[DONE] KANTO CLASSIC: Post your results!

[Moody Magikarp]

It's not junk to me. And I'm not ignoring it, I have a lot on my plate in real life... so I'm making due with what I have. I don't have the time to go and breed 'perfect' Mon. I wish I did. Really. But I don't. So a lot of times, 2 to 3 iv mon are the best I can breed.

I get it on the breeding thing, especially with Pokes with low female rates like Lax.

My first attempt at a 5iv mon was Gardevoir, and it was a nightmare. I swear, it felt like it took over 1000 eggs, and I wouldn't have even attempted it had I not lucked into a 4iv Kirlia in one of my Friend Safaris.

I will say though that it does get 100% easier once you get your first 5iv male in that particular egg group, especially if it's field or monster since those enable you to cross breed into so many other egg groups at that point. If you ever get into breeding perfect pokes, I recommend shooting for that.

 

[Omastar68]

What is Gokem typically running? It doesn't have a very good movepool, but it would like to be able to run Stealth Rock, Explosion, Sucker Punch, Stone Edge, and EQ. Which move is most expendable? I'm leaning towards Explosion since it's not STAB or priority, but idk. Also, what EVs? Max HP and Atk with Adamant would make sense, but does it need som Speed for something?

Also, Rock Blast or Stone Edge? Blast is more accurate, breaks sub, and has more PP, but Stone Edge is quite a bit stronger on average and has a higher chance to crit.

 

[NOVED]

What is Gokem typically running? It doesn't have a very good movepool, but it would like to be able to run Stealth Rock, Explosion, Sucker Punch, Stone Edge, and EQ. Which move is most expendable? I'm leaning towards Explosion since it's not STAB or priority, but idk. Also, what EVs? Max HP and Atk with Adamant would make sense, but does it need som Speed for something?

Also, Rock Blast or Stone Edge? Blast is more accurate, breaks sub, and has more PP, but Stone Edge is quite a bit stronger on average and has a higher chance to crit.

I think right now the standard moveset is rocks/eq/stone edge/sucker. I think sucker is the most expendable. Especially since most zams can encore to mess up your sucker and gengars can wisp you. I've been using Explosion on it and it's pretty sweet, picks up some good KOs or just massive damage as a last ditch effort.

Max hp and atk is really fine. Some people on the ladder have been running lots of speed, I think just to win vs other Golems but not entirely sure what they wanna outspeed aside from that(clefable i suppose). I was running 252 speed adamant and the only time it really came in handy was against other golems and vs a bulky magneton once, not sure if most mags are running speed or not rn though.

Im not actually sure which is better between Rock Blast and Stone Edge. Rock blast might be good against Dragonites that manage to get into the match without rocks on the field, or vs Sub zams. I think Stone Edge is a pretty safe option to go with but rock blast is probably close to or just as viable.

 

[Omastar68]

Energy Ball or Shadow Ball for Alakazam? Other moves are Psyshock/ Encore/ Substitute and they work great, but this last slot is kinda tough. I definitely want a coverage move though. Energy Ball is what I'm using currently. It still hits a lot of stuff Shadow Ball is for like Starmie and Slowbro, while also being great for Golem, Rhydon, Onix, Omastar, Kabutops, Seking(actually have seen one, though Psyshock isn't much worse,) and, most importantly, Cloyster. The lack of SE damage vs Gengar doesn't matter since Psyshock destroys it completely.

Shadow Ball lets me do actual damage to Exeggutor, and is a SE hit vs opposing Zam...though that's about it. With the large difference between its two defensive stats I can't see Mr.Mime taking much less from Psyshock. Same goes for Jynx, and neither are common anyways.

 

[Vengeance417]

I think right now the standard moveset is rocks/eq/stone edge/sucker. I think sucker is the most expendable. Especially since most zams can encore to mess up your sucker and gengars can wisp you. I've been using Explosion on it and it's pretty sweet, picks up some good KOs or just massive damage as a last ditch effort.

Max hp and atk is really fine. Some people on the ladder have been running lots of speed, I think just to win vs other Golems but not entirely sure what they wanna outspeed aside from that(clefable i suppose). I was running 252 speed adamant and the only time it really came in handy was against other golems and vs a bulky magneton once, not sure if most mags are running speed or not rn though.

Im not actually sure which is better between Rock Blast and Stone Edge. Rock blast might be good against Dragonites that manage to get into the match without rocks on the field, or vs Sub zams. I think Stone Edge is a pretty safe option to go with but rock blast is probably close to or just as viable.

I don't see why max HP investment on Golem is a thing if most of the time, it's being used as a suicide rocker. Sturdy ensures that you'll live any one hit regardless of how bulky you are and it'll pretty much guarantee rocks unless Taunt. If anything, outspeeding Clefable is one of the most important things a mon in this meta can achieve if it's not only possible but a viable way to go.

 

[NOVED]

I don't see why max HP investment on Golem is a thing if most of the time, it's being used as a suicide rocker. Sturdy ensures that you'll live any one hit regardless of how bulky you are and it'll pretty much guarantee rocks unless Taunt. If anything, outspeeding Clefable is one of the most important things a mon in this meta can achieve if it's not only possible but a viable way to go.

I actually think Golem can be pretty valuable throughout games, not just as a suicide lead. It's one of the best Snorlax switchins in the meta, with an immunity to Fissure to boot. With that in mind, I think it's worth it to consider HP investment. I wouldn't just write this mon off as a suicide lead, seems like wasting it to me. In fact I'd even argue that if you're using Golem as a suicide lead "most of the time", you're using your Golem wrong.

 

[cant say]

It's not junk to me. And I'm not ignoring it, I have a lot on my plate in real life... so I'm making due with what I have. I don't have the time to go and breed 'perfect' Mon. I wish I did. Really. But I don't. So a lot of times, 2 to 3 iv mon are the best I can breed.

I've already shown you where to get a Ditto with all perfect IVs for breeding, which means you can get a 5IV (or 4 if you're lazy) in as little as 15 minutes. Even if you breed for the right nature and perfect IVs in your offensive stat of choice and HP, maybe a defensive stat, it will give you a massive advantage over using a bad nature and bad IVs.

If you want help them feel free to PM me, but anymore "I found this random mon in my PC can I use it?" posts will be deleted because no one will take you seriously. Honest truth.

---

As for Machamp, I know one particular user in this thread who's using Toxic and it is so clutch. Really surprised me when we were having a friendly, and it's tempted me to try and fit it into my team. Poison Jab / Heavy Slam isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO so most Clef can just T Wave and Moonlight on you. Toxic poison really puts pressure on them and hangs a clock over their head. Absolutely trolls the Minimize sets.

 

[Vengeance417]

>on a Venomoth sweep
>been whittled down by Espeed Dragonite
>get fainted by Sucker Punch Gengar

mfw

---------------------------------------------

Shitposting aside, Toxic Machamp actually sounds annoying and fun as hell. It catches Slowbro on the switch and can potentially rack in a huge amount of passive damage when combined with Dynamicpunch's Confusion. It also never misses thanks to No Guard. Definitely gonna try that out.

wow that image is massive

Edit: posted that via mobile, didn't know it was so big 0-o

 

[Omastar68]

Anyone see Tangela in this meta? Ran int one with Infestation/ Synthesis/ Toxic/ Giga Drain. Seemed pretty good. Also, anyone seen Flareon or any of the Eeveelotions running Stored Power? That'd be funny on Jolteon with QuiverPass Venomoth. Interestingly one of my first battles the opponent had a Eevee.

Also, does Dewgong get used any here? Can't decide if it's any good or not. Less bulk than Articuno(and Spe and power,) which also has Sheer Cold, but Thick Fat is a nice ability(you can also do Rest with Raim Dance and Hydration,) and Dewgong has other nice stuff like Encore and Drill Run. It's also the only halfway decent Hail setter thanks to Ice Body, and it could maybe abuse Whirlpool, possibly with Perish Song but idk.

 

[Cringes]

Anyone see Tangela in this meta? Ran int one with Infestation/ Synthesis/ Toxic/ Giga Drain. Seemed pretty good. Also, anyone seen Flareon or any of the Eeveelotions running Stored Power? That'd be funny on Jolteon with QuiverPass Venomoth. Interestingly one of my first battles the opponent had a Eevee.

Also, does Dewgong get used any here? Can't decide if it's any good or not. Less bulk than Articuno(and Spe and power,) which also has Sheer Cold, but Thick Fat is a nice ability(you can also do Rest with Raim Dance and Hydration,) and Dewgong has other nice stuff like Encore and Drill Run. It's also the only halfway decent Hail setter thanks to Ice Body, and it could maybe abuse Whirlpool, possibly with Perish Song but idk.

Haven't really seen either of them. Dewgong has good potential, but it'd need to be used properly. Tangela with no Eviolite sounds risky and interesting, though

Magneton
Magneton is a great mon in this format. Its bulk and access to Analytic OHKOs, or does a lot of damage to most of the major walls or threats, such as Clefable or Slowbro. The bulk of Magneton would allow you to live most hits, aside from most ground attacks, and hit like a truck with a strong stab move. The only things it really struggles with are Golem and HP Ground Jolteon. Have yet to see anything survive once the wrath of Magnet God arrives.

Magnet God (Magneton)
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 8 Def / 252 SpA / 248 SpD
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Energy Ball or Shadow Ball for Alakazam? Other moves are Psyshock/ Encore/ Substitute and they work great, but this last slot is kinda tough. I definitely want a coverage move though. Energy Ball is what I'm using currently. It still hits a lot of stuff Shadow Ball is for like Starmie and Slowbro, while also being great for Golem, Rhydon, Onix, Omastar, Kabutops, Seking(actually have seen one, though Psyshock isn't much worse,) and, most importantly, Cloyster. The lack of SE damage vs Gengar doesn't matter since Psyshock destroys it completely.

Shadow Ball lets me do actual damage to Exeggutor, and is a SE hit vs opposing Zam...though that's about it. With the large difference between its two defensive stats I can't see Mr.Mime taking much less from Psyshock. Same goes for Jynx, and neither are common anyways.

I'd go Energy Ball, unless you don't have a counter for Exeggutor. Although it's not that common from what I've seen, it does pretty much wall this Alakazam

cant say edit: lol welcome to smogon shackul

 

[Omastar68]

Magneton
Magneton is a great mon in this format. Its bulk and access to Analytic OHKOs, or does a lot of damage to most of the major walls or threats, such as Clefable or Slowbro. The bulk of Magneton would allow you to live most hits, aside from most ground attacks, and hit like a truck with a strong stab move. The only things it really struggles with are Golem and HP Ground Jolteon. Have yet to see anything survive once the wrath of Magnet God arrives.

Magnet God (Magneton)
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 8 Def / 252 SpA / 248 SpD
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]

The way EVs work is weird. You'd probably want max HP alongside max SpA(tho oddly something like Chansey is way bulkier all around with a spread of 4 HP/ 252 Def/ 252 SpD than a spread of 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SpD.) Magneton has trouble with a lot of other things, making it hard to use. Aerodactyl takes it out with EQ if Sturdy is broken. DNite fears nothing and breaks it with EQ as well. Machamp will be outspeed and damaged by T-Bolt, but that's not too bad, and Dynamichpunch will do a lot and confuse Magneton. Zapdos isn't threatened by Magneton, particularly SpD variants, and ruins it with Heat Wave. It's not a common sight, but Chansey can whittle you safely with Seismic Toss. I guess that's the main stuff, but it's a lot. There's also the chance some stuff Magneton deals with will be running a really rare move(like Flamethrower Clef, EQ Snorlax, or even Magnet Rise Jolteon) that lets it win.

P.S., you really shouldn't triple post, just edit your comment. I'm not sure if there's a real harm in it, but it is frowned upon to post more than once in a row. And I have decided Energy Ball for Zam. I have Snorlax to deal with opposing Zam(and Energy Ball even has a small chance to 2HKO interestingly,) and I don't care much about Exeggutor.

 

[zero2exe]

I remember seeing a physical Flareon once running Flame Charge and Last resort, it was pretty hilarious seen it taking down half the opponent's team, sadly even with the boost I think it's still either too slow or not strong enough (speacially in this defensive/stalling meta).

 

[Omastar68]

I remember seeing a physical Flareon once running Flame Charge and Last resort, it was pretty hilarious seen it taking down half the opponent's team, sadly even with the boost I think it's still either too slow or not strong enough (speacially in this defensive/stalling meta).

Flareon looks great on paper, but unfortunately it is too slow and physically frail. It could be one or the other and be great, but being both makes it hard to set up a Curse, since you need like three to not have to worry about physical attacks for the most part. It's also hard to abuse that good SpA with Overheat or something since I minus Def or SpD nature is bad, and -Atk is completely unviable. I guess that leaves -Spe, but that messes you up against lots of slower stuff near your base 65 Spe tier like Clef, Nidoqueen, and Machamp. Flareon needs paralysis support to function at its best, as base 130 Atk and STAB Flare Blitz is pretty brutal. It can run lots of other moves like Toxic for Chansey and Slowbro(among others like Zapdos,) Body Slam to spread own paralysis and hit Minimized foes, Baby-Doll-Eyes to do something to things like Aerodactyl and Dugtrio before they OHKO, WoW or Lava Plume, or a Curse set, maybe even with Baton Pass. I feel like Fire Spin and Tickle with Wish could some small use in conjunction with Pursuit Snorlax.

Does Moltres have a place in this meta? It's less specially bulky than Zapdos by a little and is base 90 Spe vs base 100, but it has more Atk and slightly more Def. It doesn't have a whole lot to make it stand out though, and needs to go mixed to capitalize on its higher Atk. A Flame Charge set might work, and Hurricane is a good move. You also use Sky Drop, either with Moltres knowing Toxic/WoW or a teammate having iit.

 

[Raizr]

I have one spot left on my team and I'm not sure what holes to fill or generally what I'm missing, any advice for the last spot in my team?

My current line up is; Dnite, Gengar, Snorlax, Clefable and Machamp with Clef setting Rocks.

 

[DragonWhale]

you might want to put in a psychic type so that you don't get swept by a starmie or alakazam late game when your lax and clef are weakened. It's also a decent option for opposing poison types which sort of give your team trouble like gengar and (the somewhat rare) weezing. Starmie and Eball Alakam are both pretty good options seeing as you're also a little Rhydon weak as well.

 

[cant say]

Yeah I was gonna suggest Slowbro but since you don't have a spinner, bulky Starmie could be cool. I've been using it and it's cool.

 

[Aaron101]

I'm thinking of using a rest talk snorlax to go along with my slowbro, what nature is everyone running on snorlax? I assume adamant for damage output, do careful or impish have any warrant at all over adamant?

 

[MegaSimon]

Wondering what the best ways of dealing with Zapdos are? Have to admit I'm not used to battling, but I was pretty surprised when it could take 2 stone edges from Machamp... Not sure I have much on my time to deal with it... I use Clef - Tentacruel - Machamp - Alakazam - Nidoking - Venomoth

Also wondering what are Cloysters main checks? Machamp with Bullet punch is one, but wondering which pokemon have to be gone before I go on shell smash rampage? :)

Thanks! :)

 

[Omastar68]

Wondering what the best ways of dealing with Zapdos are? Have to admit I'm not used to battling, but I was pretty surprised when it could take 2 stone edges from Machamp... Not sure I have much on my time to deal with it... I use Clef - Tentacruel - Machamp - Alakazam - Nidoking - Venomoth

Also wondering what are Cloysters main checks? Machamp with Bullet punch is one, but wondering which pokemon have to be gone before I go on shell smash rampage? :)

Thanks! :)

I actually feel like Machamp is really good vs Zapdos, and Nodoking can be pretty good against it too, though I think it's 2HKOd by HP Ice so Nidoqueen is better against it. Snorlax can do good vs Zapdos with the right set, but if you try to set up some variants can Roar you(like mine,) and unboosted Body Slam is a 3HKO. Raichu can get a SpA boost and not really fear Heat Wave even with its bulk. There are others too, but they're all largely dependent on the set-physically bulk, specially bulky, max Spe and SpA, etc.

Clef checks Cloyster with Unaware. Zapdos can be a check, though no Spe Zapdos is outspeed and OHKOd by Jolly Cloyster. I think Snorlax is a check. It doesn't take much damage at all from Icicle Spear, so Cloyster is forced to rely on the weaker and less accurate Rock Blast, while Body Slam has a good chance to para and cripple Cloyster completely, and does pretty decent damage after the Shell Smash Def drop. It only prevents you from SSing when it's out against you, but Zam can OHKO with Energy Ball. Despite Cloyster's special bulk, Shadow Ball isn't an OHKO, big reason why I don't use it. Can't think of anything else atm, but I'm sure there's something.

 

[Tox]

Jolteon is pretty decent against Zapdos. You can Baton Pass a Work Up or a Substitute. Volt Switch is great, too.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I've had a lot of fun playing this format on PS, and while I'm not top of the ladder or anything, I have experimented with some cool sets/mons that I encourage everyone here to check out (not sure if anyone has mentioned them already in this thread, but they probably have tho):

Onix
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Explosion
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

[01:02:13] +aniravjain: yeahh i was gonna try using it but i think psynergy.g pointed out that it has the same base attack stat as wurmple

Yes, Onix's Attack stat is beyond unsalvageable, especially compared to Golem's, who hits a lot harder AND at least can use Sucker Punch. So why mess with Onix? Well, two reasons: Speed + Taunt. This guy has a whopping Base 70 Speed stat, thus making it the fastest Pokemon usable in this format with Sturdy and access to Stealth Rock. This deceptively good Speed tier lets it taunt even Adamant Dragonite and keep it from setting up boosts on it, letting you get up rocks safely before exploding. It works surprisingly decently as a lead, and 9 times out of 10, if a Pokemon is slower than Onix, it will despise being Taunted.

Oh and I've also ruined a lot of lead Golems 1v1 with this guy, keeping them from getting Stealth Rock up and forcing them to either switch out or die. If you haven't tried lead Onix, or have disregarded it as a pile of snake-shaped rock turds, I strongly suggest you change up your mindset and give it a shot right now, fam.

Kangaskhan
Ability: Scrappy / Early Bird
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Chip Away
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Fake Out

I could sing praises about this mon all day long if you let me. I tried out Kangaskhan as a faster alternative to Snorlax with readily abusable priority. It basically works exactly how Mega Kangaskhan does in standard BSS, except it only hits once. Fake Out and Sucker Punch is good priority, and with Scrappy, this means you can get past Gengar with less mindgames involved, though Early Bird is good for those obnoxious Sleep abusers in this format. Power-Up Punch lets Kang sort of play like an on-the-go sweeper/wallbreaker, and with such decent bulk and Speed it often will get a couple boosts in before breaking down a couple mons by itself. I ran Body Slam originally, because screw Minimize Clefable, right? Till one day I faced a Cosmic Power Clefable that I just couldn't do anything against except suffer.

Something else to note, apparently Body Slam Kangaskhan is exclusive to Gen 3 move tutor (Fire Red/Leaf Green anyone?) so if you want a move that can still *kinda* mess with Clefable while having decent strength thanks to Normal STAB, Chip Away just might be your best bet in-cartridge. Plus, it gets past any other random mons trying to boost their Defense...Curselax can go suck one amirite? Anyway, I feel like Kangaskhan is a true underrated MVP in this format. She not only puts the team on her back, but she puts it in her pouch...and runs through the enemy team.

Gengar
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Clear Smog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

This one's probably a lot more common but I've only seen offensive Gengars, most bearing Substitute + 3 attacks or something like that. I put this guy onto my team as a bit more of a utility against certain threats my team couldn't handle. It used to be all-out offensive with Will-O-Wisp, but I just went with this set, because A) Clear Smog has no accuracy modifier, meaning it not only will ALWAYS hit Clefable, but it will also deal SE damage against it while ignoring/removing its boosts. Will-O-Wisp burns stuff, obviously, and Taunt allows Gengar to fully embrace a stallbreaking role, keeping Clefable and random other crap from trying to set up on it. This Gengar is also really good against stuff like Chansey and Snorlax, though if you see a Clefable + Snorlax combination, it'd be wiser to preserve Gengar for the former, as Snorlax can still be handled by other things more easily most of the time. Wouldn't want Gengar to run out of steam, ya know?

I dumped all the EVs into HP to help Gengar take hits better, such as Crunch/Pursuit from burned Snorlax. Since I'm not using any real coverage, SpA investment isn't doing much for me, and all the targets that Shadow Ball deals good damage to are hit hard enough without investment, surprisingly.

These are all just some sets I've had fun using, and you might see 'em on Wi-Fi when the actual competition starts, who knows/ In the meantime while there's still a bit before sign-ups begin, give these mons a try!

 

[Demantoid]

Wondering what the best ways of dealing with Zapdos are? Have to admit I'm not used to battling, but I was pretty surprised when it could take 2 stone edges from Machamp... Not sure I have much on my time to deal with it... I use Clef - Tentacruel - Machamp - Alakazam - Nidoking - Venomoth

Also wondering what are Cloysters main checks? Machamp with Bullet punch is one, but wondering which pokemon have to be gone before I go on shell smash rampage? :)

Thanks! :)

In addition to the Cloyster checks Omastar68 mentioned Slowbro takes a hit and can paralyze you but usually has to switch out to have something else take it out.

 

[Snavemada5]

I need a bit of help deciding on the best way to round out my team. I'm fairly new to competitive battling, but the Kanto Classic sounds super fun so I'm determined to go all in.
Here's what I have so far:

Nidoking
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 148 Atk / 108 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
-Poison Jab
-Sucker Punch
-Earth Power
-Thunderbolt

Alakazam
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
-Psyshock
-Substitute
-Energy Ball
-Disable

Clefable
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Moonblast
-Thunder wave
-Heal Bell

Snorlax
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Pursuit
-Body Slam

I'm not sure who to use as a Rapid Spin user... Tentacruel seems a solid choice, but then I feel over-equipped for enemy Clefable, maybe Starmie instead? For the final slot I have no idea. Machamp sounds great, but so does Golem and Slowbro and a host of others. Additionally, should I be using Clefable as my rocks setter? It seems like sort of a waste. I would love some more experienced insight.

 

[zero2exe]

I need a bit of help deciding on the best way to round out my team. I'm fairly new to competitive battling, but the Kanto Classic sounds super fun so I'm determined to go all in.
Here's what I have so far:

Nidoking
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 148 Atk / 108 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
-Poison Jab
-Sucker Punch
-Earth Power
-Thunderbolt

Alakazam
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
-Psyshock
-Substitute
-Energy Ball
-Disable

Clefable
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Moonblast
-Thunder wave
-Heal Bell

Snorlax
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Pursuit
-Body Slam

I'm not sure who to use as a Rapid Spin user... Tentacruel seems a solid choice, but then I feel over-equipped for enemy Clefable, maybe Starmie instead? For the final slot I have no idea. Machamp sounds great, but so does Golem and Slowbro and a host of others. Additionally, should I be using Clefable as my rocks setter? It seems like sort of a waste. I would love some more experienced insight.

You could try Hitmonlee for a rapid spinner which at the same time can counter enemy snorlax (your current team doesn't seem to have a good answer to it yet), rocks resistance and also inmmunity to paralysis through limber are a good plus too.

 

[Jake0743]

Hi, this is my first time participating (or trying to) in an online competition. I have been playing Pokemon for almost a decade though, so I know everything that's going on. I have a question about the Pokemon I am using, their weaknesses, and some suggestions to check common Pokemon (Clefable the Great, etc.) My team so far is a Clefable (of course) with standard Bold and 252 HP and Def, and 4 Spd. It has Moonblast, Stored Power, Calm Mind, and Thunder Wave. Most of the Pokemon I want to end up using have pretty bad speed, so Thunder Wave is a must. My only other Pokemon I've completed so far is a Modest Vaporeon, 252 HP SpAtk and 4 Def. (That's probably going to change because 8 = 1 stat point right?) This Vaporeon has Scald, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, and Wish (luckily I didn't have to chain for Wish because I had a DexNav Pikachu with it.) I think it's good power and coverage, shadow ball is pretty good for the Psychic spam. Wish is great I think for any situation. However, I feel like it still lacks "oomph." I need Stealth Rocks, Taunt and stuff, and I'm not sure which Mons can fit into my team and do the job. I was thinking SR Nidoking, but nobody on the forum that I saw even mentioned this possibility. Weezing maybe? Any critique would be appreciated.