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ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)
- Thread starter Gary
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If we're gonna talk about small birds, look at the Tiny Bird Pokemon:Natu. He can do a lot more than Fletchling, carrying 40/45/45 defenses, with a decent 70 SpA and Spe. Who can set up DualScreens? Natu! Tailwind? NATU! He could be like the best support flying type, but Murkrow exists in this meta so too bad. Fletching can't happen until Murkrow and Natu are gone lol
You do realize fletchling is a rk right? Its main point in the post was to kill victreebel.
Pretty sure there are no way you can compare Natu and Fletch to eachother when they do completely different things haha. Natu is is pretty bad anyways, as most SR mons has a STAB to beat it, not to mention that two of the best pokemon in the tier will always beat it 1 on 1 (Murkrow and Buzz). Fletch can get ranked probably around C looking at how much of HO it can KO after SD+SR, but Natu cant really do much more than stop some stallmons, and even on stall (which is not even popular in FU lol) it get beat 1 on 1 by Spdef quill unless you run major offensive investment lol (4 Atk Quilladin Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Natu: 66-78 (23.2 - 27.4%) -- 58.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock vs 0 SpA Natu Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Quilladin: 84-98 (25.7 - 30%) -- 3.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock)
Way to kill my vibe lol, I can see the difference now, guise
Beheeeyem is going to be an absolute monster for stall to deal with, specs has like a literal single safe switch in with spdef klang, and even then it's 3hko'd by thunderbolt. It has a lot of options too, with nasty plot, trick room and potentially even both, definitely not looking forward to running into it.
Stall is already practically unviable in this metagame with prime stallbreakers such as CM Krow, Frax, Kingler, Simisage, Rat, and Viper running around. On top of that, most of the Pokemon found on stall rely so much on Eviolite for their bulk that any team carrying a Pokemon with Knock Off should have no problem muscling through them. Sure Bastiodon and Clops were a great boon to more defensive teams, but dedicated stall teams in general just seem really bad at the moment, and Beeheyem is practically the nail in the coffin. NP Beeheyem, while incredibly scary on paper, doesn't seem too amazing in practice considering how easy it is to check Beeheyem. Specs and offensive LO with like Recover 3 attacks or Sub definitely seem like the best options as a very dangerous hit and run Pokemon. NP would be a great stallbreaker if stall actually existed, but LO already rips bulkier teams apart anyway so I don't really see much of a need for a boosting move.
Or TR LO 3 attacks over sub/recover could be good, esp for beating non sucker krow
It may be just me, but Farfetch'd sounds like something that would fit into D rank. Looking at the definition of D rank, it seems Farfetch'd fits that description perfectly.
Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Forgot to Use metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.
Farfetch'd's niches over Fearow and Unfezant is Swords Dance, Defiant, and Knock Off, allowing it to threaten Prinplup with a boosted Leaf Blade, as well as cripple the various Eviolite walls in the tier, like Metang, Vullaby, Clefairy, Lairon, Gabite, etc. While its stats are complete booty, it can still hit for nice damage with a Band, which paired when Defiant can be pretty scary. Plus SubSDBP sets sound niche, but usable.
Overall, Farfetch'd is pretty fucking niche, but has enough value to merit a D ranking.
Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Forgot to Use metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.
Farfetch'd's niches over Fearow and Unfezant is Swords Dance, Defiant, and Knock Off, allowing it to threaten Prinplup with a boosted Leaf Blade, as well as cripple the various Eviolite walls in the tier, like Metang, Vullaby, Clefairy, Lairon, Gabite, etc. While its stats are complete booty, it can still hit for nice damage with a Band, which paired when Defiant can be pretty scary. Plus SubSDBP sets sound niche, but usable.
Overall, Farfetch'd is pretty fucking niche, but has enough value to merit a D ranking.
There
There is like no reason to use Furret when Persian does the same thing but is faster, has Tech fake out, Taunt and that NP set lol
Does someone have the usage list for this tier? I would love to see it! :3 I guess Simis, Fraxure, Krow, Cuno and Buzz are almost in every single team xD
I believe this is the newest one. Ofcourse some things have been banned/risen by usage but its relativly correct
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/fu-0.txt
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/fu-1500.txt
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/fu-1630.txt
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/fu-1760.txt
Wow! That's great! Thanks!
Also... That was kinda unexpected... X3 Swalot got a really nice usage! And it looks like Krow isn't getting enough love consideirng how high it is on viability! I think I'll get back to play FU! By the way... Where is the ladder for this one?
Also... That was kinda unexpected... X3 Swalot got a really nice usage! And it looks like Krow isn't getting enough love consideirng how high it is on viability! I think I'll get back to play FU! By the way... Where is the ladder for this one?
those stats are from only a few days when the ladder was still up at the beginning of february, these are the stats from the full month: http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-01/fu-1760.txt
BL5 incoming.
Would be nice to see a defensive/stall team on this, relying on Articuno + Walrein + Hail (Residual damage + Healing from Ice Body). Icy Rock becoming useful as item, perharps?
Also because most of the pokemons there dont deal the high damage at all, therefore causing defensive sets to work better.
Nice metagame BTW,even though I still think PU is already enough lol
Would be nice to see a defensive/stall team on this, relying on Articuno + Walrein + Hail (Residual damage + Healing from Ice Body). Icy Rock becoming useful as item, perharps?
Also because most of the pokemons there dont deal the high damage at all, therefore causing defensive sets to work better.
Nice metagame BTW,
The problem with this idea is how few defensive pokemon in this tier that are not fodder for SD rat or DD fraxure, two very prominent and extremly powerful wallbreakers which are so easy to fit on teams its stupid.
Rat isn't overly difficult to deal with once set up but Fraxure is another issue altogether, it picks and chooses its counters with coverage, almost all of them rely on eviolite to even stand a chance (The only ones I can even think of that dint rely on eviolite are wormadam-t, who has no recovery and does very little back, and wigglytuff), it has good bulk and can prevent status/phasing with Taunt. Honestly think it should be banned, because it's not like it's a slouch against offense or anything.
As Skankovich said, Raticate isn't overpowered since it does even have trouble to break some pokes and isn't that quick, taking into account that a lotof teams uses the simis and even if those can't easily get in, at least can revenge kill it! Fraxure on the other side, isn't just strong... It does have a nice typing (Dragons aren't exactly frequent on PU, and Fairies are pretty weak) and it can run some coverage or utility moves to break through a lot of playstyles... I would suspect it...
Okay after a few messages from people asking me and a certain member of my council asking me ever 5 minutes for this, I just wanted to make it clear that Sticky Web is by no means getting re tested anytime soon. Not only has the meta shifted even more into a bulky offensive meta which capatilizes on slow, bulky and powerful Pokemon, but we also got several additions to the tier in the form of Beheeyem and Chatot which both heavily abuse Sticky Web to a point where HO just loses every time to LO Chatot or Beheeyem teams. Fraxure is also still obviously a huge Pokemon at the moment, and while it was still very relevant back when Sticky Web was around, Sticky Web only makes Fraxure's DD set that much of an easier win button while SD Frax is also a ton more viable as it is able to rip into bulky offense/balance with ease. Then of course the Simis, Cate, and Cuno also get a huge boon and can just begin spamming there STABs like no tomorrow against teams that even pack Persians and E-Buzz. I just really hated the Sticky Web meta in a meta where hazard removing sucks ass and is easily punishable. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that here.
Fraxure on the other hand is deserving of another suspect, but the only issue is that our council/playerbase is dead at the moment. So I'd appreciate it if you guys would stop asking me about when I'm suspecting Fraxure, but it wont happen until I get a more solidified council or more people bother playing FU. Frax is a very controversial Pokemon, so I don't want to just make the decision myself (personally I don't think it's broken but others do so I can't speak for everyone.)
Fraxure on the other hand is deserving of another suspect, but the only issue is that our council/playerbase is dead at the moment. So I'd appreciate it if you guys would stop asking me about when I'm suspecting Fraxure, but it wont happen until I get a more solidified council or more people bother playing FU. Frax is a very controversial Pokemon, so I don't want to just make the decision myself (personally I don't think it's broken but others do so I can't speak for everyone.)
I would love to play more this one, but it should have a ladder, since just agreeing with people to do a FU battle on a PU ladder isn't exactly the best option IMO... Also, I haven't played FU in a while, but I would like to help you on anything you need! :3
Just out of curiousity, why is Magmar D rank?
I am just wondering because I see decent speed of 93, good spa and maybe acceptable atk and reasonable bulk when it has eviolith and having access to decent coverage with STAB, Focus Blast, Hidden Power and Psychic.
I am just wondering because I see decent speed of 93, good spa and maybe acceptable atk and reasonable bulk when it has eviolith and having access to decent coverage with STAB, Focus Blast, Hidden Power and Psychic.
I think it was some niche Belly drum set which got it ranked (?)
Anyways, Simisear does pretty much everything Magmar does but is faster, has Nasty plot, and (I cant believe I am saying this) a better ability in Blaze. Gluttony is also cool.
The bulk Magmar gets from eviolite is not that impressive when the entire meta carries coverage which hits fire types Super effectivly, and the few things which dont do it 2HKOes it anyways.
It's basically due to the other fire types like Simisear and heatmor outclassing it, the only unique thing it has is decent ish bulk with eviolite and fun but bad belly drum sets.
Beheeyem is an easy A+ Pokemon at the moment. It is by far the hardest hitting Pokemon in the tier thanks to its Analytic ability combined with its very strong 125 Special Attack stat. It has absolutely zero switch-ins; Psychic/T-Bolt/Signal Beam practically nails everything in the tier hard enough on the switch that giving it free switch-ins will lead to a KO. OTR is a really good cleaner, and although Analytic isn't nearly as useful in Trick Room, its still very strong enough to muscle through most offensive teams. LO 3 attacks with something like Sub or Recover in the last slot can rip apart bulkier teams while leveling anything found on offense. Beheeyem is also bulky enough to withstand most neutral attacks, so it's not like it has to rely so much on its raw firepower to get by. It could definitely warrant a spot in S-, but with Krow, Scarf Krook, Eviolite Zweilous, CB Jask, and Dark coverage being a pretty common filler in FU, Beheeyem is by no means difficult to check. A+ seems very fit for it.
Simipour will join the other monkeys in S-, but will move up to S. Specs is extremely powerful and has basically zero reliable switch-ins outside of Politoed. Scarf is a solid revenge killer that cleans up offensive teams pretty well and has great coverage options. Nasty Plot is an insanely good sweeper that can muscle through nearly everything and with Sub it can set up on a lot of its checks, such as Tortle and Prinplup. I personally thought it was S- even with Goat around, but now that it's gone, Pour just finds it so much easier to spam Water moves. If Simisear is S-, I don't really think Simipour should be ranked lower than it, and vice versa, as long as Rapidash is absent.
The return of Relicanth and Luxray doesn't do too much to the tier, but both are solid B+ Pokemon, and were before they left. Relicanth has a lot of common weaknesses, but it's a very strong hole puncher with recoilness Head Smash, and much like Gigalith it's a solid Custap Lead with a recoil Head Smash and Sturdy to act as sort of a pseudo spin blocker. It's also the BEST lead for rain teams, as it is able to set up SR and Rain Dance very reliably thanks to Sturdy. Luxray can run a very solid Choice Scarf set that revenge kills the monkeys/Krow and hits pretty damn hard and with Intimidate it can pivot into other Pokemon to better take hits. CB Intimidate is also pretty neat as well. Carbink is also going to B for its niche as a SR/weather lead on sun and being a very solid check to a few top tier threats such as Fraxure, Zweilous, Murkrow, Raticate, and Cuno to an extent.
Also Don Honchkrorleone has resigned from the council because he's quitting. RIP like all of my council members lmao.
Simipour will join the other monkeys in S-, but will move up to S. Specs is extremely powerful and has basically zero reliable switch-ins outside of Politoed. Scarf is a solid revenge killer that cleans up offensive teams pretty well and has great coverage options. Nasty Plot is an insanely good sweeper that can muscle through nearly everything and with Sub it can set up on a lot of its checks, such as Tortle and Prinplup. I personally thought it was S- even with Goat around, but now that it's gone, Pour just finds it so much easier to spam Water moves. If Simisear is S-, I don't really think Simipour should be ranked lower than it, and vice versa, as long as Rapidash is absent.
The return of Relicanth and Luxray doesn't do too much to the tier, but both are solid B+ Pokemon, and were before they left. Relicanth has a lot of common weaknesses, but it's a very strong hole puncher with recoilness Head Smash, and much like Gigalith it's a solid Custap Lead with a recoil Head Smash and Sturdy to act as sort of a pseudo spin blocker. It's also the BEST lead for rain teams, as it is able to set up SR and Rain Dance very reliably thanks to Sturdy. Luxray can run a very solid Choice Scarf set that revenge kills the monkeys/Krow and hits pretty damn hard and with Intimidate it can pivot into other Pokemon to better take hits. CB Intimidate is also pretty neat as well. Carbink is also going to B for its niche as a SR/weather lead on sun and being a very solid check to a few top tier threats such as Fraxure, Zweilous, Murkrow, Raticate, and Cuno to an extent.
Also Don Honchkrorleone has resigned from the council because he's quitting. RIP like all of my council members lmao.
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