ORAS Doubles Viability Rankings [Nominations]

[xzern]

with help from and approved by Pwnemon

credit to Bummer for the sexy art

Now that ORAS is released, it's time to revamp these rankings!

Welcome to the official Doubles Viability Rankings topic. In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon in the doubles metagame into "tiers". You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in doubles and what tier they should fall under. The general idea of the topic is to rank each pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats. If you have a good case to add something to a tier, please provide good reasoning and evidence (although same goes for if you want to move something). Good luck and happy posting!​

S-Rank

Reserved for the top threats in the Doubles metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are able to perform multiple roles to tremendous effect, whilst having few to no flaws. Support Pokemon in this tier can easily create free turns for their teammates without creating clear openings for the opponent. Any flaws that these Pokemon have can be taken care of with little to no team support.

• 
  Kangaskhan (Mega)
  
• 
  Landorus-T

A-Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that function very well within the current Doubles metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are either able to perform multiple roles to great effect, or execute one extremely well. Support Pokemon in this tier can create free turns, but not as easily as those in the S Rank.The flaws that the Pokemon in this tier may have are usually mitigated by their positive traits, or with minimal team support.

A+ Rank:

• 
  Aegislash
  
• 
  Bisharp
  
• 
  Cresselia
  
• 
  Charizard (Mega-Y)
  
• 
  Diancie (Mega)
  
• 
  Heatran
• 
  Metagross (Mega)
• 
  Rotom-W
• 
  Thundurus
• 
  Togekiss

A Rank:

• 
  Amoonguss
• 
  Azumarill
  
• 
  Gengar (Mega)
• 
  Mawile (Mega)
  
• 
  Keldeo
  
• 
  Kyurem-Black
• 
  Hydreigon
  
• 
  Latios (Non-Mega)
  
• 
  Shaymin-Sky
• 
  Suicune
• 
  Politoed
  
• 
  Talonflame
• 
  Terrakion

A- Rank:

• 
  Breloom
• 
  Ferrothorn
  
• 
  Gyarados (Non-Mega)
  
• 
  Jirachi
  
• 
  Latias (Mega)
  
• 
  Ludicolo
• 
  Sylveon
• 
  Venusaur (Non-Mega)

B-Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that fit well in the Doubles metagame, but they have notable flaws that prevent them from filling their role to the fullest extent. The Pokemon in this tier are either predictable, require some team support to work to it's full potential, or are at disadvantageous match-ups against some common threats. The flaws that the Pokemon in this tier have are mostly mitigated by their positive traits.

B+ Rank:

• 
  Chandelure
• 
  Conkeldurr
  
• 
  Darkrai
• 
  Escavalier
  
• 
  Garchomp (Non-Mega)
  
• 
  Gardevoir (Mega)
  
• 
  Genesect
• 
  Gyarados (Mega)
  
• 
  Hitmontop
• 
  Mew
  
• 
  Rotom-H
• 
  Scizor (Mega)
  
• 
  Scrafty
• 
  Swampert (Mega)
  
• 
  Volcarona
• 
  Zapdos

B Rank:

• 
  Abomasnow (Mega)
  
• 
  Aerodactyl
  
• 
  Aromatisse
• 
  Camerupt (Mega)
  
• 
  Charizard (Mega-X)
  
• 
  Deoxys-Attack
• 
  Excadrill
  
• 
  Gallade (Mega)
  
• 
  Gothitelle
• 
  Jellicent
• 
  Kingdra
• 
  Landorus
  
• 
  Lucario (Mega)
  
• 
  Mamoswine
• 
  Manectric (Mega)
  
• 
  Raikou
  
• 
  Thundurus-Therian
• 
  Tyranitar (Non-Mega)
• 
  Slowbro
  
• 
  Venusaur (Mega)
  
• 
  Weavile

B- Rank:

• 
  Altaria (Mega)
  
• 
  Goodra
• 
  Gourgeist-S
• 
  Infernape
• 
  Lopunny (Mega)
  
• 
  Klefki
• 
  Milotic
• 
  Sableye (Non-Mega)
• 
  Sceptile (Mega)
  
• 
  Salamence

C-Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that can work okay within the Doubles metagame. However, they either have crippling flaws that prevent consistent performance or require much team support to work on most teams. Pokemon that have a few niches in the metagame but are mainly outclassed by higher-ranked Pokemon also belong here.

C+ Rank:

• 
  Ampharos (Mega)
• 
  Beedrill (Mega)
• 
  Blastoise (Mega)
• 
  Dragalge
• 
  Rhydon
  
• 
  Rhyperior
• 
  Hariyama
  
• 
  Heracross (Mega)
  
• 
  Sharpedo (Mega)
• 
  Staraptor
• 
  Tornadus
  
• 
  Pinsir (Mega)
  
• 
  Victini
• 
  Vivillon
  
• 
  Whimsicott

C Rank:

• 
  
  Blaziken (Mega & Non Mega)
• 
  Clefable
  
• 
  Clefairy (the user)
  
• 
  Dragonite
• 
  Entei
• 
  Greninja
• 
  Kyurem
• 
  Machamp
• 
  Medicham (Mega)
• 
  Meloetta
  
• 
  Meowstic-M
• 
  Pidgeot (Mega)
• 
  Porygon 2
• 
  Reuniclus
• 
  Slowking
• 
  Virizion

C- Rank:

• 
  Audino (Mega)
  
• 
  Dusclops
  
• 
  Gastrodon
  
• 
  Glalie (Mega)
  
• 
  Liepard
  
• 
  Manaphy
• 
  Steelix (Mega)
  
• 
  Trevenant
  
• 
  Zygarde

D-Rank

Many niche Pokemon can be squeezed into Doubles teams due to a certain move or ability (niche Wide Guard or Intimidate users, for example). Many Pokemon fit here, but none of them have a place in the metagame solid enough to have a special spot on the rankings.

• 
  Arcanine
• 
  Banette (Mega)
• 
  Celebi
• 
  Cloyster
• 
  Houndoom (Mega)
• 
  Musharna
  
• 
  Jumpluff
• 
  Noivern
• 
  Parasect
• 
  Rotom-Mow

Spinda-Rank

Pokemon that are only to be used by Doubles GODS (do not work when used by peasants)

Either this Pokemon is only used for a gimmick, such as PerishTrap and ShuckleSplit, they are ridiculously and 100% outclassed, such as Deoxys-A > Alakazam and Charizard-Y > Ninetales, or they're only good in a different metagame and don't deserve the usage they get at all.

Examples of E-rank pkmn

Alakazam
Blissey
Chansey
Espeon
Flygon
Hippowdon
Jolteon
Mr. Mime
Ninetales
Shuckle
Everything else.

Please no one-liners or useless comments. All posts are subject to moderation. Have Fun!

 

[Nabilla Benattia]

I think audio should move down to C+ Because it's almost fully outclassed by cress, having only typing to differentiate itself, and not having recovery. I think c+ shows that, while not unusable, it's mostly outclassed, the definition of C rank.

 

[DaAwesomeDude1]

Pinsir for C+/C. Pinsir is pretty outclassed by Mega Salamence and the only thing it has over mence is feint and the ability to OHKO T tar unboosted.

 

[qsns]

why is swampert in B rank? it's a fantastic mon, with a ridiculous attack stat of 150 (compared with ludicolo's 90 and kingdra's 95) and very solid 100/110/110 bulk. It has coverage to beat almost all the things that take little from the combination of STAB EQ + Rain boosted Waterfall. 70 is a good enough speed for a rain sweeper, as we see with ludi. it's also physical, a great pro considering most rain abusers are special.

i guess one of the things going against it is that it's completely rain dependent as opposed to something like ludicolo, but that shouldn't hold it back too much when you consider how well it performs under its preferred weather.

mega swampert for a-

 

[qwerts]

Mega audino needs lower, its not even outclassed its just a waste of space. Its only form of "relevant" recovery or damage is draining kiss n_n, it takes a mega slot that can be given to a much better mon. It's outclassed by cress, and if you're thinking of running a calm mind set, just run crobro, the god.

Mega audino for c rank

 

[Laga]

you have both rhyperior and raikou in both c and c+

and they should both be higher, including MILOTIC

Milotic should straight up jump to b+, so that's my nomination. It has a quite similar role to suicune, and basically does the same thing at the end of the day except it discourages intimidation instead of setting twind. It's bulk is almost as ridiculous as suicunes, and that pure water typing is so amazing atm.

I'd say Raikou and Rhyp fit in nicely at B-; situational mons that work extremely well (better than their competition) with the right synergetic team.


Edit: and Charizard in A- is a bit of a drop, don't you think. I'd say it would at least be A flat considering the fact that ttar is an overall much less threatening mon than zard, and that's in A.

 

[BLINGAS]

dragalge for c/c+

adaptability makes it hit pretty hard, stronger than goodra who plays a similar role as a special tank dragon or some shit

has less speed so it works better on TR teams and it has good typing and movepool so yea.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

I would nom rotom w for S rank. Atm its phys def set is so good for beating loads of big threats in the meta.

List of pokes it beats:

Salamence mega
landorus t
heatran
Metagross mega
politoed
togekiss
garchomp
scizor
mamoswine
Gyarados (non mega)
talonflame
suicune
tyranitar
swampert mega
Chandelure
rotom h

Pretty expansive list. Rotom w is a great glue for any team and a big asset.

 

[Bughouse]

Stop saying Rotom-W beats Mega Mence. I don't think that means what you think it means. Also, it's the single easiest redirected thing when it comes to Amoonguss, which most Mences will have as partner.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

Stop saying Rotom-W beats Mega Mence. I don't think that means what you think it means.

Ok im confused. Rotom w resists flying STAB, fire blast, hydro pump and is immune to eq. Granted it is hurt by draco but the physical set is more common. Salamence cant dd because WoW, cannot sub because t bolt breaks it. How does rotom w not beat salamence? And if salamence can have amoon as a partner, rotom w can have any fire type, flying type, taunter etc. as a partner.

 

[Bughouse]

congrats you now have to predict every sub with a tbolt, also many Mence run Dragon Claw, which will hurt Rotom-W plenty at +1.

And great you've most likely not OHKOed Amoonguss meaning it bought Mence 2 turns to Dragon Dance. Even if you Taunt it, Mence can still protect itself that next turn, while bringing in a new teammate (or it can frankly just Giga Drain the Rotom-W). Also, you're assuming Mence won't OHKO that teammate of yours while Amoonguss continues cockblocking Rotom-W. Or you can just Sub/Protect with Mence and Spore the Rotom-W, since again, few things OHKO Amoonguss.

 

[Nollan]

Can we put Diancie in A neutral? Its very good for countering Mence and has earth power for good coverage now (also lol the stats). Also Diamond Storm can really capitalize on all the physical threats in the metagame. This may seem strange but beating the majority of Salamence-Mega sets is imo a really big deal, given its very high ranking and the fact its very common atm. Diancie is also a very fast Fairy and outspeeds a lot of Dragons if its Mega, and can also beat Heatran in a lot of 1 v 1 situations (bar Flash Cannon in which case nvm). It seems very anti-meta to say the least.

Stop saying Rotom-W beats Mega Mence. I don't think that means what you think it means. Also, it's the single easiest redirected thing when it comes to Amoonguss, which most Mences will have as partner.

Also this^

Unless you are a card and run HP Ice (which may not even OHKO), you cannot consistently beat Mence, particularly Sub and special sets which are both quite viable options.

Azumarill for A+ (or A neutral at the least) as well, its Belly Drum set seems really good in the current metagame, and strong priority is a big thing with all the Tailwind running around.

Zapdos should also be higher (probably A-), it fits very well for Tailwind support since it can tank Salamence Returns and Dragon Claws pretty nicely.

I also like how Audino and Lopunny are in the same rank. Audino should probably go down aka listen to Qwertypops.

Hitmontop should be lower because Salamence, that's probably a legit reason (additionally the metagame is really aggressive so Hitmontop is really hurt due to its lackluster offensive presense; scrafty may also be similarly less effective tho it does have stuff like Taunt and Knock Off I suppose).

Overall it seems like a good start for where things are, so good job on that.

We may need an SS rank, though

 

[Stratos]

hi the reason i left audino in B- after xzern put it there (he showed me his preliminary rankings before posting them) was actually because full TR is better in this meta than in XY and normal Audino is a fairly good full TR setter as it's got the advantages of porygon2 (not being weak to dark or steel) while also being able to run Goggles and getting a much better support movepool (heal pulse, helping hand, encore....)

mega audino is shit tho

 

[shaian]

Agreeing with Diancie for A rank. It's such a potent Mon at all stages of the game, though I think it truly shines mid / late game, with Diamond Storm being such a powerful move, and the ease at which it can rack up boosts is incredible, as well as being immune to Thunder Wave and Will-o-Wisp, which most other options can't claim. Also being able to tackle Salamence (barring EQ or HPump variants), Thundurus, Latios, and a large portion of the other A and B rank mons effectively should keep it there. The only downsides to it are the rather disappointing bulk meaning it can't take super effective hits, and the incredibly shallow movepool.

 

[Froggyboy]

Camerupt up to B+

Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Ice / Substitute
- Earth Power
- Protect

Mega Camerupt is a huge threat in TR, with having a very low 20 speed that outpaces everything and everything it doesn't is either a LC Pokemon, or things 4x weak to Fire(Ferrothorn and Escavalier). With a Sheer Force boosted Heat Wave, anything that doesn't resist it isn't going to like it, and even non-bulky resists is are going to hate taking the hit. And according to the B-Rank description, Camerupt fits perfectly under B+, having notable weaknesses, but having its flaws be overshadowed by sheer power.

 

[Nollan]

Camerupt up to B+

Mega Camerupt is a huge threat in TR, with having a very low 20 speed that outpaces everything and everything it doesn't is either a LC Pokemon, or things 4x weak to Fire(Ferrothorn and Escavalier). With a Sheer Force boosted Heat Wave, anything that doesn't resist it isn't going to like it, and even non-bulky resists is are going to hate taking the hit. And according to the B-Rank description, Camerupt fits perfectly under B+, having notable weaknesses, but having its flaws be overshadowed by sheer force. #puns

Agreeing with this, though Eruption is a pretty good option as well (HP Ice for Salamence is good too I suppose; we should run HP Ice on everything just to troll it). Note while Eruption isn't Sheer Force boosted, it still hits harder than that of a Shuca Berrry Heatran (well known for its Trick Room Eruption spam), and having a ~124 BP spread move as an additional option is great. If you are looking Wide Guard weak it could run an absurdly powerful Fire Blast as well. I wouldn't push it much farther than B+ though, since costing your Mega is a considerable downside given Heatran can do similar things w/ no Mega slot.

 

[Froggyboy]

Agreeing with this, though Eruption is a pretty good option as well (HP Ice for Salamence is good too I suppose; we should run HP Ice on everything just to troll it). Note while Eruption isn't Sheer Force boosted, it still hits harder than that of a Shuca Berrry Heatran (well known for its Trick Room Eruption spam), and having a ~124 BP spread move as an additional option is great. If you are looking Wide Guard weak it could run an absurdly powerful Fire Blast as well. I wouldn't push it much farther than B+ though, since costing your Mega is a considerable downside given Heatran can do similar things w/ no Mega slot.

I actually run Eruption, but didn't think it was worth mentioning since I am new to the meta and the power of Sheer Force Heat Wave and full power Eruption are roughly similar.

 

[Speedholes]

I actually run Eruption, but didn't think it was worth mentioning since I am new to the meta and the power of Sheer Force Heat Wave and full power Eruption are roughly similar.

They are similar, but the extra power can be very useful. Something notable that full power Eruption achieves that Heat Wave does not is an OHKO on standard Amoonguss:

252+ SpA Camerupt Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Amoonguss: 438-516 (101.3 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Have to agree that Camerupt deserves to bumped up just that bit higher, being able to destroy Amoonguss and bulky Steels while cock-blocking Thundurus makes it an excellent asset to a TR team.

 

[Arcticblast]

Adaptability is released, so Dragalge for C rank. Hits like a truck but really only works on full TR. Haze + Draco Meteor is cute.

 

[xzern]

Hey guys, to establish some order, we're going to restrict the next week's nominations to placement in the S and A ranks. If the nomination you already posted was not relevant to the S or A ranks, they won't be taken into consideration for voting, but you can always re post them when the time comes to nominate pkmn for that respective rank.

 

[qsns]

Another nomination I'd like to make is Bisharp from A --> A+. It's one of the best mons in the metagame currently thanks to Mence's popularity, getting a boost from its Intimidate and works well next to it because it discourages Intimidate. Its middling speed is fixed up by the very powerful Sucker Punch and its offensive typing is great, especially in conjunction with Mega Salamence. Sash and Life Orb have different checks, making it difficult to handle.

 

[Electrolyte]

I'd really like to renominate Swampert for A tier. It really is an outstanding sweeper in the Rain; it requires some support but is not reliant on it. qsns made most of the main arguments.

I'd consider it better than Ludicolo for multiple reasons:
- More bulk
- More power
- Better typing (not as susceptible to priority)

Also, it pairs up magnificently with a lot of already Rain-suitable sweepers, and all of its weaknesses can not only be covered but also exploited to form powerful offensive cores.

 

[bp139]

Mamoswine: B --> A-

Mamoswine's ground and ice typing is a really good offensive typing. It can hit hard with Earthquake, and it's immune to electric type attacks, like Thunder Wave. Also, ice typing is really good for taking out a lot of dragon and ground pokemon. The biggest problems with it's typing is it takes super effective damage from water and grass type attacks.
Also, Mamoswine has access to a lot of different moves. It has earthquake which can hit a lot of things hard. Also, rock slide can take out a lot of threats like Talonflame and Charzard-Y, and can out-speed with choice scarf. It has access to ice STAB. The biggest problem with Mamoswine is to take out Landorus-T and Mega Salamence it has to use icicle crash instead of ice shard.

252 Atk Mamoswine Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 300-356 (101 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO


252 Atk Mamoswine Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 328-388 (110 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


-1 252 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 408-484 (106.8 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252 Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 196-232 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Qazoo306]

I'm nominating Sylveon for A-. It has a lot of positive traits such as a good typing and solid bulk. It also has one of the most spam-able spread moves in the game: Pixilate Hyper Voice. Besides having a huge base power and spread, Hyper Voice also penetrates subs. Sylveon's Hyper Voice OHKOes Mega Salamence 100% of the time when it's behind a sub. Another positive trait of it is that it can be used in Trick Room or Tail Wind. It has only 60 base speed which is good for TR, but with 120 ish EVs in speed, it can outpace positive natured 252 speed base 120s with tail wind. The reason I say A- is because it depends on an ally for some form of speed control for it to be used to it's fullest potential. I've used it well on both TR and TW teams and would recommend it.

 

[koolkranny]

I'm going to nominate Heatran for A-.

A lot of the up and coming mega evolutions are going to start running earth power (Diancie) or earthquake (Metagross) or just plain kill it (Gallade)
Heatran is going to have a hard time staying alive now that there are on average 2 soft counters and one hard counter per team. It is going to have to start relying on other team mates a little more to get the job done.

Thought exercise: 0 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 344-408 (93.4 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Versus: 252 SpA Mega Latios Hidden Power Ground vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 292-348 (79.3 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Edit: Oops, I always forget about spread. But, I didn't even mention Swampert and we don't need calcs to know how badly he kills.