn
    Sample set (open)

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Ability: Guts / Insomnia
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Extreme Speed
    - Earthquake / Superpower
    - Shadow Ball

    [​IMG]
    Raikou has a very nice speed tier, putting it just ahead of Lugia, Lati@s, and Modest Mewtwo. Additionally, Raikou has decent bulk, a very useful flying resistance and only 1 weakness. Its Thunderbolt hits many of the tier's best special walls super effectively, and it can pair that with Ice Beam for unresisted coverage. Put together, Raikou is a powerful and versatile special attacker that poses a serious threat to all playstyles.

    Checks and counters: Volt Absorb, Celebi, Lati@s, Groudon, Blissey
    Sample set (open)

    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate / Water Absorb / Drizzle
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow / Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt / Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic / Recover / Substitute

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos occupies a similar niche to Raikou, trading speed for slightly better special attack and a crucial flying typing. Zapdos' immunity to Earthquake makes it a good offensive check to Rayquaza and Groudon, and the extra 10 base special attack let it achieve a few OHKOs and 2HKOs that Raikou misses. Zapdos' speed tier is notably worse than Raikou's however.

    Checks and counters: Volt Absorb, Celebi, Lati@s, Groudon, Blissey
    Sample set (open)

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drizzle / Intimidate
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow / Calm Mind
    - Thunder / Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover

    [​IMG]
    Ho-oh has an awkward offensive typing and faces a ton of competition from Rayquaza, but it finds a niche as arguably the best sun abuser and a solid offensive Mewtwo check. Sun-boosted Sacred Fire hits very hard despite Ho-oh's middling special attack, and Ho-oh has the tools to deal with most common fire resists. Purely physical sets are largely done better by Rayquaza, but it can run a decent Bulk Up set that takes advantage of its great special bulk.

    Checks and counters: Kyogre, Flash Fire, Lati@s, Tyranitar, rock moves
    Sample set (open)

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought / Chlorophyll
    Modest / Timid Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Sacred Fire
    - Tail Glow / Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Aeroblast
    - Recover / Ice Beam / Aeroblast

    Niche offensive threats:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Defensive Threats
    note: insomnia and natural cure are good options on basically all of these mons, i didnt slash them on the sample sets bc i couldnt be bothered

    [​IMG]
    Lugia's unmatched mixed bulk and great speed stat make it the premier wall of ADV BH. Lugia can perform a huge variety of defensive roles, and with the right set can tango with the scariest offensive threats that the metagame has to offer. On top of this, Lugia is also one of the fastest Pokemon in ADV BH, bolstering its support capabilities significantly.
    Sample set (open)

    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb / Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Toxic
    - Whirlwind
    - Aeroblast
    - Soft-Boiled

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory is practically unbreakable on the physical side due to its amazing defense stat and a complete lack of physical weaknesses. Skarm is probably the best counter available for Groudon, Snorlax, and physical Rayquaza. Additionally, an immunity to both Spikes and Toxic make it quite difficult to wear down. However, its special bulk is quite bad, and so despite a great set of resistances it has a lot of trouble standing up to most special attackers.
    Sample set (open)

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb / Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spikes / Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp / Aeroblast
    - Whirlwind

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi boasts a fantastic defensive typing, great mixed bulk, an important speed tier and solid offensive stats. With Levitate, it can take on most physical attackers, and with Flash Fire it beats most special attackers.
    Sample set (open)

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate / Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Will-O-Wisp / Toxic

    [​IMG]
    Registeel offers more bulk than Jirachi, but at the cost of Rachi's usable offense stats and a lot of speed. Thus, Registeel makes for a better answer to mons like Mewtwo and Latios, but is probably better suited for stallier teams that don't mind the momentum that it gives up.
    Sample set (open)

    Registeel @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate / Flash Fire / Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Whirlwind

    [​IMG]
    Celebi's crucial resistances to electric, water, ground, and psychic, combined with Thick Fat to cover its fire and ice weaknesses, allow it to comfortably take on Mewtwo, Groudon, Kyogre and the electrics. However, while it has good offensive stats, its STABs are very bad.
    Sample set (open)

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Toxic
    - Giga Drain

    [​IMG]
    Blissey is the ultimate special wall, but she is very passive and gets absolutely trashed by any physical attacker. Blissey is a crucial member of any ADV BH stall team, and all offense teams need to have a way to break her. Blissey's huge HP stat makes her a viable user of Transform, which she can use to take advantage of mons trying to set up on her.
    Sample set (open)

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate / Immunity
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Heal Bell / Seismic Toss
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Baton Pass

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos' niche defensive typing and decent all around bulk make it one of the best answers to Rayquaza, Groudon, and many Ho-oh sets.
    Sample set (open)

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat / Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Spikes

    [​IMG]
    Latias beats many of the tier's best special attackers thanks to a very good set of resistances, although it does rely somewhat on Thick Fat to protect it from very common ice type coverage.
    Sample set (open)

    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat / Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Dragon Claw
    - Rapid Spin / Sacred Fire
    - Toxic


    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar is the best Mewtwo counter available, being immune to its STAB and not weak to any of its common coverage. With the right immunity ability, TTar can also take on Kyogre (Water Absorb), electrics (Volt Absorb), or Groudon/Rayquaza (Levitate).
    Sample set (open)

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb / Volt Absorb / Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Sassy Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Pursuit
    - Slack Off
    - Rock Slide


    [​IMG]
    Ho-oh's defensive typing is extremely awkward - it's immune to ground, but can't wall Groudon because it dies to Rock Slide, and it can't take full advantage of its special bulk because of its weaknesses to water and electric moves, which are carried by most common special attackers. Its best defensive sets run Volt Absorb, to take on electrics and some Mewtwo/Latios sets.
    Sample set (open)

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Sassy Nature
    - Milk Drink
    - Sacred Fire
    - Aeroblast / Whirlwind
    - Spikes / Heal Bell

    [​IMG]
    Kyogre has great special bulk and an excellent defensive typing, letting it run some very potent defensive sets. Ironically, Kyogre is one of the best counters to itself if it runs Volt Absorb, which also lets it take on electrics and helps it against Mewtwo/Latios sets with Thunderbolt. It can also run Intimidate to take on Groudon, physical Ho-oh and some Rayquaza sets.
    Sample set (open)

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb / Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Whirlwind


    niche defensive threats: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Other Threats
    [​IMG]
    As the fastest Pokemon in the metagame, Deoxys-S performs a variety of support roles, particularly in the lead slot with Spore. Deo-S is a great Spikes lead and an effective Baton Passer, making it an important part of the lead metagame.
    Sample set (open)

    Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Speed Boost / Insomnia
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Spore
    - Tail Glow / Spikes


    GUIDE TO ABILITIES
    Show Hide

    One of the features that really sets ADV BH apart from other iterations of BH is the lack of powerful abilities. Almost all of the powerful abilities that define later generations of BH -- Imposter, Prankster, Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Adaptability etc. -- are completely absent here. This isn't to say that abilities are worthless, but most are not nearly as splashy as abilities found in later generations.

    The main effect of this is that there is a lot less opportunity cost to running niche or situational abilities. Running an ability like Water Absorb just to check Kyogre would be pretty questionable if options like Poison Heal or Magic Bounce were available, but when the best alternatives are abilities like Intimidate and Natural Cure, it's far more reasonable.

    OFFENSIVE ABILITIES

    Speed Boost
    - Speed Boost is strong on almost any offensive mon, especially those with set up moves like Tail Glow or Swords Dance.
    Hustle - Hustle offers a substantial power boost and makes mons like Choice Band Rayquaza practically unwallable, but the cost of reduced accuracy is a real one. A high risk, high reward ability.
    Guts - Flame Orb and Toxic Orb don't exist in Gen III, so there's no reliable way to status yourself to turn on Guts. However, Will-o-Wisp and Toxic are common enough that it is easy to get your Guts mon statused by just switching it into a status move. Groudon, Rayquaza, and Snorlax all often run Guts, so its a good idea to not just mindlessly click Wisp against these mons until you've figured out their ability.
    Magnet Pull - Magnet Pull is excellent at picking apart defensive cores and making holes for mons like Mewtwo and Snorlax which often struggle against steels. However, the prevalence of immunity abilities means that there is no single Magnet Puller that can trap every viable steel.

    WEATHER ABILITIES

    Drizzle / Swift Swim
    - Rain is the most powerful of the three weathers because it has the best abuser in Kyogre. Kyogre is excellent as both a rain setter and Swift Swimmer, but there are plenty of other good rain abusers, like Latios, Zapdos, and Rayquaza.
    Rain Dish - Rain Dish provides an absurd amount of longevity under rain, making it an excellent choice on more defensively oriented rain teams.
    Drought / Chlorophyll - There aren't as many good sun abusers as there are good rain abusers, but Sun is still a powerful playstyle. Ho-oh is a great choice on Sun as basically the only good fire type in the metagame, and mons like Latios, Rayquaza, and Groudon all benefit a lot from Chlorophyll.
    Sand Stream - Sand Stream doesn't boost the special defense of rock types and there are no abilities that synergise with it (besides Sand Veil, but dont use that). Sand is thus difficult to build a team around, but it is still good for shutting down opposing weather teams and the chip damage can help to wear down some mons.

    TYPE IMMUNITY/RESISTANCE ABILITIES

    Water Absorb
    - Water Absorb is run just to beat Kyogre / rain teams. It's best on mons that aren't weak to Kyogre's common ice/electric coverage, like Raikou, Jirachi, or Tyranitar.
    Flash Fire - Mons like Mewtwo and Latios often run fire coverage to hit steels, and Flash Fire is a great option to help wall those.
    Volt Absorb - Many prominent special attackers rely heavily on electric coverage to hit certain defensive mons, so Volt Absorb is a good choice to help wall those mons. Additionally, it almost completely shuts down Zapdos and Raikou. Kyogre, Lugia, Skarmory, and Ho-oh all commonly run Volt Absorb.
    Levitate - Levitate is great on any rock, steel, or electric type (except Skarm and Zapdos for obvious reasons). Levitate can turn any mon into a Groudon counter, and is also very good against Rayquaza which often relies on Earthquake to hit flying resists.
    Thick Fat - Thick Fat is somewhat niche, but it's viable on certain defensive mons that want to protect themselves from ice coverage, particularly Celebi, Latias, and Groudon.

    STATUS BLOCKING ABILITIES

    Insomnia / Vital Spirit
    - Insomnia and Vital Spirit are staples of the format. I would recommend having one on every team -- Spore is very common, and having a mon that can switch into it without fear is invaluable.
    Natural Cure - Natural Cure is an excellent ability on a wide variety of mons -- it provides your team with a good status sponge, makes walls difficult to wear down with Toxic, and offensive mons with nothing better to do can run it to heal themselves of an otherwise crippling burn or paralysis.
    Immunity - Immunity is at its best on bulky set-up sweepers like Calm Mind Kyogre, as many defensive teams rely on Toxic to beat these mons.

    MISCELLANEOUS ABILITIES
    Intimidate
    - Intimidate is usually run on defensive Pokemon to help soften the blows from mons like Groudon and Snorlax.
    Suction Cups - Suction Cups is a fairly niche choice, but it's good on some stallbreaking set up mons like Sub + CM Kyogre, as stall teams often rely on phazing moves to deal with these mons.


    GUIDE TO ITEMS
    Show Hide

    ADV BH has three (3) viable items.

    Leftovers [​IMG] The item of choice for most sets. Leftovers goes on pretty much anything and it’s always good. Every defensive Pokemon should run this, and most offensive mons should strongly consider it. If you aren’t sure what item to put on your mon, Leftovers is always a good choice. Think of it as the default item: only run other stuff if you have good reason to.

    Lum Berry [​IMG] Lum is a great option on offensive sets to help play around all of the status moves flying around. It’s especially a good choice on lead sets (to dodge Spore) and on physical set-up sweepers like Dragon Dance Groudon (to dodge Will-o-Wisp).

    Choice Band [​IMG] Band is the only choice item available in this generation, and the only viable damage-boosting item in the meta. Almost any decent physical attacker can run Band to become a very effective wallbreaker, particularly Groudon and Rayquaza. As well, tricking Choice Bands is one of the best ways to break through stall.

    Other stuff
    Stat boosting berries (Liechi, Petaya, Salac): These are a bit worse than they are in standard ADV tiers considering that every Pokemon gets far better options for setting up, but I figured they’re at least worth a mention. I’ve never been able to make them work, but maybe you can!

    Sitrus Berry only recovers 30 HP in this gen. Just use Leftovers instead.

    The items that give a boost to a specific type of move only give a 1.1x boost in this gen, which is pretty negligible.

    SAMPLE TEAMS
    Show Hide

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]Rain[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    - Milk Drink

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover

    Groudon @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Megahorn

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Toxic

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Ability: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Spikes
    - Recover
    - Whirlwind
    - Aeroblast

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Insomnia
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Whirlwind
    - Surf

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]Explosion Snorlax[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Ability: Insomnia
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Recover
    - Aeroblast
    - Whirlwind

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Extreme Speed
    - Explosion
    - Superpower

    Mewtwo @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam

    Rayquaza @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Aeroblast
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Extreme Speed

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Rock Slide
    - Thunder Wave
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]Latios + Magnet Pull[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Groudon @ Choice Band
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Trick
    - Megahorn

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Spikes
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Insomnia
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Tail Glow
    - Dragon Claw
    - Thunderbolt
    - Recover

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Sacred Fire
    - Earthquake
    - Recover
    - Taunt

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin
    - Thunderbolt

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance
    - Recover



    If I've missed something here please let me know!
  16. Eien

    Eien I'll face myself
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Monotype Co-Leader

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,425
    Quantum Tesseract likes this.
  17. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,498
    Announcement:

    After further playtesting with the esteemed champ himself MAMP, we concluded that the Aldaron's Proposal will be enforced upon Gen IV BH. Basically insinuating that one can no longer place a weather ability + a speed boosting weather ability (ie: Drizzle + Swift Swim or Drought + Chlorophyll) on the same team. This was mainly due to the fact that weather wars had been extremely prominent and games basically boil down to who could keep their own respective weather up longer (or if its the same weather, who's speed control won the speed tie), creating an environment that heavily restricted teambuilding.

    Replay of this in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4customgame-612448464

    We will also be reviewing a potential sleep clause after further testing of this new change. Stay tuned for the announcement (and for future potential fun event!)
  18. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,498
    Announcement:

    After some deliberation with the majority of past Gen V BH players, we have finally agreed upon implementing a Sleep Clause in the metagame before the BH Snake Draft begins. This was mainly due to it being incredibly difficult to stop certain tactics such as Mold Breaker + Spore due to the different sleep mechanics within the generation in addition to the lack of Grass-type immunity and items such as Safety Goggles.

    This is a change that will definitely shake up the BW BH meta, but is one that felt necessary by a majority of players.
  19. jasprose

    jasprose

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    121
    Speaking of shaking up the gen 5 bh meta, since the pokestar studio mons are implemented on showdown and were apparently hackable onto teams on cart back in gen 5, should they be allowed in gen 5 bh on showdown?
    Silver_Lucario42 likes this.
  20. lost heros

    lost heros Meme Master

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    350
    Can we please normalize Old Gens 1v1. Gen 7 and Gen 6 are played as bring 3 pick 1 as well as Focus Sash being banned. Gen 5 was played as bring just 1 and Focus Sash was never banned, (despite it being listed as such under the banlist). And I have no idea how Gen 3 1v1 was played, but I have a feeling it was like Gen 5.
  21. jasprose

    jasprose

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    121
    Just to add on to this (and bump up this thread), here's someone who codes saying that they were in fact hackable onto teams in game
    [16:31] jasp(=^-^=)baking: wait mac, pokestar studio mons are hackable onto in game teams in gen 5, right?
    [16:31] @ MacChaeger.: Yes
  22. Quantum Tesseract

    Quantum Tesseract Imasugu
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
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    1,879
    It's been a while, but iirc the pokestars didn't have back sprites and would crash the game if hacked onto the players party (which moght have been related). Is this not the case?
  23. Squawkerz

    Squawkerz Torchic is best mon

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Messages:
    420
    if these pokestar studios opponents are legal, then here is a list of all the usable types

    all of these have 100 base on all stats
    -Fighting (Black Belt)
    -Grass (Black Door)
    -Dark/Psychic (Brycen-Man)
    -Steel/Normal (F-00 and F-002)
    -Normal (Humanoid and Monica)
    -Dark/Ghost (Spirit)
    -Steel (MT and Transport)
    -Steel/Electric (MT2)
    -Dark (Monster)
    -Flying/Electric (UFO)
    -Psychic/Electric (UFO-2)
    -Fire (White Door)

    Out of these, the best one seems like Spirit, due to it having no weaknesses. Humanoid/Monica could be useful, but it would likely be outclassed by Chansey, Blissey, Slaking, and Regigigas. Brycen-Man, UFO-2, and F-00(2) could all use their unique types to throw an opponent off.
  24. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun better be a good mon
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    I'd like to think it's not the case, otherwise there's a bit of explaining that needs to be done.

    EDIT: I will note that it is incredibly unstable (as in it would constantly hatch if you walk and turn into an egg after a battle) according to a source, which may be where this claim came from, but in-battle it's perfectly usable
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  25. Vid

    Vid Love Yourz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

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    705
    Before I forget, Monotype now has its own Past-Gen Mega Thread where stuff has been updated to reflect recent metagame trends (mostly Ice becoming a great anti-meta type in BW along with a couple other minor things)
    The thread can be found here
    motherlove likes this.

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