Trick/Switcheroo could also be listed as a counter.
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[on site] How to build a successful Baton Pass team in D/P
- Thread starter maddog
- Start date
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
The only problem with that is that Trick and Switcheroo are blocked by Substitute, which is usually up.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed, otherwise we shouldn't list Roar/WW since "Ingrain is usually up"
Not to mention that team posted has even 1 Poke that doesn't have SUB, then there's an open opportunity.
Generally, you only see Trick/ Switcheroo (in OU at least) on Alakazam, so it should be fairly predictable. However it could be mentioned, at least for the people that are making a BP team in UU, because it is fairly more common there.
Snatch seems like an interesting option. I used to use Roar in order to deal with Curselax on my BP team, and Snatch could have been better for that puporse. The main problem is that on the Pokemon you listed generally have better things to do, or are outright terrible (I'm looking at you Spinda). It might have potential, but I think it's uses are pretty limited. For example, it does steal recovery moves, but how often are things going to be damaged enough when facing a BP team that they need to use it? It seems to me the move has too little utility and is to situational to mention.
Completely agree. Snatch deserves a little mention but it shouldn't really be highlighted, it is too situational for most Pokemon. If you think about it, BP team members already have limits on there moveset. Typically it's: Baton Pass, Stat-Up Move, Attack-Move, Support move or Substitute. I just can't see how one could actually fit Snatch on someone's move set.
I didn't re-read your guide so if you mentioned this already and I forgot I'm sorry but it should probably be mentioned (just briefly like a sentence) that it is recommended you keep a substitute up at all times, or at least as much as possible, just in-case of critical hits. You don't want your +6 in everything guy to fall to a critical hit (especially from a priority move).
As in response to your post that responded to me: Yeah, I'm having fun with a BP team because I was new to the concept of BP teams I kinda had to play around and experiment and it's developed a lot over time.
This guide is really coming along. I think BP teams are some of the hardest teams to use, they require insane prediction skills really and you basically have to know every Pokemon's possible move set because you'll struggle if he one guy goes down. That being said, I think this guide helps to break it down so someone might actually be able to build a successful BP team. Hope it goes on site soon as I think more people will be open to trying a BP Team, it's just a bit intimidating since they are hard to pull off in this hyper-offensive metagame, so a guide that breaks it down is perfect for this.
Also, rofl @ Spinda.
Awesome.
It is extremely useful to have a Substitute up often, but there are a few times that you have to be careful with that. The best example that I can think of is this: Say I have a Scizor out and they have Garchomp. I use Substitute, and they switch to Skarmory. Putting the Substitue up actually allowed my chain to be phazed and me to lose all of my boosts in the process. As a general reccommedation it is fine, but should I highlight on some times it might be better to predict and Baton Pass out instead? In the situation I mentioned, if I think Garchomp is going to switch, it would be better to BP out immedetly, and if they switch to Skarm like they did in the example, I could go to Smeragle. Spore, Sub, Ingrain and I'm set. What does everybody think?
Chains is plural, so it should be have, not has.
Did you mean "Access to Taunt is what differentiates"?
Speed and Attack need capitalization.
Somewhat funny-sounding phrasing, would sound better as "It can fit any role you need it to, and should be used if available".Mew said:
Needs a period at the end.
Ground needs to be capitalized.
Taunt could probably use a mention in the list of things that can screw up a Baton Pass team, since it not only prevents you from passing for several turns but could also completely incapacitate a Pokemon without a regular attacking move.
Your absolutely correct about the Substitute thing, I only meant this AFTER you have Ingrain up.
Going by that, shouldn't any apostrophy amalgamed words (e.g. "aren't") be changed to there full versions? (e.g. "are not").
Cheers for the guide, rather intruiging and well written, kept me interested.
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
"Shitty" and condensed words aren't on the same level. "Shitty" is vulgar; contractions aren't.
Great guide. After reading that, I'm considering getting me an ingrain Smeargle.
I've been playing around with an experimental Drifblim set recently.
Drifblim@citrus berry
Timid
Unburden
Stockpile/hypnosis
Thunderbolt
substitute
Not sure about Evs yet...It does need a good balance of speed and defense.
So the idea behind this is to pass fully intact subs to something like Umbreon. Switch in against a Pokemon who you expect to switch out and use cosmic power on the switch. Next turn, use substitute. Even if Drifblim has only 1 HP left from the attack, it can still make a sub because of the sitrus berry. It then becomes faster than the opponent due to unburden, and passes a fully intact sub on the next turn.
Of course, taunters are an issue...
I've been playing around with an experimental Drifblim set recently.
Drifblim@citrus berry
Timid
Unburden
Stockpile/hypnosis
Thunderbolt
substitute
Not sure about Evs yet...It does need a good balance of speed and defense.
So the idea behind this is to pass fully intact subs to something like Umbreon. Switch in against a Pokemon who you expect to switch out and use cosmic power on the switch. Next turn, use substitute. Even if Drifblim has only 1 HP left from the attack, it can still make a sub because of the sitrus berry. It then becomes faster than the opponent due to unburden, and passes a fully intact sub on the next turn.
Of course, taunters are an issue...
whoa, I've actually tested this exact set with similar expectations and...... they failed me. Drifblim would be much better if you could stockpile 6 instead of 3; with that being said, its not a horrible option, but in a team where speed is a matter of essence, I'd rather just CM or Iron Defense up and pass on. He still can function as your primary CMer however
"A Baton Pass chain still get victories." doesn't make sense, so add can to the sentence. "A Baton Pass chain can still get victories."
"Driftblim" should say as "Drifblim".
"Smeragle" should say "Smeargle"
"explaination" should say "explanation"
"Substitue" should say "Substitute"
Edited. Thanks. I think this is getting closer to a final draft :)
Also, I have found people on Shoddy using Baton Pass teams, and they found this guide helpful. It is good to see that people are reading the guide, even if they are beating me with the team they make as a result =/
Also, I have found people on Shoddy using Baton Pass teams, and they found this guide helpful. It is good to see that people are reading the guide, even if they are beating me with the team they make as a result =/
You completely forgot about ledian. With 252 Hp and 252 Sp def EV's its a 3hko against an Hp ice gengar. It can pass agility, swords dance and can abuse encore to get that set up. Encore is devastating when paired with baton pass.
With a focus sash to cover your ass against physical hits, you'd be in business to pass at least an agility for sure.
With a focus sash to cover your ass against physical hits, you'd be in business to pass at least an agility for sure.
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
What Gengar uses HP Ice instead of Thunderbolt against Ledian? Note that I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for potential trolling.
I didn't forget per se, I just didn't put the passers that didn't have any potential in my eyes. Encore does nothing if its defenses are shit, and yeah Gengar uses Thunderbolt. Stealth Rock is also a huge issue. Thanks for reminding me that I should add a few more passers, but I doubt Ledian will be one of them.
My friend used ledian as a lead with great success. Let me remind you that ledians special defense is 110 base with 55 HP base. Not the worst, ties with snorlax on special defense at least. The focus sash would obviously be to cover hits from the physical end.
He's kind of a one time use deal, but most of the time will get the job done since alot of people just try to set up on him cause he's such a joke, and he can often encore stat ups or stealth rocks. Just throwing it out there, no trolling intended.
He's kind of a one time use deal, but most of the time will get the job done since alot of people just try to set up on him cause he's such a joke, and he can often encore stat ups or stealth rocks. Just throwing it out there, no trolling intended.
It might tie with Snorlax in one stat, but the 55 base HP makes that extra special defense almost useless. It seems like there are plenty of Pokemon that can do silimar things, but have better defensive stats and take alot less from Stealth Rock (Togekiss for example). If he wasn't 4x weak to Rock, I would say maybe, but that really throws him into a category of those who learn Baton Pass, but shouldn't be mentioned on the list.
eh I do have one question about it: You never really define exactly what a Baton Pass team is. I would really like to see a definition showing exactly what one is.
Maybe something along the lines of "a team that relies on utilizing 4-6 Baton Pass users to pass stat boosts to 1-3 recipients"
You can probably word it better than me but I do think it needs to be included =/
Maybe something along the lines of "a team that relies on utilizing 4-6 Baton Pass users to pass stat boosts to 1-3 recipients"
You can probably word it better than me but I do think it needs to be included =/