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Optical Overload

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Trinitrotoluene, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,216
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    Hey Smogon! It's been a while since I last posted an RMT, and it's time I revealed one of my favorite and most reliable offensive teams. However, before I go on to describe how I formed the team, here's the background of it. It's safe to assume that Genesect is the largest threat in OU. It's the heart of the offensive OU metagame we all love and hate. However, aside from Genesect, you have the various weather inducers and their respective sweepers, such as Ninetales and Venusaur, Politoed and Therian Tornadus, Tyranitar and / or Hippowdon and Stoutland, and Abomasnow and Black Kyurem, to deal with. In addition to those teams, you have the classic Deoxys-D + 5 sweepers and DragMag hyper offense teams to deal with, which leads to my main point: the OU ladder is saturated with offensive teams, leaving little room for stall to thrive. Of course, alexwolf's Defense of the Titans project will eventually prove my premise wrong, so until then, my point stands.

    With that background out of the way, here's how I formed the concept for Optical Overload. Genesect is the largest threat in OU, as noted before. Another equally big sweeper is Rock Polish Sheer Force Landorus. Both of them can sweep on a moment's notice. Now, the two together may seem like poppycock at first, but the core has viability. For one, no offensive or balanced team can withstand an assault from both of them, since the two can beat each other's main checks. In addition, both become incredibly fast after one boost, making Scarfed Pokemon irrelevant in dealing with the two of them, and necessitating the use of at least two priority users to keep them down.

    Also, I think that the team's name deserves a brief explanation. Optical Overload was chosen primarily because of alliterative appeal (another alliteration, gasp), but also because of the principle of overloading, which is a tactic in which multiple sweepers that share checks and counters, with the intent of using one sweeper to weaken those checks and counters to the point where the other can sweep relatively unhindered. It's also a reference to how this team wins most of its games: through brute force and overloading any defenses the opponent might have. With that done, let's get down to the team building process.
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    Genesect and Landorus were the core of this team, and it's fairly obvious that I can't have a team that focuses on the two of them without actually having them, right? With that slightly snide comment aside, the two of them are some of the most powerful and anti-metagame weather-independent sweepers available, so why not go with them? They can beat each other's counters, so that's a bonus.

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    Of course, the only Pokemon that the core of Genesect and Landorus cannot beat are Eviolite Chansey, Blissey, and Regice. Enter the next two members of the team: Terrakion and Keldeo. Both of them have powerful Fighting STAB and great neutral coverage, allowing them to beat the three Pokemon that Landorus and Genesect cannot beat. In addition, the two can pose serious threats to opposing weather teams, with Keldeo terrorizing rain teams, Terrakion sun and sand teams, and both hail.

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    Stealth Rock is a necessity for every team in OU, and this team is no exception. To combat the influx of weather teams, I decided to use Tyranitar, whose access to Sand Stream and Stealth Rock seemed to be beneficial for the rest of the team. Its massive special bulk and access to Dark STAB also gave the team an answer to the Lati twins and Celebi, which posed a slight problem for the team's sweeping core. It also is Keldeo's greatest partner, eliminating the Pokemon that could stop Keldeo's bulldozing cold.

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    Salamence may seem like an odd choice for a team that utilizes Tyranitar, thanks to the use of Sand Stream, which exacerbates its vulnerability to residual damage, but it fills an important slot in the team as a revenge killer and cleaner. It also gives the sweeping core of the team many set-up opportunities, thanks to its 4x weakness to Ice-type moves and 2x weakness to Dragon-type moves. It also kept Genesect in check.

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    The team was wildly successful, but it didn't exactly like facing Gengar and Therian Tornadus, both of which necessitated using Salamence to revenge kill them, forcing it out earlier than I wanted it to come out. This is where the next change comes into play. I asked my friend Nasira for tips, and she mentioned using Specially Defensive Hippowdon over Mamoswine (which I was using then since I wanted something that could best opposing Dragons). This change gave the team a lot more bulk on the physical end, at the cost of a negligible amount of special bulk, which is made up for by not having a Fighting-type weakness to deal with.

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    Rotom-W is an incredible upgrade to Salamence. It can cover so many specially-based threats that it's not even funny. It also covers Mamoswine and certain other threats to the team quite well. Alongside some other changes made, this has made the team much more solid than it was before.
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    Keep the nicks if you're giving this team a spin.
    PHP:
    The Terminal (Genesect) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Download
    EVs
    24 HP 252 SAtk 4 SDef 228 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs
    0 Atk
    Rock Polish
    Flamethrower
    Ice Beam
    Giga Drain

    The Island 
    (Landorus) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs
    68 HP 252 SAtk 188 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs
    2 Atk 30 Def
    Rock Polish
    Earth Power
    Focus Blast
    Hidden Power [Ice]

    Under the Waves (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs
    252 SAtk 4 SDef 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs
    3 Atk 30 Def
    Hydro Pump
    Secret Sword
    Hidden Power [Electric]
    Icy Wind

    Through the Loop 
    (Terrakion) @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs
    4 HP 248 Atk 4 SDef 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    Substitute
    Swords Dance
    Close Combat
    Stone Edge

    Witchcraft 
    (Hippowdon) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs
    252 HP 248 Def 4 SDef 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    Earthquake
    Slack Off
    Stealth Rock
    Whirlwind

    The Fountain 
    (Rotom-W) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs
    248 HP 28 SAtk 228 SDef 4 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs
    0 Atk
    Volt Switch
    Hydro Pump
    Thunder Wave
    Rest
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    Into the maze with your reflection, we enter from a terminal connection...

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    Genesect @ Expert Belt | Download
    Modest | 24 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe | 0 Atk
    Rock Polish | Flamethrower | Ice Beam | Giga Drain


    [BOX]Oh my. Genesect might just be the most broken sweeper in OU. Seriously. It's fast, somewhat bulky, and resistant to most forms of priority, making it a nearly perfect set-up sweeper. There was no question that it was going to be on my team. However, the real question for this team wasn't to use or not to use Genesect, but which Genesect set to use. Don't listen to the majority of OU battlers; Genesect's Scarf set is not its best set. Seriously. It has better business to do than spam U-turn and kill off weakened threats, only to forced out by Heatran and / or made set-up fodder by greedy Magnezone and Magneton. Its stats, movepool, and access to Download lend to it multiple roles, ranging from a mixed stall-breaker, which can break down walls thanks to its excellent offensive stats and movepoll, to an ideal sweeper, one that can clean up house against a weakened team with minimal effort. In the end, I decided to go with a Rock Polish set, which can clean up the mess and create some of its own without even trying.

    The four moves chosen for Genesect are all pretty standard, with the exception of Giga Drain. Rock Polish doubles Genesect's Speed in one turn, making Choice Scarf users and weather sweepers unsuitable choices for dealing with it. Flamethrower is as standard as coverage gets, scoring super-effective hits on the Chlorophyll sweepers and Steel-types that roam the streets of OU. Ice Beam is great on Genesect since it hits Dragon-, Ground-, and Flying-types for super-effective damage, reducing the problems the team has with them. Giga Drain is the only non-standard move that Genesect uses, with most people that use this set favoring Thunderbolt, due to its small increase in power, in comparison to Giga Drain. Giga Drain, while it may be weaker than Thunderbolt, hits most of the same targets super-effectively, in addition to hitting Rotom Wash, Tyranitar, and Gastrodon, while taking some of the damage dealt back in the form of recovered HP. That's worth the small reduction in base power, in my opinion. The EVs grant Genesect a small increase in bulk and a massive increase in power, while allowing it to speed creep Pokemon that hit a Speed stat of 286 and outspeed max Speed +ve nature Venusaur after one Rock Polish. The IVs minimize confusion damage, and Expert Belt was chosen over Life Orb so my opponents won't try to stall and get Life Orb damage to kill it.

    Genesect, as identified by the Prologue, is one of the two late-game sweepers that this team uses. However, its role is not limited to just sweeping, because it can assume a role similar to that of its Expert Belt brethren and shatter walls so another member can sweep. This tends to happen when the team being faced has little in the way of set-up opportunities for Genesect, and plenty of set-up opportunities for another member of the team. In terms of Genesect's set-up opportunities, the team's weaknesses grant Genesect multiple set-up opportunities. For instance, Genesect can come in on the Mamoswine that just KOed my Landorus or Salamence and use it as set-up fodder, allowing it to destroy the opponent's team, all because of my opponent's fear that it was a Scarf set that was going to revenge kill it. Once you get Fire-types out of the way, SJCrew's proclamation that "...unless you have a Fight Gem Breloom in the wings, +1 Rock Polish Genesect WILL win you the game" rings true.[/BOX]
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    Turn my back, the urge is gone; left with no reason, we come undone...

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    Landorus @ Life Orb | Sheer Force
    Modest | 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe | 2 Atk / 30 Def
    Rock Polish | Earth Power | Focus Blast | Hidden Power


    [BOX]If you had told me in the BW1 metagame that Sheer Force Landorus was better than Sand Force Landorus, I would've shaked my head in disbelief and went on my merry way. Allow me to eat my words. Sheer Force Landorus is arguably the next most broken sweeper after Genesect. The power this Pokemon holds behind its attacks is mind-blowing, and that's an understatement. Unlike Genesect, Landorus doesn't need Download to strengthen its attacks, as Sheer Force does quite nicely in that regard. Also unlike Genesect, Landorus can afford to run a Life Orb, since it's immune to most forms of residual damage. This leads to the question about what to run on Landorus, rather than should I run Landorus in the first place. Of course, physical Sand Force Landorus is still pretty good, but its niche has been occupied mostly by Garchomp, Terrakion, and Salamence, which either boast better Attack, Speed, abilities, or maybe even a combination of all three. In that same vein, its niche as the best Scarfer in OU has also been usurped by Genesect and Salamence, which is really sad, as it excels in that niche. Ah well. Sheer Force Landorus is where it's at anyways.

    The moves my Landorus uses are all standard fare. Rock Polish allows Landorus to sweep past everything after one boost, much like Genesect. Earth Power lives up to its name and levels mountains, alongside everything that isn't resistant or immune to it, thanks to the boosts granted to it by STAB, Sheer Force, and its wonky effects on Life Orb. Focus Blast is another move that is boosted by Life Orb and Sheer Force, giving Landorus another move with which to smack around Skarmory and other Levitators. Focus Blast also assures the team that Landorus isn't helpless against Pokemon holding Air Balloon, most notably Heatran and Terrakion. Hidden Power Ice unfortunately isn't boosted by Air Balloon, but its use is limited to hitting Gliscor and other Dragons weak to it. The EVs were developed by Lavos Spawn, and grant Landorus the ability to outpace max Speed Venusaur after a boost while maximizing its power and granting it a respectable amount of bulk, and the IVs minimize confusion damage while granting Landorus a base 70 Hidden Power Ice. Life Orb works well with most of Landorus's moveset, and is incredible with Sheer Force.

    Landorus is the other member of the offensive sweeping core that this team centers itself around. In most games, it's the member sent out first to break apart the opponent's team so Genesect can sweep. On a few occasions, such as when I'm facing a team that Genesect can't sweep, but Landorus can, the order in which they come out will be reversed. Landorus's set-up opportunities are realized mostly against Choiced Pokemon locked into moves Landorus resists or is immune to. Should the opponent's team lose their special walls and be even slightly weakened once Landorus boosts, it's gg from there. If they aren't, then they won't be in good shape for the next assault from Genesect. All in all, Landorus is an incredible team member, and one that I lack the will to replace.[/BOX]
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    There's no earthly way of knowing which direction we are going...

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    Terrakion @ Salac Berry | Justified
    Jolly | 4 HP / 248 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Substitute | Swords Dance | Close Combat | Stone Edge


    [BOX]Terrakion is just one of those Pokemon that has everything it needs to succeed. It has an excellent Attack stat backed up by powerful STAB moves that hit almost all of the OU tier for neutral damage (screw you Toxicroak) and an auspicious Speed stat that allows it to outspeed the majority of its intended targets. Its typing, while leaving it vulnerable to common attacks such as Breloom's Mach Punch and Scizor's Bullet Punch, grants it a resistance to Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed and Volcarona's STAB, allowing it to use them as set-up fodder. Unlike Genesect and Landorus, Terrakion had quite a bit of competition with Lucario and Breloom to earn its spot on the team as a stallbreaker. While the former had access to ExtremeSpeed and auspicious resistances, and the latter powerful Technician-boosted attacks, both lacked Terrakion's speed and nearly unresisted STAB, which allowed it to chew through teams so that Genesect or Landorus can sweep unhindered. With that settled, I had to decide on a set. I was torn between the Choice Band set, which offered immediate power at the price of being locked into one move and possibility of being set-up fodder for Landorus and Terrakion, and the SubSD set, which doesn't have as much immediate power, but has even more potential, thanks to Substitute shielding it from status and Swords Dance ramping its Attack up to eleven, allowing it to tear teams of all archetypes apart.

    The moves are all pretty standard fare for Terrakion. Substitute gives Terrakion a temporary shield against status and revenge killers, and is key in activating its Salac Berry, for reasons seen below. Swords Dance allows Terrakion to serve as an excellent stallbreaker by boosting its Attack up to the point where even physical walls aside from Gliscor and Therian Landorus can't weather its hits. Close Combat is powerful STAB that helps clear the field of any special walls that could be an impediment to Genesect's and Landorus's sweeps. Stone Edge is Tyranitar's other STAB move, and is used when it'll hit harder than Close Combat. The EVs maximize Terrakion's Attack and Speed, and the last 4 EVs were tossed into HP so Terrakion's Salac Berry activates after 3 subs instead of 4. 4 EVs were taken out of Attack and placed in Special Defense so Genesect is forced to accept an Attack boost as it switches in, reducing the threat of its Rock Polish sets. Many thanks to Jimbon for suggesting this change.

    Terrakion's use depends on the team being faced. Against sun and Deoxys-D hyper offense teams, I'll lead with it, set a sub up, and get one Swords Dance up. Afterwards, I'll have Terrakion go on a rampage until it's taken down, at which point I'll have another team member pick up where Terrakion left off, keeping the offensive pressure and momentum on my side. Against rain teams, which have little in the way of set-up opportunities for Terrakion, I'll use it to take down as many members as possible until Politoed goes down, in which case I'll sack it so Salamence can start mowing down the opponent with Moxie-boosted attacks or Genesect can set itself up and sweep. If I notice that my opponent's team is 6-0ed by Terrakion, I'll forgo Stealth Rock and jump at the chance to rip apart the opponent's team. Terrakion is cool as a stall-breaker and possible late-game sweeper. If you're going to suggest a replacement, it should be able to do what Terrakion does, and a little bit more.[/BOX]
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    Head caught in a tide that's cruel as the ocean...

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    Keldeo [Resolute] @ Choice Scarf | Justified
    Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | 3 Atk / 30 SpA
    Hydro Pump | Secret Sword | Hidden Power | Icy Wind


    [BOX]Keldeo, much like its older mentor Terrakion, can assume several powerful roles, despite its limited movepool, thanks to its excellent stat spread. With Choice Specs attached, it becomes one of the best stall-breakers available, and with a Choice Scarf, it can serve as a premier revenge killer. It can even go as a set-up sweeper, thanks to its access to Calm Mind. Much like Terrakion, Keldeo had a bit of competition for its slot on the team with Latios and Hydreigon. While they both might have a powerful Draco Meteor, Keldeo has STAB moves that are almost as powerful, but don't have any negative side effects, as well as a typing that doesn't leave it as vulnerable to Genesect and Scizor. Compared to Latios, who was faster and slightly stronger, Keldeo's typing was the real deal-maker. With that determined, I looked into sets for Keldeo to use, and eventually narrowed my choices down to the SubCM set and the Specs set. The former boasted a semi-immunity to status and revenge killing, at the cost of limited coverage that is resisted by many more Pokemon than Terrakion's Rock / Fighting coverage. The latter had more immediate power, at the cost of an immunity to status. I ended up choosing the latter since Keldeo had a better defensive typing than Terrakion and was less vulnerable to priority moves. Besides, if Genesect wants to revenge kill Keldeo with Thunderbolt, it's going to have to face the consequences (getting set up on by Landorus). I did some more testing, and I eventually decided to use the Choice Scarf set, since it pressures rain teams like nothing else.

    The moves are what many people using Scarf Keldeo use. Hydro Pump is an incredible STAB move that can 2HKO almost anything that doesn't resist it. If the rain comes down, some resists are 2HKOed, while some Pokemon that were 2HKOed outside of the rain are now OHKOed. Secret Sword is the bane of any special wall that decides to switch in, thinking that they can absorb a Hydro Pump and recover the damage off. Hidden Power reduces the threat level of Gyarados and other fast Pokemon weak to Electric-type moves. Does Celebi think it's smart to switch in on Keldeo's Hydro Pump or Secret Sword? Icy Wind dispels that thought in a flash. The EVs are standard, and the IVs guarantee Keldeo an Electric-type Hidden Power with a base power of 70.

    The loss of Salamence caused the team to lose a solid revenge killer and rain check. Turns out this wasn't the end of the world. With a slight change to the item and moveset, Keldeo could easily take on the role of the powerful Scarfed revenge killer and late-game cleaner. Keldeo's role is not as specialized as its predecessor, due to its better typing. Due to the prominence of rain, Keldeo can serve as a terrorist against rain teams in the mid-game, while serving as a somewhat decent check to Volcarona and Gyarados. With its excellent Speed stat, it can act as a great dragon slayer, being able to snip apart opposing Scarf Salamence and Garchomp, each of which can pose a large problem if they're left to their own devices.[/BOX]
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    I'm looking for your hand in the rough; you're caught in the wire; well, I'll lift you out...

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    Hippowdon @ Leftovers | Sand Stream
    Impish | 252 HP / 248 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
    Earthquake | Stealth Rock | Slack Off | Whirlwind


    [BOX]It may seem strange to use Hippowdon in a team where only one member directly benefits from the sand it brings, but it's here to provide Stealth Rock and anti-weather support. Initially, this slot belonged to a Tyranitar, but I didn't exactly appreciate how it made the team extremely vulnerable to Gengar, Dugtrio, and Therian Tornadus, who could each easily eliminate or disable Tyranitar and have their own weather running again. In addition, every solution I concocted for each problem Pokemon left me vulnerable to something else. After some more testing, I decided to just drop it and use Physically Defensive Hippowdon, which Dugtrio cannot trap, thanks to its massive bulk, access to reliable recovery in the form of Slack Off, and pHazing that can't be stopped by Soundproof. As a testament to its massive bulk, CB Terrakion cannot 2HKO Terrakion with Close Combat unless hazards are down on the field. Hippowdon also acts as the first half of this team's defensive core.

    Hippowdon's moves are all standard fare, as it has relatively little to work with. Earthquake is there so Hippowdon doesn't become Taunt fodder, and can dish out a considerable amount of damage despite the lack of Attack EVs. Stealth Rock is the obligatory entry hazard that every team should have on them. It makes dealing with Dragonite and Volcarona a much less painful process for the team, and it also forces many more KOs than Sandstorm damage alone. Slack Off is Hippowdon's obligatory recovery move, smd it ensures the team that opposing weather abusers aside from Stoutland can't properly abuse their weather. Whirlwind is the obligatory pHazing move that prevents Hippowdon from being made set-up fodder by the many powerful attackers in OU. The EVs maximize Hippowdon's amazing physical bulk, while allowing it to speed creep opposing Hippowdon.

    I don't think I mentioned this in the Overview, but this team is not entirely dependent on sand to function. Hippowdon is here simply because it is a reliable Stealth Rock inducer that can deal with the multitude of powerful physical threats that can otherwise. With that aside established, Hippowdon usually leads the team, getting Stealth Rock down quickly and relatively painlessly, unless the team faced can be 6-0ed by one of the set-up sweepers the team uses. Once Stealth Rock is set, Hippowdon's main role will be relegated to acting as a pivot so another sweeper on the team can get a safe switch-in and start wreaking havoc. If an opposing stall team is being faced, I'll try to minimize Hippowdon's presence on the field to avoid the chance of it becoming set-up fodder for Pokemon such as Skarmory or Forretress. Overall, Hippowdon is a great Pokemon, and a critical team member that I am no longer willing to replace.[/BOX]
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    Watching, waiting, shaping, faking, shocking, pumping, mocking, stopping...

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    Rotom [Wash] @ Chesto Berry | Levitate
    Calm | 248 HP / 28 SpA / 228 SpD / 4 Spe | 0 Atk
    Volt Switch | Hydro Pump | Thunder Wave | Rest


    [BOX]Rotom-W is the other half of this team's defensive core, taking the attacks thrown around by top threats such as Therian Tornadus and Specs Keldeo (aside from Secret Sword) without any problems. Rotom-W is also my best defense against Rock Polish Genesect and Sheer Force RP Landorus, both of which are capable of running through my team if I didn't have a buffer against them. If you've been keeping tabs on this team, then you may realize that a Salamence used to occupy this slot. While IMO Salamence is still the best scarfer in the OU metagame, Rotom-W does a whole lot more for this team than Salamence did. For one, it can reliably paralyze, since its Water-type STAB in the form of Hydro Pump dissuades Ground-types not named Gastrodon from switching in on a presupposed Thunder Wave and taking a free turn to set themselves up. In addition, thanks to its auspicious typing, Rotom-W can act as a veritable offensive pivot for the rest of the team, bringing advantageous match-ups to them, at almost no cost to itself.

    Most of Rotom-W's moves are standard fare, with the exception of Rest. Volt switch is Rotom-W's first STAB and is the main reason that Rotom-W can act as an offensive pivot. Hydro Pump is Rotom-W's other STAB and strongest move available to it, and the key to Rotom-W's success in inducing paralysis on the opponent's team. Thunder Wave is Rotom-W's paralysis-inducing move, which allows it to slow down many offensive threats that could tear my team apart if they weren't slowed down. Rest is where I deviate from the standard specially defensive Rotom-W set. While the analysis advocates using Pain Split, I prefer using Rest because it gives Rotom-W a second chance at life and the ability to act as a status absorber for the rest of the team. The 4 EVs in Speed let my Rotom-W speed creep other Rotom-W, 28 SpA EVs give Rotom-W enough Special Attack to guarantee a OHKO against Gliscor with Hydro Pump, and the remaining EVs give Rotom-W quite a bit of special bulk. Chesto Berry was chosen over Leftovers because, when used alongside Rest, it grants Rotom-W once turn of status healing and 100% recovery.

    Rotom-W is sent out early on in the game to take attacks from Pokemon such as the aforementioned Therian Tornadus and Keldeo, as well as Politoed and other Pokemon like them, and possibly secure some momentum and a sweeping opportunity for one of Genesect, Landorus, or Terrakion. If it can do the latter task, then I can usually close the game without a hitch with the sweeper brought out by Rotom-W's Volt Switch. However, if the latter goal isn't accomplished, then no hope is lost, since it can serve as a potent special wall, offensive pivot, and paralysis inducer. Also, Rotom-W is one of the Pokemon used to best SubDD Gyarados, which can run through my team if I predict incorrectly. Usually, my gameplan to beat SubDD Gyarados is to break its sub with a slow Volt Switch from Rotom-W and rain Zeus's fury upon it with Keldeo's Hidden Power Electric. All in all, Rotom-W is an amazing Pokemon, and for this team, an excellent supporter for the powerful sweepers that this team uses.[/BOX]

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    Well, that's Optical Overload for you. Before I close the curtains on the text of this RMT, I'd like to thank Sayonara (A.K.A. Kira Light) for being a test buddy for the first iteration of this team. I hope this teaches you a few lessons! Also, thank you Intergalactic for working with me to build teams (Rise of the Stern Ritter really has influenced this team in a good way). It's incredibly fun to work with you, because the results end up bringing twists of creativity out from the both of us. Nasira, thank you for the Hippowdon suggestion. It's noticeably improved the team. Lavos Spawn is a boss for letting me use and post his Genesect and Landorus EV spreads, which are infinitely better than the spreads posted on-site, and a huge factor in this team's success. Finally, this is my public congrats to big Harsha on achieving modship. I'm glad to see that you've gone from being my tutee to where you are now. I'm also waiting for your rate. Have fun with this team, and if you know the origins of the italicised text above each the Pokemon, then you get kudos from me. If you like this team, please consider giving it a Luvdisc.

    ARCHIVE EDIT: If you intend to use this team in today's metagame, let it be known that an importable for the current version can be found below.
    Importable for alt. ver. of the team. KEEP THE NICKS IF YOU USE IT. (open)
    PHP:
    Plasticworld (Tyranitar) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs
    252 HP 48 Atk 200 SDef 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    Crunch
    Pursuit
    Stone Edge
    Superpower

    The Island 
    (Landorus) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs
    68 HP 252 SAtk 188 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs
    2 Atk 30 Def
    Rock Polish
    Earth Power
    Focus Blast
    Hidden Power [Ice]

    Under the Waves (Keldeo-Resolute) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs
    252 SAtk 4 SDef 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs
    3 Atk 30 Def
    Hydro Pump
    Secret Sword
    Hidden Power [Electric]
    Icy Wind

    Through the Loop 
    (Terrakion) @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs
    4 HP 248 Atk 4 SDef 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    Substitute
    Swords Dance
    Close Combat
    Stone Edge

    Witchcraft 
    (Hippowdon) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs
    252 HP 248 Def 4 SDef 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    Earthquake
    Slack Off
    Stealth Rock
    Whirlwind

    The Fountain 
    (Rotom-W) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs
    248 HP 28 SAtk 228 SDef 4 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs
    0 Atk
    Volt Switch
    Hydro Pump
    Thunder Wave
    Rest


    Former Members (open)
    [Let it come] Let it go streamline; [let it come] let it come inside...

    [​IMG]
    Salamence @ Choice Scarf | Moxie
    Naive | 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Outrage | Earthquake | Fire Blast | Dragon Claw


    [BOX]Eat your heart out Genesect. Salamence is easily the best Scarfer in OU at the moment. Salamence is mind-bogglingly fast, and thanks to Moxie, it can even attempt a late-game sweep with Outrage or Dragon Claw. The team needed a Scarfed revenge killer, and Salamence seemed to be the best Pokemon for this role, its only competition for this slot being Therian Thundurus and Garchomp. While the former ruined rain teams, it could not revenge kill Volcarona, and despite the latter's better speed, I preferred the late-game sweeping ability that Salamence had, thanks to Moxie (though I am willing to test Garchomp again). Salamence had the best attributes of Therian Thundurus (the ability to ruin rain teams) and Garchomp (Dragon STAB), in addition to the aforementioned ability to sweep with Moxie. It also had a handy resistance to Breloom's STAB, making it incredibly useful as a Breloom check. Salamence also conveniently outspeeds Scarf Genesect, allowing me to surprise them with a powerful and unexpected Fire Blast.

    Salamence's moves are all givens for the standard Scarf MoxieMence. Outrage is Salamence's most powerful STAB attack, and is the move most often clicked on once the opponent's team has been significantly weakened. The rest are coverage or auxiliary moves clicked upon once per battle (I exaggerate, but my point still stands). Earthquake deals a heavy amount of damage to the steels that will switch in and attempt to wall Salamence. Fire Blast does the same, but for levitating steels, such as Skarmory and Bronzong (even though Fire Blast does a pittance to the latter). Dragon Claw is Salamence's auxiliary STAB move, and is often the move used to sweep a severely weakened team in the late-game. However, I am considering the use of Rock Slide over Dragon Claw to more effectively revenge kill Volcarona and opposing Salamence. The EVs are standard fare, and the Naive nature lets Salamence outspeed every form of Scarf Genesect known to mankind.

    Salamence is the most straight-forward member of the team, thanks to its highly specialized role. It first appears later in the game to revenge kill Pokemon that have eliminated Keldeo or Hippowdon. It also serves as the team's resident Volcarona and Dragonite check, thanks to its superior speed and access to powerful Dragon STAB in the form of Outrage. In the end-game, it can be used to clean up house when there is no time to set up with Genesect or Landorus. In those situations when Salamence can't do much, I'll use it as a battering ram and information-gatherer. Thanks to Salamence's excellent base Speed and use of a Choice Scarf of its own, I can easily determine which of the opponent's Pokemon is Scarfed, and alter my game plans to use those Pokemon as set-up fodder. Salamence is an important Pokemon, but I think that Garchomp would be able to many of Salamence's roles, with the advantage of being able to outpace Scarf Landorus and Therian Thundurus.[/BOX]
  2. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,019
    Hey there,

    This is an excellent team you have here. The synergy between all your 'mons is pretty fantastic, and I would like to see the team in action. There are only two major issues that could prevent this team's success. Those issues have names: Choice Specs Tornadus-T and Rock Polish Genesect. For the first, your only real check to Torn-T is Specially Defensive Hippowdon, but Specs will still 2HKO 100% of the time, so if both Hurricanes hit in Sand then you're probably done for. As for RP Genesect, it's actually the exact same set that you use, that is the one that sweeps you. If it gets a setup opportunity, for example, Keldeo locked into HP Ice or Salamence locked into anything that's not Fire Blast, it's game over for you. However, there is a simple solution to both these problems, though it does require a bit of sacrifice on your end. I would suggest changing Rock Polish Genesect into a Specially Defensive Jirachi, and changing Hippowdon to a Physically Defensive set to help cope with your noticeable SD Terrakion weakness too. Now you check Torn-T with Jirachi, and RP Genesect can't OHKO Jirachi and will be subsequently OHKO'd by a Fire Punch after Life Orb recoil. Problem(s) solved. The suggested sets are listed below.
    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 236 SDef / 16 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Whirlwind
    - Slack Off

    That's all I have for you. Once again, excellent team! And thanks for the shoutout, I appreciate it.
  3. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,552
    Water+Ice is fairly common and has Super Effective coverage on 4/6 of your team. Starmie can even 1hko Keldeo as well.
    Milotic, Slowking/Slowbro, various other bulky water types all could help you out tremendously. Pick your favorite and find a slot for it.
  4. Dwayne

    Dwayne

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    25
    Hi Trinitrotoluene,
    This is one heck of a great Hyper Offensive Team. I've been using this team on PO and i could'nt help but notice that Spikes would help this team greatly in addition to the already present stealth rocks being provided by Hippowdon. Correct me if im wrong but according to what i've read Hippo is here to :
    1)Set up Rocks
    2)Change Weather
    3)Act as a mixed wall
    4)Deal with Gengar
    I dont see how Hippo deals with disable gengar if whirlwind is disabled except stall it out which i guess works for you but after testing this team out i would rather put Deoxys D > Hippowdon on this team. Sure the Gengar problem still persists but gengar isnt the Bulkiest of guys and your team can beat it with prediction. As for weather Change Deoxys D gets Rain Dance and Sunny Day and can act as a mixed wall for your team as well and get you those hazards which you need. The set i'd recommend is:

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys D @Mental Herb/Red Card
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef (252Def if you want to be more defencively oriented)
    Calm Nature (+SDef,-Atk)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Spikes
    -Sunny Day/Rain Dance(your call once again)
    -Night Shade

    LOL i think i just created a new weather changing Deoxys D set :P
    Thats all i have to say. GL with your team :)

    Edit : Luvdisc'd
  5. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

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    Hi Trinotulene, once again a really intesting team !
    I have some ideas about your team. I don't think they are better than the ideas above, but well, maybe it can help you somehow.

    First I don't really like the use of Hippowdon here. I think he breaks the momentum of the team, as you say in the description you often lead with him to get the rocks fast. That makes me think (and I'm not the only one) about an ersatz of a Deoxys-D. But you're right, it can change weather and you seem to appreciate it so I'd keep the Hippowdon.

    Now as Lavos stated you got a weakness to Tornadus-T, and this comes from your Choiced Keldeo. Indeed a prefer alot the Scarfed version, you can kill Tornadus-T before he does, and you can revenge kill the dragons that are faster than your Salamence (I'm thinking about Garchomp).

    So here is the changes I'd try, they can seem strange at first glance though :

    - [​IMG] @ [​IMG]

    - [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    220 HP / 232 Atk / 56 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    ¤ EarthQuake
    ¤ Ice Fang
    ¤ Stone Edge
    ¤ Fire Fang


    - [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    ¤ Close Combat
    ¤ Stone Edge
    ¤ Stealth Rock
    ¤ Sword Dance/Taunt


    So, Hippowdon is now a beast, everybody trying to set-up on him will die. He can still switch weather, and to me it works like Choice Band Ferrothorn (which is really strong god...).
    The EVs are here to ALWAYS live a Specs Hurricane from Tornadus-T, and have a good chance to survive it even with SR up.
    I bet every Tornadus-T would stay/switch in and die on the fat Hippow.
    Moreover, you survive a non-boosted IceBeam from RP LO Genesect, and KO it back with Fire Fang. It is also really likely that Genesect would try to Rock Polish on your Hippow, now you get a surprise kill easily.
    It could work with [​IMG] or [​IMG] also for Hippowdon, or some kind of berry. You might also consider these items with Slack Off somewhere.

    Now you need someone to put SR, so Lead Terrakion since you will almost never lose the start with him.
    I prefer SD>Taunt but it depends. Against Deoxys-D leads you just have to SD once, they usually taunt at the second round when they see it, and you 2HKO them at +2.
    Then you got a Terrakion at +2 with Sash. It means that you kill someone else easily.
    But you probably know it all already.

    You lose some speed, but with Keldeo you got get it back. You lose some power on him, but you win a big wall breaker in Hippowdon.

    By the way, I love that you got both Landorus and Hippowdon.
    Choiced pokemons who has to use Ice moves to kill stuff are the best set-up fodders for Genesect.
    These changes are here to make your team more "fluent", now Hippowdon will let absolutly no break to the opponent. Instead he will lure and kill stuff while your opponent tries to catch his breath. I prefer the use of hyper offensive/fast taunt leads in this kind of teams.


    I hope it helps, or gave some fresh ideas. I'm not claiming these are the best, but that's what I would have try right now after reading your RMT.

    [​IMG]'d.
  6. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    930
    I thought that Whirlwind was illegal with Slack Off - it turns out that Hippowdown can apparently breed with Smeargle (that is what PS is telling me through the /learn command). Anyways, I would recommend switching Hippowdon's spread to a Physically Defensive spread so you can handle Terrakion.

    You have major weaknesses to Tornadus-T and Quagsire (Specially Defensive and Curse sets are not OHKOed by Genesect's Giga Drain; and just because Quagsire is rare does not mean you should not be prepared for it). For some reason, I can see Rotom-Mow (Rotom-C) > Salamence as a good pokemon for this team, liking Terrakion for its ability to dispatch Chansey and Blissey. It can also harm Tornadus-T and Quagsire with its STAB Electric and Grass type moves. It seems odd, but it seems like a reasonable choice for your team. Salamence is surprisingly easy to revenge kill to begin with, so Rotom-C is a good replacement.

    New sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 12 SDef / 244 Def / 252 HP
    Impish Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Stealth Rock
    - Slack Off
    - Earthquake
    - Whirlwind

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick

    Considering that Tornadus-T might try switching out on you, Trick is the better option than Thunderbolt to cripple some of its checks, such as Chansey, Blissey, and Ferrothorn.
  7. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    496
    hi tnt,

    cool team you got here. terrakion + keldeo + genesect is strong as hell and i'm glad to see someone using it well. anyway, for an offensive team like this, it seems like you're relying a hell of a lot on your setup sweepers to do the work for you which does seem a little worrying for a team that isn't fully utilizing all the available hazards. even with just stealth rock, it's not like you're gonna get it up every match when hippowdon slows down your momentum and the majority of taunt users are faster than it anyway. i think something like choice scarf genesect would work well in place of your current rp genesect, however good you think rp genesect is right now. mainly because it provides you with a second scarfer which is really nice in this metagame where speed is king, and also with the u-turn momentum that your other supporting sweepers really love. it mitigates your tornadus-t problem to an extent, as you should have enough insurance against it with scarf genesect + sdef hippo + scarf mence. something like u-turn / ice beam / bug buzz / flamethrower or iron head would work well, iron head for terrakion who looks v annoying to face, especially choiced sets that require some prediction to get around.

    however, if you feel like rp genesect is too good to replace, then i feel like you could make a small change to patch up some of the threats while still retaining the same idea of 3 setup sweepers / stealth rocker / 2 choice users. while salamence is definitely a good late game sweeper, it's losing 25% upon switching in every time from stealth rock you can't prevent, while it just provides your opponent with more free setup opportunities as whatever move salamence locks itself into, it's still pretty easily walled. i think something like choice scarf jirachi would work just as well in the place of salamence, mainly providing you with another dragon resist + better tornadus-t check, while also giving you that important u-turn momentum. especially when you have 3 incredibly potent setup sweepers, i think your team would function much better with this change, as you'd have a much easier time setting up consistently with landorus / genesect / terrakion.

    also a small change, try a spread of 4 hp / 248 atk / 4 sdef / 252 spe on terrakion, as it gives genesect the atk boost upon switching in, meaning you take less from its coverage moves.

    good luck!
  8. Iridescent.

    Iridescent. formerly Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    745
    Hi Trinitrotoluene this team is very well made, and I just love the usage off Lando and Keldeo. Anyway there is a problem for your team that Lavos already have pointed out, Specs Tornadus + RP Genesect is really huge threaths, and I dont really agree with Lavos changes as this will slow your momentum and fantastic offensive presence, so my suggestion would be Specially Defensive Heatran over Hippowdon, as this Heatran really fits into your team handling both RP Genesect and Specs Tornadus which is crucial for you to handle. Also Heatran has really good synergy with your team and you also get rid off your third ice weakness in Hippowdon as Heatran walls ice hard and cold. Anyway the fighting weakness on your team is handled nicely by Salamence and Landorus.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    HEATRAN @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP | 252 SpD | 4 SAtk
    Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
    ¤ Lava Plume
    ¤ Toxic
    ¤ Stealth Rock
    ¤ Sunny Day / Roar

    So this set will provide you some really needed resistances, and also provides you with SR which you said was needed if Hippowdon was going to be swapped out. Anyway this set is quite standard except Sunny Day, Sunny Day provide you with your own weather or to win the weather war, as your team already handle all kind off weather nicely, and sun is nicely handled as well I think Sunny Day would be very good, but also Roar is would be great. Roar provide you with phazing and a way to handle SubCM Latias easier or other set up sweepers that can handle Lava Plume quite easely. Anyway hope I helped, and have a nice day further !
  9. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Hey there,

    This team seems pretty awesome and has great synergy. Like other users have noted, your team seems troubled by some of Rain's most prominent sweepers. Choice Scarf Keldeo under the Rain looks very tough to beat, and Choice Specs Tornadus-T can just spam Hurricanes. A very simple change to help with this would be making your own Keldeo Choice Scarf'd. This removes a Pokemon that Tornadus-T can spam on, and gives you a very effective Scarfer in this metagame. The other major threat to your team seems to be RP Genesect. To help with this I would definetly use Jimbon's Terrakion spread, to remove a possible Special Attack boost. I think with smart playing you can do well vs Genesect and tbh no team is really safe from it unless they run Heatran. Anyways, cool team and gl.
  10. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    559
    hey! i dont really have that much to suggest because this team is already good but i think that hippowdown here is a little bit outclassed by Tyranitar. I know tyranitar has a lot of weaknesses that u dont really want to have, mainly Bug and Fighing, but the offensive presence that tyranitar has is really appreciated here. Tyranitar is perfect to trapkill almost any check of specs keldeo, mainly named Starmie, Latios, Latias, Celebi, Jellicent. Once that u have eliminated those few threats you can freely spam the right stab to accumulate damages for you sweepers. Speaking of dugtrio, while its true that sun teams with dugtrio can be annoying as u said, u have rock polish landorus and sub salac terrakion that can both be problematic to face for a sun team, so i think that u dont really have to worry about that. To affievolite your tornadus-t and thundurus-t weakness you can put a chople berry on tyranitar so that u can take a focus blast and then ko them with stone edge.
    Set:
    Show Hide
    Tyranitar (F) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 92 SDef / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit


    Hope i helped, gl and luvdisc'd :3
  11. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey Lavos Spawn! Thanks for the rate, Luvdisc, and boss EV spreads. Now, onto the substance of your rate. I was testing your ideas out a few days ago, and needless to say, they've been rather effective. They've helped me win a mini-tour on zarel's Pokemon Showdown! server (a small victory, but still a victory). Once again, thank you.

    Bulky waters slow the pace of this team more than Hippowdon does, but your ideas have quite a bit of merit. I'll look into the use of a resist to Water- and Ice-type moves (Rotom-W looks especially appealing). Thanks for bringing those issues to light, youngjake93.

    Thanks for the rate and Luvdisc Dwayne! You're right about Hippowdon's role on the team. I'll try out Deoxys-D (albeit with some modifications) later.

    Hey Remedy! Thanks for the rate and Luvdisc. Your Scarf Keldeo idea looks pretty darn fantastic, so I'll be sure to try it out. I'll also make sure to test out your other ideas. Also, I checked out your RMT recently. I'm glad Grimaniel had such a large influence on your team.

    Your ideas look pretty cool, actually. My only qualm is that Rotom-C, even after a Scarf boost, is too slow to revenge kill some of the threats I have in mind when I use Salamence. I'll try them out later on. Thanks for your rate, A dude!

    Your idea of using Scarf Jirachi is awesome, as is your EV spread idea for Terrakion. Thanks for the rate and Luvdisc Jimbon!

    I never really thought of running Specially Defensive Heatran on this team before. Thanks for the rate and Luvdisc BROStime!

    I'll try out Scarf Keldeo as soon as possible then. Thanks for the rate dragonuser!

    It's funny, since I use Tyranitar on a previous iteration of this team, but I never thought of using Chople Berry on it. Thank you for your rate and Luvdisc Neliel Tu Oderschvank! Boss username by the way. Bleach is awesome.

    Thanks to everyone who's rated this team so far! I'll make a post detailing some of the changes made once I'm done testing. I'd also appreciate more rates.
  12. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

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    I'm making this rate as though none of these changes have been taken into account, so this is just a heads-up. Your team is pretty well rounded, just as most sand offensive teams are. However, speedier threats can dismantle you if your opponent plays them early on, before either Genesect or Landorus can set up a Rock Polish. Salamence is your only answer to the likes of Tornadus-T, Latios, and other speedy threats, and with the omnipresence of Stealth Rock (which can come up early from lead Terrakion, Deoxys-D, and other common Pokemon) and the damage from sandstorm, it will take a toll. This leads to my first point: I always recommend everyone that runs sand offense has at least a base 108 Speed Pokemon equipped with a Choice Scarf as well as multiple solid resistances and checks to Keldeo, along with a bit of weather control. Your own Keldeo can definitely be equipped with a Choice Scarf in my opinion, and instead of attempting a late-game sweep with Salamence and Terrakion, you can go with Keldeo and Terrakion (along with your Rock Polish twins, of course). With that, you free up some room for other teammates in that slot. Blissey and Chansey are virtually non-existant anywhere—from the ladder to tournaments—so they're not a problem at all. You may worry about more common special walls, but then you've got to realize that the two most common special walls, Jirachi and Rotom-W, are dismantled by your Rock Polish sweepers. The spread is 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with a Timid nature and a moveset of Surf / Hydro Pump / Secret Sword / Hidden Power Ice.

    If Salamence is gone, you can afford to replace it with a better source of weather control. You depend on using your sweepers to force out opposing weather and the longevity of Hippowdon to keep you stabilized. However, Pokemon like Choice Specs Politoed will OHKO or 2HKO any Pokemon on this team given the opportunity, and you can't exactly switch into it. Ninetales obviously isn't a threat due to the nature of your sweepers; they almost all have super effective coverage. I think that using a specially defensive Rotom-W in the place of Salamence stops a lot of headaches. For one, it's immune to Spikes and leaves you with a Pokemon to switch into Ground-type attacks. It also relieves you against common rain archetypes, providing you with a switch-in against Tornadus-T and other common rain sweepers. You don't have a Pokemon to really take a hit if you're ever on the back foot, so this should help. A spread of 248 HP / 28 SpA / 228 SpD / 4 Spe along with Leftovers, a Calm Nature, and a moveset of Volt Switch / Hydro Pump / Thunder Wave / Pain Split should help here.

    Defensive Hippowdon is probably a better choice for this team, as it provides a much better switch-in for Terrakion and physical Dragon-types. With Rotom-W, you deal sufficiently well with most specially based threats, and defensive Hippowdon sets Stealth Rock more easily against physical attacks it can tank. The problem with specially defensive sets is that rain teams are so common that they don't provide any extra weather control, as Water-type moves will shut Hippowdon down regardless. I'd run a simple spread of 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe to get the jump on opposing Hippowdon with Whirlwind, and a Bold nature with Leftovers and a moveset of Earthquake / Slack Off / Whirlwind / Stealth Rock. It does the job against opposing threats much better than specially based Hippowdon in this metagame in my opinion. Remember that you can't leave it in against Tornadus-T at any cost, though, as it gets annihilated by Hurricane. These changes provide your team with more Speed and defensive power at the cost of some attacking power, but with such frail Pokemon in this metagame, that's really not too big of a deal. Besides, your onslaught of sweepers should be able to keep the opponent at bay regardless of what he or she brings. Thanks for the shoutout and congratulations. This is a pretty cool team, and most of my suggestions are nitpicks, as long as this rate is. Good luck, I hope this helped you out.
  13. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    This is a very impressive team, but some things seem redundant.

    Landorus and Genesect don't need a lot of damage to proceed to sweep an opposing team. They just need certain pokemon to be weakened and a single set up opportunity. Scarf Keldeo does just that without leaving you vulnerable to pokemon like Tornadus and other scarfed pokemon. Specs is not that necessary unless you are really anti chans/bliss and even then secret sword should do enough.

    Additionally if you are going to make hippo specially defensive I would give it a 252 hp / 4 atk / 252 spdef spread with 25 def IVs so that Genesect gets an attack boost upon switch in.

    I would also replace salamence as a result of making Keldeo scarfed but salamence is great paired up with genesect. If they commit to taking out mence (when its usually with an ice move) it gives genesect an opportunity to set up rock polish and deal some damage.
  14. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Alright. Keeping you all up to date with my verdict on the changes proposed for Optical Overload.

    Established Changes:
    • [​IMG]
      • Choice Specs ----> Choice Scarf; proposed by Remedy, dragonuser, and Harsha
      • Hidden Power [Ice] ----> Hidden Power [Electric]; proposed by yours truly
      • Surf ----> Icy Wind; proposed by yours truly
    • [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]; proposed by Jimbon
    • [​IMG]
      • 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe ----> 4 HP / 248 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe; proposed by Jimbon and dragonuser
    • [​IMG]
      • 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Careful ----> 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe Impish; proposed by Lavos Spawn, A dude, and Harsha (EV spread accredited to Harsha)

    I went through with the Keldeo changes because Gyarados was incredibly annoying to face down, as was Scarf Garchomp. Besides, it's an amazing Scarfer, and one that more people should be using. Scarf Jirachi got the nod over Salamence because of its better typing and overall ability to frustrate the living hell out of people with repeated fast Iron Heads. It also beats Therian Tornadus, so that's a big plus in my books. Admittedly, it helps little against Genesect, but it has close to zero set-up opportunities against this team. However, I do plan on phasing out Jirachi for Rotom-W once I'm done testing the latter, as the latter has been giving me better results. Regarding my Hippowdon changes, they've made facing Terrakion and Therian Landorus much less of a headache than it was before. nota bene: I've been testing Rotom-W before Harsha's rate thanks to the suggestion of youngjake93.

    Tentative Modifications:
    • [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]; proposed by BROStime
    • [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]; proposed by Neliel Tu Oderschvank
    • [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]; proposed by Dwayne
    • [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]; proposed by youngjake93 and Harsha

    All of these changes bar the Rotom-W change revolve around the Stealth Rock setter and weather inducer of the team. Each one of them has their good and bad points, and while they've all been giving me pretty good results, Hippowdon functions much better than the other three Pokemon. Some more tests will be executed to finalize my results. Regarding Rotom-W, it's been doing better than Jirachi, but I still need to do more testing on it before I make a verdict, thanks to me testing it much more recently than the other changes.

    Rejected Ideas:
    • [​IMG]
      • Leftovers ----> Choice Band
      • 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe Impish ----> 220 HP / 232 Atk / 56 Def Adamant; proposed by Remedy
    • [​IMG]
      • Salac Berry ----> Focus Sash; proposed by Remedy
      • Substitute ----> Stealth Rock; proposed by Remedy
    • [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]; proposed by A dude

    I don't like CB Hippowdon as much as the defensive versions. Yes, it's unexpected, but there are too many common threats to warrant its use over a defensive variant. I also didn't exactly like SR Terrakion on the team, since it didn't have what I needed from it (i.e. power to break stall in half and sweep if it gets an opportunity). Rotom-C was slower and weaker than I liked, and I did not run into a single Quagsire that couldn't be taken out by Genesect.

    I'll update the OP with new art and the changes fairly soon.
  15. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    430
    Hey! great team you've got there :)
    The offensive synergy between gene rak and lando is tremendous and the trio pummels through many team archetypes. One small issue I see is that with the addition of rotom, the team's grass weakness becomes more prominent (reaching 4/6), making it a bit hard to switch into stuff like venusaur, rp gene and the likes. However I enjoy the lack of setup opportunities given to gene to set up, as basically everything will ohko/cripple/phase it maybe barring terrakion. Then again a 60%+ ish rotom facing a genesect with +0 is as good a counter as an offensive team can get (part of the reason many ppl including myself have started to use twave over wow). Theres not a whole lot I can add to help modify the team because the 2 poke defensive core suits the offensive trio very well. Also pony is THE best scarfer in the metagame imo, boasting ample resistances and reliable stabs with enormous coverage. I would suggest that you move a few evs to hippo's special defense stat just so weak scalds and random hidden powers don't cripple you (a <50% hippo is crippled imo). It is also better for taking on other weather starters, ie switching into tails. I know this will make you a bit band rak weak but terrakion are mostky scarfed nowadays. Mamoswine can be a problem though, being able to 2hko everything, but that goes for most offensive teams. Mamo does give gene and rak set up opportunities which is welcome! In conclusion the team looks very solid, and more special bulk on hippo makes your two poke defensive core more balanced and less prone to surprises.
    Congrats on making a great team!
  16. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,711
    Hi, it's me again x)

    I have the same opinion as CTC, the Grass weakness is annoying, and in my opinion there is something to change. In fact Genesect doesn't need the +SpA, he can threaten all your team without it. Rotom-W takes like 50-55% from Giga Drain, and as he works as your SpD pivot, this can be harder to T-Wave the Genesect, you can always sac a pokemon to bring him for the safe T-Wave, but I don't think this is so good :\

    I'm also really worried about opposing Volcarona, once they set some QD, the bulky ones with Giga Drain will be really hard to kill for your team. It takes pretty well Genesect atacks, and recover on the rest of your team. Only Landorus can sort of threaten it, but with a QD, it becomes hard.

    It's hard for me to find a good idea.. Heatran patches this issue, but makes you weaker to Water Atacks.
    But I'm sorry that my past ideas didn't work.. so nevermind if it seems weird again, here is what I'd do :

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Dry Skin
    Adamant
    252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
    - Sword Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Ice Punch

    Toxicroak > Terrakion

    Yes, you lose a BIG powerhouse, but you win a pokemon that got in today's metagame, many oppotunities to shine. Rotom-W was here to take water hits? okay fine, now Toxicroak can do this job without lowering the pressure on your enemy. You can sit all day on Keldeo and start a sweep. There is nothing in a Rain Team that can take him easily, only a Jirachi, but it's usually a free switch for your Hippowdon.
    I put BlackSludge>LifeOrb to not take too big a recoil with Sand Storm damages.


    And,

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Flash Fire
    Modest
    252 SpA / 4 HP / 252 Spe
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Substitute

    This can seem weird, but with all these Genesect, you can pretty easily set a Substitute. With a Substitute you need to do as much damage as possible before leaving.
    This way you got a pokemon still pressuring the enemy while offering some cheer defensive typing.


    I'll test it myself, and maybe come back with some better options.



    EDIT : Here is what you could try instead of Heatran :

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Teravolt
    248 HP / 140 SDef / 64 Def / 56 Spe
    Careful Nature
    (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt

    I got the idea when thinking about a solid Genesect check. With these EVs, he can switch in a +1 Genesect, take SR Damage and an IceBeam on the turn of the switch, and roost the second turn after taking another +1 IceBeam. I take Leftovers into account.
    He can do the WallBreaking job, I'm not really sure about the set, but I'm convinced that it would pull its weight.
    Moreover he got a *4 Resistance to Grass moves and that's great, even if no Spinner given his recovery move, it should be ok.
  17. Dwayne

    Dwayne

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    25
    Hi TNT,
    Im back with one more suggestion for this team even though its solid anyways. Despite being a solid team this team lacks any form of priority making you an easy prey to shell smash cloyster and other sweepers with higher speed. This is why i'd suggest you run breloom>terrakion and even though terrakion is a monster in its own way techniloom not only provides priority to the team but also cripples a pokemon on the opponents team due to spore with its perfect accuracy. The set i suggest is the standard techniloom set with life orb for superior power not to mention a possible solution for a grass type weakness:

    Breloom @Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EV's : 4HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
    Nature : Adamant (+Atk,-SAtk)
    Spore
    Swords Dance
    Mach Punch
    Bullet Seed

    Also on a more personal note i would change your current rotom W set as i personally feel that Pain Split Rotom-W more or less does the same job as Resto Chesto Rotom-W while leaving a space for an item where you could put leftovers on rotom-W giving it slow but reliable recovery and pain split in terms of major recovery making you a more effective special wall.

    (in a hurry so couldnt put the pic and elaborate a bit more)
  18. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,729
    Due to the new rule regarding ties, Optical Overload won the RMT of the Week. Anyone who has rated this team already or will rate it until next Wednesday will get points towards RMT of the Week rewards.

    Congratulations to Trinitrotoluene for winning!
  19. King of Blades

    King of Blades

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Hi!

    Well, I can't really give a team rate, as the team itself got crushed by the removal of genesect from OU. The thing I see about your team is that you have a revenge killer, and tons of set-up sweepers, but you have no pokemon that can just come in and smash some faces. Since you now have a spot freed up thanks to the removal of genesect. The best thing to do with this open spot is to a) put in a sponge, specifically the heatran mentioned by BROStime or b) put in a pokemon that can punch holes in teams very quickly.

    Here are the pokemon I would like to suggest.

    #1 Latios
    [​IMG]
    Latios @Life Orb / Expert Belt / Choice Specs
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP | Timid | Levitate
    ~Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    ~Filler*
    ~Filler*
    ~Filler*

    *read the analysis below to figure out what goes here.

    Draco meteor is your STAB. Dragon pulse can be used. There are so many fillers that I don't feel like listing them in the actual moveslot. For the next 3 moves, you can pick and choose between any one of the following moves: hp fire, ice beam, grass knot, thunderbolt, surf, hp fighting, energy ball, psychic, and psyshock. There are many items for you to choose from. Expert belt is the safest bet. Life Orb gives more power, but at the cost of hp. Choice Specs is the strongest, but you can't switch moves. Timid is preferred to outspeed all variants of terrakion.

    #2 Hydreigon
    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon @Life Orb / Choice Specs / Expert Belt
    252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP | Timid / Modest | Levitate
    ~Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    ~Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    ~Dark Pulse / Focus Blast / Earth Power
    ~Surf / Earth Power / Focus Blast

    This is basically the same idea as latios, except slower and better coverage.


    Hope this helps! You have an awesome RMT.

    ~KoB ([​IMG]'d)
  20. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,416
    Congrats on winning the RMT of the Week!

    So the obvious elephant in the room is that Genesect is banned. The main problem that this brings to your team is that your only Steel-type, and Dragon-resist, is now illegal in the OU metagame. The first replacement I see, and the obvious choice, is Scizor. The other metal bug is perhaps the best replacement due to its large offensive presence. The two options are of course, Choice Band or Swords Dance. One set relies on its standing power and provides a top notch offensive pivot who can double as a revenge killer; while the other set will function closer to your old Genesect's, setting up and attempting to sweep. The set I want to suggest aims to combine these two roles as best as possible:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Scizor (F) @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Roost


    With this Scizor can pair up with Rotom-W to form a very strong Volt-Turn combo, weakening the opposing team till any of your offensive Pokemon can sweep, while doubling as one of those sweepers. Iron Plate is used to bluff the Choice Band early game while boosting the power of, arguably, Scizors most potent move, Bullet Punch. This Pokemon's bulk and reliable recovery turns many checks or counters into set up bait. Scizor can easily set up on Gliscors and eliminate them, removing one of Terrakion's best counters. Bullet Punchs priority also allows you to revenge any +2 sweepers who may have gotten out of hand, as long as some prior damage is applied.

    Its a really cool team, Good Luck!
  21. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    261
    Hey TNT! This team is probably the best display of how the metagame was with Genesect (Archive hint)! Props on making such a great team!
    Anyway, onto the rate. As I see the team now (which means Rotom W and Scarf Keldeo) Breloom seems like a huge threat to the team. The only thing you have against it is Landorus, and if your opponent predicts his switch in, you'll be in some trouble. As I don't what Rotom-W's role is on the team, since you haven't added a description yet (please don't take offense), I suggest replacing him with your Lati of choice. This makes you weaker to rain teams in general and Tornadus T in particular. That's why I suggest trying Chople Tyranitar over Hippowdon. It's not as good a check as Rotom W was, but with Pursuit and sufficient Attack EV's, you still beat the dreaded genie. He also doesn't slow the team as Hippo did, and takes care of the Latis, which look like they could give you some trouble, especially if they carry HP Fire.
    Hope I helped and good luck!
  22. TheStriker

    TheStriker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    Sup Trin,

    Dude, Genesect is banned, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, all the effort Smogon put in the analysis and sets for it become junk now. Who cares, there problem. So, looks like the world with Genesect is finally over and many come out of the hospital relieved. I really find Mamoswine his best replacement.

    Mamoswine @ Choice Band
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Nature: Adamant
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stone Edge
    - Icicle Crash

    Well, I hope I could help. I want to sleep now....
  23. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    559
    :( really sad that genesect is now banned, so i cant use your team anymore on the ladder lol
    If you want to know, i changed your Genesect into Agility Lucario. While lucario does not have the same coverage, with close combat, Ice punch and Crunch it still have nearly perfect coverage, and its typing its relatively similar to Genesect. The only problem is that this give you an another fight weakness, so that breloom become even more threatening. To affievolite this i changed the set of Terrakion to Rock polish, sword Dance, Cc and stone edge with a chople berry, so that you can baitkill Breloom, but i dont know if it really works. Anyway, this is just my opinion if you want to use your team even with Genesect banned, so feel free to ignore my comment.
  24. TheStriker

    TheStriker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    Hi TNT,

    So, I decided to put more EFFORT into the rate this time than me being sleepy and all yesterday. Here is what I prefer:

    [​IMG]

    Hydreigon @ Choice Specs / Life Orb / Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SDef
    Nature: Rash (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dark Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower

    One more person has also posted a similiar set as well. With Genesect banned, Hydreigon is free to tear up OU with its amazing coverage. This movepool hits 10/17 types in the game and with electric almost never seen, poison crazy rare not to mention most have that secondary grass typing that is killed by Fire Blast, fighting only seen with Breloom who is scorched by Fire Blast as well, and most pokemon nuetral are mostly all specially frail. With other stuff, he has basically the equavilent of checking 15/17 types in the OU metagame currently which is amazing. Genesect's ban as well as Breloom not being able to do anything past those 252 HP EVs, Hydreigon fits the team perfectly. Because of sand being present, its best to use Expert Belt or Choice Specs, but I usually use Expert Belt. You know what? You can decide what else you want to say if you use this set. Levitate makes the team even less predictable because its either a check to Landorus or your wall being killed or next pokemon being dented by good predictability. If you use my set, there are good moving pic like in the episode Iris and the Rouge Dragonite and the movies. Okay hope I could help! This is for the Genesect replacement if you are wondering.
  25. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    165
    Hey there TNT!

    Congrats on winning RMT of the week of course~

    But since Genesect's banned, it's time for a replacement. I can see both Latias and Latios being enormous annoyances without Genesect to take a single Draco Meteor or a couple Psyshocks, so your team can be worn down relatively quickly (especially since your special wall being Rotom-W can't really touch them outside of Thunder Wave.) Plus, in Specs Latios' instance, it'll probably just switch out after lauching a Draco Meteor, giving them a chance to escape T-Wave. And once they see T-Wave, they'll be quite wary about staying in. Similarly, Icy Wind on Keldeo still fails to 2HKO Lati@s and is quite risky to be locked into (really only because it's so weak), which is a big problem since it's the only thing on your team that outspeeds them. Landorus' HP Ice certainly does a nice chunk, but it still fails to OHKO them while they have the potential to OHKO you back. With Genesect gone, these two can relatively easily run through your team by switching in and out, leaving their traces of destruction.

    SO, to completely wipe out this issue and help the rest of your sweepers do their job, I strongly recommend you add in a Tyranitar over the now banned Genesect. Not because it outclasses Hippo or anything, but because it's able to trap and kill a ton of threats to your team. It helps your sweepers do their job SO much more effectively, since it has the ability to remove Celebi, Jellicent, Lati@s, Slowbro (sorta), Starmie, as well as opposing weather starters. As an added bonus, it also adds a second Sand Streamer to your team, making winning the weather war a very simple task. With the aforementioned threats gone, Keldeo has a much easier time spamming those powerful Hydro Pumps to blow important holes in opposing teams. Landorus now has the potential to break through Celebi with prior weakening from Pursuit. Terrakion no longer has to worry about Slowbro being a nuisance to its sweep since a +2 Stone Edge OHKOs after a Pursuit from TTar. Starmie also becomes less of a problem since those with Psyshock seem to be able to do a number to your team. TTar works wonders in tandem with Rotom-W since many things that like to switch into Volt Switch get Pursuit trapped. I'd like to recommend a 252 Adamant Choice Band set to do up to 80% with Pursuit to 252/252+ Slowbro, but that reduces your ability to take Surfs from Lati@s (or Starmie). Maybe a set like this could work:
    Tyranitar (open)

    [​IMG] (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 200 SDef / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Superpower
    - Stone Edge

    I messed with EVs a bit and found out that these OHKO standard Jellicent with Pursuit after Stealth Rock. Of course, it also OHKOs Lati@s and Starmie 100% of the time, and 252 HP Celebi after Rocks. 8 Spe outspeeds 4 Spe TTars (lol) so you can Superpower first. The rest goes into HP and SDef so you can more effectively trap stuff.


    Anyway, good luck now that Genesect's banned! I'm sure TTar will be handy with the predicted rise of Lati@s and Celebi. It makes a great partner for just about every Pokemon on your whole team. Luvdisc'd! :]


    Summary of Changes

    • [​IMG]
      • Change to [​IMG]
        • Set (open)

          Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
          Trait: Sand Stream
          EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 200 SDef / 8 Spd
          Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
          - Pursuit
          - Crunch
          - Superpower
          - Stone Edge

          Refer to body of rate for explanation.

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