[Online Competition] ~Spooky~ Cup (Halloween 2015)

Theorymon

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So I've been messing around the ladder for a while. Gonna be honest, I haven't really settled down on anything remotely resembling a comfortable team yet. I don't totally mind this, but man I have a feeling my actual cart team is gonna be a rushed mess :P

If there is one thing I can nail to this metagame, its that its all about Speed control. Every team I've seen either has Tailwind, Trick Room, or Rain Dance support, and sometimes a combination of the two (for example, I've seen people run Trick Room on rain teams just to get rid of opposing ones)

Anyways, here are what I'd argue are currently the top 5 threats.

Volcarona

I'd argue this mon is a contender for the biggest threat in the metagame! Bug Buzz smashes Dark-types, it has Heat Wave as a good, powerful spread move, and it has Fiery Dance to hit Aegislash! It's really fast too, which is always nice. It's a bit more versatile than I predicted too, as I've seen more than just the usual Quiver Dancers: Ive seen bulky Rage Powder ones as well, and Choice Scarf Volcarona trying to get the jump on Crobat and Scarf Hydreigon. I think every team needs to have an answer for this thing!

Hydreigon

Oh boy, in a metagame infested with Ghost and Psychic types, having STAB Dark-type attacks is killer, especially when you're as powerful as Hydreigon! Most of the ones I see have Specs or Life Orb, which gives it good attacking power. I actually don't see too much Draco Meteor use: I mostly see them spaming Dark Pulse, and Flash Cannoning annoying Fairy-types like Granbull. Its speed can be a bit annoying, since Volcarona just manages to outspeed it, but it outspeeds prety much every common Ghost-type except Gengar. I've also been seeing rising usage in Scarf Hydreigons, possibly as a countermeasure against the increase in Noivern, and to get the jump on Volcarona.

Aegislash

Yeah I know Aegislash has problems with Volcarona and Hydreigon, but thanks to its massive bulk, I still find it to be pretty useful! Wide Guard can be a god send against Heat Wave and Boomburst, and thanks to Aegislash's massive bulk, it can still smash stuff with Weakness Policy boosted Flash Cannons or Shadow Balls! Just make sure you aren't weak to Volcarona or Hydreigon when using Aegislash, and I think it'll generally do its job. It also happens to work very well on Rain against Exploud!

Exploud

I've been seeing this thing a lot more often, and for good reason: Boomburst is SUPER powerful! The only real resists to it you'll fine are Kabutops, Aegislash, and Lunatone, since most of these run Scrappy! I usually see either Specs or Life Orb, which pack a serious wallop, but I've also seen Choice Scarf as well. Usually, I see this paired with Mr.Mime, because of Trick Room support + Helping Hand and Sound Proof, but I've also seen them with Telepathy Tailwind Noivern, and am currently trying it out with Telepathy Beheyeem.

Crobat

Crobat may seem like the odd one out here, but don't underestimate it: It might just be the best support Pokemon in Spooky Cup! Thanks to Inner Focus, you can't Fake it Out, and its the fastest Pokemon too, so usually the only way of stopping it from setting up Tailwind or a weather is Prankster Taunt (and that doesn't always work since some of them carry Mental Herb). Access to STAB Brave Bird is pretty awesome too, since it allows Crobat to really stick it to Volcarona! It also has Super Fang, which can deal nice general damage, and Taunt to shut down stuff like Aegislash's King Shield. Overall, I see this thing on almost every team so far, it really seems to be the support Pokemon of choice for most people!

Here's just some random Pokemon I wanted to talk about, some I've used, some I haven't!

Noivern

I think this mon might be more of a dark horse than we were expecting. Since its faster than Hydreigon, I've been seeing a ton of Focus Sash ones. Again, they're usually with Exploud, but I've seen Frisk variants as well, which can be handy against stuff like Choice Scarf Hydreigon (who I've been seeing more of). It seems to run a set very similar to the old VGC set, aka Draco Meteor / Tailwind / Superfang / Taunt, with Protect sometimes over one of those moves.

Marowak

This thing is no joke. With Thick Club, it has incredible power, and its super slow too which is great under Trick Room (though I've seen it pull its weight on Tailwind as well)! Bonemerang is also some nice stuff, since its a single target move, meaning more power and you don't hit your teammate! It is pretty frail though, just a warning!

Sableye

A lot of people were hyping Liepard, but Sableye has been a lot nastier in my experience. Sure, its a lot slower, but it also has a better support movepool and an immunity to Fake Out. Most notably, Sableye gets Will-O-Wisp, which is excellent against physical attackers. I also got OWNED by a Gravity Sableye paired with a Hypnosis Crobat, so watch out for that combo! Sableye also gets Quash, which I've found to be a pretty neat support move. Smashing a Noivern to pieces because it has to move last against a Hydreigon feels pretty nice!

Kabutops

This thing is the star of rain teams! Boosted Waterfalls hurt like hell, and being one of the only Pokemon that has STAB Rock Slide is pretty kick ass in doubles, especially with so many Volcarona and Crobat flying around! Believe it or not, I've also seen a few Scarf Kabutops outside of the Rain, and it honestly seems to work pretty well there too, though it's a lot more vulnerable to Aegislash then. Also, I've been seeing them run Aqua Jet. This may sound strange since it's usually got a boost under the rain, but I've found it to be a life saver if someone manages to get Trick Room up, since I've been noticing quite a few Volcarona running Giga Drain!

Basculin

I haven't really seen this thing much. I've mostly been experimenting with an offensive set with Life Orb / Mystic Water, since I wanna abuse that adaptability Aqua Jet / Waterfall. It hasn't been too great to be honest, but I'd like to mess around with it more, especially after hearing about that Soak + Shedinja strategy... Plus on the bright side, I love sniping Volcaronas with Aqua Jet!

Rotom-W

I haven't seen this thing too much, and I'm not quite sure why beyond "Man it really hates Hydreigon". It gets awesome support moves like Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp, and Hydro Pump hurts like hell in the rain! It also resits Waterfall which is nice against Kabutops, and you can Thunderbolt that thing back to hell! It also hits Crobat hard, which is always a plus. This is something whose usage I expect to rise.

Mr Mime

This thing is a really odd Pokemon. I've mostly been seeing Trick Room ones with Soundproof, as a way to check Exploud while supporting their own with Trick Room + Helping Hand. I've also seen a few sash ones, which do similar stuff except they tend to be more offensive. Mr Mime's physical defense really sucks, which is a huge bummer, but that Fairy typing + unique support movepool make it something to consider.

Beheeyem

This is a Trick Roomer I've been messing around with, mainly to use with Marowak. Beheeyem isn't really anything to write home about so far because it's bulk isnt too great, but Telepathy is an excellent ability to have, and 125 base SpA actually lets it pack a wallop! This will be something I need to test more for sure.

Granbull

I've mostly been seeing this on Trick Room teams. It's fairly powerful with Play Rough, has Rock Slide to nail Volcarona and Crobat, and Intimidate gives it some surviability. It's poor Special Defense has been a pretty big problem once Trick Room is up though, since it's been dying quite a bit to Hydreigon Flash Cannons, and Aegislash beats the CRAP outta poor Granbull. I'm not a big fan of it, but its pretty viable.

Tangrowth

I've been seeing more and more of these. I can't really nail a specfic moveset beyond "Rage Powder and sometimes Sleep Powder", but its quite a nice anti rain Pokemon since it beats the crap out of Kabutops. Its special defense does leave something to be desired, but otherwise this thing seems alright. Also, I've seen a few of them with sun support. This can actually be a bit scary if you're using Volcarona, since Tangrowth does get rock moves!

Scolipede

Its all about that Speed Boost! Well ok it also has a nice offensive movepool, with Megahorn owning Hydreigon and Psychic-types, Poison Jab destroying Mr.Mime and Granbull, and having a super fast Rock Slide to hit Volcarona and Crobat with. It doesn't seem to last too long and it isn't very powerful, but Speed Boost and the movepool alone make it worth considering from what I've seen.
 
Well considering there are so many Dark-types, and his STABs don't hit anything meaningful I don't think he's that good at all.. Also, he isn't a top 12 mon in Battle Spot Doubles, and his most common item there is Gengarite, so since he can't even use that his effectiveness is lowered even further.

I think the only reason you'd want to use him is with a Protect + Disable set, at least that would stuff up a bunch of Dark-types from locking out their STAB (especially Specs Hydra!). He can also use Taunt to stop Trick Roomers, leaving Sludge Bomb for offense (or Icy Wind if you want more tech).

----

Speaking of no megas in this, I totally forgot about that while theorymoning a bunch of stuff for this and got excited at the idea of Mega Glalie. If only that thing was allowed, there aren't many Ice resists in this, so a well-timed Explosion would do some serious damage! If it weren't for all the Rock Slide going around I might have tried to make Moody work..
Yeah, I don't see my Gengar making the cut even with the alternate move sets which sucks seeing as I had it perfectly breeded and everything. I'm already looking into rather I should jump on the Aegislash bandwagon or breeding another Ghost type.

The no mega thing is fine with me though except I would have loved to use Mega Mawile to bash opposing fairies and dark types in this tour, but since it keeps opposing Mega Gengs out as well, I can't say I'm complaining too much.
 
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Wow, awesome break down Theorymon. I was at a loss after my first attempt at a trick room team crashed and burned, but after reading your post I have a lot of different things I want to try.

Also, I'm wondering about the viability of Quiver Dance Volcarona and something such as Beeheeyem with Psych Up. Possibly with Coil Arbok as an alternative partner. Probably too slow, but would be amazing if pulled off.

EDIT: Psych Up didn't really work out. Things just died as soon as I tried to spend a turn to use it. However, I am really liking the team I'm using right now.

Inspired by Theorymon, I am running an Exploud/Noivern lead with an Umbreon for Exploud to switch out to, Marowak for TR handling and general beating of faces, Aegislash for Ghosts and Fairies, and on oddball that is working out for me - swords dance Cacturne with Water Absorb. He was originally supposed to counter Kabutops, which had been wrecking me, but while I haven't seen one since adding him, he has been handling himself really nicely anyway, especially against stally teams with Umbreon and Tangrowth and the like.

I hope this team continues to do well, because it's full of favourites of mine I've never had a chance to use and I'm quite excited to start breeding and training them!
 
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cant say

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What does everyone think is the best Trick Roomer here? Mr Mime is the one single setter that isn't outright OHKOed by Specs Hydreigon (Filter can bring Specs Flash Cannon damage down to about 50%!) meaning it can use a Mental Herb to avoid Taunt, but everything else needs a Colbur berry except Dusclops (but everyone knows what he does so he's a Knock Off / Taunt magnet anyway). The biggest problem with Mr Mime though is his physical bulk, he gets destroyed by Scolipede and Crobat...

I guess there's Fake Out support or redirection and stuff but as a non-Doubles guy I'm having a hard time theorymoning how to safely get the Trick Room safely up!

As for others ideas, the guys in the battle spot PS! room last night / earlier today know about all my "shaky" combinations. I originally had an Assurance Sharpedo with Ice Shard + Fient Weavile, and a Scarf Lunatone! Assurance is actually pretty strong and I kinda wanna experiment with it a bit more (need a way of killing Rotom-W) but I haven't used Lunatone in a battle yet, I only like him since he's the only Moonblast user so he can surprise a (non-Scarf) Hydreigon, but I think he'd work better in Trick Room.

The one thing I'm not really enjoying about this meta is that every team so far is Hydra / Volc / Granbull / Crobat / Scolipede / Rotom-W which is making it a little boring. There are quite a few weird Pokemon allowed here so I'm taking my usual approach of trying to find something silly/gimmicky to use so it's at least fun..
 

Theorymon

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What does everyone think is the best Trick Roomer here? Mr Mime is the one single setter that isn't outright OHKOed by Specs Hydreigon (Filter can bring Specs Flash Cannon damage down to about 50%!) meaning it can use a Mental Herb to avoid Taunt, but everything else needs a Colbur berry except Dusclops (but everyone knows what he does so he's a Knock Off / Taunt magnet anyway). The biggest problem with Mr Mime though is his physical bulk, he gets destroyed by Scolipede and Crobat...

I guess there's Fake Out support or redirection and stuff but as a non-Doubles guy I'm having a hard time theorymoning how to safely get the Trick Room safely up!

As for others ideas, the guys in the battle spot PS! room last night / earlier today know about all my "shaky" combinations. I originally had an Assurance Sharpedo with Ice Shard + Fient Weavile, and a Scarf Lunatone! Assurance is actually pretty strong and I kinda wanna experiment with it a bit more (need a way of killing Rotom-W) but I haven't used Lunatone in a battle yet, I only like him since he's the only Moonblast user so he can surprise a (non-Scarf) Hydreigon, but I think he'd work better in Trick Room.

The one thing I'm not really enjoying about this meta is that every team so far is Hydra / Volc / Granbull / Crobat / Scolipede / Rotom-W which is making it a little boring. There are quite a few weird Pokemon allowed here so I'm taking my usual approach of trying to find something silly/gimmicky to use so it's at least fun..
I think what you said here sorta sums up Trick Room's biggest flaw in a nutshell: The Trick Room setters happen to be very weak to Volcarona and Hydreigon most of the time. I actually have been using Volcarona on my Trick Room teams just to make Hydreigon a bit easier to deal with.

Also, I'd agree that Mr Mime and Dusclops are probably the most reliable Trick Roomers around, but even then they aren't perfect. Still, I think Trick Room is deadly enough to bend over backwards to find viable users. I myself am going to be testing out Colbur Berry on Beheyeem soon. Also of note: I tried out Trick Room Malamar. Its... interesting, but that 4x bug weak is a HUGE problem thats hard to get over!

I almost forgot: I'm also considering Gothitelle, since Shadow Tag might alleviate the whole "weak to common threats" problem a bit if you get it in on the right time!
 
After just talking about how Psych Up didn't work for me, I was just wrecked by a team that started with support Murkrow (I forgot about prankster or this may not have gone so terribley) and a Shiftry that used Fake Out, then Explosion. Then, an Anger Point Krookodile and Super Luck Honchkrow. Honchkrow uses Night Slash on Krook, he Rock Slides for 4x damage, next turn Honch Psych Up's the 4x attack and GG.

I doubt it's very consistent as I don't think Night Slash + Super Luck + presumably a crit-boosting item is quite 100%, but still... I'm not sure there's anything that is physically defensive enough to take those hits once it is activated. Not without any Steels in this meta that aren't also weak to Dark.
 
I doubt it's very consistent as I don't think Night Slash + Super Luck + presumably a crit-boosting item is quite 100%, but still...
It is. Critical hits were changed in gen 6. Now at +3 stages the chance for a crit is 100%. But crits do 1.5x damage instead of the previous 2x. (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Critical_hit)

For Quiver Dance Volcarona are you guys using Modest or Timid nature?
I use modest, but I'm also using a crobat, weavile, and scarf galvantula, so I have others for speed. She's supposed to be my power hitter.
 
It is. Critical hits were changed in gen 6. Now at +3 stages the chance for a crit is 100%. But crits do 1.5x damage instead of the previous 2x. (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Critical_hit)
Damn, I knew about the change but I thought it was 4 stages before it was 100%, so you had to use everything possible (all that, plus Focus Energy) to have 100% chance. And crits doing less damage is actually beneficial to this combo... I hope it doesn't get popular :/
 
How good is Exploud? I understand that people use it because of Scrappy Boomburst, but it's speed and SpA are not really high.

What is the preferred item? I'm considering Choice Specs and Choice Scarf.
 
How good is Exploud? I understand that people use it because of Scrappy Boomburst, but it's speed and SpA are not really high.

What is the preferred item? I'm considering Choice Specs and Choice Scarf.
The low Sp. Atk hits harder than it looks; it's a similar effect to Nidoking, Lanturn, or Swampert - staggeringly high base power / SE coverage + medium Sp. Atk.
STAB Boomburt sits at 157 base power per target (remember, your ally counts as a target, just like EQ) and thanks to Scrappy, there are extemely few resistances. Buff this with Modest and max Sp. Atk + LO/Specs and you've got a rather high damage potential despite 91 Base Sp. Atk.
Scarf is used when you want it to function with minimum support; if you aren't dominating the Speed chart with Tailwind and such, run Scarf. Or, if you're REALLY anal about Tailwind vs Tailwind matches, it keeps you in the lead.
Specs, much more devastating, but needs consistent Speed advantage. Meowstic's T-Wave, Tailwind Crobat, whatevs.
LO, it has almost no need to click something other than Boomburst, but does allow Protect and the flexibility to nail your few resists (in case your team doesn't handle them well enough). Thunderbolt for Kabutops, Fire Blast for Aegislash (or Shadow Ball, if you're a rain team kind of guy) and Mawile, lets be serious Lunatone isn't going to be a problem anyway.

imho, Speed Control + LO Boomburst / Protect / Fire Blast / Thunderbolt is the best *overall* option if you want it. Telepathy Noivern gives you Tailwind and other pretty good supports, Telepathy Beheeyem + Exploud for a TR approach, Soundproof Mr. Mime gives Icy Wind, Fake Out, Quick/Wide Guard, Trick Room, and T-Wave support.
 
How good is Exploud? I understand that people use it because of Scrappy Boomburst, but it's speed and SpA are not really high.

What is the preferred item? I'm considering Choice Specs and Choice Scarf.
It hits *very* hard. In most circumstances I find it wipes out at least one of the opposing Pokemon in one hit, usually leaving the other in the red unless they happen to be a sp. defensively oriented Aegislash or similar.

I had been using Tailwind Noivern with Choice Specs Exploud, but I've switched to TR Mr. Mime and LO Exploud because I find the ability to change moves works much better with my team. Being locked into Boomburst when your Telepathy/Soundproof partner dies can really suck. Also, the turn 1 Protect and TR, then turn 2 HH and Boomburst combo is devastating.
 

Theorymon

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Something interesting I wanna bring up that I've seen a few times: Head Smash Hydreigon. Normally, they're scarfed, and the basic idea is "crush Volcarona and Crobat". It's especially nice against Volcarona since they usually tend to stay in on Hydreigon!
 
Something interesting I wanna bring up that I've seen a few times: Head Smash Hydreigon. Normally, they're scarfed, and the basic idea is "crush Volcarona and Crobat". It's especially nice against Volcarona since they usually tend to stay in on Hydreigon!
yep I've been running that

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Head Smash
- Flash Cannon

Alternatively you can run 140 Atk / 244 SpA / 124 Spe

140 Atk Hydreigon Head Smash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 162-192 (100.6 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/spookycup-281964553
 
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Demantoid

APMS Founder
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Is Head smash better than Rock Slide on Hydreigon ?
Head Smash is preferred especially on Scarf because Rock Slide doesn't get the ko on Volcarona, but you could consider it with life orb.

~FireBlast~ I was considering using an Umbreon with the moveset Foul Play, Helping Hand, Toxic, Moonlight with Leftovers. Snarl and Protect are also good options.
 
~FireBlast~ I was considering using an Umbreon with the moveset Foul Play, Helping Hand, Toxic, Moonlight with Leftovers. Snarl and Protect are also good options.
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 8 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
Toxic, Protect, Snarl, Wish / Moonlight?
@ Leftovers?

Uhm...

8 EVs wastes 4 with a 31 IV at level 50
 
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Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Top Tiering Contributor
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 8 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
Toxic, Protect, Snarl, Wish / Moonlight?
@ Leftovers?

Uhm...

8 EVs wastes 4 with a 31 IV at level 50
I was going to use 252/0-/108/0/148+/0. It survives +1 modest Volcarona's Bug Buzz and avoids the 2hko from modest specs Hydreigon Draco with the rest put in defense.
 
I'm curious, what nature would be the most prefered on Rotom-W in this format I'm leaning towards calm but I see scenarios where bold or modest would work.
 
Does anyone have a full team suggestion by now? I'd like to participate but I really don't know which Pokemon I should pick. But I guess the Scrappy Boomburst Exploud
is cool. What's the exact build for that? I also thought about Hydreigon and Galvantula but I don't know how I should build them.
 

cant say

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I'm curious, what nature would be the most prefered on Rotom-W in this format I'm leaning towards calm but I see scenarios where bold or modest would work.
Rotom-W struggles pretty hard with Hydreigon (Specs OHKOes the 252 / 4 modest spread with Draco Meteor) so for that reason alone I would go calm. Rotom-W doesn't put in that much work for your team offensively here so it's really the only option afaik...

Does anyone have a full team suggestion by now? I'd like to participate but I really don't know which Pokemon I should pick. But I guess the Scrappy Boomburst Exploud
is cool. What's the exact build for that? I also thought about Hydreigon and Galvantula but I don't know how I should build them.
Honestly, just go on PS! and slap together Hydreigon, Volcarona, Scolipede, Crobat, Granbull, and Weavile and see how you go. Those guys are all super good here and the majority of teams look like that anyway, and it'll allow you to test and see what works here, and you can swap stuff out as you go until you have your own team...
 
Honestly, just go on PS! and slap together Hydreigon, Volcarona, Scolipede, Crobat, Granbull, and Weavile and see how you go. Those guys are all super good here and the majority of teams look like that anyway, and it'll allow you to test and see what works here, and you can swap stuff out as you go until you have your own team...
I'm surprised I'm not seeing more Drapion on Showdown. Is it generally outclassed by Scolipede? Scolipede is faster and slightly stronger, but I'm finding Drapion's better defensive bulk, STAB Knock Off useful, and lack of a Fire weakness useful.

What natures are people running on Hydreigon and Volcarona? I've been using max Speed/Sp. Attack Timid for both, since both are popular and winning the speed tie is important, but I'm starting to think that a bulkier Modest version (at least for Quiver Dance Volcarona) may be better.
 

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