I know some German from high school/college, from what I could tell they didn't say anything too important that hasn't been revealed already, just general stuff about how they wanted to remake Hoenn
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Sticky Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire
- Thread starter DHR-107
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Return is probably more likely to get run than Double Edge. After the 30% Aerilate boost it is also stronger than Brave bird and unlike both Brave Bird and Double Edge, no recoil draw backs.
I'm lovein' M-Loppuny too! I'll repeat a few thing from the last 30 pages, for yah. based on trends with stat upgrades for past megas I think most people will say 126-ish or 130-ish atk is the likely stat M-Loppuny will be working with, 150 is possible but it's that more than a +60 boost. Here, actually, check out this little shindig I typed up 2 days ago: Link
As for High Jump Kick here are some other links: Link-o and Link-arooni
So I would say it's 99% safe to say HJK is in the move pool. And Return and HJK don't get "pretty good coverage" they actually get the best possible coverage in the game! once you factor in Scrappy it is actually impossible to match together 2 Pokemon types that can resits both Normal and Fighting STAB. M-Loppuny can hit everything in the entire game neutrally at minimum! Given the perfect neutral coverage and option to pick out an elemental punch of your choosing for extra SE coverage I think the PuP set will probably be viable in tiers not called OU, which are likely the ones M-Loppuny will land in. Don't forget STAB ghost-hitting Fake Outs for priority and fee mega evovling turns when making non-PuP sets that aren't strictly for "sweeping." Oh, and check out all of Loppuny's cool support moves too while thinking of sets. (Heal bell, Encore, Healing Wish, and Magic Coat to name a few.) Sets like Fake Out/Healing Wish/HJK/Retun could be really potent too.
So many people go straight to DD sets. maybe I'm wrong.... I don't know..... maybe DD is what M-Alteria will be doing.... I guess it's atk is getting a boost after all..... so that's like what? 6 megas with DD sets?
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Confirming what Jebus said (my German is alright, in any case good enough to read and understand the subtitles without any trouble); they talked a bit about the development of Hoenn in the original games, then talked a bit about updating Hoenn (which was basically limited to 'we implemented new features like super secret bases and the primals in order to keep veteran players entertained, but it should still be great for new players', they didn't reveal anything new), and revealed Mega Audino (not stating any details apart from it gaining Fairy type and being the first Unova mega)
I'd go so far as to say Facade is a better option on DD Mega Altaria than Heal Bell. Assuming a 30 BST attack boost and factoring in STAB and the Pixelate power boost, you're looking at an attack that outdamages Azumarill's CB Play Rough at +0. Facade on Mega Salamence has similar potential, and it doesn't hurt that Fairy and Flying attacks are some of the most spammable in the current metagame. To put things in perspective, a -resisted- Facade coming from either Pokemon would do damage comparable to a super effective 70 BP attack coming from the same Pokemon, and unlike Mega Pinsir, the bulkiness of those two Pokemon is far more likely to draw status (as an added note, they also make Keldeo really, really nervous about throwing around Scalds). I'm really excited for both Pokemon, especially since I've had a shiny Adamant Altaria since Ruby and Sapphire first came out, and it looks like it'll finally be useful.
Mega Audino is the other one I'm really pumped for, since it's something we haven't yet seen - a doubles/ triples specialist mega. I'm less excited for Mega Slowbro, but this is more sour grapes than anything else.
I really understand the reluctance, given the prevalence of setup sweeping megas, but given its ability, DD seems to be the most logical set for M-Altaria. Imagine if Sylveon got Quiver Dance and special normal attacks with base powers of 102, 120 and 140 instead of its 90 BP Hyper Voice. Would we still be using it a a cleric/ wall or as a setup sweeper?
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I don't know any Japanese or German, but according to TV Tropes Masuda himself said "Hoenn confirmed".
DD Altaria will be pretty medicore. I mean it could work, cause Pixilate Return and Flamethrower for Skarmory, but I really doubt its attack will go any higher than base 110.
What I think it will be REALLY good at is a defensive set. Base form is already respectably bulky, it's only going to get bulkier, Fairy/Dragon is absolutely fantastic, it has reliable recovery, and a great movepool and good uninvested offense in Pixilate Return/Hyper Voice. (Theoretically) checks BOTH forms of charizard, Keldeo, Thundurus, Lati@s, Dragonite, Garchomp, Mega Gyarados, Rotom-W... it's gonna be great.
...How?
Assuming base 110 attack, M-Altaria's Double Edge is only marginally less powerful than Azumarill's Play Rough and stronger than Mega Tyranitar's Stone Edge. Compared in particular to the latter, it has a vastly superior defensive typing, access to instant recovery, and has no fear of status due to access to both Facade and Heal Bell. To date, no Pokemon is able to OHKO it with priority - assuming no increased defenses, Mega Scizor and Talonflame do between 70-80% with Bullet Punch and Brave Bird respectively. I really doubt it's going to be mediocre.
252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Facade (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slaking: 271-321 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slaking: 268-316 (60.6 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This assumes Altaria gains 30 attack for a total of 100 and is burned/ poisoned/ paralysed.
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People there were asking if at any time a pokémon changed its movepool... Heck, since Yellow it happened. Pikachu didn't learn Thunderbolt in RB, only with TM. Its first natural Thunderbolt came in Yellow. And Nidorino learned Double Kick at level 51 iirc, whereas it learned it in level 12 or so in Yellow.
btw, from the beginning of times, I've always started with the Fire Pokémon. Always. Without a single exception (when there was an option), I've always chose the firemon... For the first time, I'll change it, for ORAS. I've never used Blaziken competitively. My first Hoenn competitive team was monocolor, and it was blue, so no fire chicken there. My other teams were all, for some reason blazikenless. When he started to learn speed boost, he was banned, so well, no Blaziken there as well. However, I did build a team with Swampert in RS, that I was never able to test, since the whole world has moved to another generation while I was playing Sapphire, so I'll start with Mudkip. I already have a Blazikenite, and I can even trade that event Torchic from Y, since I've never touched that thing. So I'll start with mudkip, to be able to get Mega Swampert sooner rather than later (they'll probably make all the Mega Stones available, like before). This is a weird feeling.
btw, from the beginning of times, I've always started with the Fire Pokémon. Always. Without a single exception (when there was an option), I've always chose the firemon... For the first time, I'll change it, for ORAS. I've never used Blaziken competitively. My first Hoenn competitive team was monocolor, and it was blue, so no fire chicken there. My other teams were all, for some reason blazikenless. When he started to learn speed boost, he was banned, so well, no Blaziken there as well. However, I did build a team with Swampert in RS, that I was never able to test, since the whole world has moved to another generation while I was playing Sapphire, so I'll start with Mudkip. I already have a Blazikenite, and I can even trade that event Torchic from Y, since I've never touched that thing. So I'll start with mudkip, to be able to get Mega Swampert sooner rather than later (they'll probably make all the Mega Stones available, like before). This is a weird feeling.
This completely overlooks the team utility of having Heal Bell.
Which is why I specified DD Altaria.
Thank you! Thank you! I kept saying that and so many people were just really into DD but I'm glad someone else agrees. Even though there are no Fairy type Dragon Dancers and Alteria will have some powerful STABs with it's ability it's just so outclassed by both the other Mega Dragons and probably the non Dragon Mega Dragon Dancers as well (it might have a few advantages of TTar or Gyara I guess) But yeah, I think the really exciting sets are gonna be the Heal Bell + Roost sets, with some other support move and mono attacking Fairy attack or maybe two attack options. Personally I think Perish Song/Heal Bell/Roost/Hyper Voice sounds promising. With max investment going either physical or special to be determined (but physical will be cool for Charizard X.)
I get 'there are too many DDing megas', really, but I really can't see how it'd be outclassed. Double Edge on Pixilate M-Altaria outdamages Tough Claws Zard X's Dragon Claw on a neutral target. It outdamages everything in Mega TTar's arsenal. You're looking at a potential DDer - one with one of the best defensive typings in the game - that hits as hard as -any DDer in the current metagame- with one of the most spammable offensive types, which either can heal itself of status or actually gets stronger when statused. Oh, and one which can survive any priority in the game and which can even conceivably put its counters to sleep. That's scary.
I'd actually love a defensive mega, but the fact is that Gamefreak gave M-Altaria buffed offenses and an offensive ability.
Really don't want to get into more in-depth calcs in this thread, since that isn't this thread's purpose, but just play around on the calculator.
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That's just plain false. Hits as hard as who? Tough Claws boost = Pixilate Boost. But Tough Claws applies to most of the attacks Charizard X runs not just one. And Double Edge is a powerful recoil attack so shouldn't you compare it to Flare Blitz? Is it out damaging that? (*spoiler* it isn't) I bet Dragon Claw out damages Alteria coverage moves too. And what atk stat are you even using to determine this? Charizard X has base 60 more than regular Alteria... do you REALLY think Alteria's is getting 60 in just atk when it's supposedly getting big enough boosts in sp.atk and def to warrant mentioning as well? There just no way it's going to be out damaging Charizard X OR M-Slalamence for that matter. And if it's got "one of the best defensive typings in the game" shouldn't it take on a.... defensive role?
I'm gonna remain HEAVILY skeptical of Dragon Dance Alteria until after we find out that it got stats that they seem to be hinting it isn't getting...
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If you read my previous posts, you'll know I've been assuming +30 attack for a total of 100 - likely to be an underestimate rather than an overestimate given GF have explicitly stated that Altaria's attack and s.attack are going to be buffed. Just go on the calculator. Put in +30 attack for a total of 100. Pick a normal type Pokemon. Compare the damage. No, it can't compare to Zard X's Flare Blitz overall for raw damge, but nothing can (although, ironically, Pixilate Facade comes pretty close). Despite this fact there are multiple DDers present in the metagame that aren't Zard X. M-Altaria outdamages all of those. You might as well say that DD Tyranitar or Gyarados are pointless and outclassed.
A good defensive typing might lend itself to a defensive role, but it -also- provides opportunities to set up, especially when it's a similarly effective offensive typing.
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(base 100 atk, STAB, Adamant Altaria)
252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 309-364 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 381-448 (54.1 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(this calc is using Salamences current atk stat which will DEFFINITLEy be higher in mega... but it already out-damages with the same move)
252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 382-450 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
These calcs are dumb because they're all more or less the same thing except with a different moves and or base atk... But literally EVERY other Dragon Dancer has considerably more atk than base 100. So of course they're all gonna out damage Alteria. If Alteria is out damaging Gayrados it's just barely, and because Waterfall has weak sauce BP next to Pixilate Double Edge (of course it doesn't recoil and can flinch so..) And I don't think +30 is an underestimate given how many stats Alteria has been listed as increasing relative to other megas... We can also compare speed to see how outclassed it is. How much do you think Alteria will get? Cause it's getting points in it's Sp.Atk and Def too so it's not to hard to expect it's also gonna be slower than every one of them except TTar and maybe MAYBE Gyara.
But Kurona is right. Dragon Dancing will be viable. It's gonna be seriously improved from non Mega Altaria's excuse for a DD set... but it's not gonna be high ladder viable. Not real competitively. Because if you want to win, if it's a tournament, if there are prizes involved, or if you just really care about the victory, then you are gonna use a Dragon Dancer that hits harder faster. Altarea is defensively better than a lot of them (or all of them) but it's not as immediately threatening either. They all force switches so it's not like Alteria's gonna magically find way more opportunities to set up than them. Dragon Dancing is gonna be generally the same for it. It got a good offensive attack in Fairy STAB but otherwise Mega Altaria is sitting at almost the same level below Mega Salamence as Altaria sat below Salamence. But defensive Altaria now has no x4 weakness and more resistances than I'm gonna list. DD Altaria would be a REALLY strong candidate for that one thread. It just brings nothing new or worthwhile to your team that other things can't already do better. But Bulky Support Wall Altaria will be pro.
........ or so I say, lol, we don't know everything yet so I could totally be wrong, but based on what's sitting in front of us now.... it's like Sergeant Spooky said. DD Alteria will be pretty mediocre.
252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 309-364 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 381-448 (54.1 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(this calc is using Salamences current atk stat which will DEFFINITLEy be higher in mega... but it already out-damages with the same move)
252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 382-450 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
These calcs are dumb because they're all more or less the same thing except with a different moves and or base atk... But literally EVERY other Dragon Dancer has considerably more atk than base 100. So of course they're all gonna out damage Alteria. If Alteria is out damaging Gayrados it's just barely, and because Waterfall has weak sauce BP next to Pixilate Double Edge (of course it doesn't recoil and can flinch so..) And I don't think +30 is an underestimate given how many stats Alteria has been listed as increasing relative to other megas... We can also compare speed to see how outclassed it is. How much do you think Alteria will get? Cause it's getting points in it's Sp.Atk and Def too so it's not to hard to expect it's also gonna be slower than every one of them except TTar and maybe MAYBE Gyara.
But Kurona is right. Dragon Dancing will be viable. It's gonna be seriously improved from non Mega Altaria's excuse for a DD set... but it's not gonna be high ladder viable. Not real competitively. Because if you want to win, if it's a tournament, if there are prizes involved, or if you just really care about the victory, then you are gonna use a Dragon Dancer that hits harder faster. Altarea is defensively better than a lot of them (or all of them) but it's not as immediately threatening either. They all force switches so it's not like Alteria's gonna magically find way more opportunities to set up than them. Dragon Dancing is gonna be generally the same for it. It got a good offensive attack in Fairy STAB but otherwise Mega Altaria is sitting at almost the same level below Mega Salamence as Altaria sat below Salamence. But defensive Altaria now has no x4 weakness and more resistances than I'm gonna list. DD Altaria would be a REALLY strong candidate for that one thread. It just brings nothing new or worthwhile to your team that other things can't already do better. But Bulky Support Wall Altaria will be pro.
........ or so I say, lol, we don't know everything yet so I could totally be wrong, but based on what's sitting in front of us now.... it's like Sergeant Spooky said. DD Alteria will be pretty mediocre.
I gotta agree with that. They'll both be viable.
The reason I mentioned the Bulky DD set is because Alty already has one and it has been improved with better STAB attacks thanks to Pixelate.
Pixelate isn't as relevant for her role as a cleric/supporter. Her support moves are what they've always been.
Yes. I was thinking about a move analagous to Brave Bird in power and Double Edge came to mind first. But with Aerilate, Return actually fits the 'bill' better.
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252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 217-256 (30.8 - 36.3%) -- 59.7% chance to 3HKO.
That's not 'just barely'. That's a huge difference. 'It's just because waterfall is weaksauce', you say? Let's try Mega TTar:
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Surprise, he gets outdamaged as well.
You seem really fixated on base stats, and they're only half of the equation. The other half is the damage of the attacks used themselves, and Altaria's is simply in a class of its own, equalled only by Mega Salamence. Before you go off about coverage, ask yourself what exactly Altaria needs the coverage for?. What Pokemon are there that can a) resit its STAB Pixilate DE/ Facade and b) actually do something meaningful in return?
You say that Altaria is not as immediately threatening as the other DDers. I suppose Azumarill's Play Rough isn't threatening? Because M-Altaria's Double Edge hits just as hard. Off the top of my head, here's a list of top tier threats he can switch into and either wall the crap out of or outright scare out:
Charizard X
Keldeo
Thundurus
Charizard Y
Latias
Latios
Tyranitar
Terrakion
The speed doesn't really matter because M-Altaria a) has the defensive typing to get off multiple DDs (similar to TTar) and b) doesn't fear status due to access to Facade and Heal Bell. As it is, it's -already- faster than Mega Tyranitar and only 1 point slower than Mega Gyarados, whilst having comparable or superior switch in opportunities on account of its typing. It almost certainly will be easier to bring in than Zard X, with a superior defensive typing and lacking a SR weakness (in addition to being able to take status all day).
As for +30 attack as an estimate, no Pokemon to date has received less when Gamefreak have announced that stat as being raised in their pre-release hype.
'What's sitting in front of us now' is that Gamefreak have demonstrated every indication of turning Altaria into an offensive monster, giving it increased offensive stats and an offensive ability.
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Sigh....I'm tired of this argument again.... Neither of us even know.... just put some more thought into the calcs we both showed and what kind of coverage Altaria has to run.... but I'm done for now and I doubt anyone wants to take over... lol
Yeah, let's just stop this.
Being done implies you want to stop talking about it. 'Put some more thought into the calcs we both showed and what kind of coverage Altaria has to run' implies you believe my position requires clarification, and is frankly a little insulting. If you want to desist from the argument, please be a little more gracious about it and try not to throw in little jabs on the way out, otherwise expect a response.
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Let's talk about Mega-Audino for a sec (I've ignored it in my shitstorm against Mega-Retard.. I mean Mega-Slowbro :))
I'm just gonna throw this here
(A kawaii gif should be here, but unfortunately it's not showing up. Crap mobile version)
I'm just gonna throw this here
(A kawaii gif should be here, but unfortunately it's not showing up. Crap mobile version)
I love it, actually. I love the fact that it's geared for triples/ doubles battles, the fact that it comes from Gen 5, and the fact that none of us saw it coming. Makes it seem like anything might be possible.
I actually think the design is a huge improvement on the original as well.
With Contest Halls appearing where the battle tents were, I wonder how this bodes for the Battle Frontier? It's scary to have this doubt that it might not be there. I'm hoping it is post-game and they're just waiting until close to release day to announce it. My favorite venue was the one where you rented your pokemon. It introduced me to some pokemon I never thought I'd use and had some fun movesets to play around with.
Also, the Frontier Brain theme is one of the best themes in pokemon...
Also, the Frontier Brain theme is one of the best themes in pokemon...
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