[On Site] A Guide to Rain Offense

[Legacy Raider]

Holy crap that's a lot to take in. I'm going to make a list of things I need to add and then mark them down once I've done it. This is more for my benefit so I can clearly see what needs to be done. If anyone thinks there is something else that needs added to the list, post here and I'll add it at the end.

RED = Done

• Fix formatting - Crobat and Relicanth.
• Add a paragraph on Kabutop's use in UU.
• Add Mantine as a threat in UU, and change Quagsire's section around so it reflects the need for HP Electric as Mantine is much more common.
• Change Gorebyss around to say that it has its pros and cons over Omastar, and that neither is superior in UU but both have their benefits.
• Add Rock Slide to Kabutops' move list and say its good for SD sets.
• Add calcs to Golduck's section to show how it is more of a 'check' than a counter as both it and opposing sweepers hit each other hard.
• Add Rotom-W as a support pokemon.
• Add Tentacruel as a big threat in OU because of its typing, SpD and Toxic Spikes. Say how 2 layers of Toxic Spikes is debilitating to a rain team.
• Add a section on in-battle strategy.
• Add section on Qwilfish's efficacy as a lead.
• Add Clefable, Rotom and Claydol as support pokemon in UU.
• Add Empoleon as a threat in OU.
• Add Starmie as a support pokemon in OU.
• NEW - Add Shedinja as a pokemon to watch out for in UU.
• NEW - Add Phione and Dewgong as support pokemon in UU.

 

[Itchni]

Add Omastar/Qwilfish's ability to lay down Spikes/Toxic Spikes, and Omastar can use Stealth Rock.

When your sweeping, your not setting up entry hazards, thats really stupid.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Neither Omastar nor Qwilfish have time to set down spikes. Qwilfish finds it hard to even get a Swords Dance in, let alone spend time laying spikes. They are not defensively inclined pokemon, and can do a lot more damage in that one turn with an attack than the spikes they lay will do the entire battle.

LR.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Does anyone have any ideas for support pokemon in UU? Currently I only have Lanturn and I hope to add more. I was thinking of adding Clefable, Claydol and Rotom, and I would love other suggestions.

Thanks, LR.

 

[Venom]

If we're gonna talk about good Rain Dance set-up in UU, pretty much anything bulky, such as Clefable, works, and Rotom is no exception

 

[Farewell]

Starmie?

Has Thunder+Surf as well as Dual Screens, and Recover to heal off damage. Rapid Spin + Natural Cure aint bad either.

Perhaps a Rain Dance Set:

Starmie: Damp Rock
Bold
252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

~ Rain Dance
~ Reflect
~ Thunder / Recover
~ Surf



UU: Dewgong! / Phione / Ampharos, there is even a Rain set in the Analysis http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ampharos, works like a UU Starmie with Rain + Screen Support.

Once I also tried a Froslass. She works surprisingly well:

Froslass: @ Damp Rock
Timid
252 HP / 252 Speed

Rain Dance
Taunt
Spikes / Filler
Destiny Bond

It works like a Suicide Spikes + Rain Lead.
Taunt opposing set-upers, and set down Spikes or Rain Dance to help your team sweep. Spikes + Ghost typing work well to prevent Rapid Spin while setting up. Froslass also works great to lure in fire types, in which case it can Destiny Bond or switch after setting up Rain Dance, and help your teammate sweep. Spikes can work like a Stealth Rock, allowing you to weaken strong Steels, Grounds, and Fighting types (like Poliwrath / Quagsire, etc.) that normally switch into Stealth Rocks with ease.

If you fear dieing, use Destiny Bond, to take opponent down with you. Destiny Bond also works perfectly with Taunt, and can be like Explosion to get your teammate in safely to abuse the Rain while taking out your foe with it.

 

[kingdra-13]

UU support pokes? How about Dewgong?

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dewgong

Together with reasonable bulk, Hydration and Rest, he could easily set-up rain in mid or late game. Dewgong could pseudo-haze with perish song, annoy with disable or encore and has 2 priority moves-Aqua Jet and Ice Shard-just to pick on weakened pokemon.

Oh, and for OU, you should include Rotom-W for support.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47227

Hydro Pump+Thunder in rain already sounds sweet. This washing machine also packs great bulkiness and passable SpA. Plus, its Shadow Ball 2HKOs Celebi. Oh yeah, it has screens.

Another tiny thing, on "The following effects occur when it is raining" section, you forgot to add Weather Ball turns Water-Type under rain and has 100 base power.

 

[Professor Dick Weed]

Thunder Wave can cripple many of the great swift swim users. A useful support move for any rain dance team is aromatherapy/heal bell. One of my best supporters on my rain dance team is shaymin, (not skymin, just plain ol' shaymin) Shaymin has phenominal defenses, an awesome resistance to ground type attacks (can take hits for relicanth, kabutops, and omastar) and an even better resistance to electric type attacks. Shaymin also has leech seed to heal its life orb equiped team mates, and of course aromatherapy to heal the entire team of status. Shaymin also makes a great status absorber thanks to rest and its ablilty.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Thanks for the advice, Venom, hhjj, Kingdra and PDW. I'll be making a lot of changes/ additions when I have some time.

 

[MetaNite]

This is a great guide so far. I don't really have much else to say.

First off, all Rain Dance teams are offensive. I don't really see how they couldn't be.

EDIT: I may have more to say soon...

I think Gyarados may want a mention. It's pretty much Azumarill with less attack and a hell of a lot more speed. Fighting resist is always nice when you've got Kaputops and/or Omastar.

 

[Farewell]

How about Empoleon setting up the Rain?

It can use Stealth Rock, takes hits pretty well with its typing, good Special Defense, Immune to Toxic Spikes, is a great Pokemon to sponge Dragon attacks with, and has fairly good Special Attack.

P.S. Not all Pokemon setting up need to be fast to set up Rain, look at Swampert.

Pairing it with a Rotom-H (Hydro Pump version) is a great coupling since they cover each others weaknesses.

 

[kingdra-13]

How about Empoleon setting up the Rain?

It can use Stealth Rock, takes hits pretty well with its typing, good Special Defense, Immune to Toxic Spikes, is a great Pokemon to sponge Dragon attacks with, and has fairly good Special Attack.

P.S. Not all Pokemon setting up need to be fast to set up Rain, look at Swampert.

Pairing it with a Rotom-H (Hydro Pump version) is a great coupling since they cover each others weaknesses.

Yeah. How about Zapdos and Celebi(both pokes get Rain Dance mentioned on the "Other Options")?

Both are reasonably bulky and with great offensive attributes. Zapdos has STABbed Thunder to toy with and Celebi has both Recover and Leech Seed to replenish his(it has a gender right?) health or help his teamates heal their.

 

[Caelum]

Guys, this guide is going to be excessively long and tedious if he lists and reviews every Pokemon that has access to Rain Dance that can "viably" use it.

LR, generally just cover the ones that are likely to be used. For example, no one uses Rain Dance Celebi or Froslass.

 

[Farewell]

Perhaps he can just have a mention of these Pokemon at the bottom or under similar Pokemon's roles. Ie: Briefly mention Empoleon in the comments regarding Swampert, or Ampharos, as another option for a slow Rain Dancer.

 

[Jibaku]

but Rock Smash allows Relicanth to use that extremely powerful Head Smash with no recoil.

Should be Rock Head

 

[Fatal Edge]

Um this is a suggestion. How about Poliwrath? It is a decent Tyranitar check since it is immune to those Rain Dance boosted Aqua Tails who Swampert would hate. It also makes a nice switch in to Blissey. It can also abuse STAB waterfall in the rain while still being the most defensive fighting type.

 

[kingdra-13]

Guys, this guide is going to be excessively long and tedious if he lists and reviews every Pokemon that has access to Rain Dance that can "viably" use it.

LR, generally just cover the ones that are likely to be used. For example, no one uses Rain Dance Celebi or Froslass.

Hmm...thats like saying no one uses Luvdisc so we don't need an analysis, but yeah, I do agree. Maybe add an "Other Options" section like on any Pokemon analysis. Maybe something like this:

--- Other Options ---

-----
OU
-----

[Insert Pokemon Picture Here]
•Pokemon-Rain Dance, Move, Move, Move

-----
UU
-----

[Inset Pokemon Picture Here]
•Pokemon-Rain Dance, Move, Move, Move

Yeah, but if it seems gay, just ignore this post(lol).
​

 

[Colloquy]

Gotta pimp Hariyama for support on Rain Dance teams. Takes out Blissey, Tyranitar, and Abomasnow easily, and uses Knock Off. Can also set up the rain.

- Knock Off
- Revenge
- Ice Punch
- Rain Dance

 

[Farewell]

Maybe even mention Hidden Power Grass as an option over Grass Knot incase there are some low weight Water types that HP Grass is better off hitting in UU, for Phione.

For the Dewgong set, suggest a Dewgong with (- Speed, + SpA) nature in the case of Aqua Jet over Surf. Aqua Jet benefits from its Attack stat, and it makes up for the lose of Speed with a high priority.

 

[umbarsc]

I already posted a better Phione.

Phione @ Damp Rock
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpD / 160 Def (* 0 Spe IV)
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- U-turn
- Surf

 

[MetaNite]

Noting what Caelum said about Celebi, but I still think Celebi has great benefits to Rain teams. It was on my first one.

Benefits itself from Rain by loosing its Fire weakness, sponges Fighting attacks that plague Kabutops and Omastar. It is a lot faster than other supports like Lanturn and Swampert, so even at low health it can still pull off a dance to get in one last sweeper.

It would probably go in Other Options though, if you make one. I don't think Phione should be put anywhere else, Dewgong only for UU. Note this guide is Rain Offense and Phione / Dewgong are more for stalling, am I right?

I'm also not entirely sure Uxie and Azelf need their own mention. You might aswell complete the trio by throwing in Mespirit...

 

[umbarsc]

Dewgong maybe, but Phione is definitely a viable supporter and should be included under the Support section. Articuno is another Pokemon that I feel should be added in the UU Support section because of the Rain Dance/U-turn combo.

 

[Legacy Raider]

I've updated the guide significantly, and I think I've covered every pokemon that really requires it in the guide. I think the guide is pretty much complete, and all that really remains is the Battle Strategy section which I plan on adding soon.

Another tiny thing, on "The following effects occur when it is raining" section, you forgot to add Weather Ball turns Water-Type under rain and has 100 base power.

Thanks, good catch. Fixed.

Gotta pimp Hariyama for support on Rain Dance teams. Takes out Blissey, Tyranitar, and Abomasnow easily, and uses Knock Off. Can also set up the rain.

- Knock Off
- Revenge
- Ice Punch
- Rain Dance

A bit too outlandish imo, although quite a good idea. Like Caelum said, I think I should stick with the most common and tested pokemon in the guide. So I'm not saying your set is bad, I'm just not adding it because it is very very rarely seen. Thanks anyway.

(helpful stuff)

Thanks, that was very helpful in writing up the descriptions for Phione and Dewgong.

I'm also not entirely sure Uxie and Azelf need their own mention. You might aswell complete the trio by throwing in Mespirit...

Azelf and Uxie are both excellent rain leads, both of which I have used to great effect on my rain teams. Mespirit, on the other hand, has nothing to really differentiate it from its siblings. It lacks Azelf's Explosion and Uxie's Memento, and is also very slow. If you want a fast, powerful suicidal rain lead that can do quite a bit of damage to the opponent, then go with Azelf. If you want a very bulky lead that almost guarantees you SR and helps your sweepers set up, then go with Uxie. I considered adding Mespirit too, but it really has a mediocrity complex and I don't think adding it has much merit. Thanks anyway.

Alright, the guide is in its final stages now. I'll post again when I update with the last section.

LR.

 

[Caelum]

I'll look this over more thoroughly later, but as a small thing if you want sprites in your guide; please use the Smogon sprites (hopefully chaos will load the Rotom sprites at a later date for our use) rather then an outside sources sprites.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Ok, I was using all the recent official Platinum sprites (from Bulbapaedia), but if you want I'll change them back to DP.

EDIT: Replaced all sprites apart from Rotom-W with the smogon dex's ones.