here's the thread i am making to start this off (per chaos' request) "As I'm sure some of you may have noticed, we have a BL tier list available in the D/P Tiers Thread. The BL and UU tiers are now open to discussion, which is to say, whether something should be banned from (BL) or allowed in the UU tier. Of course, there are some guidelines that you all would do well to follow: ALL DISCUSSION WILL TAKE PLACE IN THIS THREAD UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. DO NOT CREATE NEW THREADS FOR THE PURPOSE OF TIER DISCUSSION. You must adhere to the stipulation that we are only discussing BL->UU and vice-versa for now; this is not the time nor place to complain that Blissey (or any other Pokémon) is uber, or that Manaphy is not uber. Sorry. You MUST provide solid reasoning backed by competitive battling experience for your opinion on a given Pokémon. Making a statement like "mamoswine should be UU" alone without backing it up is NOT ALLOWED. If you opt not to justify your assertions, your post WILL be deleted and swiftly infracted without warning. Remember that the distinction between UU and BL is based on power alone. Usage is not a factor and therefore should not even be mentioned in an argument for why a Pokémon should be placed in the UU or BL tier. Discussion, as always, will be carried out in a civil manner. If you feel the need to insult your opposition in a debate, then this is not the forum for you. For a few examples of Pokémon I personally think might be worthy of discussion at this stage in D/P to start with (or not, if you're interested in something else): - Mamoswine - Scyther - Ambipom"