Gen 3 One of my more successful teams

[Ancien Régime]

The goal of this team is simple - dent stuff until I can set up a sweep with DDMence. Suprisingly bulky despite it being offensively-oriented.

Celebi @ Leftovers ** TakamachiNanoha
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Swords Dance

The linchpin of my team. Passes Swords Dances to the rest of my team, scouts for Skarmory switchins, supports with Leech Seed. 300 speed to beat non +speed Base 100s.

Magneton @ Leftovers ** Nakajima Subaru
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 124 HP / 24 Def / 184 Spd / 176 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Reflect
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt

Traps Skarmory. Considering HP Fire for other Magnetons/Forretress (which may carrry EQ). Reflect for support.

Salamence (M) @ Leftovers ** Fate Testarossa
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 212 Atk / 136 Spd / 160 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Rock Slide

I love this spread.

By investing 160 Special Defense EVs, Salamence is able to always survive a non-STAB Ice Beam coming from a special attack of less than 240. Of course, most bulky waters run far less than that. Furthermore, it will always survive a Hidden Power Ice coming from a special attack stat of less than 325. Finally, it will always survive an Ice Punch from a special attack of under 301.

Up to a certain point, I can add a few more SDef EVs to survive a little more, but I don't want to overdo it. I don't bring this out until it's safe. This is my endgame sweeper.

Metagross @ Choice Band ** Yagami Hayate
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Rock Slide

SD recipient. Smashes things, explodes when it's weak. Really there to clear the way for Mence.

Snorlax (M) @ Choice Band ** Nakajima Ginga
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 16 Spd / 180 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Return
- Shadow Ball

CBer and SD recipient, as well as special wall. Requires prediction of course, but very underrated.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers ** Teana Lanstar
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Restalker/Meta/Mence/Tar counter.

 

[Oxypad]

216 Attack EVs on Adamant Salamence. Get that bonus point!

That's what jumped out at me. Really... just take 4 from Special Defense. With Dragon Dance, it's worth it more to have Attack invested. And maybe think about moving 20 EVs into HP for optimal Leftovers recovery. Not to take away from your whole "I love this spread," but as you point out - most bulky Waters don't use that much Special Attack. I don't know about HP Ice and Ice Punch users, but the basics that I pointed out are what are important.

O and I think 5/6 ground bound is too much. A bunch of people might say Celebi leading isn't great either - I'm ambivalent. Any team with Celebi passing to Magneton must be fun though.

 

[Ancien Régime]

Isn't surviving Zapdos HP Ice (oh btw people realized that Swampert really can't do anything to Calm Zapdos anyway) important too? And it also has a good chance of surviving Raikou HP Ice as well.

 

[Time Phantom]

Your team is awesome but Salamence...

Salamence (M) @ Leftovers ** Fate Testarossa
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 212 Atk / 136 Spd / 160 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Rock Slide

First of all, Dragon Dance is fine and HP Flying is good too but EQ and Rock Slide together on Salamence especially when you have Meta with EQ and Rock Slide and Snore with EQ, Swampert with EQ, you need a Salamence that looks something like this:

Salamence (M) @ Leftovers ** Fate Testarossa
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 212 Atk / 136 Spd / 160 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Dragon Claw

But not trying to pop bubbles

 

[dekzeh]

I laugh at some rates here.

Anyway, seems like a solid team, I would just consider making Snorlax a Restalker and using Protect on Pert instead. It would make your life easier against a lot of things, (TB, HP Grass, Drill Peck, TWave Zapdos, for example, and even Gengar), with 350Atk if you decide to go Adamant, it still packs quite a punch, even more if you pass it a SD.

Just watch out for Hera, since you probably don't want to send Mence early game and it can switch safely vs Celebi and Pert.

 

[Ancien Régime]

Eh

depends.

I don't mind denting Pert with a +2 HP Fly then switching out. Hera is a big problem once Mence is dead though.

 

[Umby]

With Celebi passing, I usually prefer Agility on Metagross. I'd probably try Gyarados over Salamence as well, so sponging Swampert doesn't become as much of an issue.

 

[NC]

With some slight changes in movesets and EV spreads, this is almost the exact team as my favorite one I used in netbattle for a long time. Here are some changes I would make (or at least remember I used on my team).

On celebi, I never found leech seed to be very useful/effective on this kid of set and always ran either shadow ball or HP fighting over it. Those are incredibly useful for gengar or tyranitar respectively and good for general damage dealing. Since the team is meant to be relatively fast paced, leech seed won't benefit you much in the long run.

On magneton I agree that you should use hidden power fire, beating other magneton's is worth it. Also, I never found reflect to be useful on magneton, although that move is somewhat filler. Metal sound could be an option. Also your EVs are messed up. Make it modest and give defense the same stat point you have in defense now, and you will have more EVs for special attack. I also suggest more speed if you run HP fire.

I like your salamence EV spread, I never used anything like that. Salamence could be a good option as a lead too, but CBmence is usually better at that.

For metagross I think agiligross would be better for the kind of team you are using, since choice band somewhat wastes the SD boost when the opponent brings in a counter to your specific attack. Metagross can be a sweeping threat too, you don't just need to rely on mence.

With snorlax, I agree with Dekzah that a sleep talker would be best for this team. It can help a lot with status's (obviously). Go with shadow ball if you run hp fighting on celebi and earthquake if you run shadow ball. I think passing SDs to choice bander is somewhat of a waste, because you are easily countered after you attack once and it adds unecessary prediction requirements.

The one change I would make in pokemon is wish/protect/surf/ice beam(toxic) vaporeon over swampert. Wish support helps a ton on this team to give you extra chances to sweep and vaporeon counters most of the same stuff swampert does, and also beats swampert itself. This could also allow you to use both shadow ball and hp fighting on celebi and drop recover.

Overall it is a great style of team that should work very well.

 

[Ancien Régime]

With Celebi passing, I usually prefer Agility on Metagross. I'd probably try Gyarados over Salamence as well, so sponging Swampert doesn't become as much of an issue.

I've tried that...it just didn't work as well. Meta's just there to get +3 hits in on walls as opposed to being a sweeper.

Leech Seed really helps force switches with Curselax, Blissey and so forth, and really helps in keeping Celebi alive.

I'll consider Vaporeon, but I really need Swampert to hold up against stuff.

3+ STAB Return hurts everything, especially after Skarm is dead. And Restalk slows the pace imo. I thought of Sleep Talk as a "filler move" though.

 

[dekzeh]

I don't think +3 Return hurts Gengar!
Restalk Lax doesn't slow the pace ._.

But hey, it's your team afterall, so if it works for you, then it works
And do not replace Swampert, otherwise you're potentially raped by Dactyl and CBTar.

 

[Umby]

Get's hurt by any general Tar set without Swampert, IMO.

 

[Flash Ketchum]

Can I just ask why you are using Magneton over Magnezone? Im sorry if its a stupid question, I just don't see why you would do that =(

 

[Umby]

Because this is the 3rd gen forum, not the 4th gen.

 

[NC]

Get's hurt by any general Tar set without Swampert, IMO.

Not if you use HP Fighting on Celebi. For boah-type sets, the same can be said for any team without swampert or calm zapdos, but vaporeon/metagross should be able to handle it in a pinch.

 

[TheDuzzMaster]

I used a team like this for a very long time on NB. It's fun playing with a SD Celebi. Here are some suggestions:

Maybe you could use a Earthquake / Rock Slide / HP Bird / Taunt Aerodactyl over Magneton. That thing is just awesome with a +2 attack boost. And with Taunt there is no reason to be affraid voor Skarmory.

Your Celebi really wants an attacking move over Leech Seed. I used Psychic myself but i guess HP Fight would be fine as well.

On Metagross, use Agility over Rock Slide. For this team i would use 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Hp on Metagross. Most important is outspeeding other Metagross since they are a common switch in on Celebi. Remember that Metagross main job is killing your opponent Bulky Water with Explosion to give Salamence / Aerodactyl a free sweep.

As Dekzeh said; Use RestTalk Snorlax and Protect Swampert. Those sets fits this team much better.

 

[Itchni]

A Forretress with HP bug eats your celebi. Jolly sceptile with full SpA Evs will 1hit your sala with HP ice and if they are sub seed will stall the rest of your team to death. This is a very strong team, but my own team could easily beat you. Most teams wont though.

 

[Flash Ketchum]

Because this is the 3rd gen forum, not the 4th gen.

XD sorry.... It was 1 am when I posted that comment, I was probably half asleep and couldn't remember what forum I was in :(.

 

[Ancien Régime]

A Forretress with HP bug eats your celebi. Jolly sceptile with full SpA Evs will 1hit your sala with HP ice and if they are sub seed will stall the rest of your team to death. This is a very strong team, but my own team could easily beat you. Most teams wont though.

my god

guy with 6 posts says hp bug forretress "eats celebi" not even realizing i have fucking magneton

Just watch out for Hera, since you probably don't want to send Mence early game and it can switch safely vs Celebi and Pert.

Hera doesn't like Leech, and obviously Mence is a solid switchin. CB Hera hurts though.

Maybe you could use a Earthquake / Rock Slide / HP Bird / Taunt Aerodactyl over Magneton. That thing is just awesome with a +2 attack boost. And with Taunt there is no reason to be affraid voor Skarmory.

You know, I could give that a try. It'd give me another attacker, and it seems in theory to accomplish the purpose of eliminating Skarm...I dunno how it would impact synergy though.

EDIT: No, it won't work. Even though Aero can stop Skarm, it doesn't stop Skarm from coming in and walling Meta or Mence.

I also don't like Agility on Meta; it's there to dent things, not sweep. Setting up means I'm not denting anything.

 

[Umby]

Itchni's invalid point does bring up a valid issue though - Celebi could use an attack to still be able to do damage to grass types. I myself like Shadow Ball (still hits Gengar and fucks Celebi up).

 

[Ancien Régime]

Maybe DP's sort of trained this into me but I don't like leaving Celebi in on Gengar.

My problem with putting an attack on Celebi is that it's "situational" - Shadow Ball means Tar walls you, HP Fight means Gar/Cel wall you, etc, etc.

I'll consider it though.

 

[Umby]

Maybe DP's sort of trained this into me but I don't like leaving Celebi in on Gengar.

My problem with putting an attack on Celebi is that it's "situational" - Shadow Ball means Tar walls you, HP Fight means Gar/Cel wall you, etc, etc.

I'll consider it though.

That's a general problem with almost any given Pokemon. I think the main focus of consideration lies in the fact that Metagross/Salamence can handle TTar in their own way, which allows more comfort in allowing Celebi to attack with Shadow Ball. If it were any other team, you might have something like Shadow Ball Snorlax to handle Gengar, allowing Celebi to use HP Fighting or Bug.

 

[blasphemy1]

Why would you ever want to pass to a CB pokemon, especially something like Snorlax, who has 3/4 of its moves not affect Gengar, and the other one not affect normals. IMO it seems like a poor choice. Resttalk Snorlax would fit well there as you could heal and still attack, and when you wake up you aren't entirely screwed since you have a large attack stat but now with no confinement.

BTW, your team is walled extremely hard by Swampert, who can even come in on Celebi, Roar you away, and rack up Spikes damage, and you have no spinner. Yes, you do have Magneton with HP Grass, but you will be OHKOed unless you Reflect, making EQ 2HKO. HP Grass only 2HKOs, so unless you Reflect as it switches in(why would it do that when it can switch into everyone else?), then HP Grass twice. Either way, watch out for Spikes, SubSkarm, who when paired with Swampert, completely rapes this team. It Subs as you send in Magnezone, then it Whirlwinds you away, switches out, and now you have a huge problem, Swampert is out there and they know you have Maggy, meaning killing Skarmory is even less likely.

Finally, the same philosophy of Snorlax should apply to Metagross. I know, you like the extra boost, but you need to have the ability to switch moves, as there are plenty of pokes who would love to come in on Metagross, again, you give Swampert a free switch in on Meteor Mash, as well as Skarmory. Suicune can get a free CM in, Milotic can put something to sleep, or Steelix can scout your team with Roar.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Maybe DP's sort of trained this into me but I don't like leaving Celebi in on Gengar.

My problem with putting an attack on Celebi is that it's "situational" - Shadow Ball means Tar walls you, HP Fight means Gar/Cel wall you, etc, etc.

I'll consider it though.

You could also use Psychic as the last attack to handle Gengar and help out with your Heracross problem since you outspeed it. Base 100 SpAtk is a lot more than people give it credit for. Leech Seed doesn't look like its doing much anyways.

 

[Janenmori]

Or it could use an SDed Aerial Ace to take out Hera, and that will do a bit to Gengar's paper def. It would be a nasty surprise to Breloom too.