[on site] The Process of PID and IV Creation of Non-Bred Pokemon

[X-Act]

I've added a Part 2 to this article: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45230

 

[Peanut-Lover]

I'm sorry, I hope this is a good place to post this...

So, based on my IVs and a few other things, I can determine whether my machop, upon evolution to machamp (after being transferred from RuSa) will have no guard?

This means those that have abilities like pick up will turn into something more useful or not (I'm looking at Ziggy)?

 

[X-Act]

Yes, that's correct. Basically, a Pokemon having an even PID will have Ability 0 upon evolution, while one having an odd PID will have Ability 1 upon evolution.

Thus, if a Pokemon has only one ability in RSFRLGE and two different abilities in DP, it will change its ability to the new one if transferred in DP and evolved if its PID is odd.

 

[Syberia]

You can determine which ability your Machop will evolve into based on its PID, but if it was bred, you will not be able to calculate that based on its IVs. In fact, even if it was caught in the wild, you'd have a tough time doing so, because most IV spreads produce more than one PID.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Question: Can I have a shiny pokémon with 00000 as its Secret ID?

 

[hrc969]

Question: Can I have a shiny pokémon with 00000 as its Secret ID?

It is possible for pokemon with Secret ID = 00000 to be shiny. They just have to have a PID and TID such that (TID xor SID xor HID xor LID) < 8

LID and HID are as in X-Act's article on IV generation.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Yes, but does the formulla allow the SID to be 00000 and yet, return a shiny pokémon?

 

[hrc969]

Yes, but does the formulla allow the SID to be 00000 and yet, return a shiny pokémon?

Maybe I should write it like this: It IS possible for pokemon with Secret ID = 00000 to be shiny.

Given your TID and an SID = 00000 you just need to find the right PID.

 

[X-Act]

For every Trainer ID and Secret ID you can think of, the game would allow shiny Pokemon.

 

[yamipoli]

I believe goldursaring made a post on GameFAQs that gave some insight on the Colosseum/XD RNG in an explanation of why shinies are more rare in the GCN games than on handhelds. I forget the exact content of the post, but I recall something like four numbers are generated at the beginning that affect IV spreads or something to that effect. Perhaps PMing goldursaring will shed some light on the subject? I don't know the full extent of his knowledge on the matter though, so I don't know if he knows much beyond that.

yes, I explained it to him like this:

From what is known about col/XD pokemon is that they are based on numbers generated on the file (it DOES NOT restart apon making a new game, you will have to erase the file from the gamecube menu in order to get a new number set), plus a strange RNG. It also xors one pair of your numbers by a number too high to produce a shiny pokemon, meaning that for some people, they will never get a shiny that is produced by that number!

On the note of the unknown, I believe other than what's already mentioned, Wondercards in D/P supposedly have a different RNG than what D/P uses for most Pokémon. I remember Tangerine mentioned in an old debate thread of the legality of Wondercards that he knew people looking into the algorithm, but I don't know what's become of that. Wondercards deserve to be looked at, seeing as how Darkrai and Manaphy (though both have been available at events) can be obtained from the upcoming Pokémon Ranger game.

Wondercard is being looked at... We already know that it cannot produce shiny pokemon (and the reverse GTS server code also supports this).

My Pokémon Ranch probably uses a different RNG, but that's pretty "lol" anyway.

It uses the same as wondercard generation. Of course, only mew and phione have wild PIDs.

Yes, but does the formulla allow the SID to be 00000 and yet, return a shiny pokémon?

It does, but the game (well at least in 3rd gen) will reject a generated ID of 00000 and produce another one until satisfactory.

 

[Arseus]

yes, I explained it to him like this:

From what is known about col/XD pokemon is that they are based on numbers generated on the file (it DOES NOT restart apon making a new game, you will have to erase the file from the gamecube menu in order to get a new number set), plus a strange RNG. It also xors one pair of your numbers by a number too high to produce a shiny pokemon, meaning that for some people, they will never get a shiny that is produced by that number!

Wondercard is being looked at... We already know that it cannot produce shiny pokemon (and the reverse GTS server code also supports this).


It uses the same as wondercard generation. Of course, only mew and phione have wild PIDs.

Yes, I found goldursaring's post and quoted it in loadingNOW's topic just today :) I did not know about exactly how the "strain" was on shinies, but I guess I do now. Not that it was a large concern for me anyway.

Interesting My Pokémon Ranch uses the same generation as Wondercards. Also interesting that we know for sure they cannot be shiny now. I guess all there really is to do now is to wait for more information on this stuff.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Hmm, interesting. So, I may conclude not only Wondercard (the 4th Gen Event pokémon), but also things like 10 ANIV Celebi (3th Gen Event Pokémon) can't be shiny, even if the algorithm for them is different?

 

[hrc969]

Wondercard is being looked at... We already know that it cannot produce shiny pokemon (and the reverse GTS server code also supports this).

Hi, everyone, the mystery gift pokemon generation is done, here is and article about the results: http://db.pokesav.org/main/?q=11-29-08-Mystery-Gift-PKMN-Cannot-Be-Shiny

also some Notable Breakpoints were posted in tsanth's thread: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=925602&topic=40532445 (go to the last page)

It uses the same as wondercard generation. Of course, only mew and phione have wild PIDs.

How do you know it uses the same algorithm?
Sorry, that I ask, but it seems you were wrong about a few things having to do with the mystery gift algorithm.

 

[Syberia]

So, basically, those flawless HP Fire Skymins out there are "legit." :P

And totally off topic, Regigigas can be shiny if you catch it in Platinum.

 

[Arseus]

So, unless I am mistaken, the only algorithm(s?) left to crack in the 3rd/4th generations would be Colosseum/XD then? This is something to look into in my opinion, seeing as how Colosseum remains the best way to catch the legendary beasts after all these years. To be able to weed out the illegitimate ones would be great, even if Pokeguy does have a borderline monopoly on GCN Pokèmon. It would also help with soft resetting, as I have a gut feeling that, when combined with yamipoli's short explanation at the top of the page, that the GCN games can produce repetitive results a la Emerald.

 

[MetalMario]

That's some really cool info you've got there!

It would be nice to know how Synchronize calculations are done, and if they throw off the list of legitimate PIDs from your three Methods.

Also, even if they can't yet be used to verify legitimacy, it would be nice to know the formulas for stat generation with breeding. (with and without Everstone) This would help me a lot with shiny statistics.

 

[X-Act]

I've updated the article slightly.

mingot yesterday told me that what the article stated as being Method 3 of creating a Pokemon worked incorrectly in the IVtoPID applet, and said that there was a fourth method that corresponded to the incorrect method in the applet. I thus added Method 4 in the article and fixed the applet accordingly so that what it previously outputted as Method 3, it now outputs as Method 4 and implemented the search for the real Method 3.