ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

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Yay more S-ranks, I was really glad to see a drifblim post, its stupidly underrated but can do so much do to its abilities, moves and nice HP stat. I remember trying an Acrobatics +Phantom Force Unburden Set, I'll share it when I find it, it's pretty solid. Also can't forget it's ability to baton pass UNBURDEN, Stockpile and even CM.

Edit:
Drifblim @ Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash/Red Card
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Phantom Force
- Knock Off/Sucker Punch/Baton Pass
- Destiny Bond/Stockpile/Memento

Acrobatics is a STAB that works amazing w/ Unburden, Phantom Force is secondary STAB but not preferred since stuff can set up but bypasses Subs and Protect, Knock Off is knock off, Sucker Punch is (unnecessary) priority, Baton Pass works w/ Stockpile, otherwise useless, Destiny Bond is when you wanna take down stuff that's set up or when your low on HP, Stockpile for more Bulk and Baton Pass, Memento cripples any attacker.

EDIT 2:
Unburden isn't passed by Baton Pass
 
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Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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Here's a really neat Huntail set that I've been using on the ladder paired with a lot of offensive Pokemon which can really pressure the living fuck out of teams:


Huntail @ White Herb
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Waterfall
- Ice Beam
- Baton Pass

Most people tend to run either Sub BP or SS 3 attacks Huntail, but this set takes the middle ground and allows it to still be a threatening sweeper as well as an amazing team supporter. Without Ice Beam, Huntail is walled by basically every fucking Grass-type in the tier, such as Quilladen, Gourgeist, and especially Gogoat, as well as Fraxure and Zweilous. However when bulky Water-types come around Huntail can't do shit to touch them, so you can pass to shit like Fraxure, Simisage, or Electabuzz in order to fuck them up and continue on sweeping. Ice Beam is also really cool because like I said, it's good for things like Quil and Geist which could potentially give a teammate trouble, so you can either BP a boost to them and clean up or just allow them to sweep later.

Yeah it's pretty team dependent, and most of the time you'll want to use Sub for better teammate support or Sucker Punch so Huntail can sweep better, but on more fast paced offensive teams this set works wonders because it allows Huntail to still be a massive threat but it can also pass to other teammates depending on the opponent's team. I've just found very little opportunities to set up a Sub, SS, AND Baton Pass in a meta that's so fast paced as FU, so BP is like an eject button when Huntail needs to get out of certain situations.
 

Don Honchkrorleone

Happy Qwilfish the nightmare
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Still lacking a certain Pokemon on S...

Anyway, as a lot of people know, a certain youtuber known for his incommensurable skill for derailing the ladder who I shall not reveal (In Truth, I don't want to Blame anyone) is causing a massive infestation of, besides Psychic Wormadam-S, a stupidly bad set of one of the coolest Pokemon in the tier. So in effort to try to clean the ladder a bit here is a set of the poor victim I found surprisingly effective:


Grumpig @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Signal Beam
- Rest

The set that is littering the ladder is AV, and most of you may know why it sucks. But this set is actually effective. Working both as a mid-game sweeper and a solid stop to Articuno (except for Super Chatter's confusion hax), Grumpig is a great win condition for bulky offensive teams. Signal Beam is preferred to hit Dark-types such as the black birds (especially after a Roost on Murkrow's case), Krokorok and Zweilous, as well as Psychic-types such as opposing Grumpig, Duosion, Girafarig and more while hitting Metang for neutral damage; although Focus Blast can be used instead to murder Lairon, Scraggy and Gigalith, if hitting. The ChestoResto strategy is an excellent move for this Grumpig for two reason: The first and most obvious is the HP recovering and chance to beat Clefairy 1vs1 but the second is that after you consume your berry, you can give a big "F*ck You!" to Knock Off users. Some calcs to show how the consumed Chesto makes difference.

252 Atk Seviper Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 24 Def Grumpig: 162-192 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Simisage Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 24 Def Grumpig: 208-247 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Krokorok Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 24 Def Grumpig: 236-278 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

tl;dr: Stop using AV Grumpig (and Choiced Electabuzz but let's progress a step per time). Use this instead, or defensive since it's pretty cool. And use Grumpig more too.
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
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Why is slaking in C rank? This tier has Raticate, Linoone, Sawsbuck, fearow, and the new s rank Ursaring, is slaking really that viable with truant, especially since so many walls can still eat up things like a jolly CB return (eg Hippopotas, Clefairy)?
 
Why is slaking in C rank? This tier has Raticate, Linoone, Sawsbuck, fearow, and the new s rank Ursaring, is slaking really that viable with truant, especially since so many walls can still eat up things like a jolly CB return (eg Hippopotas, Clefairy)?
In fact, Slaking is a greater revengekiller than those as it has access to Retaliate and boasts a higher Attack stat. It can also be used with the gimmicky Yamask which Mummy's stuff. Slaking also has wide coverage and a huge attack stat and that makes it worthy of C rank. Lastly, it has better bulk than all of those.

fearow isn't comparable to slaking imo
 
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I used rain for a little while, and it fared decently, but I've found sun to be a hell of a lot better. Rain has some nice abusers in the likes of Golduck, Beartic, Huntail, Hydration Swanna, and a couple others. Purrloin and Volbeat are solid setters, and it's a hella fun playstyle. I suggest it for just some fun games where you can force wins really quickly. Rain completely Annihilates Offense, but it fares slightly worse against more defensively oriented teams, with SD Beartic being the only thing that consistently breaks through the likes of Spritzee, Quilladin, etc. I encourage you guys to try it out, it really is fun.
 
This set has been working quite well actually, besides getting destroyed by phazing (obviously). So welcome to the stage... Regigigas, The Lost Legend!


Lost Legend (Regigigas) @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Return
- Knock Off

The point of this set is to just stall as much as possible with Substitute and Drain Punch until Slow Start ends and then proceed to facewreck with Return. I previously had Earthquake instead of Knock Off in the fourth moveslot, but Knock Off provides really good utility if your team lacks it, and allows you to hit Ghost types with Levitate... I guess (honestly I've been walled by something like this before, but they switched out not knowing I couldn't hit them... hehe).
 

MZ

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In fact, Slaking is a greater revengekiller than those as it has access to Retaliate and boasts a higher Attack stat. It can also be used with the gimmicky Yamask which Mummy's stuff. Slaking also has wide coverage and a huge attack stat and that makes it worthy of C rank. Lastly, it has better bulk than all of those.

fearow isn't comparable to slaking imo
Except raticate has sucker and U-turn, fearow has flying STAB and U-turn, ursaring is either stronger or faster depending on the ability, sawsbuck has chlorophyll and SD, and Linoone has BD Espeed. I don't see a reason to use Slaking over Fearow, Raticate, or Ursaring at all when it's just setup fodder for fraxure, arbok, clefairy, gogoat, huntail, etc
 
I wanted to ask anyone who has tried rain offense how good it is. I am especially interested in golduck and Beartic fare.
Rd+3atk golduck is a solid stand alone rain abuser, as hydro 2hkos all the bulky shit in rain. Quilladin gets rekt by ice beam.

Sd beartic looks cool on paper but idk.
 
Except raticate has sucker and U-turn, fearow has flying STAB and U-turn, ursaring is either stronger or faster depending on the ability, sawsbuck has chlorophyll and SD, and Linoone has BD Espeed. I don't see a reason to use Slaking over Fearow, Raticate, or Ursaring at all when it's just setup fodder for fraxure, arbok, clefairy, gogoat, huntail, etc
His point is probably that a Retaliate from Slaking will most likely 1 shot everything that's not tanky/carrying an Eviolite, while the others may not. Besides that, it is certainly inferior.
 
Does anyone have a good scarfed sevip set? I'm trying to decide btw going special or mixed.
I think mixed/special is the way to go.

Seviper @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature/Timid
- Sludge Wave
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower
- Knock Off/Earthquake/Switcheroo

Seviper has awesome coverage options and a wide movepool and the mixed stats to abuse it. I mean you could go more physical with Earthquake/Poison Jab/Knock Off/Filler. Switcheroo is good seeing as how few viable trick users are around. Ive seen Furret trick me and Seviper and thats about it. Hes also viable with a Life Orb or EBelt set with Sucker punch but you loose infiltrator. Or try him on a trick room team with Maxed Atk and Special attack which is hilarious but scary as well.
 
His point is probably that a Retaliate from Slaking will most likely 1 shot everything that's not tanky/carrying an Eviolite, while the others may not. Besides that, it is certainly inferior.
But look at 1.) the opportunity cost that retaliate slaking brings and 2.) the prevalence of tanky things in the tier like metang, gourgeist-S, spritzee, etc. Retaliate is at its full power after a pokemon of yours is Ko-ed. Furthermore, there a quite a few tanky things that can take a retaliate in the tier, not to mention the amount of pokes that can come in, set up for free, and wreck the opposing side due to King Kong's shitty ability. Raticate, Ursaring, and frens honestly bring more wallbreaking potential or even (in especially Ursaring's case) sweeping potential as truant severely hampers Slaking's consistency desirable for wallbreaking.
 
With all this talk about slaking, I can safely put my thoughts down.

It's honestly pretty simple to me. Slaking sucks. Yes, it can shatter so many things in this tier with ease, however, the obvious opportunity cost of Truant makes his prowess fall far short of desirable for a normal type. In a tier littered with Normal-Types, why even pick this thing? Ursaring, Raticate, Fearow, Staravia, Linoone, Sawsbuck, and even Regigigas work much better than Slaking does. With so many potent set-up sweepers in the tier i.e. Fraxure, Clefairy, Gogoat, Simisear, Simipour, Simisage, Huntail, Swasbuck, Linoone, etc, the opportunity cost is severely too much in using this thing, that it's ends do not even come close to justifying the means. Not to mention that 2 of the most common things for purely defensive teams lay a hard stop to Slaking (Metang + Gourgeist-S), which hampers it's abilities to almost nothing. I know what I'm saying has been said before by almost everyone here, but I just really want to drill in that Slaking is like, really bad.

Btw, the argument, "You just don't use it right" is completely fucking irrelevant, as no matter how you play Slaking, there will be an opportunity cost.
 
the argument, "You just don't use it right" is completely fucking irrelevant, as no matter how you play Slaking, there will be an opportunity cost.
I would like like to point out that anything not broken has an opportunity cost and this kind of argument doesn't prove it sucks.
however this kind does:
Slaking is a mon that gets destroyed by almost every good pokemon in the tier and the ones it doesn't get destroyed by it still loses to. Is there a way to support slaking so that it can work effectively? yes, but why go through the trouble when you can use any of the other numerous normal types in the tier that completely outclass besides its brute power?

tl;dr: use better arguments and slaking sucks
 
I would like like to point out that anything not broken has an opportunity cost and this kind of argument doesn't prove it sucks.
however this kind does:
Slaking is a mon that gets destroyed by almost every good pokemon in the tier and the ones it doesn't get destroyed by it still loses to. Is there a way to support slaking so that it can work effectively? yes, but why go through the trouble when you can use any of the other numerous normal types in the tier that completely outclass besides its brute power?

tl;dr: use better arguments and slaking sucks
I believe the point Volbeatdown and others have been making is not only does slaking suck, but why use slaking over the other plethora of normal types in the tier? The question being considered is whether slaking is even worth C rank considering the huge opportunity cost and overall lack of utility outside of looking threatening from the outset. Is Slaking worth being used period? Compared to other C rank pokemon, slaking doesn't appear to even have a niche.
 
I would like like to point out that anything not broken has an opportunity cost and this kind of argument doesn't prove it sucks.
however this kind does:
Slaking is a mon that gets destroyed by almost every good pokemon in the tier and the ones it doesn't get destroyed by it still loses to. Is there a way to support slaking so that it can work effectively? yes, but why go through the trouble when you can use any of the other numerous normal types in the tier that completely outclass besides its brute power?

tl;dr: use better arguments and slaking sucks
I meant that Slaking's opp cost is waaay bigger than everything else in the tier.
 
I believe the point Volbeatdown and others have been making is not only does slaking suck, but why use slaking over the other plethora of normal types in the tier? The question being considered is whether slaking is even worth C rank considering the huge opportunity cost and overall lack of utility outside of looking threatening from the outset. Is Slaking worth being used period? Compared to other C rank pokemon, slaking doesn't appear to even have a niche.
that's exactly what I said and I believe slaking to be bidoof tier.
I meant that Slaking's opp cost is waaay bigger than everything else in the tier.
I know, I was just articulating you're point further.
 
It seems too gimmicky for me so I haven't put any thought into it. However, I'm interested in what you have in mind for a potential Perish Song set on Politoed.
Perish Song sets can be really annoying for the opponent; I can confirm it. It totally ruined my pass atempts with Ninjask, which are usually otherwise successful, but with Perish Song bypassing even Protect and getting passed down with Baton Pass, it's hella annoying!

As a bonus, Baton Pass is certainly not all Perish Song ruins! It'll ruin other sweepers, even behind subs, so it's a really good move overall. Now to fit them into a set, that's the tricky part; and unless you're running sash frog, he might not live to curse some advanced sweeping :(
 
I suppose it could be annoying in that aspect but I don't really see much Baton Pass users in this tier. Is it even reliable enough to win matches consistently with it? I don't think Perish Song is worth a slot in Politoed's set despite its shallow movepool.
 
I suppose it could be annoying in that aspect but I don't really see much Baton Pass users in this tier. Is it even reliable enough to win matches consistently with it? I don't think Perish Song is worth a slot in Politoed's set despite its shallow movepool.
If it was that reliable, it would be used more frequently. So yeah, I was just giving out on which cases Perish Song can be good. In the end, it's basically a "force-a-switch" move that forces both users to switch out eventually; since it'll also force you out, unless you die after using it, it'll give the opponent a free turn as well, effectively nullifying your advantage. Otherwise, it'll give you a free turn to setup or do whatever you want regardless, as they either switch or die (not if they die, but then they'll lose a Pokemon '-').
 
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