ORAS Battle Spot to Unban Pokemon Obtained in Past Generations

[Theorymon]

Honestly I'm skeptical of defog in singles. You barely even see Rapid Spin because 3vs3 gets so fast paced, even on stall teams, so I can't imagine Defog making an appearance!

However as far as I know, Defog also removes Reflect and Light Screen. This might make dual screens fairly interesting in Rotations, because in that metagame, dual screens are so deadly that you actually see people running Chandelure specficaly to nail them (in addition to substitute Pokemom)! Defog has a pretty wide distribution under Pokebank, and you do occasionally see random Brick Break Pokemon in rotations, so maybe Defog has some potential there.

 

[6tennis]

Honestly I'm skeptical of defog in singles. You barely even see Rapid Spin because 3vs3 gets so fast paced, even on stall teams, so I can't imagine Defog making an appearance!

However as far as I know, Defog also removes Reflect and Light Screen. This might make dual screens fairly interesting in Rotations, because in that metagame, dual screens are so deadly that you actually see people running Chandelure specficaly to nail them (in addition to substitute Pokemom)! Defog has a pretty wide distribution under Pokebank, and you do occasionally see random Brick Break Pokemon in rotations, so maybe Defog has some potential there.

Defog removes everything, including Screens. It will see play in Rotations, no doubt. Too bad Rotations isn't on Showdown *COUGH COUGH* *ADD ROTATIONS* *COUGH COUGH*

 

[Simperheve]

I'm quite concerned as to what this means for those who do not have access to previous generation games. Now that people can bring Pokemon from previous games, it's going to increase the available roster to the point where anyone who only has the Gen 6 games will be left in the dust. That's pretty bad for the Metagame since it reduces accessibility to the point where the majority of well finishing players will likely fall into one of two categories:

1. Those who can afford to get/ already have the lower Gen games
2. Those who are able to obtain the Pokemon deemed relevant to the format via other means.

I know for one i've struggled with getting into the format, and now I know I'm going to need to buy myself copies of the old games again to RNG decent Pokemon from, it's making me question if there's much point.

Also, as mentioned many times, it's fairly obvious that we're going to see a huge influx of generated Pokemon on the Battle Spot ladder. which to some degree invalidates the time spent people have spent soft resetting, breeding and screaming at their games to get Pokemon that are competitively viable.

 

[Xen]

I've been thinking about it since I started my Kanga giveaway, but since I enjoy RNGing more than battling (it's what I'm most well known for in the Wi-Fi sub-section), I wouldn't mind RNGing a bunch of old Pokemon w/ tutors and distributing them to those who need them for this season's Battle Spot, assuming it's okay with the Mods of course? Hopefully it would help even out the playing field a little bit, and keep unnecessary hacks off the BS ladder.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I've been thinking about it since I started my Kanga giveaway, but since I enjoy RNGing more than battling (it's what I'm most well known for in the Wi-Fi sub-section), I wouldn't mind RNGing a bunch of old Pokemon w/ tutors and distributing them to those who need them for this season's Battle Spot, assuming it's okay with the Mods of course? Hopefully it would help even out the playing field a little bit, and keep unnecessary hacks off the BS ladder.

That would certainly be wonderful of you, as far as I'm concerned.

(Is not a mod.)

 

[NOVED]

This might be an unpopular opinion but personally, i wouldn't say the ladder is unfair to those who only have access to gen 6 mons, as far as battling goes. I'm still in favor of the pentagon rule but i dont think the meta will shift so much that players with only pentagon pokemon will notice any bigger disadvantage. Yeah it's true that you cant use seismic toss kanga or sheer cold suicune like other people can, but this doesn't stop you from being able to run pokemon that can deal with the "new" past gen additions. And it's not like all the "new" toys here are so strong that they're a must have on every team. This isn't an impact that's as big as new megas. There's just gonna be a few new moves thrown around.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

This might be an unpopular opinion but personally, i wouldn't say the ladder is unfair to those who only have access to gen 6 mons, as far as battling goes. I'm still in favor of the pentagon rule but i dont think the meta will shift so much that players with only pentagon pokemon will notice any bigger disadvantage. Yeah it's true that you cant use seismic toss kanga or sheer cold suicune like other people can, but this doesn't stop you from being able to run pokemon that can deal with the "new" past gen additions. And it's not like all the "new" toys here are so strong that they're a must have on every team. This isn't an impact that's as big as new megas. There's just gonna be a few new moves thrown around.

It's not that it's a major change so much as it's just not a good one.

Anyway, I'll carry over thoughts I expressed on Showdown and over at NB on why this might be happening now:

Bad change, the accessibility issues are real, etc.

Anyway, I suspect it will be only for one season. It's obvious TCPi has been taking more interest in competitive gameplay recently, so here are reasons this may be happening now:

1) It's off-season for the circuit, so they're throwing players a bone who want to bring out their old Pokemon. Basically a casual playground.

2) Coming off a Worlds metagame that may have showed too much centralization for their taste, they may want to see what old events can shake up the ladder and use that for consideration in bringing them back (new releases) or rebalancing. Without a new game on the horizon, this is their only way to check the results of a kind of mass shake-up to the ORAS metagame right now. They may want to see if it affects the metagame in any way they can use to push more diversity (I doubt it will, but if they have to check, now's the time).

Either way, this is the best time to do it, if they have to.

 

[Jibaku]

It may be stretching it, but perhaps they want to see the effects of Past Gen mons and use the information to plan several re-releases for when the next Pokemon game comes out, while putting the pentagon back on. Either way I personally don't have issues with the current pentagon lifting (probably since I started playing competitive pkmn on Sim and I'm used to having an 'open world', so to speak) bar a select few mons whose existences are almost mythical (Wish events), and there are definitely a couple of stuff I'd love play again.

And I guess there are also some old gen breeders that really want their mon in the spotlight.

 

[veiva]

No one who can go on BattleSpot can claim they only have access to Generation 6 Pokemon... Since you have the ability to use online services, you can trade with other people to get the Pokemon you want. Therefore, you can obtain Pokemon with exclusive sets all the way from Generation 3. Besides battling, trading for Pokemon you don't have is pretty much the point of the games and has been possible from day one.

 

[NOVED]

It's not that it's a major change so much as it's just not a good one.

Like i said, i'm not in favor of this. I think if TPCi can promote fair play as opposed to unfair play, then they should. So, having a pentagon rule would be a good way to do that. Removing it is essentially just promoting unfair play and nearly forces you to RNG or cheat to get competitively viable pokemon if you want a specific move from 10 years ago or whatever. I have nothing wrong with RNG, but it's playing the game in a way that wasnt intended and people shouldn't have to resort to playing the game in any way that isnt intended, which we do have to with the no pentagon rule.

But what i was trying to say is, if you do decide to play legit and keep using only pentagon pokemon or literally only have access to gen 6 games, i dont think this metagame change will overwhelm you competitively. I dont think you're in an unfair position and you certainly wont be "left in the dust" because you aren't running a few pokemon from gen 3 games. A lot of pokemon will still be running sets you can easily obtain through your normal play on ORAS and XY.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

No one who can go on BattleSpot can claim they only have access to Generation 6 Pokemon... Since you have the ability to use online services, you can trade with other people to get the Pokemon you want. Therefore, you can obtain Pokemon with exclusive sets all the way from Generation 3. Besides battling, trading for Pokemon you don't have is pretty much the point of the games and has been possible from day one.

I'm with Jibaku on the possible motivation for this, and it likely won't stay for more than a season, but this is asinine. We may be able to get these event Pokemon through some effort, but the game should be moving away from, and has been, requiring new players have either old equipment or ins and trading communities. And I can't imagine TCPi wants to continue to encourage cloning. The way legendaries work is kind o their one remaining obstacle, but there's no reason to exacerbate it.

I don't think anyone here is super worried that they won't be able to get a good Eruption Heatran or whatever, or even that it'll be a huge deal, but in general it's not a healthy move for competitive Pokemon. And lately TCPi had been making a number of surprisingly healthy moves for it.

 

[veiva]

I'm with Jibaku on the possible motivation for this, and it likely won't stay for more than a season, but this is asinine. We may be able to get these event Pokemon through some effort, but the game should be moving away from, and has been, requiring new players have either old equipment or ins and trading communities. And I can't imagine TCPi wants to continue to encourage cloning. The way legendaries work is kind o their one remaining obstacle, but there's no reason to exacerbate it.

I don't think anyone here is super worried that they won't be able to get a good Eruption Heatran or whatever, or even that it'll be a huge deal, but in general it's not a healthy move for competitive Pokemon. And lately TCPi had been making a number of surprisingly healthy moves for it.

Whatever The Pokemon Company wants is evidently different from what GameFreak does. Generation 6 could have been to the DS and GBA what Generation 3 was to the GameBoy and GameBoy Color, but it wasn't.

Also, out of the "killer" event Pokemon in prior generations, most of them are not viable due to various circumstances. There is no decent Wish Chansey/Blissey, for example (in fact, are there any competitive Generation 3 event distributions of Pokemon with "unique" movies?), and this change does not suddenly counteract this. There will be a bunch of hacked Pokemon on teams you face, and there will continue to be so. Most "baggage" introduced is not "unobtainable" for the common Pokemon player. A Nintendo DS + the relevant DS/GBA Pokemon games is still cheaper than a new 2DS + OR or AS, and again, trading is a core gameplay feature alongside battling. Making Pokemon from prior generations useless, on top of the ease of breeding in Generation 6 (Destiny Knot, Hidden Ability changes, Ability Capsule, egg move inheritance changes, on it goes), trading is essentially the ability to get a version-exclusive Pokemon so you can spend 30 minutes breeding to get a new, competitive team member.

 

[Psynergy]

I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion that the pentagon requirement is useless. I mean why have the pentagon in the first place if they aren't using it for rulesets? While it's not a huge deal for keeping hacks out these days, I think it's nice to have a standard like this instead of just saying "if it's legitimately possible even through obscure means, go for it" since it's still true that many people won't be able to get their hands on some of this obscure stuff easily (or legitimately for that matter). That being said I won't deny some Pokemon would love access to some old stuff (Sing Double-Edge Glalie, Sheer Force Landorus, Extreme Speed Entei), though I'd rather them re-distribute those or add tutors to cut out the tedious process of RNG/transferring for them. I mean it worked for Seismic Toss Chansey.

In the end it doesn't put people at a significant disadvantage since there really aren't that many worthwhile ones and I'm not super bothered by the removal of the pentagon this next season (actually seems like fun), but I also don't think it's a change they should permanently adopt. Nor do I really expect them to, but we'll just have to wait and see on that one.

 

[Melon Vodka]

Is not possible use RNG on the emulator and pass mons in Black or White room and use Pokébank for pass them in ORAS?

 

[cant say]

Guys, I've had to delete and edit several posts here which were straight up discussing how to hack. That is not allowed on Smogon as a whole, let alone this subforum as it is specifically stated in our rules thread. Sure, the fact is that there are hackers out there and we can't deny that, but we still do not condone that behaviour and will not tolerate that information being provided here. Anyone else seen doing it will be infracted.

Use this thread for discussing the implications of removing the pentagon, what interesting Pokemon get new toys etc... NOT how to hack the coolest stuff!

 

[Simperheve]

No one who can go on BattleSpot can claim they only have access to Generation 6 Pokemon... Since you have the ability to use online services, you can trade with other people to get the Pokemon you want. Therefore, you can obtain Pokemon with exclusive sets all the way from Generation 3. Besides battling, trading for Pokemon you don't have is pretty much the point of the games and has been possible from day one.

That is a fair point, but that runs under the assumption that you have Pokemon that other people want available for trade. For example, i've struggled pretty badly to get myself a Zapdos for use in VGC (as I got stuck with Articuno in my copy of X) and despite having lots of decent breedables for trade, nobody wanted to trade with me. The only way I got one was because someone did a giveaway (which isn't really a realiable method of getting competitive Pokemon).

So yes, everyone has access to below Gen 6 Pokemon. But for some who don't have the competitive roster that others have, it's going to be an uphill struggle / nigh on impossible to get them.

 

[cant say]

I've been thinking about it since I started my Kanga giveaway, but since I enjoy RNGing more than battling (it's what I'm most well known for in the Wi-Fi sub-section), I wouldn't mind RNGing a bunch of old Pokemon w/ tutors and distributing them to those who need them for this season's Battle Spot, assuming it's okay with the Mods of course? Hopefully it would help even out the playing field a little bit, and keep unnecessary hacks off the BS ladder.

This would be sick! I'm sure we could easily compile a list of potential stuff on IRC sometime :)

To the comments above about how it's hard to trade for stuff if you don't have stuff to begin with, hold tight. I keep bringing this up but yes, our planned distribution of battle-ready Battle Spot Pokemon (including legendaries) should be starting next month (due to irl commitments of people involved), so hopefully that will help people get what they need legitmately!

 

[Simperheve]

This would be sick! I'm sure we could easily compile a list of potential stuff on IRC sometime :)

To the comments above about how it's hard to trade for stuff if you don't have stuff to begin with, hold tight. I keep bringing this up but yes, our planned distribution of battle-ready Battle Spot Pokemon (including legendaries) should be starting next month (due to irl commitments of people involved), so hopefully that will help people get what they need legitmately!

I was unaware of that. Sorry! I'll hold extremely tightly!

Outside of the accessibility issues, it'll be good to see how the older god of yore hold up against the current format. I don't think we'll see any Major shifts in viability, but we'll probably see some more variety in the top tiers (like a Landorus that doesn't give Milotic a free boost).

 

[Melon Vodka]

Both of stall and offense teams gain a power up. I guess the most is for offense teams with Sheer Force Landorus, Double Edge Altaria and Extremespeed Entei. Stall gain something like wish Chansey, Cotton guard banette (funny) and what? Soft boiled Clefable but It doesn't matter at all.

 

[DragonWhale]

Stall gains coldcune.

 

[Jibaku]

I'd imagine Sheer Cold Suicune would be a bigger detriment to stall given that the slow-paced playing field allows it to fire more sheer colds, and I don't think Skarmory enjoys eating Scalds. SC cune can potentially fit better in more offensive/balanced teams using the Rocky Helmet set, fulfilling its role as a general check to most offensive threats, and now it has additional utility as a stallbreaker.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Sheer Cold Suicune will be quite useful in doubles. I actually want to take a peak at the XY PGL stats and see how it's continued to do there. Cresselia's a popular Pokemon that can make its own win condition out of Calm Minding, which a viable Sheer Cold user rather completely scares off.

I can see why it was trending the other day, because I think it probably is the most significant re-added move across multiple formats. One of the reasons doubles moved away from Suicune was its lack of pressure. Now it has to be targeted down as soon as possible.

 

[cant say]

I'd imagine Sheer Cold Suicune would be a bigger detriment to stall given that the slow-paced playing field allows it to fire more sheer colds, and I don't think Skarmory enjoys eating Scalds. SC cune can potentially fit better in more offensive/balanced teams using the Rocky Helmet set, fulfilling its role as a general check to most offensive threats, and now it has additional utility as a stallbreaker.

I don't really get why you'd use a Rocky Helmet with Sheer Cold, since the chip damage you accumulate with the helmet is wasted when you just OHKO stuff with SC.. I'd have thought a ChestoRest or RestTalk (with Leftovers) set would work better with Sheer Cold.

 

[Pyritie]

I don't really get why you'd use a Rocky Helmet with Sheer Cold, since the chip damage you accumulate with the helmet is wasted when you just OHKO stuff with SC.. I'd have thought a ChestoRest or RestTalk (with Leftovers) set would work better with Sheer Cold.

You'd still be relying on a 30% accuracy move to hit in order to kill anything, whereas with the helmet suicune at least has some more utility

 

[DragonWhale]

I'd imagine Sheer Cold Suicune would be a bigger detriment to stall given that the slow-paced playing field allows it to fire more sheer colds, and I don't think Skarmory enjoys eating Scalds. SC cune can potentially fit better in more offensive/balanced teams using the Rocky Helmet set, fulfilling its role as a general check to most offensive threats, and now it has additional utility as a stallbreaker.

Yeah true. I was talking more about the kind of pokemon that are in certain team archetypes today, and Suicune is usually in more defensively oriented or balanced teams.