Tournament OMPL V - Week 2

#56
if thimo and catalystic both played it, and catalystic went in with the intention of making it ompl (said so in the screenshot above), and thimo agreed because it seemed real, shouldn't the win be counted? it doesn't make sense to me turn around and say it was a joke if you seemed so serious about it, especially given the fact that the game was lost. it also says nowhere in the rules that it's against the rules to play a different gen, though it seems common sense, it's not explicitly put into place. next week it makes sense, but not now when it wasn't there. this has precedent before it in an roa tour (forget which) where both players agreed to not use spikes. both players willingly go into the match knowing what it counts for, and they technically didn't break any rules, so it counted. therefore, i don't think the battle needs to be rematched or counted as null. :x
 
#57
I think there's a big difference between gentleman's agreement not to use a mon/move/etc and playing what is essentially an entirely different metagame. If we suddenly decided to play BH instead of AG next week would that be acceptable?

Not sure if there's precedent in terms of SPL for example (dis)allowing players to play gen 6 OU instead of SM, but I'd be surprised if that were the case. Either way this is something more for antemortem to decide since the players themselves are split?

e: if this is actually a joke then imho this isn't the place for it
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#58
Gonna have to agree with @sinpi. Now that it's happened I guess it's upto ti and ante and probably it'd be a better solution to say before the game progressed that it was gen6 and restart, but "not being explicitly written" is a really shoddy excuse, so much so that I really did think it was a meme. OMPL has been using the current gen in every iteration. We also didn't explicitly say that you have to play your games on PS or PO, there shouldn't be ghosting, cheating, or that each round is a bo1 or you can substitute your game for any other format (which is basically equivalent to what happened, imo) - though I guess we should for the next few rounds
 

Thimo

I COULD BE BANNED!
#59
I think there's a big difference between gentleman's agreement not to use a mon/move/etc and playing what is essentially an entirely different metagame. If we suddenly decided to play BH instead of AG next week would that be acceptable?

Not sure if there's precedent in terms of SPL for example (dis)allowing players to play gen 6 OU instead of SM, but I'd be surprised if that were the case. Either way this is something more for antemortem to decide since the players themselves are split?
Playing BH is a different story, the matchups explicitly state "Anything Goes" and not Balanced Hackmons.

In SPL that's a different story. Here, a screenshot of the latest SPL finals. It clearly states SM
 
#60
Playing BH is a different story, the matchups explicitly state "Anything Goes" and not Balanced Hackmons.

In SPL that's a different story. Here, a screenshot of the latest SPL finals. It clearly states SM
Exactly and it infuriates me how this flaw is simply abused and made fun of in a, [what at least I was told] prestigious tournament. This draft was already memey and this whole situation was purely ridiculous. We need ante's state on this asap before we go on a 5 page rant before a decision is made
 
#61
Gonna have to agree with @sinpi. Now that it's happened I guess it's upto ti and ante and probably it'd be a better solution to say before the game progressed that it was gen6 and restart, but "not being explicitly written" is a really shoddy excuse, so much so that I really did think it was a meme. OMPL has been using the current gen in every iteration. We also didn't explicitly say that there shouldn't be ghosting, cheating, or that each round is a bo1 or you can substitute your game for any other format (which is basically equivalent to what happened, imo) - though I guess we should for the next few rounds
Yes there is a rule that says you can't ghost or cheat, it's said so in the OP under "Sportsmanship," which ties in with this http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tournament-rules-and-general-guidelines.3538684/.

Ghosting: The player in a tournament battle should be the one making their own decisions. Do not tell a player what move to make in a tournament battle (i.e. do not "ghost" them), and do not make your moves based on another person's suggestions. If we are made aware that someone playing a tournament battle is making some of their moves based mainly on the suggestions of someone else, punishments may be handed out to both parties involved.
I'm not saying it's not common sense, but using "well ghosting isn't explicitly stated" is not a fair response because it is a.) stated, and b.) it's something with much more serious consequences which don't relate to here at all.

I think there's a big difference between gentleman's agreement not to use a mon/move/etc and playing what is essentially an entirely different metagame. If we suddenly decided to play BH instead of AG next week would that be acceptable?

Not sure if there's precedent in terms of SPL for example (dis)allowing players to play gen 6 OU instead of SM, but I'd be surprised if that were the case. Either way this is something more for antemortem to decide since the players themselves are split?

e: if this is actually a joke then imho this isn't the place for it
That's not fair. Balanced Hackmons and Anything Goes are two different things. Anything Goes is Anything Goes, be it in Gen 6 or Gen 7, so Thimo makes very fair point that doesn't relate to the discussion at hand.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter, as it's ultimately antemortem's decision, but I do think it's entirely unfair to play the match with the intent of it being serious, lose the match, then claim the match was a joke and start a huge dilemma. It's just not right or fair.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#64
Unfixable, I was only pointing out how ridiculous it is to not call it common sense when everything else I listed is. We didn't "explicitly" state we're following those rules and if you really want to be pedantic, the format list has a specific meta that is called word-for-word, "Anything Goes"; the other one is called "[Gen 6] Anything Goes" which is not what was written there in that screenshot and the op. It seems really petty to me to try and justify these type of technicalities, that it partially makes me want a replay where before I didn't, and my team isn't even involved. In any event, I already said there's not much to be done now and ti already conceded the point, so I agree that we should wait for the host's decision.

E: as mlove brought up in the discussion thread, there is also nothing explicitly stating we have to play our games on PS balanced hackmons or PO balanced hackmons (which are drastically different)

E2: there is more discussion about this there as well which gives a better context on how it happened if it's needed