Freedom to switch out, a relatively good speed tier and the ability to take on most of its checks and counters at once makes Life Orb Hawlucha viable along with SubSD Unburden.
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Other ORAS Egg/Tutor Moves + General Theorymon Thead
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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Calcs were done with 120 attacking stats:
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 120-142 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Glalie Freeze Dry vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 180-212 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So even with almost no investiment Freeze-Dry has its uses. Pretty interesting.
Even if not in OU, Synthesis's reliable recovery now gives Gourgeist a good advantage over Trev as a SubSeeder or annoyer/bulky status user. I'm most interested to see how some of the move combos work as well, like Knock Off being compatible with Belly Jet Azumarill.
Also, someone mentioned Leaf Blade being incompatible with Sucker Punch on Shiftry since it gets the former through Nuzleaf. Could someone explain to me how this is? Couldn't Shiftry get Leaf Blade, then evolve and learn Sucker Punch from a tutor, or remember it as an Egg Move (not familiar with how exactly it gets it).
Also, someone mentioned Leaf Blade being incompatible with Sucker Punch on Shiftry since it gets the former through Nuzleaf. Could someone explain to me how this is? Couldn't Shiftry get Leaf Blade, then evolve and learn Sucker Punch from a tutor, or remember it as an Egg Move (not familiar with how exactly it gets it).
Sucker Punch is a tutor from HGSS, aviable only for Shiftry, while Leaf Blade is aviable for Nuzleaf only, and only in ORAS, which makes the two moves incompatible.
Ah right, that. Well, between gunk shot and ice punch, physical greninja is suddenly looking a lot more appealing...
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's good now, but I will say that it's at the very least usable.
Looks like Klefki gets Magic Coat. Too bad it didn't get Stealth Rock as well, or it could have been Deoxys' perfect replacement as a suicide lead.
thundurus has actually always had thunder punch ever since bw2...
Physical Greninja will still be inferior to Mixed/Special due to lower BP moves outside of Gunk Shot, and even then Gunk Shot isn't very spammable.
On Florges, Synthesis won't make it viable in OU. Other clerics have better physical bulk and/or offensive presence and the existence Rain and Sand means it's not actually more reliable than WishTect.
On Florges, Synthesis won't make it viable in OU. Other clerics have better physical bulk and/or offensive presence and the existence Rain and Sand means it's not actually more reliable than WishTect.
I can't check the pastebin sites right now, so can anyone tell me if Serperior received anything new worth noting?
And what about Sceptile?
And what about Sceptile?
Serperior:
TutorSource1: Seed Bomb,
TutorSource2: Aqua Tail,Dragon Pulse,Iron Tail,
TutorSource3: Bind,Snore,Knock Off,Synthesis,Giga Drain,
TutorSource4: Gastro Acid,Worry Seed,Outrage,Snatch,Sleep Talk,
So nothing, basically.
Sceptile:
TutorSource1: Dual Chop,Seed Bomb,Low Kick,Thunder Punch,
TutorSource2: Dragon Pulse,Iron Tail,
TutorSource3: Snore,Synthesis,Giga Drain,Drain Punch,Focus Punch,
TutorSource4: Worry Seed,Endeavor,Outrage,Sleep Talk,
Nothing notable either.
It is.
Ice Punch/Gunk Shot means Greninja can be purely Physical now.
Pure physical will still be shit. The BP of all of its moves bar Gunk Shot are lower, and it isn't exactly spammable.
And now I'm repeating myself.
No it won't. It'll hit usual Greninja checks.
Destroys physically defensive Amoongus too.
Purely physical is easier to check. It still can't get past Chansey unless Eviolite's gone, Intimidators weaken it significantly, and you are now pretty much countered by Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, Hippowdon, and Mew (all of which Special beats 1v1 with the right coverage).
You don't need to even invest into Attack, since uninvested Timid Gunk Shot OHKOs Mega Gardevoir and AV Azumarill and beats Clefable since it can't 2HKO before getting 2HKO'd itself.
0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 398-468 (143.6 - 168.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 351-413 (101.7 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- Atk Life Orb Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 307-367 (77.9 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Life Orb Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 257-304 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 130-154 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO (Greninja is Poison for this calc)
0 SpA Clefable Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 101-119 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Greninja is Poison for this calc)
Uninvested Attack Mixed > Pure Physical
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Nope, doesn't learn any of those three moves.
The only viable physical attacks on Greninja are low kick and gunk shot. (Ignoring U-turn) Also Greninja sets should only run 1 of those two physical attacks on the same set with the rest of attacks being special
So Mixed Attacker, basically?
Greninja gets a great buff with Gunk Shot essentially allowing it to remove GK from its choice of coverage unless you really want to KO quag/gyara when coming in on it before toxic/dd. However going for Gunk you will have to extremely wary of a mon like mega metagross coming in. It can tank a Dpulse at full health and proceed to agility. Or mons like Excadrill that outspeed in certain conditions. Even something like mega manetric (tho it won't be used much) can intimidate having you hit for small dmg. Thats just some thoughts as to what you should be watching out for in the long run as people will try to counter this which will be extremely tough now as the coverage just got so much better. (honestly can't think of anything defensive that can sponge hits now.) Kyurem-B can still force it out along with other offensive mons but something defensive not really something besides pink blobs that are pure counters. Always will depend on the coverage moves but if you play smart and forgo icebeam for gunk shot it will be hard to wall.
I can actually see Pangoro moving up into UU, and having a small niche in OU. Having access to a Iron Fist boosted Focus Punch, Ice/Fire/Thunder Punch, and Knock Off to supplement Parting Shot give it an offensive edge enough to make it a dangerous switch in proposition for a range of OU Pokemon, and Drain Punch gives it more staying power. There literally isn't anything currently in OU that would want to switch in on it, between the prospect of taking a 180 STAB to the face, losing their item, or getting hit by Parting Shot and having a counter come in on them.
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