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On the Offensive

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by TomX159, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. TomX159


    May 1, 2012
    Getting tired of 5th Gen, or The Weather Channel as I like to call it…
    Anyways I’ve been hitting up 4th Gen lately and decided to be a little bit more aggressive with an offensive team and it’s been an absolute blast to play with.

    At a Glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    Here’s the Synergy Chart just to show a general idea on the team’s type weaknesses:


    As you can see, Fire pokes can be a bit of a hassle. Ghosts are kept in line by Scarf Starmie, Gengar, and priority moves from both Metagross and Mamoswine. I put my Fire countering methods at the end of the RMT so that I can dive right into the meat and potatoes of the team. ***

    In Depth:

    Metagross @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 44 SDef / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Bullet Punch
    - Earthquake

    If you’ve read my 4th Gen RMT I made almost 2 months ago you’ll know why this is my go-to lead poke. The EV spread is to take Lead Azelf's Fire Blast while still having enough speed to threaten other Metagross leads with a 2KHO from Earthquake. On Swampert leads I will happily trade Stealth Rocks because my next switch in on him is Gyarados to Taunt the Roar and Waterfall the switch-in (I hate DD’ing up too early and then having to switch immediately). If a lead threatens me like Machamp, Azelf, or Roserade, I immediately go on the offensive. A combination of MM+BP (Atk raise plz? :D) or EQ+BP will take these leads out while Lum saves me from DynamicPunch's confusion and Roserade's SleepPowder. Opposing Metagrosses are hit by a faster EQ and I can just set up SR on their switch out after they see I can 2HKO them. Most people switch in Rotom on me when they see EQ and think they have me. However, I stay in to see if they want to Trick me something or want to Wil-O-Wisp and burn my Lum Berry. If they Trick me, it doesn’t really cripple Metagross too much. If they decide to WoW I just go to Roserade, Sleep Powder, Toxic Spikes…you know the drill. Late game Bullet Punch can clean up the shop on just about any poke that doesn’t resist it and hopefully a Mash raise aids in the destruction.

    Roserade (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Leaf Storm
    - Rest

    Even though this is an offensive team, it needed a little bit of assistance from somewhere. That being said, Roserade helps this team out sooo much. She can take just about any special hit besides a powerful STAB Fire move and absorb TSpikes at the same time, and to top it off she can sleep things on the next switch. Toxic Spikes helps the team sweep through late game while the Rest/Natural Cure combo keeps Roserade alive to keep put more things to sleep or set up more TSpikes if they’ve been spun away. Leaf Storm is there just for sheer damage potential. Since I don’t run any SpAtk EV’s I was really hesitant to put on Giga Drain especially with only 60 Base Power this Generation.

    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge

    Bulky Gyarados is truly a monster. This guy is immensely slow, but all he’s meant to do is Intimidate and hit things on the switch-in. Taunt is there to stop walls from setting up and Dragon Dance is for a free boost late game after opposing sweepers are taken care of. Waterfall is Gyara's powerful STAB move that hits a lot of things hard, while Stone Edge is there for coverage/predicted switches. This is my only SR weak poke, but I didn’t want to put Rapid Spin on Starmie because I found Trick more beneficial. Leftovers are ideal as I can keep on switching in and check physical threats with Intimidate.

    Mamoswine (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Superpower
    - Stone Edge

    CB Mamoswine packs crazy amounts of power. Good predictions can make this guy a real pain for the opponent, but he’s mostly a hit-and-run guy until late game (Ice Shard ALL the things!). The only thing that I hate about Mamo is that he thinks it’s funny to miss half of his Stone Edges. Earthquake eats things up and will keeps Defensive Jirachi in line. Stone Edge like always is a great coverage move that has a chance to crit a wall on the switch-in. Superpower is there for all the bulky Normal types that everyone loves to hate. Ice Shard to finish off weak walls/sweepers and does a lot to anything that doesn’t resist it.

    Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    Here’s the Gengar I’m most comfortable with running the ever so effective Sub/Split set. With a Substitute up it’s almost guaranteed to take a chunk out of something. Sub + Life Orb + Pain Split is a fantastic combination to keep Gengar going. Shadow Ball is the main STAB move that packs a very powerful punch while Focus Blast rounds out for coverage against many threats for super effective damage. Gengar isn’t really meant to sweep, it’s meant to force switches to rack of some of that SR and TSpikes damage that Mamoswine, Starmie, and Gyarados love while at the same time punching holes in opposing walls.

    Starmie @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick
    - Surf

    Starmie is an excellent Choice Scarf abuser. It’s naturally fast, so many people don’t think of it to be Scarfed the first time they see it. Even after a few hits they might not even know it. Ice Beam is really good for coverage for the dragons that like to DD up as I switch Starmie in. If it’s their first encounter with Starmie in the match they stay in 99% of the time and try to KO but end up getting a faster Ice Beam in their face. For DD’ing Gyarados, I’ll do the same thing, but Surf instead of Thunderbolt in case they have an Electrivire. If they stay in then I can go to my own Gyarados or some fodder and bring Starmie back in. Surf is the nice STAB water move that I'm not afraid to throw around. I usually don't take chances early game with Fire types while Starmie is in because I desperately need them gone. While it may be obvious that they will switch their Fire type out in the first encounter, I don't like to use another coverage move as it tells my opponent he/she needs to be careful of his/her switches. In short, making the obvious plays early can lure the opponent into a false sense of security, whereas overpredicting early can backfire on me later in the match. The last move, Trick, comes in handy a lot as it cripples walls making them easier to sweep through. However, I usually don't use Trick unless I absolutely need to. Giving up my Choice Scarf early in the game is not a good idea so I like to save it until mid-late game where I can score it on something when I know that Starmie outspeeds everything left.​

    *** (Continued from the Synergy Chart at the top) *** Well here’s how I deal with the main Fire abusers in the OU metagame:

    Infernape: Gyarados is the best counter to this thing. I also have Starmie as back-up.

    Heatran: Offensive Heatran is by far the most annoying poke to this team. Any death fodder is usually my first switch in while Starmie comes in for leads. After that it depends on what item it has. Any choice item is the most ideal as I can work my way around it. If it’s locked into anything but a fire move or Earth Power then Roserade can come in relatively safely to put it to sleep. If it’s Life Orb’d I just switch around a bit until it’s low enough that Starmie can kill it with Surf (it does 76%-90% with Timid, but since Starmie is scarfed I’ve been thinking of changing it to Modest for 83%-99% damage on Heatran).

    Zapdos: Heat Wave on Zapdos is pretty annoying but the combination of Ice Beam from Starmie and Mamoswine’s CB Ice Shard do the trick very nicely. If need be Roserade takes less than half from non-offensive Zapdos’ Heat Wave and can put it to sleep (They usually don’t put up a Substitute because a BBQ'd Roserade is usually too tempting).

    Jirachi: Rachi’s Fire Punch is laughed at by Gyarados and it can fire off some Waterfalls back at it if it doesn’t run multiple elemental punches. Metagross doesn’t even mind taking one and KO’s with Earthquake.

    Flygon/Dragonite: Flygon won’t get past Gyarados early game regardless if it uses Fire Blast or any other move besides Stone Edge (Thunderpunch? Lol). Scarf Starmie handles a Fire Punch/Flamethrower/Fire Blast from both. I can always go into Mamoswine for the revenge kill too.

    Celebi/Shaymin: Non-STAB HP Fires are brushed off by Starmie. Starmie can do lots of damage with Ice Beam if they’re weakened a bit from SR/Toxic Spikes. Gengar can take care of Celebi on a free switch-in.

    If you took the time out to read this I would like to thank you! It’s not much of a read but hopefully there’s enough there to draw out whatever poke/sets would give this team trouble.
  2. Smiles


    Oct 18, 2010
    I see no one posted anything, so i will.
    Honestly, i havent played in over 2 years cause of 5th gen. Fuck me, right?

    this is probably just me, but here are some moves i noticed: meteor mash, sleep powder, leaf storm, stone edge twice, and focus blast. those are all low acc moves, which can decrease your consistency and dependability on a certain strategy. i personally use at most 3 moves withunder perfect accuracy on a team, which is obviously just my paranoia. good for you for not using hydro pump on starmie.

    Anyway, the first threat that comes to mind that u havent really addressed is Rotom-h scarfed. it has a KOing move to every one of your pokemon, which i didnt notice at first but is a bit overwhelming. sure u can guess around it, but rotom can switch in every once in a while and cause a lot of damage if it uses a neutral or se move.

    another threat is pursuit in the form of ttar or weavile. if u predict wrong, you could easily lose gengar and/or starmie, your only special attackers (roserade doesnt count). in fact, weavile threatens 4/6 of your team, while tyranitar threatens 3/6, somewhat.

    the other threat, which u already pointed out, is fire types and fire type moves.

    starmie also could cause trouble, being able to hit 4/6 pokemon se, potentially 5/6 if it decides to use psychic (idk why).

    the first fix that comes to mind is tyranitar, and almost any set works, although preferably choiced. although it would help, ttar doesnt cover all of these threats perfectly. sometimes i like to have a mixed infernape sitting around my teams with no one purpose, but it can deal massive damage and break walls effectively. they both resist fire and ttar is a great heatran counter, as sandstorm raises its sp def.


    i like your team, but it was a little more difficult giving an analysis without a team building process in ur post. most people dont include it, but i always like to. it makes for a better read and understanding how the team works becomes easier. its easier to look at the synergy and thought process for why and how this team works, and which threats u were trying to cover, etc.

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